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In this Electrek bit, a Model 3 engineer says the center display is better for night vision. I'll believe that when I try it myself, which also applies to the rest of the middle screen ergonomics. Given Tesla's history of gee-wiz over practicality, I have my doubts. https://electrek.co/2017/07/23/tesla-model-3-engineer-test-driving-instrument-cluster/ As for the leather seats, I'm slightly torn, like old cloth seats would be after one year. The idea that leather is "preemum feel" is as dated as chrome-look plastic power window switches. In auld tymes, pleb cars had corduroy crap that ripped and turned moldy. Luxury cars had thick Chesterfield leather, perhaps with a yearling bull foreskin on the shift knob. Now textile seats are made from polyester material that wears better than the thin, mass produced real or fake leather. Early Teslas in particular have a bad reputation for leather wear and stretching. Leather is also colder on cold days and more clammy on hot days. The Soul I rented had vented fake leather seats, that was nice but not so good that I couldn't live without it. Teslas attempt at vented seats was nixed quite fast, I think they just didn't vent very well and the perforated material would stretch and rip very easily. As for the morals, I'm not entirely sure if it's less sustainable to sit on something made from an animal vs something made from oil. If I was vegan, that opinion would probably be different. But while textile seats are more comfortable on particularly hot or cold days, preconditioning via app evens things out. Textile seats tend to accrue some stink after a while, more so after the inevitable coffee or ice cream spillage. The leathers are much more expensive though, not sure they are worth it. If I was ordering a Tesla today, I think I'd go for textile plus a bottle of water repellant. You could probably get the factory seat covers replaced after a few years for a third of the leather option cost.
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Jul 24, 2017 10:17
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The Sicilian posted:Here is Bob Lutz himself calling the Bolt a compliance car. Here's the actual quote: quote:“I don’t know if anybody noticed, but full-size sport-utilities used to be — just a few years ago used to be $42,000, all in, fully equipped. You can’t touch a Chevy Tahoe for under about $65 [thousand] now,” he said. “Yukons are in the $70 [thousands]. The Escalade comfortably hits $100 [thousand]. Three or four years ago they were about $60,000. What this is, is companies trying to recover what they’re losing at the other end with what I call compliance vehicles, which are Chevy Volts, Bolts, plug-in Cadillacs and fuel cell vehicles.” He's calling the entire EV/Hybrid segment compliance vehicles, which isn't too far from the truth, but he's also not using the term in the same way that most people do when they point at a specific model and say "that's a compliance car." The Bolt, Volt, Prius, Leaf, basically every EV built thus far that doesn't wear a T on the hood is ultimately a compliance car, by Lutz's definition. Yes, GM's ultimate goal is to comply with Californian regulations on ZEVs, so they can keep selling things that are actually profitable for them. Your source had a misleading scare headline, is my ultimate point. Also, and only tangentially related; The rest of the talk that the article is referencing is basically a bunch of auto execs bitching about the market. It's pretty amusing.
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Jul 24, 2017 14:20
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BTW per Elektrek here's a shot of the speedometer in a prototype:
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Jul 24, 2017 14:40
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Gamesguy posted:Too bad the Model 3 doesn't have a dash display. Because we don't know how it will entirely function. Michael Scott posted:BTW per Elektrek here's a shot of the speedometer in a prototype: I'm waiting for the reveal for all the details, there is something being held back. The question is, will we care?
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Jul 24, 2017 15:09
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Gonna glue a big ipad to my 1979 chevette and sell it on ebay.
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Jul 24, 2017 15:11
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I really want to believe that final production is significantly better than that picture Michael Scott found. When I think of compliance vehicles, I think of the 500e where the goal is not to really learn anything or invest in expertise or whatever, it's just so that Serge can sell cars without getting killed in CA. That's a compliance vehicle. Stuff you take a bath on to advance your own knowledge to me is not a compliance vehicle.
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Jul 24, 2017 15:37
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:I really want to believe that final production is significantly better than that picture Michael Scott found. We can wait for our resident Ars writer to get a review sample and weigh in (probably fluffed by Elon for review). I did notice on Michael Scott's photo, the little control nubs are clearly covered up. I think there may be another level or type of function there. Or I'm a dumb rear end in a top hat, either way P B U E. Finally, as long as the bulk of development dollars aren't going towards EV's and continue to produce some so-so (I know, there are great GM models now) ICE models with more and more efficiency hacks like the annoying as gently caress start-stop; we will experience "compliance" vehicles. GM because they made the bolt can now sell a fuckload of SUVs, pickup trucks and other vehicles more in CA than they are or will sell of the bolt. Notice before how I said the bolt was the best spec wise in the segment? That's because the model 3 isn't out yet. bolt does 2xx miles model 3 is projected to do 3xx. Plus acceleration and a few other factors that tilt in model 3's favor. The bolt has the model 3 interior beat as of now, but I'm willing to hear Elon out. I'm going to Toxx Clause and say I will not post any more about EV interiors of any kind until the model 3 reveal.
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Jul 24, 2017 15:57
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Please tell me that's not the final speedometer, because if it is, holy poo poo. Maybe they should just do it in ASCII art.The Sicilian posted:Notice before how I said the bolt was the best spec wise in the segment? That's because the model 3 isn't out yet. bolt does 2xx miles model 3 is projected to do 3xx. While it wouldn't surprise me if there might be some kind of 300+ mile expensive option on the 3, there's no way, no way in hell it'll come base.
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Jul 24, 2017 16:22
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I thought the other options on the 3 were colour and wheels.
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Jul 24, 2017 16:48
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Subjunctive posted:I thought the other options on the 3 were colour and wheels. At launch, ya; I'd imagine there will be more options available later, to include a PxxD version.
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Jul 24, 2017 16:51
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Agronox posted:While it wouldn't surprise me if there might be some kind of 300+ mile expensive option on the 3, there's no way, no way in hell it'll come base. We shall see. If Elon does 3xx at $35k, people will be shook.
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Jul 24, 2017 16:51
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MrYenko posted:At launch, ya; I'd imagine there will be more options available later, to include a PxxD version. They've said there will be a D option in the future, but neither P not D extend range. Quite the opposite in the P case.
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Jul 24, 2017 16:53
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Elephanthead posted:Gonna glue a big ipad to my 1979 chevette and sell it on ebay. Tesla is the biggest offender here but every manufacturer is doing this.
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Jul 24, 2017 16:55
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KakerMix posted:Tesla is the biggest offender here but every manufacturer is doing this. The main and major difference is that other OEMs have for the most part had redundant controls and displays for critical systems.
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Jul 24, 2017 17:21
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:The main and major difference is that other OEMs have for the most part had redundant controls and displays for critical systems. Which one? I can't remember any car with standby instruments or controls. If something fails, it fails and you pull over or deal with it, it's not a transoceanic airliner. The only exception is split brake circuits which is legally required so Teslas have them as well. And redundant brake circuits don't cover all failure modes, as I found out in a Ford Escort once.
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Jul 24, 2017 17:31
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I can watch my speedometer from my phone!
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Jul 24, 2017 17:54
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Ignore the source and commentary on this tweet. What do y'all think of the nose here? https://twitter.com/markbspiegel/status/888616316852211712
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Jul 24, 2017 18:32
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Ola posted:Which one? I can't remember any car with standby instruments or controls. If something fails, it fails and you pull over or deal with it, it's not a transoceanic airliner. The only exception is split brake circuits which is legally required so Teslas have them as well. And redundant brake circuits don't cover all failure modes, as I found out in a Ford Escort once. Michael Scott posted:BTW per Elektrek here's a shot of the speedometer in a prototype:
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Jul 24, 2017 18:38
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Agronox posted:Ignore the source and commentary on this tweet. What do y'all think of the nose here? Eh, it's a car. I think it mostly looks weird because the lighting is bad.
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Jul 24, 2017 18:40
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Ola posted:Which one? I can't remember any car with standby instruments or controls. If something fails, it fails and you pull over or deal with it, it's not a transoceanic airliner. The only exception is split brake circuits which is legally required so Teslas have them as well. And redundant brake circuits don't cover all failure modes, as I found out in a Ford Escort once. The iPad on dash is pretty much only used for climate, radio, etc, and on a lot of cars there are also physical controls (on my cheap poo poo Ford, I can use touchscreen controls or physical controls for both the radio and climate). It's not redundant in terms of failure, it's redundant modes of control for the user.
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Jul 24, 2017 18:41
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mobby_6kl posted:That's horrific. Do you change gears by sliding the labels? How about blinkers? Also lol at the blank map. well uh there ain't gears so that isn't a requirement TooMuchAbstraction posted:Eh, it's a car. I think it mostly looks weird because the lighting is bad. I agree, it's one pretty bad picture. We'll see when the real thing comes out.
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Jul 24, 2017 18:42
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Agronox posted:Ignore the source and commentary on this tweet. What do y'all think of the nose here? Looks a bit awkward. A front license plate will fill it out just like the facelift S, and it looks like the driver has good visibility. Very few cars look good from every angle.
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Jul 24, 2017 18:42
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:The iPad on dash is pretty much only used for climate, radio, etc, and on a lot of cars there are also physical controls (on my cheap poo poo Ford, I can use touchscreen controls or physical controls for both the radio and climate). It's not redundant in terms of failure, it's redundant modes of control for the user. Hardly critical systems. And it's not redundant for engineered safety, it's redundant due to design committee compromise. That said, I don't like touchscreen for things you want to operate while driving, such as climate control and the Model S should've had better steering wheel controls. Not too bad as it is though, but I think the Model 3 might be a touch too far.
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Jul 24, 2017 18:48
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Ola posted:Looks a bit awkward. A front license plate will fill it out just like the facelift S, and it looks like the driver has good visibility. Very few cars look good from every angle. Yeah, I might be stuck in old thinking, but the lack of a grille still throws me off a bit. Even though it would be completely superfluous. It likely looks better in person.
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Jul 24, 2017 18:55
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The front end looks weird because we are used to seeing a big gaping maw on the front of cars. A big gaping grill on the front of the model 3 would be tantamount to non functional hood scoops on a Mustang, which is stupid. It looks weird, yes, but only because we aren't seeing a previously-necessary component of a car that is no longer necessary. I'd rather the Model 3 be designed for efficiency and aerodynamics than to appeal to conventional ICE car design requirements that are not needed.
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Jul 24, 2017 19:01
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Ola posted:Hardly critical systems. And it's not redundant for engineered safety, it's redundant due to design committee compromise. That said, I don't like touchscreen for things you want to operate while driving, such as climate control and the Model S should've had better steering wheel controls. Not too bad as it is though, but I think the Model 3 might be a touch too far. yeah i shouldn't have said critical systems but other than that you appear to agree with me
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Jul 24, 2017 19:01
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Elephanthead posted:Gonna glue a big ipad to my 1979 chevette and sell it on ebay. Good way to double, possibly triple its value, imo!
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Jul 24, 2017 19:23
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Finger Prince posted:Good way to double, possibly triple its value, imo! Yeah but the ipad costs 10 times more then the car. This model is not sustainable without doing an IPO!
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Jul 24, 2017 19:28
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I think it still looks like upset Kermit face.
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Jul 24, 2017 19:32
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I saw a model X for the first time in person a while ago and I thought it looked oddly narrow or perhaps bulbous from the beltline and up, and I think the model 3 looks a bit the same. The grill looks bad, it just reminds me of nascar headlight decals or like a plastic model where you pop out the grill yourself turn signals, windows wipers, gear selector eyebeem posted:The front end looks weird because we are used to seeing a big gaping maw on the front of cars. A big gaping grill on the front of the model 3 would be tantamount to non functional hood scoops on a Mustang, which is stupid. It looks weird, yes, but only because we aren't seeing a previously-necessary component of a car that is no longer necessary. It's not though, it's designed for pedestrian safety. Or else it would be a nosecone?
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Jul 24, 2017 19:36
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Subjunctive posted:I think it still looks like upset Kermit face. Angry duck face imo. Still buying it though.
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Jul 24, 2017 19:55
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CAT INTERCEPTOR posted:Good. Leather interiors are loving crap and just a luxury wank job, esp when faux leather synthetics is a fuckload better in every respect.
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Jul 24, 2017 20:09
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KOTEX GOD OF BLOOD posted:Holy poo poo this is wrong. I mean, the synthetics are going to be better than lovely embossed top grain leather, but nothing is better than high-quality, full grain leather. Nothing. Absolute bullshit. Syntetics long ago got better than anything that came off a crappy cow
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Jul 24, 2017 20:29
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hifi posted:
Where's the cruise/AP lever? That's surprising.
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Jul 24, 2017 20:31
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Subjunctive posted:Where's the cruise/AP lever? That's surprising.  I guess one tap for TACC and two for Autopilot. No apparent way to adjust distance to car in front, but I guess you don't need to because 
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Jul 24, 2017 20:36
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TBF, I adjust that pretty infrequently and it's never safety-critical to do so afaict. Putting it on the panel is probably fine. Do most cars with TACC let you adjust that? I've only ever driven my Ses and a Kia Optima.
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Jul 24, 2017 20:40
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Subjunctive posted:TBF, I adjust that pretty infrequently and it's never safety-critical to do so afaict. Putting it on the panel is probably fine. I think so yeah. I've driven VW Golf, Passat and Mitsubishi Outlander which all lets you adjust it, but they are fully decked out with buttons and dials in the traditional style.
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Jul 24, 2017 20:47
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Agronox posted:Please tell me that's not the final speedometer, because if it is, holy poo poo. Maybe they should just do it in ASCII art. Uhhh yeah that image is both extremely hilarious and extremely worrying. The important bit of information is smaller and less noticeable than Mr. Bean's head.
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Jul 25, 2017 00:35
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FistEnergy posted:Uhhh yeah that image is both extremely hilarious and extremely worrying. The important bit of information is smaller and less noticeable than Mr. Bean's head. You won’t care though
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Jul 25, 2017 00:38
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Isn't that preproduction? No way are they going to show anyone final UI before the unveil. They make pretty mediocre UI, but they're real proud of it.
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Jul 25, 2017 00:39
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