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Gaede is getting it done. Halfway through rank 6 now. I can taste victory ( or insanity, one of the two ). The longer range torps make it possible to stealth-dunk BBs and cruisers, your guns have OK speed, power, and fire chance- and your hydro helps for ducking those torps and bullying other DDs into the dirt. That HP pool is a nice crutch to lean on, too. So many DDs have no clue that the Geade has hydro, including other Geades. They see you burning in on them, blapping away, and they turtle up in their smoke.  Neighbors is the only map I don't like the Gaede on, because you are absolutely not contesting B. You're visible from the moon and you will be shot to poo poo. You can send in those torps tho. NerdyMcNerdNerd fucked around with this message at 20:50 on Jul 23, 2017 |
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Jul 23, 2017 20:38
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The only way to stop WoWS from being a boring, passive snipefest would be to have a hard limit of 2-3 battleships per team. Note: this is never happening.
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Jul 23, 2017 22:12
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I actually prefer it when there are more battleships than any other class, because then I can farm all of the damages from potatoes. Though a hard cap of 3 destroyers per team and 2 per division would be greatly helpful for how spotting mechanics work and is in no way my attempt to reduce destroyer competition.
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Jul 23, 2017 22:20
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Heartcatch posted:I actually prefer it when there are more battleships than any other class, because then I can farm all of the damages from potatoes. Part of me thinks destroyers are fine, especially since they "fixed" stealth firing, and the other feels, at certain moments (like when there are 5 per team) they are still broken. I know Wargaming is trying to have a rock-paper-scissors thing going on, but it sometimes seems like: The best counter for battleships = destroyers The best counter for cruisers = destroyers The best counter for destroyers = destroyers
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Jul 23, 2017 22:38
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ZombieLenin posted:Part of me thinks destroyers are fine, especially since they "fixed" stealth firing, and the other feels, at certain moments (like when there are 5 per team) they are still broken.
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Jul 23, 2017 22:47
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I think the biggest problem with T10 is the time to kill can be so low. I play a lot of battleships and it's pretty obvious that the higher in tier you go the slower you have to go in general because being out in front = death. In my Tirpitz or Bismarck I feel pretty comfortable going out in front a bit because other T8 battleships just don't have the power and accuracy to really punish me if I have to turn away in the middle of a fight (plus it's so much fun going in with all my secondaries blazing). I think if WG just lowered BB pen and damage a bit you'd solve a lot of these problems, and it would have the knock on effect of making DDs and Cruisers more survivable.
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Jul 23, 2017 22:48
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ZombieLenin posted:The best counter for battleships = destroyers Not really, although I would call them the premier support class (even over cruisers, which is a little silly). DDs are the least RNG-based class and the most prediction/reaction based, with the notable exception of smokeless khab that plays more similarly to a cruiser (if that cruiser could get away with open water kite fighting). Playing cruisers mainly, my biggest fear are BBs, coincidentally the most RNG-based class. Getting citadeled while angled and/or evading can be beyond frustrating. Against a DD, you merely have to predict better than they do and use your tools properly. The best counter to all three of them is an equal or higher tier CV that isn't poo poo at the game. Mauzeraut fucked around with this message at 23:05 on Jul 23, 2017 |
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Jul 23, 2017 23:01
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Hazdoc posted:DDs counter CAs? ...DDs are a better counter to CAs than BBs? Ok. I am hyperbolizing a bit. It is certainly the case that, in my opinion the best counter for destroyers is other destroyers. That's two out of three ship classes (not counting carriers for this discussion) are best countered by destroyers; and while I mostly play cruisers, they aren't the "main" counter for anything--except maybe aircraft for American cruisers.
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Jul 23, 2017 23:27
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ZombieLenin posted:I am hyperbolizing a bit. It is certainly the case that, in my opinion the best counter for destroyers is other destroyers. Personally, I see it as BBs best countering BBs, BBs best countering CAs, and DDs countering DDs. While DDs sort of can "counter" BBs, its not by torpedoes as people seem to imagine, but more in that they win games in a way the BB is not suited to stop (capping, supporting the team with spots/smoke). In a situation where it is BB vs DD and the BB is on the caps, the DD will be hard pressed to force the BB off, assuming he has a couple of brain cells and knows how to regularly change course to make torping him nigh-impossible.
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Jul 24, 2017 00:10
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Always feels good to get accused of using mods when I accomplish the impossible task of hitting a Nurenburg in the citadel (i.e. anywhere on the ship) when he was traveling in a straight line. Oh and there was a mountain between us, because of course shells travel in laser-straight lines without any arc. He gave me the standard retard-spiel of "all the long time players know about the mods" which means he's not a long time player and has never actually seen an aim-assist mod. Put me in a better mood to hear his pathetic rant. Especially since 2 games prior to that I had one of our DDs go off alone to the other cap to die, and the other said "kills are more important than caps." We somehow lost that one...
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Jul 24, 2017 01:07
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It hurts me to give up damage farming to go for a cap, but winning is probably the most important thing.
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Jul 24, 2017 01:14
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I dislike the delay now in between sinking someone and having the sink audio effect play A whole lot!
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Jul 24, 2017 02:16
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orange juche posted:At the same time map pings happen for the enemy team highlighting your position and the game announces "shoot here, assholes!" On that note, I kind of wish they would institute a cap on the number of times a player can ping a square in a certain time frame. It gets old when you get that one teammate pinging a grid 30x in 15 seconds because they're angry people aren't following their spaztastic advice. Vengarr posted:The only way to stop WoWS from being a boring, passive snipefest would be to have a hard limit of 2-3 battleships per team. I would love this, because the best times I've had as a BB player is when I get to farm cruiser kills because so many cruiser players at T6 and above still have a hard time grasping that presenting broadsides to a battleship ends poorly no matter how much DPS they are pumping out. Handsome Ralph fucked around with this message at 03:03 on Jul 24, 2017 |
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Jul 24, 2017 02:56
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I'd like to see on the test server them redoing cruiser citadels or something to reduce them so huge and easy to hit. Especially on higher tier cruisers, as now battleships are getting more accurate, and cruisers are only getting large.
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Jul 24, 2017 04:08
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Pacra posted:I dislike the delay now in between sinking someone and having the sink audio effect play  Also the 'your base is being captured' sound playing very quietly or not at all.
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Jul 24, 2017 06:59
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A few days ago I said that German DDs are bad. That wasn't a good opinion. German DDs are loving good. The Z-52 is a monster in the right hands.
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Jul 24, 2017 08:19
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Z-52 is pretty good, yeah. The line doesn't really come into its own until Maas, though. Or Z-23 if you don't like Maas.
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Jul 24, 2017 08:30
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Heartcatch posted:Z-52 is pretty good, yeah. The line doesn't really come into its own until Maas, though. Or Z-23 if you don't like Maas. This is reassuring to hear as I'm currently struggling with the Z23. It seems to be doing much better since I've upgraded hull, guns and torps though.
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Jul 24, 2017 08:37
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I'm also glad to hear good things about the Maas because I'm nearly finished the T4 (V-101?) and while its not bad, its a bit "meh" - the torps are about 5kn too slow. I have heard multiple reports of the T22 (ie T5) being a horror show though? At this stage I just want to reach the Maas because I sold my Shiratsuyu after the nerf and I'm trying to figure out the best T7 DD now. it's probably the Leningrad.
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Jul 24, 2017 08:52
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I've been divisioning with a guy with the Z52 and, oh boy, he didn't lose a single 1vs1 against other DDs. The Maass isn't bad. I hated the Gaede with a passion. Best T7 DD, for random battles at least, is the Akatsuki, then Leningrad if you have a good captain for it, then Maass, Blyskawica, Mahan, Kiev, Shiratsuyu. Cippalippus fucked around with this message at 09:13 on Jul 24, 2017 |
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Jul 24, 2017 09:10
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kaesarsosei posted:I'm also glad to hear good things about the Maas because I'm nearly finished the T4 (V-101?) and while its not bad, its a bit "meh" - the torps are about 5kn too slow. I have heard multiple reports of the T22 (ie T5) being a horror show though? At this stage I just want to reach the Maas because I sold my Shiratsuyu after the nerf and I'm trying to figure out the best T7 DD now. it's probably the Leningrad. Its gimmick is 360 degree turrets with equal highest ROF in tier, but the guns fitted to them are gash, and it needs CE and camo just to get a couple hundred meters stealth torp window. The T-22 is very bad.
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Jul 24, 2017 09:19
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Mahan is the best not-Blyskawica tier 7 destroyer.  Maas is decent, because it is the first truly hybrid IJN/USN destroyer in the line. The detection range is poor, but the rate of fire is almost-USN and the torpedoes are almost IJN with reduced detection signature, but so is turret rotation. The one issue that German destroyers suffer from is that they're largely somewhat weak hybrids without any defining feature besides hydroacoustic search and that doesn't get good until Z-23 which is eclipsed by Lo Yang's. Coupled with poor smoke, wide turning circle, and fat hulls that take extra damage from AP, this really detracts from playing them in general. Finally, generally poor FCS range before tier 10 is also a minor hurt. Until Z-23, they lack the ability to really pigeonhole other destroyers effectively, though once again you'll have to note that Z-52 still lacks as much general versatility as Gearing, but it does get incredible hydro, strong AP versus other destroyers and relatively fast torpedo reload to compensate. Krogort posted:This is reassuring to hear as I'm currently struggling with the Z23. One major mistake with people playing Z-23 is being too aggressive, especially if you are using the 150mms. While a destroyer, it basically occupies the space between Kiev and Benson insofar as to where you should be on the field while other destroyers are still alive. While you can play it aggressively to hunt down other DDs, it has a lot of trouble disengaging due to the aforementioned turning circle. Try playing as a second line skirmisher and letting stealthier destroyers take the lead and play as a fire support/torpedoboat and smoke nullifier as your main role if you have the opportunity.
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Jul 24, 2017 09:24
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Eh, the Mahan is just fine. The Akatsuki does everything: good guns, albeit with a slow traverse and reload; excellent torps, with good arcs and reload; decently fast and stealthy.
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Jul 24, 2017 09:35
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Two consecutive Yugomo games with the Torp Reload booster:  23 Torp hits, 23 floods.
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Jul 24, 2017 12:16
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Sperglord Actual posted:
That explains that loss where I don't remember hearing any base warning at all and since I was busy playing hide and seek as a destroyer vs a cruiser and Russian destroyer, I wasn't exactly paying attention map / markers. HFX fucked around with this message at 14:15 on Jul 24, 2017 |
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Jul 24, 2017 14:07
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I recently got a Shima, and have about 20 games under my belt with her. I'd have really loved to see how she was pre-nerf because she's a drat great torpedo boat as is. Even the slow rear end 20km torps provide a lot of great late hits (thanks to stupid passive baby BB drivers). Thinking of getting the torpedo speed boost perk on my captain to pair with the 20km torps. 16km torps @ 67kts seems pretty delicious
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Jul 24, 2017 14:19
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CitizenKain posted:I'd like to see on the test server them redoing cruiser citadels or something to reduce them so huge and easy to hit. Especially on higher tier cruisers, as now battleships are getting more accurate, and cruisers are only getting large. Reworking cits so you're less likely to get absolutely destroyed by a single salvo would be nice. It seems like overkill, given how easy it is to hit cruisers already. I think they could give more cruisers a heal, too, just make it take longer than the battleship heal or something. They could use their mobility and concealment to disengage, heal a little bit, and come back. I wouldn't give it to every cruiser, though. A Kutuzov with smoke and a heal would be the worst thing to deal with.
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Jul 24, 2017 14:39
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Stanley Pain posted:I recently got a Shima, and have about 20 games under my belt with her. I'd have really loved to see how she was pre-nerf because she's a drat great torpedo boat as is. Even the slow rear end 20km torps provide a lot of great late hits (thanks to stupid passive baby BB drivers). Thinking of getting the torpedo speed boost perk on my captain to pair with the 20km torps. 16km torps @ 67kts seems pretty delicious Get the 12km ones instead, the 20km torps are spotted from a ludicrous 2.5km, the 12km are down to 1.7 which is a lot more manageable.
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Jul 24, 2017 14:43
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Stanley Pain posted:I recently got a Shima, and have about 20 games under my belt with her. I'd have really loved to see how she was pre-nerf because she's a drat great torpedo boat as is. https://youtu.be/b0LmOsMXOsc
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Jul 24, 2017 14:49
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Dat old school detection range and speed 
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Jul 24, 2017 15:26
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On the Detailed XP report, what are Ships bonuses? Do some ships have inbuilt XP modifiers? If so is there a list anywhere, or are any known to be particularly high?
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Jul 24, 2017 15:30
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Darkrenown posted:On the Detailed XP report, what are Ships bonuses? Do some ships have inbuilt XP modifiers? If so is there a list anywhere, or are any known to be particularly high? The Sims has a small one, but I am not sure which others do.
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Jul 24, 2017 15:38
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Polyakov posted:Get the 12km ones instead, the 20km torps are spotted from a ludicrous 2.5km, the 12km are down to 1.7 which is a lot more manageable. 12km torps with Torpedo Acceleration would be interesting. That gives you 9.6km torps with 72kn speed, but I don't take TA since I use the same captain on my Shinonome which only has 8km torps and Kamikaze which has 7km.
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Jul 24, 2017 16:06
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Ranked definitely is a grind. I've gotten up to Rank 9.0, but it's about now that I start to lose interest. Tier VI is especially grindy because none of the ships are particularly fun. I do okay in the Arizona, but as someone who leans toward DD and CA play, the 35 second reload isn't the best. Maybe I'll make it to rank 5 before the season ends, but I doubt I'll make rank 1. NerdyMcNerdNerd posted:Reworking cits so you're less likely to get absolutely destroyed by a single salvo would be nice. It seems like overkill, given how easy it is to hit cruisers already. I think they could give more cruisers a heal, too, just make it take longer than the battleship heal or something. They could use their mobility and concealment to disengage, heal a little bit, and come back. I wouldn't give it to every cruiser, though. A Kutuzov with smoke and a heal would be the worst thing to deal with. I think Tier VIII cruisers except the Kutuzov should get them, at least. Tier VIII sees a lot of Tier X fights and few things are more frustrating that being the only New Orleans in a sea of Tier X ships. I got my brother-in-law to start playing warships over the weekend and I forgot how clownish Tiers II and III can be. I think he got hooked when he torpedoed a Hosho in his Watatake. Though my favorite moment was trolling some pubbie into team killing me and getting the pink flag of freedom. The guy started out like a lot of new players do, just firing his guns at whatever, shelling some village. Then he shoots me. Okay, no worries, it's tier II. Then he does it again, and again. Finally, annoyed, I fire back at him a couple of times. He starts raging in chat about me being gay and how much he hates "fags," etc. etc. No one can ever accuse this greybeard of being a SJW, but I find it annoying when people go straight to "fag" or "n--ger" as their choice of insult. I trolled him until he got two fires going on me, which I then didn't repair. I told him his pink flag was WG's reward for supporting Pride and he just lost it. I should have captured the chat box but I forgot because greybeard. I also forgot how fun the St. Louis can be. People accuse it of being overpowered, but I think it's just strong for its tier. If memory serves, it's okay to invite RL family and friends to goon discord, but we're responsible if they're spaztoids. Is that still accurate?
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Jul 24, 2017 16:54
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kaesarsosei posted:12km torps with Torpedo Acceleration would be interesting. That gives you 9.6km torps with 72kn speed, but I don't take TA since I use the same captain on my Shinonome which only has 8km torps and Kamikaze which has 7km. Those would probably work really well for those moments where you're going in for a very close stealth drop on someone. Doing a 1/3 , 1/3 , 1/3 spread means your target would probably eat 3 torps+. You lose out a fair bit on the spray and pray carpet torping though.
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Jul 24, 2017 17:20
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MoraleHazard posted:Tier VIII sees a lot of Tier X fights and few things are more frustrating that being the only New Orleans in a sea of Tier X ships. I hardly ever play my New Orleans anymore, just for this reason. Part of the issue is the NO is so frustrating given how often Tier VIII seems to be uptiered these days, that I imagine the rest of the Line must be just as frustrating--despite what I read. quote:also forgot how fun the St. Louis can be. People accuse it of being overpowered, but I think it's just strong for its tier. I was going to comment on the French cruiser line, but I just realized you are talking about the St. Louis and not the Saint-Louis. If memory serves, it's okay to invite RL family and friends to goon discord, but we're responsible if they're spaztoids. Is that still accurate? [/quote] Yeah, since the stupid French
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Jul 24, 2017 17:34
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Stanley Pain posted:Those would probably work really well for those moments where you're going in for a very close stealth drop on someone. Doing a 1/3 , 1/3 , 1/3 spread means your target would probably eat 3 torps+. You lose out a fair bit on the spray and pray carpet torping though. It's a build I sometimes use on my shima or yugumo, but I have the luxury of 2 19 point captains so I can easily switch. All in all I would say stick with the 12km torps unless you are very confident with the ship just because it's a lot more consistent and less ikely to get you wiped by radar, if you want to try the second playstyle you can just use the F3 torpedo and see if it works for you.
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Jul 24, 2017 17:36
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MoraleHazard posted:Tier VIII sees a lot of Tier X fights and few things are more frustrating that being the only New Orleans in a sea of Tier X ships. Currently having all 4, being the only Hipper, Chapayev, or Mogami in a sea of tier X ships is just as frustrating. Tier 8 cruisers in general are the least competitive tier/class combo that can be seen in a tier X battle.
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Jul 24, 2017 17:50
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NTRabbit posted:Currently having all 4, being the only Hipper, Chapayev, or Mogami in a sea of tier X ships is just as frustrating. Tier 8 cruisers in general are the least competitive tier/class combo that can be seen in a tier X battle. Yeah, I was using NO as an example, but all four are very tough. I would give all 4 a heal and the Kutuzov the choice between smoke or heal, but not both.
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Jul 24, 2017 20:27
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MoraleHazard posted:Yeah, I was using NO as an example, but all four are very tough. I would give all 4 a heal and the Kutuzov the choice between smoke or heal, but not both. Wouldn't Kutuzov without smoke just be a Chapayev? I'd give it a heal and either smoke or radar but not both.
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Jul 24, 2017 20:29
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