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fallenturtle posted:I think your above references were not him being earnest. He just looks like a dumbass not taking the Holocaust or Nazis serious enough. He's clearly immature and likes to try to be edgy. I think you can legitimately give people the benefit of the doubt when they give you cause to do so. However, the current environment is that white supremacists are repeatedly saying racist poo poo and then thinly covering it up by saying "it's just a joke". In that context, anyone who repeats this behaviour can probably be lumped in with them without losing too much sleep over it. At worst, you labelled an enabler as a true believer, and that's not a really serious difference these days.
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Jul 25, 2017 20:51
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Deified Data posted:"A guy got in trouble for making his dog sieg heil, truly this is the death of discourse" I thought we stopped allowing the "just following orders" defense for that poo poo decades ago.
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Jul 25, 2017 20:57
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WampaLord posted:So you agree that bigoted "black humor" is totally unacceptable? No, my opinion on it remains unchanged. I think it heavily based on context, speaker, and audience (like I mentioned in my post about the 3 situations). I think its wrong when its come from a person who is not a member of the group its bigoted towards and the audience is the general public.
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Jul 25, 2017 20:59
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WampaLord posted:There's a million other things he could have put there to be "edgy" without specifically calling for death to all Jews. I calls em like I sees em. You confuse lack of originality with bigotry.
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Jul 25, 2017 20:59
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Midig posted:You confuse lack of originality with bigotry. He could have picked literally anything else, Midig. A meme, a nonsense thing, "Death to all unicorns!" He chose that specific phrase for a reason.
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Jul 25, 2017 21:00
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WampaLord posted:He could have picked literally anything else, Midig. A meme, a nonsense thing, "Death to all unicorns!" It would not be edgy. Edginess comes from a lack of originality. They let a sore subject matter make up for the fact that the joke is otherwise bad.
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Jul 25, 2017 21:03
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Who What Now posted:I wouldn't say you'll be shunned, but you'll probably be known as "the guy who goes to bat to say that bigoted jokes are cool and good" for a while. Well if I can correct the record it should be "the guy who goes to bat to saying that bigoted jokes can be funny in very specific situations"
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Jul 25, 2017 21:04
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Midig posted:You confuse lack of originality with bigotry. You really want to go down the PDP rabbit hole again after you got shamed about it last time?
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Jul 25, 2017 21:06
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Goon Danton posted:He paid people to hold up signs with anti-semitic slogans. That is quite literally endorsing anti-semitic views. Sponsoring them even. quote:Just so we're clear, are you saying you agree with the opinions of the posters in this thread, or with the opinions of the youtubers we post?
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Jul 25, 2017 21:09
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fallenturtle posted:And I think that's missing his point. He wasn't attempting to sponsor those views, he was attempting to use those views to shock because they are shocking views. "Attempting" doesn't matter. Intent doesn't matter. Actions matter. He did an anti-Semitic thing.
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Jul 25, 2017 21:10
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WampaLord posted:"Attempting" doesn't matter. Intent doesn't matter. I will remember to talk poo poo to people who bump into me on the street. They intentionally accidently walked into me and I gotta call them out on it.
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Jul 25, 2017 21:14
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WampaLord posted:Ah, the "If he wasn't actually killing Jews while yelling 'I am killing you because you are Jewish and I loving hate Jews,' then it's okay!" defense. he is jewish i believe or was raised in a jewish family. he hates lakud/israel because its a loving apartheid state. he doesnt hate jews.
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Jul 25, 2017 21:14
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Deified Data posted:I have friends who think casual racism and misogyny is "dark humor" and I can't wait for that mindset to die a quick death. Deffo deserves jail time for that I made my dog learn to bark the 14 words in morse code. How much jail time shall I receive?
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Jul 25, 2017 21:15
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Midig posted:I will remember to talk poo poo to people who bump into me on the street. They intentionally accidently walked into me and I gotta call them out on it. Felix did not accidentally pay people money to say "Kill the Jews" you loving dipshit.
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Jul 25, 2017 21:16
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Midig posted:I will remember to talk poo poo to people who bump into me on the street. They intentionally accidently walked into me and I gotta call them out on it.  Dapper_Swindler posted:he is jewish i believe or was raised in a jewish family. he hates lakud/israel because its a loving apartheid state. he doesnt hate jews. I'm going to need a hell of a source for this. Please prove to me that he is Jewish. 
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Jul 25, 2017 21:17
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Who What Now posted:Maybe you should watch it again, because you apparently missed every point she made in it and are now arguing the exact opposite. I disagree. I believe what I've been trying to say is that there is a place for this type of humor, but you have to be careful and know what you're doing if you want to pull it off. What she doesn't get into, as I recall, but that is my point with PDP, is that sometimes those who dabble in transgressive humor fail, but just because they fail doesn't necessarily mean they are a Nazi, a racist, etc.
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Jul 25, 2017 21:18
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Midig posted:I will remember to talk poo poo to people who bump into me on the street. They intentionally accidently walked into me and I gotta call them out on it. That wacky PDP, he fell down some stairs and accidentally sent money to some people with specific instructions to write "death to all jews" on a piece of paper. What absurd thing will totally unintentionally happen to him next?
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Jul 25, 2017 21:18
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Pembroke Fuse posted:If he's ignorant of the seriousness of rape, it's sort of his responsibility to educate himself and walk back his bullshit... or come off as someone who's pro-rape. I guess I would be willing to give someone the benefit of the doubt if they were trying to figure poo poo out, but there is no evidence that he's anything except a shitlord who either supports the positions he spouts or doesn't care about the damage that they do. In that case, having his reputation in the gutter is the least he deserves. I agree.
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Jul 25, 2017 21:19
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Dapper_Swindler posted:he is jewish i believe or was raised in a jewish family. Citation please, because he was born in Sweden and lives in the UK now.
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Jul 25, 2017 21:19
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"Aw dang, I accidentally dropped something that accidentally hit the keys on my keyboard to send money through PayPal to a company to have them parrot hate speech! What an improbable series of events this is!" -Something Midig thinks actually happened IRL
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Jul 25, 2017 21:19
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Who What Now posted:Felix did not accidentally pay people money to say "Kill the Jews" you loving dipshit. The point is that intent matters, yo. Is a man who douses a place with oil and throws down a lighter the same thing as a guy who is irresponsible with sigarettes? Edit: loving lol at the way people interpret this. Midig fucked around with this message at 21:23 on Jul 25, 2017 |
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Jul 25, 2017 21:19
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WampaLord posted:
oh poo poo i am sorry. for some hosed up reason i misread the thread and i assume chapo felix bettermen. not pewdiepie. yeah i think is probaly bigoted against jews but i think its probaly a "lol /pol/ told me about it" then genuine nazi/anti semite beliefs. and no he isnt funny.
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Jul 25, 2017 21:20
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Goon Danton posted:Um excuse me sir, it is pretty presumptive for you to assume a joke is a bigot just because of its content. You need to really get to know the joke in order to make a judgment about how it feels. I just call em like I see em.
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Jul 25, 2017 21:21
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Midig posted:The point is that intent matters, yo. Is a man who douses a place with oil and throws down a lighter the same thing as a guy who is irresponsible with sigaretter? Was this hypothetical man smoking his cigarette in the middle of a drought ridden forest during July?
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Jul 25, 2017 21:21
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fallenturtle posted:That's pretty tasteless. I don't think there's a meaningful enough distinction between the two.
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Jul 25, 2017 21:22
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Who What Now posted:What's your foolproof way of differentiating between jokes you don't mean, and jokes that you earnestly believe in? There is no foolproof way. But when I refer to earnest comments I'm referring specifically to comments that aren't jokes.
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Jul 25, 2017 21:22
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Midig posted:The point is that intent matters, yo. Is a man who douses a place with oil and throws down a lighter the same thing as a guy who is irresponsible with sigarettes? They would both be charged with arson.
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Jul 25, 2017 21:23
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Avenging_Mikon posted:"Uh...poo poo, this guy's actually doing Nazi poo poo a lot...uh..uh... HE'S JUST BEING EDGY, I'M SICK OF DEFENDING HIM." That's not at all what I said. It has to do with intent, not frequency.
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Jul 25, 2017 21:24
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WampaLord posted:They would both be charged with arson. Would they serve the same amount of time in jail. Would people think they were equally bad as a person?
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Jul 25, 2017 21:24
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fallenturtle posted:I disagree. I believe what I've been trying to say is that there is a place for this type of humor, but you have to be careful and know what you're doing if you want to pull it off. She talks about how transgressive humor and satire needs intent, needs logic, and needs to be making a statement about the thing it is transgressing upon or satirising. So what statement is PDP making about killing Jews, exactly?
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Jul 25, 2017 21:25
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Kibayasu posted:Was this hypothetical man smoking his cigarette in the middle of a drought ridden forest during July? Still rings true with this anecdote. He is incredibly dumb, not malicious.
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Jul 25, 2017 21:26
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Midig posted:Would they serve the same amount of time in jail. Would people think they were equally bad as a person? It's not about "who is worse," they are both arsonists because they both committed arson.. Much like how PewDiePie is an anti-Semite for doing an anti-Semitic thing.
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Jul 25, 2017 21:26
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Who What Now posted:She talks about how transgressive humor and satire needs intent, needs logic, and needs to be making a statement about the thing it is transgressing upon or satirising. So what statement is PDP making about killing Jews, exactly? "People on Fiverr will do or say anything for five dollars".
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Jul 25, 2017 21:27
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Who What Now posted:She talks about how transgressive humor and satire needs intent, needs logic, and needs to be making a statement about the thing it is transgressing upon or satirising. So what statement is PDP making about killing Jews, exactly? "People on Fiverr will do or say anything for five dollars".
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Jul 25, 2017 21:27
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Midig posted:Still rings true with this anecdote. He is incredibly dumb, not malicious. yeah, him and jontron strike me as the same type idiot who just heard enough dumbshit from /pol/ and fans and they just bought into it.
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Jul 25, 2017 21:28
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fallenturtle posted:There is no foolproof way. But when I refer to earnest comments I'm referring specifically to comments that aren't jokes. How can you tell when something isn't a joke when the person can just say that you just don't get their humor? And why does that matter if it's a joke, since you admitted already that jokes can be bigoted and joke-tellers can be too.
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Jul 25, 2017 21:28
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Dapper_Swindler posted:yeah, him and jontron strike me as the same type idiot who just heard enough dumbshit from /pol/ and fans and they just bought into it. Except JonTron shared opinions.... I don't see how this is comparable.
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Jul 25, 2017 21:29
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Midig posted:Except JonTron shared opinions.... I don't see how this is comparable. "Death to all Jews" is an opinion. It's an opinion that you advocate for the death of all Jews.
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Jul 25, 2017 21:30
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Midig posted:"People on Fiverr will do or say anything for five dollars". Then he should have said that, instead of letting his beliefs slip in.
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Jul 25, 2017 21:30
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Midig posted:Would they serve the same amount of time in jail. Would people think they were equally bad as a person? People getting mad at PDP or literally any one else for making a really bad anti-semitic joke isn't exactly putting him on trial at Nuremberg.
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Jul 25, 2017 21:30
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