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Over There posted:Just finished path C today. What a journey. Major Spoilers: The decision to sacrifice might be the biggest payoff in the history of video games, but that payoff depends on an individual player’s perspective of what the game is actually asking them to do. The pods just defied their programming in order to give 2B, 9S, and A2 a chance to live a happy life. They were facing certain defeat at the hands of the defense program until support arrived from other players. The game makes it clear that the player shouldn’t consider themselves a hero if they do decide to make the sacrifice, but the choice is given anyways. In real life, any sacrifices that you (or society in general) make for future generations may not be appreciated. Future generations may end up being jerks. They may be ungrateful. They may not care at all about your sacrifice. Your decision may ultimately be considered unnecessary or all for show. In the end, there is no way to tell if your sacrifices matter at all. It all comes down to one important question: Do you think games are silly little things?
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Jul 23, 2017 00:55
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some guy on the bus posted:But they don't actually need it. If someone actually needed my help, perhaps I would think about it. I had all my data backed up onto a external hard drive anyway. I recommend doing that if you want to delete your data. Insert yourself in the nearest dumpster, garbage person.
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Jul 23, 2017 00:58
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Over There posted:Don't forget to press L2 when you're hacking. I was poo poo at it till I realized that option. some guy on the bus posted:Also don't forget to use the right control stick to aim. I went through the whole play through without knowing that. Hexenritter posted:Yeah I was uncomfortable with 9S's combat style at first too, though it's an understandable concession to highlight that he's a Scanner model not a Battle model. I mean, I'm not dying or anything. Just miss being a whirlwind of death. Dabir posted:You can't get those chests with floaty robots. In 9S's hands their float is significantly worse than his jump. Sax Solo posted:With cypress stick and some critical up he tears through poo poo pretty fast. also lol at the iron pipe
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Jul 23, 2017 02:06
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I thought it was way easier to kill things with 9S's hacking than 2B's regular combat, so it really made that part of the story about 9S not being a combat model fall a bit flat for me.
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Jul 23, 2017 02:20
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some guy on the bus posted:But they don't actually need it. If someone actually needed my help, perhaps I would think about it. I had all my data backed up onto a external hard drive anyway. I recommend doing that if you want to delete your data. People get a bit grumpy over this but I deleted it and then restored my save
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Jul 23, 2017 02:49
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Saagonsa posted:Nah, that's actually super lame and misses the point hard. The Dark Id posted:Insert yourself in the nearest dumpster, garbage person. I love the idea behind it but I'm not going to delete 40 hours of game data. You guys can't make me.
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Jul 23, 2017 02:58
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some guy on the bus posted:I love the idea behind it but I'm not going to delete 40 hours of game data. You guys can't make me. Then just don't delete the loving save, Ananias.
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Jul 23, 2017 03:04
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some guy on the bus posted:I love the idea behind it but I'm not going to delete 40 hours of game data. You guys can't make me. Don't do it because you do or don't want to. Do it because it's the right thing to do. 
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Jul 23, 2017 03:29
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CJacobs posted:Don't do it because you do or don't want to. Do it because it's the right thing to do. doing it is the only choice for a virtuous person
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Jul 23, 2017 04:27
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some guy on the bus posted:I love the idea behind it but I'm not going to delete 40 hours of game data. You guys can't make me.  I had approx 50+ hours and I collected most of the weapons for everyone along w/upgrades. Then I bought all the trophies because not going to farm 10+ hrs for pure waters on PS4 just for fun.
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Jul 23, 2017 05:02
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I think I would have been more willing to delete my save if the premise behind it wasn't a blatant lie, but I guess it HAD to be in order for people to be able to finish that game and get the 'full' experience behind the credits. Unless it's suppose to be a callback to how lies like 'humans are alive on the moon' were used to motivate androids and others, and how we can also find meaning through a similar lie and- oh my god I cracked the case
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Jul 23, 2017 05:08
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What lie would that be?
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Jul 23, 2017 06:05
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Dabir posted:What lie would that be? I assume that it's pretty much certain people don't need others' saves to activate help because in that case getting the ending would've been impossible at launch and the chances to beat it would run out eventually. I almost really wanna believe in Zinkraptor's idea that it's intentional. It gives you something pleasant to believe in, and even if it's not true if you can believe it it gives that choice meaning Nina fucked around with this message at 07:20 on Jul 23, 2017 |
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Jul 23, 2017 07:15
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Unless they don't get "used up" and were initially seeded by developers...
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Jul 23, 2017 07:50
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Endgame Spoilers: At launch, the dev team helped the first wave of players reach the ending. It is unclear what will happen once the supply of player-submitted save files are exhausted. I do like the theory that the decision is entirely useless, but we may never know the truth. Good News!: Famitsu recently interviewed the core dev team behind Automata: Yosuke Saito (producer), Takahisa Taura (game designer), Keiiche Okabe (composer), Asahiko Yoshida (character designer), and best boy Yoko Taro. Everyone is willing participate in a sequel, and they even seem mildly optimistic about the chances of Square Enix greenlighting a NieR 1 remake. When asked about plans for the tenth anniversary of NieR’s release (April 22, 2020), Yoko Taro suggested they should release a “rather crappy social game” and transitioned to talking about his involvement with SINoALICE. Edit: I’m calling it now. NieR 1 remake and NieR 3 will happen. Know Such Peace fucked around with this message at 08:01 on Jul 23, 2017 |
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Jul 23, 2017 07:58
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Raxivace posted:I thought it was way easier to kill things with 9S's hacking than 2B's regular combat, so it really made that part of the story about 9S not being a combat model fall a bit flat for me. Considering how badly 9S tears through enemies even when 2B isn't around, by the end of the game that line came across less like truth and more like command trying to keep him in check. He's a "high-end model" that is so advanced another model is always assigned to murder him when he uncovers the big conspiracy. With that in mind, I think it makes sense that 9S would quickly develop combat experience after getting a taste for blood. At least that's how I rationalized it. There's really not another way to explain how strong 9S seems to be by the end of the game except maybe that seeing 2B die unlocked his inner Caim.
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Jul 23, 2017 08:07
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Tatumje posted:Endgame Spoilers: I recall reports of it repeating save files if you die enough in the credits sequence, it absolutely is not actually deleting them cause the average player is taking far more than a single hit on a credits run so they would've long run out by now.
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Jul 23, 2017 08:12
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Nina posted:I assume that it's pretty much certain people don't need others' saves to activate help because in that case getting the ending would've been impossible at launch and the chances to beat it would run out eventually. I actually spent a bunch of time after finishing the game thinking about this and the choice itself. No one knows exactly how it works, but there's a very good chance your personal save sacrifice isn't really needed. No one is going to get to that screen and see a message that says "Sorry, no one deleted their save for you, get hosed." Either the game reuses save data, or there's some fallback developer dummy save data that helps them. But does that actually matter? I'd say it doesn't. If you choose to sacrifice your data, you will help someone. They'll see your message of encouragement and your username and your little ship will be there shooting bullets. Isn't that helping them? It doesn't make a difference that someone else would have helped them if you chose no. Like if a stranger at a crowded park asks you take a picture of them. If you say no, someone else will take the picture. The person asking doesn't really need your specific, particular help. So what? If you say yes and take the picture, you're loving helping them. The fact that someone else would have helped them if you chose not to does not invalidate your personal act of helping them. I chose yes and was extremely satisfied with the ending.
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Jul 23, 2017 08:24
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Hexenritter posted:Yeah I was uncomfortable with 9S's combat style at first too, though it's an understandable concession to highlight that he's a Scanner model not a Battle model. I literally went through the entirety of the game without knowing that you could lock on hacking, I thought the point of the dual stick shooter dealie was "learn to aim and dodge". Welp. Dabir posted:You can't get those chests with floaty robots. In 9S's hands their float is significantly worse than his jump. I got them with the floaty robots, because "terrible floaty jump" is still better than "undocumented jump extension combos that I didn't know existed and thus never used". This game gets -1 for not having any of this poo poo documented anywhere but +1 for being able to steelball through it without knowing about it, I guess.
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Jul 23, 2017 09:47
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Ursine Catastrophe posted:
Yeah, memorising not only the sequence but the timing of those ridiculous jump extenders is a pain.
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Jul 23, 2017 09:54
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KamikazePotato posted:Considering how badly 9S tears through enemies even when 2B isn't around, by the end of the game that line came across less like truth and more like command trying to keep him in check. He's a "high-end model" that is so advanced another model is always assigned to murder him when he uncovers the big conspiracy. With that in mind, I think it makes sense that 9S would quickly develop combat experience after getting a taste for blood. I think it's mentioned somewhere that he modified himself to be able to fight, Scanners aren't supposed to even be able to carry weapons. You notice that when he was on his own, he was assigned a task that specifically involved not killing his target?
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Jul 23, 2017 12:28
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Over There posted:Don't forget to press L2 when you're hacking. I was poo poo at it till I realized that option. ... ... ... I've beaten this game twice now (and am currently working on getting 100% on that second save) and I never knew that you could lock on. I just manually aimed the entire time.
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Jul 23, 2017 18:32
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The lock on is disabled on hard difficulty, this also counts for the hacking minigame. But if you've ever played a dual-joystick shooter before in your life not locking on will probably actually help you since it doesn't lead the shots for moving targets, and sometimes its target selection is questionable.
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Jul 23, 2017 19:02
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Yeah, when they mentioned it I was hoping it was a shield or dodge or something.
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Jul 23, 2017 19:57
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Over There posted:Just finished path C today. What a journey. Why hadn't you saved for two hours? That's not the game's fault.
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Jul 23, 2017 20:54
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Regarding the ending discussion: One of the game's main themes is understanding that the only meaning that anything has is the meaning you ascribe to it. Nothing matters unless you let it. Sacrificing your data doesn't really do anything; that's true. But if you find meaning in the gesture, that's real.
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Jul 23, 2017 20:58
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When I got to E I wasn't done with everything else, so I said no. Also, I find it strange they ask you to delete everything after the pod risked its own life to ensure everything wouldn't be deleted.
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Jul 23, 2017 21:44
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Momomo posted:When I got to E I wasn't done with everything else, so I said no. Also, I find it strange they ask you to delete everything after the pod risked its own life to ensure everything wouldn't be deleted. Actually yeah I think it would've been a better twist to call it off after you say yes anyway. Because the whole point of the ending was "NO, these characters DON'T have to die this time unlike the first game". It becomes thematically dissonant to keep the twist for the player but to remove it from the context of the story entirely
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Jul 23, 2017 22:08
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This time around, it isn’t a guilt trip. It is entirely up to the player whether or not they feel the sacrifice is worthwhile. The good guys already got their happily ever after ending. It would be kind of lame if they offered the option and didn’t follow through with deleting everything.
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Jul 23, 2017 22:19
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Tatumje posted:This time around, it isn’t a guilt trip. Oh yeah? Now it's the players that give you the guilt trip. Not the game.  Ojetor posted:Like if a stranger at a crowded park asks you take a picture of them. If you say no, someone else will take the picture. The person asking doesn't really need your specific, particular help. So what? If you say yes and take the picture, you're loving helping them. The fact that someone else would have helped them if you chose not to does not invalidate your personal act of helping them. Yes, but if something is already set up so that a picture will be taken of them in the same exact way, I'm not going to feel the need to destroy my camera in order to take a picture. I don't honestly understand doing it unless you never intend to use the camera again or already plan to get a new one. There's already a mounted camera in place. It's a steep price to pay to ignore it just to take the same picture. I already thought the ending was great just from getting the messages and the help before I knew a data sacrifice was involved. Didn't everyone? The sacrificing data thing feels a bit unnecessary. some bust on that guy fucked around with this message at 22:42 on Jul 23, 2017 |
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Jul 23, 2017 22:27
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Tatumje posted:This time around, it isn’t a guilt trip. It is entirely up to the player whether or not they feel the sacrifice is worthwhile. The good guys already got their happily ever after ending. I feel very little for that ending because it feels it's only there because Nier deleted your save. It doesn't fit the themes at that point at all that the player has to sacrifice "themselves" to help someone else. It could've been done in a much more elegant way like hell dropping you into another player's game and adding a menu option to help others with that segment at will
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Jul 23, 2017 22:35
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Going to have to agree with that. It wasn't the point of the ending, so it's not like it ruined it, but having it there really did just feel like it was done out of obligation. If they wanted us to delete the save, they could've changed it so that deleting all the information about everything that happened is what allows them to continue living. The burdens of the past with Yorha and the machines don't affect 2B and 9S anymore, so they can forge a new world on their own. Instead it just feels like they're continuing the mission they just got out of.
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Jul 23, 2017 22:41
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It's the mirror of the first lines of the game. 2B wants to kill her creators and be free, you're literally killing the creators as credits to leave them beyond human control. Including you. I think it fits swimmingly.
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Jul 23, 2017 22:47
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...! posted:Why hadn't you saved for two hours? That's not the game's fault. Which is why it was a D'oh! moment
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Jul 24, 2017 03:56
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Haha what the gently caress. I didnt know you could lock on while hacking and spent close to 50 hours of this game doing it manually. Does the game actually inform you that you can lock on? I also didn't know that you could aim with the other stick for a long time but at least i figured that one out eventually.
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Jul 24, 2017 05:18
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rio posted:Haha what the gently caress. I didnt know you could lock on while hacking and spent close to 50 hours of this game doing it manually. Does the game actually inform you that you can lock on? I also didn't know that you could aim with the other stick for a long time but at least i figured that one out eventually. It doesn't tell you that you can lock on in hacking, no. Although honestly I don't feel it's that helpful. Dual stick shooting works just as fine if not better.
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Jul 24, 2017 06:20
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From watching people stream the game on Twitch, there is a mind-boggling number of people who never realize that the right stick is used to aim in the shooting segments.
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Jul 24, 2017 07:50
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Tarezax posted:From watching people stream the game on Twitch, there is a mind-boggling number of people who never realize that the right stick is used to aim in the shooting segments. This kinda blows my mind a little bit because iirc the very first pilot segment, literally the introduction to the game, tells you that you can aim with rs while shooting, and hacking is basically the same thing as pilot mode except all you can do is shoot. How do you not connect those dots? 
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Jul 24, 2017 10:56
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Nobody ever reads anything on their screens. And if they do they forget it 3 seconds later. This goes double for tutorial sections.
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Jul 24, 2017 11:36
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That's ridiculous! Hacking a computer is a completely different thing to flying an airframe!
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Jul 24, 2017 11:42
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