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Apprehension over the concept of single payer is starting to fall away and the powers-that-be are getting nervous. Quick, to the libertarian bat cave! We need some pro-unaffordable healthcare articles stat! Spending a lot on healthcare is the American way! 
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Jul 21, 2017 16:40
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TROIKA CURES GREEK posted:
If you don't have anything actually intelligent, insightful, or useful to say you probably shouldn't write three posts in a row.
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Jul 21, 2017 16:41
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TROIKA CURES GREEK posted:-a Republican, talking about abortion It is via 'Product Substitution.' [Back-Alley Abortion] substitutes [Abortion]. Harm-minimization dictates legal, accessible abortion. Where's the harm-minimization argument for reducing access to healthcare?
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Jul 21, 2017 19:22
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Accretionist posted:It is via 'Product Substitution.' [Back-Alley Abortion] substitutes [Abortion]. If everyone's dead nobody will suffer
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Jul 21, 2017 19:35
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https://twitter.com/BraddJaffy/status/888516504592961536
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Jul 21, 2017 22:55
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Jul 21, 2017 23:05
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the bills loving gutted
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Jul 21, 2017 23:05
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Nice.
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Jul 21, 2017 23:07
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Shimrra Jamaane posted:Nice. I like the part about rolling over unused Medical subsidies into the states general funds. (was removed last draft) allowing a state to just deny everyone coverage and steal the funding to build football stadiums. Seems legit.
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Jul 21, 2017 23:12
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I'm a bit confused. If they had actually got to the vote when they wanted to, would they have had to wait for these determinations? Or would the bill have to go back to the senate if these determinations came later? I'm sure McConnell would have just overruled the parliamentarian in the end, rendering it all moot (and opening the door to single payer with 50 votes!)
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Jul 22, 2017 00:05
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McConnell is going to tread carefully around the parliamentarian for the same reason he's preserving the legislative filibuster: because once the safeguards that stop the senate from doing stuff are gone, they're not coming back, and they empower the party that wants to say no and block new programs a hell of a lot more than they empower the party that wants to do stuff and expand government
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Jul 22, 2017 00:20
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I wonder what kind of mandate can pass the Byrd rule. Without it, that's basically game over for any kind of replacement.
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Jul 22, 2017 01:28
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The parliamentarian could be overruled (by Pence) or replaced with someone more amenable (by McConnell) or possibly just ignored because the actual text describing the role of the parliamentarian in the reconciliation process is pretty weak. But none of that will happen since there's no real fire to actually pass BCRA anymore and McConnell really doesn't want to set the precedent that 50 votes in the Senate can pass absolutely anything once a year.
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Jul 22, 2017 01:36
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Correct me if I'm wrong but it seems like the parliamentarian's ruling provides a convenient excuse for McConnell, in that he can blame obstructionist Democrats for the bills failure instead of his own party (if they hadn't already fractured over it a few days ago). Would a full repeal of the ACA in the form Cruz and Paul claim to support have required a similar supermajority?
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Jul 22, 2017 01:47
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Nocturtle posted:Correct me if I'm wrong but it seems like the parliamentarian's ruling provides a convenient excuse for McConnell, in that he can blame obstructionist Democrats for the bills failure instead of his own party (if they hadn't already fractured over it a few days ago). Would a full repeal of the ACA in the form Cruz and Paul claim to support have required a similar supermajority? A full repeal? Yes. 60 votes required without a doubt. There was a 2015 bill that was a partial repeal that some people want to go back and pass again, but that has to leave some things, like the ban on excluding coverage of pre-existing conditions, in place.
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Jul 22, 2017 02:20
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again, there's no magic wall in the senate, they can do the whole thing with 51 if they want the problem is once they do that anyone can forever and it being really hard to do stuff in the senate helps the GOP a lot more than the Dems
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Jul 22, 2017 02:38
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DAD LOST MY IPOD posted:again, there's no magic wall in the senate, they can do the whole thing with 51 if they want They don't need 51. They need 50, and that's not even with a tiebreaker. There are 99 senators at the moment since McCain is incapacitated. They could pass it with 49 if they could get a republican defector to abstain instead of voting no with Pence breaking the 49-49 tie.
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Jul 22, 2017 02:42
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Mr. Nice! posted:They don't need 51. They need 50, and that's not even with a tiebreaker. There are 99 senators at the moment since McCain is incapacitated. They could pass it with 49 if they could get a republican defector to abstain instead of voting no with Pence breaking the 49-49 tie. I mean they could do the whole repeal, lock stock and barrel, with a simple majority without having to do anything as esoteric as overrule or replace the parliamentarian. The reason they don't isn't the Rule of Law but because the Senate being hard as gently caress to pass anything through helps republicans a lot more than it hurts them.
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Jul 22, 2017 03:03
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They need this win. Failure would plague the party. One might suspect they'll take any measure to get this through. My hope is that Senate GOP "no" votes aren't persuaded to the other side for this selfish reason.
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Jul 22, 2017 17:54
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Apparently the conservative activist groups have finally gotten the message and are spamming Capito and Murkowski's offices with calls. Collins is a hard no, but Lee, Moran and Paul will all vote on a MTP if they think they can get full repeal out of it. With McCain still out a Murkowski no kills the MTP, but she's wavering. Arizona's governor torched the bill but Flake is gung ho for yes (despite being the second most vulnerable 2018 R Senator after Heller) so that doesn't get us anywhere. Heller is such a coward. He and Portman won't be No #51, though they'd love the bill to fail I bet. Capito and Murkowski are the ones you need to focus on if you're making calls this weekend. If they're hard noes then it doesn't matter if McCain comes back, the repeal is dead.
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Jul 22, 2017 21:29
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I'm hearing rumors of a vote in the Senate this Tuesday. Any news? And yes - I made some calls.
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Jul 24, 2017 06:53
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Qu Appelle posted:I'm hearing rumors of a vote in the Senate this Tuesday. The senate is voting on something. What you might ask? I don't know, and neither do the senators heading to the floor. So go forward with that in mind.
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Jul 24, 2017 06:56
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Senate is voting on a motion to proceed on the full obamacare repeal with a 2-year delay. It is to gauge support for continuing the healthcare reform effort within the caucus and is expected to fail.
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Jul 24, 2017 13:42
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:Senate is voting on a motion to proceed on the full obamacare repeal with a 2-year delay. No. They are voting on a motion to proceed on debate on the obamacare repeal bill. Nobody has the faintest idea what that bill will be. Or even if it will be announced in favor of just opening debate and allowing amendments to be offered and offering the "final bill" as the last amendment at the end of debate.
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Jul 24, 2017 13:55
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Maybe McConnell's hoping if they vote on enough motions and amendments, at some point someone will slip up and the whole thing will pass by accident. Probably a more realistic plan than hopingTed Cruz will win everyone over with his charming personality.
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Jul 24, 2017 15:21
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Is McConnell even expecting this to make it to discussion? Wasn't "Repeal with Replace later, Maybe, like If We Feel Like it and can get our act together sometime in the future" one of the first ideas that died in Congress before the problem was kicked over to the Senate?
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Jul 24, 2017 15:31
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VitalSigns posted:Maybe McConnell's hoping if they vote on enough motions and amendments, at some point someone will slip up and the whole thing will pass by accident. I think that he may have given up on the cruz amendment but it may also be so terrible for the cbo score he pretended to give it up and it will mysteriously reappear at the end with no time to score it except the utterly fraudulent HHS score. I really don't quite get the plan here besides "avoid Mitch McConnell getting personally blamed" but yeah, I think it's sort of just rolling the dice and hoping enough people blink.
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Jul 24, 2017 15:32
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Monkey Fracas posted:Is McConnell even expecting this to make it to discussion? Wasn't "Repeal with Replace later, Maybe, like If We Feel Like it and can get our act together sometime in the future" one of the first ideas that died in Congress before the problem was kicked over to the Senate? He is now pitching "open debate, you're just opening debate on obamacare repeal generally, if you don't vote to open debate you're not opposing any one particular proposal you're endorsing obamacare generally." Nobody knows what the gently caress the text of the bill will even be, or if there will even be text.
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Jul 24, 2017 15:33
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The plan is to jam them with something after 20 hours of debate. They'll be frazzled, angry, and tired, and they'll be forced to vote without the time to draw up a press strategy with their staff or coalition with like minded senators to express specific objections. They will learn the full final text of the bill less than an hour before the final deadline vote. Leadership will attempt to isolate specific objectors and pressure them as hard as possible to vote for it to keep their promise to repeal the ACA. McConnell is forcing them to put up or shut up. I'm not optimistic. I am unsure of how the technicalities of this will work, since the CBO score (required for reconciliation passage) and parliamentarian's ruling (likewise) will not be available before the vote unless the final draft is the BCRA or ORRA (neither of which has the votes to pass). Still, unless this is just an attempt to show Trump a body, I think they're gonna run roughshod over the rules to get it through. All I can say is the next time the Dems have 50+1 and a president who won't veto they had better ram through single payer.
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Jul 24, 2017 16:25
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as our friends in california can attest, don't hold your breath on that one
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Jul 24, 2017 16:27
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By the way, when looking at what happens tomorrow there's going to be a key thing, aside from the obvious, to look for: what McConnell votes for. The reason is that anyone who voted in the majority can vote to reconsider a previous vote, but someone who voted in the minority cannot. So when something the majority leader wants to pass is going to fail, he will generally change his vote at the last minute "for procedural reasons". That reason is so he can have a redo. I'm fairly sure if the motion to proceed fails he'll switch his vote, but that's the reason why he's going to do it (and if he fails to do so, that's giving up on the legislation entirely).
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Jul 24, 2017 16:28
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This just floated down Twitter: https://twitter.com/igorvolsky/status/889563398320599040
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Jul 24, 2017 20:21
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Meanwhile: https://twitter.com/jennifershutt/status/889538067719229442 https://twitter.com/jennifershutt/status/889538408388939777 Something something credit rating agencies As always, when you can't win, cheat.
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Jul 24, 2017 20:35
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Rhesus Pieces posted:Meanwhile: Why even bother having a CBO if you're just going to go with aggregates of "think tanks" and most likely just pick and choose the budget reports that work for you the best.
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Jul 24, 2017 20:43
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Qu Appelle posted:This just floated down Twitter: That's what we already knew they were going to do. They legally have to start from the text of the House Bill for reconciliation. "Move to amendments in the form of substitute" just means "gut the entire bill and replace it with something, what that is is a mystery figment of a soap bubble in Mitch McConnell's brain."
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Jul 24, 2017 20:45
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Mulaney Power Move posted:Why even bother having a CBO if you're just going to go with aggregates of "think tanks" and most likely just pick and choose the budget reports that work for you the best. That's what the Republicans realized, yes.
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Jul 24, 2017 23:10
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McCain is back! https://www.washingtonpost.com/powe...25e268#comments There would be a sort of dark hilarity to McCain being the deciding factor that guts Obama's law, given Obama's highly retweeted tweet calling McCain an American hero after it was announced he had brain cancer. I almost see it as neo-liberalism to a T: praising Republicans who are complicit in an extreme right wing agenda just because they "seem" a little more reasonable and toned down. An American hero is not someone who votes to take healthcare from 24 million people. Yes - John McCain, a real call back to the long ago days of yore when the Republican party wasn't contaminated by Trump. Actually, the whole party has been contaminated by lobbying and big money since the late 70s.
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Jul 25, 2017 04:32
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McCain chose Palin as his running mate. There's a bright goddamn line from him to Trump and beyond.
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Jul 25, 2017 04:47
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Mokelumne Trekka posted:McCain is back! If he was convinced to show up they probably have the votes. Godspeed America!
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Jul 25, 2017 14:23
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LinYutang posted:If he was convinced to show up they probably have the votes. Godspeed America! Not necessarily.
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Jul 25, 2017 14:26
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