The democrats are a waste

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Tom Perez B/K/M? This poll is closed.
B	77	25.50%
K	160	52.98%
M	65	21.52%
Total:	229 votes

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Sneakster: Jul 13, 2017; by R. Guyovich

Willie Tomg posted:

Basically anyone who has registered an account on SA in the last four years I've safely and reliably assumed was a rereg, but on the off chance you're all the things you've said and none of those things I said:

Nobody of note, but it can be both.

Willie Tomg posted:

you. are. high. on. your. own. piss. if you think the wave that's sweeping the globe will pass by ScandyLand. You're a student? look up what they were doing in that neck of the woods in 1944. or the struggles they've dealt with contemporaneously.
You're at ground zero for tidal forces changing the world, and you're going "OOOH! maybe the tsunami will be gentler the further away I get!"

More of a hobo thats conned my way into university. I do plan to keep citizenship for convenience. Less swimming out, more increasing range of movement. A significant portion is having lost esteem in this country and society., nowhere is perfect, but I'm disgusted by basically every level of every institution I've interacted with. To have absorbed generations of welfare benefits, contributed almost nothing in taxes, used public institution for acquiring access to capital and opportunity, and then utilized the most creative accounting and every unethical behavior applicable to siphon off and embezzle as much as I possibly can to build a life somewhere else that I even contribute to, would be the greatest moral victory.

Willie Tomg posted:

You may be closer to me ideologically than some ITT, but you're an ignorant coward.

I don't deny that.

Willie Tomg posted:

if you're telling the truth then you don't have the cash to play the game you're trying so desperately to enter.

Agreed, but I'm finding out how useful being conventionally attractive and willing to assert what you want is. I've basically given up ethical restraint and moral boundaries, and have been rewarded and treated better for it. Even better, at the cost of others, and in ways I objectively don't deserve. I'm basically scamming my way into social mobility and any measure of success is solely due to deciding to break all the rules poor people are taught to obey. Its amazing: the shallow, spoiled, sociopathic narcissism that pervades the gentry is actually an unbelievably valuable asset. Honest work would not save me, but a criminal mindset with nothing to lose goes far. I finally understand why all the middle class people I ever knew were always strangely prone to petty crime and theft.

It's kind of like somewhere between Dune, and that movie The Couch Trip with Dan Aykroyd, but not in a mental institution.

ugh its Troika posted:

Where is TobelroneTriangular in our hour of need?

He didn't have the will and abandon to truly embrace purestrain libertarianism to become anarcho-fascist like the cool kids these days.

Willie Tomg posted:

Like, I get it. Your gimmick is you say true things and then you say repugnant moral statements so you're Fulchrum But With Truth.

The problem is with your premise. Fulchrum isn't Fulchrum because they're lying. They're Fulchrum because they say in dead set seriousness "TWO PLUS TWO EQUALS FORTY-SEVEN, AND IF YOU THINK ITS FOUR OR FIVE OR THREE YOU'RE RACIST poo poo WELL DONE BERNIBROS GOOD LUCK WITH YOUR ARITHMETICAL PURITY TESTS"

That you don't realize the antidote to this is: being a normal person; this is troubling. This indicates to me you're educated enough to learn yourself into trouble but not enough to teach yourself out.

I'm not completely sure if this is towards me, but I'm not quite that cynical, I don't endorse the horrible things, I'm just aware of them and sickened by whats considered acceptable behavior in our society. Being a normal person would be making minimum wage and shelters, my escape from destitution is predicated in embracing the absurd.

call to action posted:

It's always the assholes with the complicated tax dodges that cry the biggest crocodile tears about Trump's "social norms" and decorum, wonder why that is

Honest work is rarely profitable, virtually every element of business is in the most profitable and unethical behavior one can legally get away with. The loss of the mask of civility risks the loss of a stable status quo. Phrasing things in terms of class war in politics is, or was, considered more inappropriate than racial slurs. The more money you make, the more dependent you are on the good will of the law to consider how your assets are managed and grown. Civility is very often the line between something being morally criminally and legally criminal. I'm a respectable member of society; my completely fraudulent tax dodge scam is legal, because technically I split funds I spent on my myself across two meetings that I specified two meetings coincidentally back to back, so it wasn't one meeting, and therefore fits the legal requirements to not be complete and obvious fraud. Implying this is unethical, that what I'm doing is wrong, or even proposing the law is changed to reflect that is class war, you just need to adopt my work ethic. What I'm doing is noble, it's a charitable foundation, I'm not the bad guy here, I donate democrat, I'm socially inclusive, fiscally conservative.

VitalSigns posted:

I'm staying to agree with MLK that moderates are the worst, most contemptible people. Because they know what's right, but because they're personally comfortable they'll spend all their time coming up with dishonest reasons not to do it.

Absolutely and completely. Middle class people have no concerns except to acquire property. I've known people that complain about Trump's racism, while openly refusing to rent to single mothers and minorities.

Nosfereefer posted:

UHC is a basic part of any semi-developed nation's infrastructure on the same level as a working sewage system, or an electrical grid.

I was watching some gross pimple popping videos on youtube, like necrotic cysts and poo poo. I think the worst was video of a guy getting BB gun pellet out of his kids ear with tweezers and someone commenting about being glad to live in a country with public healthcare instead of shoving tweezers in the kids drat ear. Oh the American hinterland responses:

In video of man risking puncturing his childs ear drum because America posted:

" You get what you pay for , and if you are not charged , it can't be good service . Drs don't spend 8 or more years in college to give medical care for free"
" We don't want the government in healthcare , they are too much into our business as it is , and when the disaster in Washington finally leaves , trump will fix the problems BO caused"
" I just love when people from the UK try to one up America with their lies about the health care system"

Christ, I think things are changing since America is so isolated, before the rise of the internet, UHC was only heard about in hushed tones of urban legends. Now people in first world countries post online where Americans congregate about how weird it is how people walk around in America with no health insurance like its just a normal thing and not completely insane.

DNC leadership is really trying to keep this going as long as they can, but, we know about other countries these days, and a growing portion of democratic reps are taking note. Why are you still doing this to us? We know this isn't normal anymore.

# ? Jul 25, 2017 01:29

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# ? May 11, 2024 06:33

VitalSigns: Sep 3, 2011; Can't post for 33 hours!

WhiskeyJuvenile posted:

that's an interesting reading of my posts

Uh-huh. Do you even believe any of the poo poo you say.

Yesterday you tried the same tired argument that every anti-single-payer advocate on this board has been trying for weeks "oh we just can't do it because of a ballot initiative, just impossible sorry." And every time it's explained to yall that of all the challenges to CA single payer this is the easiest issue to resolve because ballot initiatives can be superseded or repealed by subsequent ones, and bills can have language in them to suspend them subject to the approval of such an initiative etc etc, but yall never withdraw the objection. You just kinda pretend you didn't hear and talk about something else until some time goes by that you think everyone forgot then you bring it up again "oh did u know this ballot initiative makes it impossible sorry."

Idk man, kinda feels like if these were genuine objections and problems you want to solve, you'd discuss solutions instead of just lazily bringing up problems and ignoring the answers. Throwing out debunked poo poo over and over just seems like seizing on any excuse to try to muddle the issue and confuse people into giving up.

# ? Jul 25, 2017 01:41

VitalSigns: Sep 3, 2011; Can't post for 33 hours!

The Kingfish posted:

You do that poo poo constantly. You posted the same way about Bernie during the primary

E: fishmech too. It was his signature move:

"Bernie is a hack who doesn't know how the sausage is made.

Also, he isn't a Marxist-Leninist so it's not even about who is the real candidate of the Left."

"Full communism now is just going too far, you'll never get it. You purist leftists need to learn to compromise!"
"Okay we'll take universal healthcare and education, fair trade agreements, robust anti-trust, and outlawing the ways employers suppress union formation"
:fishmech:

"Pfft those half-measures won't fix everything, don't you faux leftists realize the only viable solution is full communism now? You've betrayed your cause and can't be trusted, now we'll just have to pass most of the GOP wishlist."

# ? Jul 25, 2017 01:49

Mister Facetious: Apr 21, 2007; I think I died and woke up in L.A.,
I don't know how I wound up in this place...

VitalSigns posted:

"Full communism now is just going too far, you'll never get it. You purist leftists need to learn to compromise!"
"Okay we'll take universal healthcare and education, fair trade agreements, robust anti-trust, and outlawing the ways employers suppress union formation"
"Pfft those half-measures won't fix everything, don't you faux leftists realize the only viable solution is full communism now? You've betrayed your cause and can't be trusted, now we'll just have to pass most of the GOP wishlist."

This is why Amergin was the only fun gimmick poster; he'd just copy and paste right wing talking points and then watch goons tear them apart like hyenas on meat, but didn't go out of his way to be an antagonistic rear end.

# ? Jul 25, 2017 01:51

Communist Zombie: Nov 1, 2011

Wasnt the democratic platform/plan for the midterms supposed to drop today, what happened with that?

# ? Jul 25, 2017 02:09

WhiskeyJuvenile: Feb 15, 2002; by Nyc_Tattoo

Communist Zombie posted:

Wasnt the democratic platform/plan for the midterms supposed to drop today, what happened with that?

it sucked op

# ? Jul 25, 2017 02:18

Jizz Festival: Oct 30, 2012; Lipstick Apathy

Communist Zombie posted:

Wasnt the democratic platform/plan for the midterms supposed to drop today, what happened with that?

They're apparently not discussing the actual details until "later."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/loca...m=.f14db9965e3a

quote:

Democrats� proposals are designed to appeal to middle-class workers � ways to lower prescription drug prices and provide more federal funding for apprenticeships and job training, and more aggressive monitoring of proposed corporate mergers � all poll-tested ideas that they think will win back voters who supported Trump last year.

�It�s not enough to just identify the problem,� said Van Hollen, who as chairman of the Democratic Senatorial Campaign Committee is in charge of preserving Democratic seats next year and trying to increase their number. �It�s not enough to simply analyze and empathize. We have to put forward bold solutions.�

Democrats said they would discuss specific legislation later, and Schumer did not answer a question from a resident who urged the party to push back against efforts to revive the Depression-era banking regulations of the Glass-Steagall Act.

# ? Jul 25, 2017 02:19

spacetoaster: Feb 10, 2014

Communist Zombie posted:

Wasnt the democratic platform/plan for the midterms supposed to drop today, what happened with that?

They have just copied Donald Trump's slogans for jobs and prosperity for the people. It's MAGA without saying MAGA.

# ? Jul 25, 2017 02:21

Sneakster: Jul 13, 2017; by R. Guyovich

Jizz Festival posted:

They're apparently not discussing the actual details until "later."

I really, really, really hope they got a glimpse of how people were reacting and are rapidly considering offering decent anything.

# ? Jul 25, 2017 02:23

Kobayashi: Aug 13, 2004; by Nyc_Tattoo

Sneakster posted:

I really, really, really hope they got a glimpse of how people were reacting and are rapidly considering offering decent anything.

Ahahahahahahahaha

# ? Jul 25, 2017 02:43

rudatron: May 31, 2011; by Fluffdaddy

Forget gorilla mindset, its time to upgrade ti the ~criminal mindset~.

# ? Jul 25, 2017 02:44

Syenite: Jun 21, 2011; Grimey Drawer

If they don't propose actual leftist policies I will grab someone off the street and scream at them until I pass out.

# ? Jul 25, 2017 02:53

The Kingfish: Oct 21, 2015

Sneakster posted:

I really, really, really hope they got a glimpse of how people were reacting and are rapidly considering offering decent anything.

Remember how Hillary's new campaign slogan/theme kept "leaking" and each one was terrible and never actually released?

It's that.

# ? Jul 25, 2017 02:55

Communist Zombie: Nov 1, 2011

Jizz Festival posted:

They're apparently not discussing the actual details until "later."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/loca...m=.f14db9965e3a

Man, the democrats just keep finding new ways to be disappointing. :sigh:

# ? Jul 25, 2017 03:02

Kokoro Wish: Jul 23, 2007; Post? What post? Oh wow.
I had nothing to do with THAT.

Meanwhile, Bernie's put out a costed "Medicare-For-All" plan that'll make the Dems look really loving terrible if they don't go along with something close to it. I'm starting to get the feeling that if this doesn't finally drag them over the line, then Bernie might be outskies.

Kokoro Wish fucked around with this message at 03:23 on Jul 25, 2017

# ? Jul 25, 2017 03:20

Sneakster: Jul 13, 2017; by R. Guyovich

rudatron posted:

Forget gorilla mindset, its time to upgrade ti the ~criminal mindset~.

God help's those who help themselves. I'd make great socially inclusive HR recruitment videos.

Paying industry posted:

"My family came here as refugees during the war, and we struggled, but we were able to achieve the American Dream. Here at Northrop Grumman, I work on guided bombing systems, and it really feels like we're a family here, that I matter, like my work really gets to make an impact."

It would be very affirming and inspirational. Its not like murdering people for money is immoral if its not illegal.

Communist Zombie posted:

Man, the democrats just keep finding new ways to be disappointing.

To you or to Aetna?

The Kingfish posted:

Remember how Hillary's new campaign slogan/theme kept "leaking" and each one was terrible and never actually released?

It's that.

"Schumer" posted:

"How the heck did we let Exxon and Mobil merge?" he said. "And that was Democrats."

He sounds so sleazy, like an insurance salesman or something...

# ? Jul 25, 2017 03:25

Crowsbeak: Oct 9, 2012; by Azathoth; Lipstick Apathy

Mister Facetious posted:

This is why Amergin was the only fun gimmick poster; he'd just copy and paste right wing talking points and then watch goons tear them apart like hyenas on meat, but didn't go out of his way to be an antagonistic rear end.

What ever happened to him?

# ? Jul 25, 2017 04:09

Futuresight: Oct 11, 2012; IT'S ALL TURNED TO SHIT!

Glad to see the democrats dug deep and found within themselves the ability to finally pursue and earn the votes of... the middle class.

loving

# ? Jul 25, 2017 04:40

Sephyr: Aug 28, 2012

Crowsbeak posted:

What ever happened to him?

My guess is that he felt unecessary from all the freaked-out liberals stealing his schtick.

# ? Jul 25, 2017 04:40

Kilroy: Oct 1, 2000

call to action posted:

Mark my words, that Scaramucci tweet will prove prophetic. The GOP is in prime territory to triangulate - if they got rid of their hatred of women and LGBT people message (obviously in word, not deed) they'd be able to win the majority of the "fiscally conservative, socially liberal" useful idiots out there.

If they do that then they aren't the party of fascist white supremacy anymore. I mean they'll still boil us alive with their lovely environmental policies, but the Democrats are going to do that, too. If nothing else it would decrease the risk of being burned alive in ovens before the Earth kills us all. I guess I'd take it.

Kilroy fucked around with this message at 08:03 on Jul 25, 2017

# ? Jul 25, 2017 08:01

Sneakster: Jul 13, 2017; by R. Guyovich

Kilroy posted:

If they do that then they aren't the party of fascist white supremacy anymore. I mean they'll still boil us alive with their lovely environmental policies, but the Democrats are going to do that, too. If nothing else it would decrease the risk of being burned alive in ovens before the Earth kills us all. I guess I'd take it.

They cannot do that. In the south their power comes from being the party of the white people.

# ? Jul 25, 2017 08:13

VitalSigns: Sep 3, 2011; Can't post for 33 hours!

That will never happen because capitalism is so hilariously unpopular that they needed to become the party of white supremacy and religious fundamentalism in order to get votes from anyone outside the top 10%.

Americans don't want to be ground into hamburger and fed to the rich. You can do it to them anyway, but you have to trick them into thinking that you're on their side because you're both white and when you talk about killing the poor you mean only the darker poor and the things you take away from the nonwhites will be given to them.

# ? Jul 25, 2017 08:28

Avirosb: Nov 21, 2016; Everyone makes pisstakes

Futuresight posted:

Glad to see the democrats dug deep and found within themselves the ability to finally pursue and earn the votes of... the middle class.

loving

The middle class have the president they deserve.

# ? Jul 25, 2017 10:39

Kokoro Wish: Jul 23, 2007; Post? What post? Oh wow.
I had nothing to do with THAT.

Democrats and Republicans, hand in hand, are also now about to scupper one of Obama's legit good things, The Iran Deal, under the guise of getting tough(er) on Russia with even more sanctions. But sure let's just roll Iran into that like the Neo-Cons want, despite Iran holding up every part of their end of the Iran deal.

Who can't wait for even more Cold War II: Nuclear Boogaloo.

# ? Jul 25, 2017 10:44

EatinCake: Oct 21, 2008

Spent some time back in my home town, and became increasingly depressed with how many buddies said with large smiles about how while they regret Trump winning, they definitely could never vote for Clinton. Most of them admit to never looking at her policies, & have mentioned they haven't paid much attention to recent politics given Trump fatigue.

I also looked online for some concrete Dem positions, and found the best source of that atm is Clinton's site. The DNC has a wishlist, but not much else- which makes some sense to me- they don't have any power in any facet of the gov. Hard to say how you'd fix things when you don't have a branch to work with.

# ? Jul 25, 2017 14:02

Rent-A-Cop: Oct 15, 2004; I posted my food for USPOL Thanksgiving!

EatinCake posted:

Hard to say how you'd fix things when you don't have a branch to work with.

No it loving isn't.

Even now, when there is absolutely no chance they might have to actually do anything, the Democrats can't articulate s progressive policy for fear that a bank somewhere might be offended.

"Elect us add we'll figure it out from there" isn't a policy.

# ? Jul 25, 2017 14:57

D.N. Nation: Feb 1, 2012

Condiv posted:

as opposed to the dems who haven't done anything of note since november 8th

har har, lol dems, Hamala Karris.

My friend, I want Our Revolution to be more than it is. I'm not opposed to it. But when my local one can't rear end itself to get moving on anything*, I'm going to criticize. Yes, yes, Online Solidarity, don't let the neolibs see us fight, I'm a traitor to leftism, etc., etc. Christ.

"Know why the Dems suck? All they say is 'we're better than Republicans'."
mild criticism of a leftist group
"YEAH BUT STILL BETTER THAN DEMS"

* That's not fair of me, they supported a DSA candidate who got elected in a bipartisan city council in a newly created small town, so yay.

# ? Jul 25, 2017 15:39

Ornedan: Nov 4, 2009; Cybernetic Crumb

For an example, the Congressional Progressive Caucus have proposed a budget. They're not numerous enough to pass it by themselves, but that didn't stop them.

# ? Jul 25, 2017 15:40

NewForumSoftware: Oct 8, 2016; by Lowtax

D.N. Nation posted:

But when my local one can't rear end itself to get moving on anything*, I'm going to criticize.

* That's not fair of me, they supported a DSA candidate who got elected in a bipartisan city council in a newly created small town, so yay.

So basically you're making unfair criticism (by your own words) and then are surprised when people tell you your criticism is unfair.

Real thinker on our hands here.

# ? Jul 25, 2017 15:43

D.N. Nation: Feb 1, 2012

If I added a "whoop-de-loving-do" on the end of that post, would you have gotten it?

# ? Jul 25, 2017 15:49

Matt Zerella: Oct 7, 2002; Norris'es are back baby. It's good again. Awoouu (fox Howl)

D.N. Nation posted:

har har, lol dems, Hamala Karris.

My friend, I want Our Revolution to be more than it is. I'm not opposed to it. But when my local one can't rear end itself to get moving on anything*, I'm going to criticize. Yes, yes, Online Solidarity, don't let the neolibs see us fight, I'm a traitor to leftism, etc., etc. Christ.

"Know why the Dems suck? All they say is 'we're better than Republicans'."
mild criticism of a leftist group
"YEAH BUT STILL BETTER THAN DEMS"

* That's not fair of me, they supported a DSA candidate who got elected in a bipartisan city council in a newly created small town, so yay.

Our Revolution was not great but I have hope for them with Nina in charge. But yes, the DSA has been way more successful at actually getting people elected into local govt, which right now is pretty important since the party has basically been rotting for the last 10 years.

# ? Jul 25, 2017 15:49

temple: Jul 29, 2006; I have actual skeletons in my closet

EatinCake posted:

Spent some time back in my home town, and became increasingly depressed with how many buddies said with large smiles about how while they regret Trump winning, they definitely could never vote for Clinton. Most of them admit to never looking at her policies, & have mentioned they haven't paid much attention to recent politics given Trump fatigue.

Everyone saw this coming.

# ? Jul 25, 2017 15:50

Kilroy: Oct 1, 2000

Sneakster posted:

They cannot do that. In the south their power comes from being the party of the white people.

Oh sure, I know that. I'm just saying it would be an improvement, and while it wouldn't convince me to vote for them by a long shot, I'd still welcome the change.

# ? Jul 25, 2017 15:53

Glambags: Dec 28, 2003

Matt Zerella posted:

Our Revolution was not great but I have hope for them with Nina in charge. But yes, the DSA has been way more successful at actually getting people elected into local govt, which right now is pretty important since the party has basically been rotting for the last 10 years.

Hey is there any relationship between dsa and working families, I wonder if there is any overlap.

# ? Jul 25, 2017 16:10

WhiskeyJuvenile: Feb 15, 2002; by Nyc_Tattoo

Glambags posted:

Hey is there any relationship between dsa and working families, I wonder if there is any overlap.

yes

# ? Jul 25, 2017 16:13

Matt Zerella: Oct 7, 2002; Norris'es are back baby. It's good again. Awoouu (fox Howl)

Glambags posted:

Hey is there any relationship between dsa and working families, I wonder if there is any overlap.

There is: http://www.keywiki.org/Working_Families_Party#DSA_involvement

The DSA also works with New Kings Democrats, they're both actively knocking on doors for El-Yateem in Brooklyn

http://gothamist.com/2017/07/20/el_yateem_bay_ridge_dsa.php

I voted in November under the WFP, and I always will. I'd love to see them get good challengers together for Cuomo, Schumer, and Gillibrand because all three of them suck rear end.

# ? Jul 25, 2017 16:16

WhiskeyJuvenile: Feb 15, 2002; by Nyc_Tattoo

Matt Zerella posted:

There is: http://www.keywiki.org/Working_Families_Party#DSA_involvement

The DSA also works with New Kings Democrats, they're both actively knocking on doors for El-Yateem in Brooklyn

http://gothamist.com/2017/07/20/el_yateem_bay_ridge_dsa.php

I voted in November under the WFP, and I always will. I'd love to see them get good challengers together for Cuomo, Schumer, and Gillibrand because all three of them suck rear end.

love too cite keywiki

# ? Jul 25, 2017 16:19

Matt Zerella: Oct 7, 2002; Norris'es are back baby. It's good again. Awoouu (fox Howl)

WhiskeyJuvenile posted:

love too cite keywiki

I mean, yeah, but this is pretty innocuous and just some information about overlap of the two orgs.

# ? Jul 25, 2017 16:28

Democrazy: Oct 16, 2008; If you're not willing to lick the boot, then really why are you in politics lol? Everything is a cycle of just getting stomped on so why do you want to lose to it over and over, just submit like me, I'm very intelligent.

It would be pretty neat if the Democrats' new message of economic progress mentioned supporting unions. That would be so, so cool.

# ? Jul 25, 2017 17:17

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# ? May 11, 2024 06:33

Matt Zerella: Oct 7, 2002; Norris'es are back baby. It's good again. Awoouu (fox Howl)

Democrazy posted:

It would be pretty neat if the Democrats' new message of economic progress mentioned supporting unions. That would be so, so cool.

Their donors won't allow it.

# ? Jul 25, 2017 17:20

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