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Rand Brittain
Mar 25, 2013

"Go on until you're stopped."
The real question is, why does it matter? Is Elidibus going to try to convince the Emperor that he was Gaius all along?

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Ciaphas
Nov 20, 2005

> BEWARE, COWARD :ovr:


FFMQ Omega tier or riot

Gearhead
Feb 13, 2007
The Metroid of Humor
Probably not.

It may be a bungle on his part, or an attempt at blackmail.

'Look, your old teacher is still alive, I'm just borrowing him for a while!' or 'If you ever want your teacher back, you'll help me.'

hobbesmaster
Jan 28, 2008

SettingSun posted:

I finished the Summoner class story recently and it was actually disappointing. Your 70 skill is summoning demi-bahamut, but the story can't be arsed to make that a plot point. I mean, half of the 50 storyline is trying (and failing) to overcome the 3 egi limit. Nope, Bahamut doesn't have to follow the rules it seems.

It's only the first quest of the 50-60 storyline. The rest are Y'mhitra trying ways for you to channel bahamut's abilities and then the 70 skill is taught to you by reading a book.

I think they wanted to disconnect the job stories with the abilities you get because they reserve the right to change it all around.

Kuvo
Oct 27, 2008

Blame it on the misfortune of your bark!
Fun Shoe

hobbesmaster posted:

I think they wanted to disconnect the job stories with the abilities you get because they reserve the right to change it all around.

Its this. While I agree the "oh ya now you can summon demi-bahumut" footnote after the 70 quest is stupid, its probably better then having 5 different class quests build up to you getting a cool new primal then actually receiving tri-bind because yoship decided to retool SMN in 5.0

yoship please retool SMN

Kuvo fucked around with this message at 22:19 on Jul 24, 2017

cheetah7071
Oct 20, 2010

honk honk
College Slice

Kuvo posted:

yoship please retool SMN

When 5.0 finally disentangles smn from sch, sch will keep aetherflow. Smn will instead have painflare and fester share a cooldown, and using either of them gives a dreadwyrm stack. Bane will just be a cooldown.

Whether this is a monkey paw or not is up to you.

cheetah7071 fucked around with this message at 22:29 on Jul 24, 2017

Fister Roboto
Feb 21, 2008

I would not be upset if one of the "new" classes in 5.0 was a completely revamped, non-arcanist summoner.

Harrow
Jun 30, 2012

It always bugged me that Summoner was actually the "do damage with poison spells" job. I just want more of their spells to be, y'know, Summoner-y instead of Warlock Lite. Even if they're still a DoT class, elemental DoTs instead of poison-based ones would be more thematically appropriate.

Jinh
Sep 12, 2008

Fun Shoe
Yeah and I'd be cool with that idea of the aetherflow removal, pending cooldown time. 1 min on bane would be fine, maybe 15 or 30s on the other two shared. Alternate between bahamut egi and dreadwyrm every minute, player's choice which to start with.


And goddamn give them miasma II

cheetah7071
Oct 20, 2010

honk honk
College Slice
If I were redesigning smn from the ground up, I'd make the summons more like new bard songs, where they're phases you activate rather than stances. So in your rotation, you'd enter a garuda phase, a titan phase, an ifrit phase, and then cap it off with a bahamut/dreadwyrm trance phase

Harrow
Jun 30, 2012

cheetah7071 posted:

If I were redesigning smn from the ground up, I'd make the summons more like new bard songs, where they're phases you activate rather than stances. So in your rotation, you'd enter a garuda phase, a titan phase, an ifrit phase, and then cap it off with a bahamut/dreadwyrm trance phase

Yeah, I've seen that come up before and that would be cool as hell.

Jinh
Sep 12, 2008

Fun Shoe

Harrow posted:

Yeah, I've seen that come up before and that would be cool as hell.

Rainuwastaken
Oct 30, 2012

Another blue ribbon for Hecarim.
"Not now, Ifrit-egi, I'm trying to come up with a new elemental-themed DoT spell! Gosh, I don't know why you won't leave me alone. You're like this hot, burning flame that's slowly whittling down my concentration over time, until I eventually expire...."

"....Wait, that's it! POISON!"

Meanwhile, Garuda-egi gazes wistfully at Bard's new animations and weeps a single tear.

cheetah7071
Oct 20, 2010

honk honk
College Slice
As someone who doesn't main smn I actually really enjoy the class now because the class has such a low skill floor that I can feel like I'm contributing in exdr despite not really playing the class

My condolences to smn mains though

Gearhead
Feb 13, 2007
The Metroid of Humor
SMN is good, dumb fun to play. But after trying to play DDR with a keyboard as BLM back in 3.0 I was basically fed up. RDM seems to be like a good, happy medium, but they are EVERYWHERE right now.

(I too would not be against making it into something stance-based with Summons as DPS boosting cooldowns similar to Demi-Bahamut.)

Maybe have it so that you .. hrm. You select three different Primals you're going to use, and these change the elemental type of your spells, and each one fills up a gauge. When each is filled you Trance to summon a Demi-Primal for a brief period before it goes away. Then after you've filled up all three gauges you can Dreadwyrm Trance, which ends with a Demi-Bahamut charge or something. And then the cycle resumes.

Maybe tool it such that you can't have opposing elements on the wheel at the same time, such that Lightning/Ice, Water/Fire and Wind/Earth are mechanically similar but cosmetically different from one another.

EDIT: Though this is somewhat spoiled by not fighting Lightning OR Ice Primals until post-2.0. On the other hand, there's nothing SPECIAL about Summon III anyway.

Gearhead fucked around with this message at 23:02 on Jul 24, 2017

Not Operator
Jan 1, 2009

Not A doctor, THE Doctor!

RoboJoe posted:

tank stuff
Other people have already responded to most of this but as I've grouped with you a bunch I can safely say you're doing everything more or less right. Bigger pulls can wait until you're more comfortable with your abilities and the dungeon layouts. Keeping the mobs largely still is helpful to melee dps who have positionals to worry about but don't let it keep you from moving out of aoe markers. Repostioning so your huge pulls are all standing in your party members ground aoes is pro-tank poo poo and really impresses people.

As for whether people will go on dungeon runs with you, I think its always worth asking at least once. If you don't get a quick response just go ahead and queue, but if you do, you just saved some dps fifteen minutes and you have someone to gossip with when the healer turns out to be a huge rear end in a top hat.

Also I keep telling people this and I can only assume they think I'm just being polite, but if I'm doing nothing and you give me a shout, I'll generally tag along for whatever.

quote:

I feel so stupid about worrying so much in a videogame like this when I'm about to hit that queue button in case I mess up a dungeon and make everyone wipe and they all get mad.
And if it makes you feel any better, anxiety over ruining people's fun is why I don't play healer. Its probably not healthy but you're not alone.

Cythereal
Nov 8, 2009

I love the potoo,
and the potoo loves you.

Not Operator posted:

And if it makes you feel any better, anxiety over ruining people's fun is why I don't play healer. Its probably not healthy but you're not alone.

As an inveterate MMO healer, I go with the notion that as the healer, if I'm not having fun then no one else will be, either. :v:

I have that feeling about playing a tank, though.

To each their own.

Obligatum VII
May 5, 2014

Haunting you until no 8 arrives.

cheetah7071 posted:

If I were redesigning smn from the ground up, I'd make the summons more like new bard songs, where they're phases you activate rather than stances. So in your rotation, you'd enter a garuda phase, a titan phase, an ifrit phase, and then cap it off with a bahamut/dreadwyrm trance phase

This is basically the ideal way to do it, in my mind. People really like the new BRD, so it's a formula that is proven to work.

Reiterpallasch
Nov 3, 2010



Fun Shoe
i find that new smn is much harder to play than 3.x smn, because of all the weaving you have to do while demi-bahamut is out and the inability to stash trance and trail stacks at the same time

your experience may vary, of course

cheetah7071
Oct 20, 2010

honk honk
College Slice

Reiterpallasch posted:

i find that new smn is much harder to play than 3.x smn, because of all the weaving you have to do while demi-bahamut is out and the inability to stash trance and trail stacks at the same time

your experience may vary, of course

Yeah I don't doubt the skill ceiling is much higher but the skill floor is also lower. It's much harder to gently caress up the core mechanics of the class (at least as of 4.05) than it was in Heavensward, even if it's much harder to do everything optimally

Captain Oblivious
Oct 12, 2007

I'm not like other posters
So what is the generally agreed upon tank substat priority these days? I don't mean in terms of melds, but in terms of the gear itself. What two stats should I be prioritizing for my slots? Crit/Tenacity? Crit/Det?

Hidingo Kojimba
Mar 29, 2010

Gearhead posted:

Probably not.

It may be a bungle on his part, or an attempt at blackmail.

'Look, your old teacher is still alive, I'm just borrowing him for a while!' or 'If you ever want your teacher back, you'll help me.'

This is what I'd assume to, although it makes more sense with Regula Van Hydrus as Solus actually considers him a personal friend. On the other hand Regula is most definately dead whereas we never actually see Gaius' body.

hobbesmaster
Jan 28, 2008

Reiterpallasch posted:

i find that new smn is much harder to play than 3.x smn, because of all the weaving you have to do while demi-bahamut is out and the inability to stash trance and trail stacks at the same time

your experience may vary, of course

and if you have to step even a yard to get out of an aoe bahamut just sits there doing nothing like the fat dumb dragon he is for 2 gcds

BLM is more mobile.

Ciaphas
Nov 20, 2005

> BEWARE, COWARD :ovr:


I got to 62 on SCH last night after some panicked butt clenching while learning when (not) to rely on Eos. Such a weird jump from WHM, and oh god I am NOT looking forward to trying to heal Bardam's Mettle at 65 :gonk:

How should I be using Excogitation? Just throw it up on cooldown and use it as an excuse to Broil more before I have to stop and think about Lustrate/Physick/Adlo, or what?

Reiterpallasch
Nov 3, 2010



Fun Shoe

Captain Oblivious posted:

So what is the generally agreed upon tank substat priority these days? I don't mean in terms of melds, but in terms of the gear itself. What two stats should I be prioritizing for my slots? Crit/Tenacity? Crit/Det?

Crit isn't high enough this early in the patch for it to be worth stacking on non-bards (it's the only substat that scales superlinearly). Stacking Direct Hit and Tenacity are both defensible right now, depending on whether you think ~5% passive damage mitigation is worth a commensurate amount of DPS loss.

TheRagamuffin
Aug 31, 2008

In Paradox Space, when you cross the line, your nuts are mine.

Ciaphas posted:


How should I be using Excogitation? Just throw it up on cooldown and use it as an excuse to Broil more before I have to stop and think about Lustrate/Physick/Adlo, or what?

Largesse+Fey Illumination->Excog(->Eye for an Eye?)->Adlo(->Deploy?)-> DPS cause you're good for a while. :v:

Reiterpallasch
Nov 3, 2010



Fun Shoe
don't forget eye for an eye, it's huge in giant pulls.

also:

largesse doesn't affect excog and lustrate because they're actions and not spells. largesse doesn't affect actions because fuuuuuck you.

Argas
Jan 13, 2008
SRW Fanatic




Hidingo Kojimba posted:

This is what I'd assume to, although it makes more sense with Regula Van Hydrus as Solus actually considers him a personal friend. On the other hand Regula is most definately dead whereas we never actually see Gaius' body.

On the flipside, Elidibus might have his own rules for body possession.

Ciaphas
Nov 20, 2005

> BEWARE, COWARD :ovr:


Reiterpallasch posted:

don't forget eye for an eye, it's huge in giant pulls.

also:

largesse doesn't affect excog and lustrate because they're actions and not spells. largesse doesn't affect actions because fuuuuuck you.

last night I also learned that this means Dissipation also doesn't affect excog, lustrate and indom which is some top tier bullshit if I've ever heard it.

I don't think I even have Largesse selected right now for SCH, I think it's Protect, Lucid Dreaming, Swiftcast, E4E and Esuna. Guess I could swap out Protect or Esuna along the way but :effort:

TheRagamuffin
Aug 31, 2008

In Paradox Space, when you cross the line, your nuts are mine.

Reiterpallasch posted:

don't forget eye for an eye, it's huge in giant pulls.

also:

largesse doesn't affect excog and lustrate because they're actions and not spells. largesse doesn't affect actions because fuuuuuck you.

Holy poo poo what :aaaaa:

Yeah gently caress that, trading largesse for rescue full time now.

Obligatum VII
May 5, 2014

Haunting you until no 8 arrives.

TheRagamuffin posted:

Holy poo poo what :aaaaa:

Yeah gently caress that, trading largesse for rescue full time now.

It's still useful for supercharging an adlo, I use it for pre-pull ones

Reiterpallasch
Nov 3, 2010



Fun Shoe
the issue is to get largesse, you give up esuna and rescue (assuming lucid dreaming, e4e, protect, and swiftcast are mandatory, which they are).

a) gently caress if i'm going to remember to add esuna back to my bar every time i queue into something where i need it
b) rescue is the funniest goddamn poo poo on the planet

Reiterpallasch fucked around with this message at 00:01 on Jul 25, 2017

Fister Roboto
Feb 21, 2008

Captain Oblivious posted:

So what is the generally agreed upon tank substat priority these days? I don't mean in terms of melds, but in terms of the gear itself. What two stats should I be prioritizing for my slots? Crit/Tenacity? Crit/Det?

Direct hit for easy content, tenacity for savage progression.

Reiterpallasch
Nov 3, 2010



Fun Shoe
the difference between max tenacity and base-stats tenacity is like 8% damage reduction. practically speaking, you're not going to be playing the-floor-is-lava with tenacity, so you're looking at more like 3-5% damage reduction from stacking tenacity relative to just putting on whatever.

e: to be clear, if you plan on being in o4s anytime soon, you're gonna take that 3-5% and you're gonna like it.

Azubah
Jun 5, 2007

I liked Gaius because he truly believed his bull poo poo and honestly if the warrior of light wasn't around his course of action was more or less the correct one.

Captain Oblivious
Oct 12, 2007

I'm not like other posters

Azubah posted:

I liked Gaius because he truly believed his bull poo poo and honestly if the warrior of light wasn't around his course of action was more or less the correct one.

If the Warrior of Light wasn't around he would still be a fascist being manipulated by forces that literally want to destroy multiple parallel realities in the name of their dark god.

So no, not really. His motivations are understandable, don't mistake that for them being good :v:

Ghost of Starman
Mar 9, 2008
Just dipped my toe into PvP for the first time; can someone explain what the hell is going on? FFXIV explains everything else meticulously (sometimes laboriously) but I got dumped into Fields of Glory without so much as a how-do-you-do. I'm reading the website now, so I get "control the big things, shatter the small ice things, kill dudes" but there was a lot to absorb while people were actively trying to murder me.

Also PvP as a MNK seems like kind of a clusterfuck of Shoulder Tackling twice every 30 seconds and not doing a heck of a lot else. Anyone have any pointers?

Captain Oblivious
Oct 12, 2007

I'm not like other posters

Ghost of Starman posted:

Just dipped my toe into PvP for the first time; can someone explain what the hell is going on? FFXIV explains everything else meticulously (sometimes laboriously) but I got dumped into Fields of Glory without so much as a how-do-you-do. I'm reading the website now, so I get "control the big things, shatter the small ice things, kill dudes" but there was a lot to absorb while people were actively trying to murder me.

Also PvP as a MNK seems like kind of a clusterfuck of Shoulder Tackling twice every 30 seconds and not doing a heck of a lot else. Anyone have any pointers?

My first recommendation is that you go to the Wolves' Den Pier area, which counts as a PvP zone, and use the PvP Profile window to meticulously read over how all of your abilities are totally different in PvP.

Set up your hotbars, figure out your traits and extra actions, THEN PvP.

Reiterpallasch
Nov 3, 2010



Fun Shoe

Ghost of Starman posted:

Just dipped my toe into PvP for the first time; can someone explain what the hell is going on? FFXIV explains everything else meticulously (sometimes laboriously) but I got dumped into Fields of Glory without so much as a how-do-you-do. I'm reading the website now, so I get "control the big things, shatter the small ice things, kill dudes" but there was a lot to absorb while people were actively trying to murder me.

Also PvP as a MNK seems like kind of a clusterfuck of Shoulder Tackling twice every 30 seconds and not doing a heck of a lot else. Anyone have any pointers?

-- there are three bots being sold right now that have different behavior, and at least 50% of shatter queues are bots right now. learn the difference between the three kinds of bot swarms, learn how to get hostile bots stuck on terrain, and don't underestimate their ability to focus fire you in a straight fight.

-- ice doesn't loving matter in pvp, or at least not in the way people think it does. the team that does the best at killing the other teams almost always wins. play for kills.

-- plus, beating up ice for 15 minutes is no fun anyway

-- generally speaking you're never going to be able to kill a player by yourself, once heals start landing--a cure 2 or whatever is much more healing than you can possibly handle in the time it takes them to cast another one. on the flip side, you have insanely high potency, simplified combos, and strong OGDs, so you can take someone down from 60% to dead before their healer can react.

-- as a melee, your job is to quickly target a person who's out of position and burst them down before their healer can react. practice your combo for shoulder tackling in and packing in as much damage as possible in 2-3 GCDs, and don't waste it against people you don't think you can kill with it.

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Bleu
Jul 19, 2006

Azubah posted:

I liked Gaius because he truly believed his bull poo poo and honestly if the warrior of light wasn't around his course of action was more or less the correct one.

Gaius wasn't just going to use the Ultima Weapon to eat primals, it was going to be a superweapon that he was going to turn on Eorzea. Also, the primals inside of it were still leeching aether, meaning it was going to still destroy the planet eventually.

We all know the best legatus is Regulus.

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