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Iverron posted:Oh my god open offices are the worst why does anyone willingly do this? If we do the faceboop we can become the faceboop. But no faceboop pay.
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Jul 21, 2017 03:51
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Iverron posted:Oh my god open offices are the worst why does anyone willingly do this? They're cheaper. That's the only reason for them.
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Jul 21, 2017 04:07
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They encourage collaboration! Also cheaper, but you can't sell the idea that way, so you tack on the collaboration bit.
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Jul 21, 2017 04:08
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Ghost of Reagan Past posted:They encourage collaboration! Ding ding ding because what we sure as hell don't need to do when developing is talk a lot.
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Jul 21, 2017 04:14
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Given other mitigating factors like, say, carpet, I've found that the noise of an open office isn't much of a problem when pair programming. If you're not working alone, then rather than needing aural isolation to concentrate, you just need to be able to hear the person you're sitting next to.
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Jul 21, 2017 04:17
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I find open offices to mostly be disruptive, but mostly because people are by my desk every 10 minutes to ask me about something. I've tried getting people to use skype, but then if I don't answer in 2 minutes, they come over anyway. Not to mention our skype stores no history, so if it crashes, I lost what they said.
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Jul 21, 2017 06:36
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Today I applied for an electronic Travel Authorization to enter Canada this summer. It included drop downs for job domain and occupation. Apparently I am in Business, working as an Office equipment operator.
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Jul 21, 2017 09:52
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Ha, I did that last month and went with something like "generic office worker"
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Jul 21, 2017 17:22
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Got an app with a complicated input data scheme including encrypted audio files. Spent a few hours today trying to figure out why the audio wasn't playing. Finally figured it out. The audio was playing, but it's just silence to make a short delay between segments.
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Jul 21, 2017 18:50
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I like my open office because I'm really friendly with the people who sit near me and the whole office is non-sales or marketing so it's pretty relaxed generally. 
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Jul 22, 2017 19:09
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I loved my old open office because it was filled with adults who understood how to have a conversation with the person standing next to them without yelling at the top of their lungs, and who were conscientious about having an impact on other people. I hate the open office at my current place because there are about 5 dudes, out of over 100 who work in it, who never seem to have mastered the idea of an indoor voice or concern for other people. These guys literally yell when speaking, even to someone standing right next to them, so loud that you can hear it clearly one floor down. Talking to them doesn't help - they will pout and go quiet for a minute or two but then immediately ramp back up. It took suggesting we would resign over it, but eventually myself and a number of others were moved into a quieter space and things have been substantially better.
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Jul 22, 2017 22:03
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There are a couple people like that where I work but the spend the majority of their time at their desks and don't have constant conversations. When they do though, boy, time to go get coffee or something because you sure as poo poo aren't concentrating on anything. There was a project manager who was in my row that has a "I'm trying to speak to an auditorium without a microphone" volume as his default speaking voice. He rarely talked about work, and almost made me quit. After one day, when he told the same 30-minute story about his broken toilet I'm not even slightly exaggerating to five separate people, I told my boss in no uncertain terms that I was miserable and thinking about leaving because of this guy specifically. I was not the only one who had complained about him - every single person even remotely near him had made similar complaints over the weeks. He was moved to a small office on the other side of the building and life was suddenly and measurably better for the whole team.
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Jul 23, 2017 00:10
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Che Delilas posted:There are a couple people like that where I work but the spend the majority of their time at their desks and don't have constant conversations. When they do though, boy, time to go get coffee or something because you sure as poo poo aren't concentrating on anything. There used to be a guy at my office who sat directly behind me. He also talked very loud and had a very bad habit of eating loudly at his desk. While he was eating at his desk, he would turn around in the middle of the aisle and chew his food inches from your ear and look over your shoulder at your screen.
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Jul 23, 2017 00:38
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geeves posted:chew his food inches from your ear and look over your shoulder at your screen. Pretty sure that qualifies as a justifiable homicide in any reasonable jurisdiction.
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Jul 23, 2017 00:47
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hailthefish posted:Pretty sure that qualifies as a justifiable homicide in any reasonable jurisdiction. At least a tazing. loving animals.
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Jul 23, 2017 01:08
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Lotta folks ITT in need of an Office Linebacker.
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Jul 23, 2017 01:17
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Office Linebacker seems like an outtake from a Chappelle show skit. Also even if someone's being loud and noisy in an open floorplan, the usual places I've seen work out seemed to be ok when everyone just has headphones on and that's accepted as a signal to not bother the person because they're actually concentrating.
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Jul 23, 2017 03:35
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How do you deal with CHAOTIC programmers? I had to work with this guy for a while. He's very knowledgable about a lot of the more complex programming principles, frameworks, all that. And overall he's not a bad programmer either, quite experienced. But he's always running around dealing with 5 different tasks at once, like I ask him a question, he's halfway through explaining it, someone walks by and he just drops the explanation and runs after that other person because he has something to discuss with them. Or he comes up with a good idea, I get assigned to actually code it, and just when I'm about done he decides the implementation should be entirely different and I can start over. Or he's in a hurry, we need to make a bugfix release, he's got a solution, but puts the line on the wrong side of an if or for bracket, making the situation even worse. I'm a very ordered person and others have told me I'll just need to learn to deal with people like that but it annoys me SO MUCH.
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Jul 23, 2017 08:54
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Carbon dioxide posted:How do you deal with CHAOTIC programmers? Carbon dioxide posted:But he's always running around dealing with 5 different tasks at once, like I ask him a question, he's halfway through explaining it, someone walks by and he just drops the explanation and runs after that other person because he has something to discuss with them. For context: If this happens with my current lead, he'll usually tell the interloper something like "give me five minutes; I can swing by your office to talk about it". The only exceptions he makes are for calls from his family or clients. Carbon dioxide posted:Or he comes up with a good idea, I get assigned to actually code it, and just when I'm about done he decides the implementation should be entirely different and I can start over. Carbon dioxide posted:Or he's in a hurry, we need to make a bug-fix release, he's got a solution, but puts the line on the wrong side of an if or for bracket, making the situation even worse. Test your code; even if only manually. If I wanted to make A Thing about it, I'd revert the change and apply the fix in separate commits. People DO NOT like getting their changes reverted (seems silly but ). If I was feeling saucy, maybe send an email to the internal project list indicating that changes should be tested before being pushed.Carbon dioxide posted:I'm a very ordered person and others have told me I'll just need to learn to deal with people like that but it annoys me SO MUCH.
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Jul 23, 2017 10:56
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Carbon dioxide posted:Or he's in a hurry, we need to make a bugfix release, he's got a solution, but puts the line on the wrong side of an if or for bracket, making the situation even worse. Despite it building and passing tests and a buddy check? I would do this all the time too, if there were no buddy checks. I'm a really bad coder unless folks hold me accountable.
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Jul 23, 2017 11:59
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Well anyway he's gone now and I'm moving to another job (yay!) soon.
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Jul 23, 2017 12:02
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If your senior person is frequently interrupted by a lot of people who need some sort of feedback then you can have two-ish options. Either make them manage their situation better, which is hard, or spread their responsibilities out to other people so the senior person don't have their finger in too many pies, which is probably easier. Bring it up at your next retrospective or similar team meeting, ideally in a non-confrontational how-shall-our-team-fix-this sort of way. "[Architect of Chaos] owns a lot of the code we've all been working in the last few [units of development time] and it's seemed to me like that they've been really oversubscribed so we're often blocked waiting on a response from them. Has that been your experience as well? Can we delegate some of that responsibility so they can be more focused?" or somesuch. It's pretty likely that the chaotic person is in fact equally annoyed that they've got way too many things on their plate and don't have any time to focus on getting whatever stuff they really care about done. Either way, nothing will change if no one says anything. On submitting rubbish code, I think the only real solution is to try to be pretty strict about testing and reviews and generally add friction to the process to avoid people saying "it's a trivial one-liner, I'll just push it straight to master". Even a small, simple change should go through a PR or similar patch submission, kicking off automatic builds and tests, and going through a code review. Some people will invariably find that friction very annoying, but it's a lot less annoying than the same people occasionally submitting utter rubbish that impacts everyone (and I sympathize, I'm sloppy under stress and I've broken the build a few times with trivial and obviously correct code pushed straight to master until I learned that I should never trust myself). If it's a hotfix for some severe issue then the fix submission should ideally include a new test case specifically for the severe issue in question. I know some teams really aren't keen on spending time on automation, reviews or anything not-features, but it's the biggest and most important thing you can do to avoid poor code getting submitted, and for code quality in general. If your team is majority "just code, screw tools" types then you're going to have a bad time in a lot of ways. Sorry.
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Jul 23, 2017 12:02
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necrobobsledder posted:Also even if someone's being loud and noisy in an open floorplan, the usual places I've seen work out seemed to be ok when everyone just has headphones on and that's accepted as a signal to not bother the person because they're actually concentrating. My experience is that people take headphones as a sign that you cannot hear and will touch you shoulder, arm or hand or wavo in your face. In no place yet will I be left alone.
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Jul 23, 2017 16:21
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Keetron posted:My experience is that people take headphones as a sign that you cannot hear and will touch you shoulder, arm or hand or wavo in your face. In no place yet will I be left alone. The people I am complaining about speak so loudly that you can hear them clearly through isolating headphones with music cranked. And they will touch you. That is not good.
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Jul 23, 2017 20:31
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The noise within an open office is not limited to just audio, visual noise is rampant in these layouts and gently caress whoever came up with that poo poo heap.
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Jul 23, 2017 20:32
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Keetron posted:My experience is that people take headphones as a sign that you cannot hear and will touch you shoulder, arm or hand or wavo in your face. In no place yet will I be left alone. The gently caress? I'll start punching your arm if you don't respond when I talk to you. gently caress you. this discussion makes me glad I work from home
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Jul 23, 2017 21:08
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Headphones are a sign of submission. You've given up on having a sensible work environment. You've given up on having considerate coworkers. Now you will deafen yourself for the opportunity to do the job you were hired for.
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Jul 23, 2017 21:33
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Carbon dioxide posted:How do you deal with CHAOTIC programmers? There are some "hero" programmers who respond to being over-utilized by trying to do everything, instead of pushing back. They'll work incredibly late hours, they'll fix (and create) half the bugs in the product, they'll be management's go-to whipping boy when some problem comes up. Unfortunately, this looks like productivity to upper management, so they'll usually end up in a senior/lead role far before they're ready. This will start causing a bunch of problems both for the hero and the team: 1. Doing poo poo quickly causes more problems later. Customers are never really happy with "oh, sure, the feature only half works, but on the flip side, it only took a day to implement." 2. Too much pressure can lead to shoddy development practices. It's very easy get stuck in a pattern of only testing happy paths under release pressure/ not writing unit tests at all / not refactoring appropriately. Bonus: shoddy development practices produce more crises, so more opportunity to be a hero! 3. Adding a bunch of poorly tested, quickly designed code rots the codebase. Regressions occur even though unit tests pass and nobody knows why. 4. Everyone who works like this burns out eventually, it''s only a matter of time. Addressing bugs caused by technical debt becomes a full-time job, and the people who get promoted and get raises are going to be the people who don't cause problems, produce well-tested code that can be maintained by anyone, and can easily switch onto sexy new projects without being missed too badly by the old project - the hero will get stuck maintaining the legacy product and resent that the people who were chill and don't cause problems get bigger raises/promotions, and burn out through perceived lack of recognition of their "sacrifice." Don't be a hero, and if at all possible, try to work in a place that has practices that mitigate these problems (e.g. competent leadership, good code review practices, good unit test practices.) However - the case could be that the dude isn't overworked, and is just a dipshit. In which case, gently caress that guy.
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Jul 23, 2017 22:55
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Gildiss posted:The noise within an open office is not limited to just audio, visual noise is rampant in these layouts and gently caress whoever came up with that poo poo heap.
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Jul 24, 2017 04:48
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Popoi posted:The top quarter of our (pretty short) cube walls are glass on 3 sides, so everyone who walks by creates multiple reflections moving in different directions at right about my eyeline. Sounds like a good excuse to put a bunch of cheat sheets and photos on your cube walls.
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Jul 24, 2017 06:03
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geeves posted:Sounds like a good excuse to put a bunch of cheat sheets and photos on your cube walls. This but black construction paper. Or if you want it to look real bad, butcher paper.
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Jul 24, 2017 06:10
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Y'all got some lovely coworkers. I've been in a bullpen since I started at this place a little over a year ago and it's good as gently caress.
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Jul 24, 2017 14:08
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Or, and my guess is this is more likely because goons, they're the kind of people who can only work in perfect silence and take that deficiency out on coworkers.
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Jul 24, 2017 14:32
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Blinkz0rz posted:Or, and my guess is this is more likely because goons, they're the kind of people who can only work in perfect silence and take that deficiency out on coworkers. It's you. You are the goon.
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Jul 24, 2017 14:57
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They laid off a bunch of project managers while I was on vacation and the last person who knows how our development and deployment platform works announced that he's leaving. Is there an emoticon that's a combination of  and  ?
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Jul 24, 2017 15:00
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Pollyanna posted:They laid off a bunch of project managers while I was on vacation and the last person who knows how our development and deployment platform works announced that he's leaving. Is there an emoticon that's a combination of If not, there should be  also jfc you must work at the same place a friend of mine does (you don't). They're an analytics company that's had almost all their devs quit, one by one, as the company makes the transition from Chill Startup to Actual Business (and makes it incredibly poorly.Blinkz0rz posted:Or, and my guess is this is more likely because goons, they're the kind of people who can only work in perfect silence and take that deficiency out on coworkers. Probably a significant helping of that too 
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Jul 24, 2017 15:09
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Pollyanna posted:They laid off a bunch of project managers while I was on vacation and the last person who knows how our development and deployment platform works announced that he's leaving. Is there an emoticon that's a combination of It probably looks similar to 
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Jul 24, 2017 16:05
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leper khan posted:It probably looks similar to Way ahead of you
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Jul 24, 2017 16:37
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WRT open office talk, open offices suck but mainly because I'm the big loud distraction for others 
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Jul 24, 2017 16:47
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We don't have an open office, but I'm in a cube block off of a busy hallway. It's not bad for me, since I have a double cube at the back of the block. But it sucks for the two guys at the front of the block since their backs are to the hallways and their screens are plainly visible to anyone that's walking by. edit: I forgot which thread I was posting in. I am not a real dev, I am a systems admin with dev aspirations. My extra cube is a workbench. The Fool fucked around with this message at 18:47 on Jul 24, 2017 |
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Jul 24, 2017 18:44
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