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Michael Scott posted:Why the hate? What else needs to be said other than Doug Demuro is a loving idiot?
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Jul 26, 2017 05:19
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CAT INTERCEPTOR posted:What else needs to be said other than Doug Demuro is a loving idiot? You shouldn't be a dick and call people names without explaining yourself?
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Jul 26, 2017 06:36
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Sagebrush posted:When any of the traditional manufacturers decide that it's worth their while to make a high-end EV, they'll completely smoke Tesla, because Teslas are pretty much Camrys with an electric drivetrain and a 5-series price tag. Tesla has a huge lead to catch though. Others might do better stitching and more thoughtful cupholders but will they have a supercharger network? Autopilot, or at least a lanekeeper, yeah probably. But an always connected car with constant updates? The i-Pace looks like it will be really good, but assuming it will cost Jag money and not have access to a vast 100+ kW charging network, I'll take the 100 kWh 335 mile Camry please.
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Jul 26, 2017 06:39
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Michael Scott posted:Why the hate? I don't like him because of his low production values, poor jokes and a few times he's whined on Reddit only to turn around and delete the comments
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Jul 26, 2017 06:44
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Ola posted:But an always connected car with constant updates? everyone already does this
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Jul 26, 2017 07:49
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hifi posted:everyone already does this No, everyone does not already do this. OnStar doesn't count, it doesn't update the car's firmware.
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Jul 26, 2017 08:02
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In other news... quote:New diesel and petrol cars and vans will be banned in the UK from 2040 in a bid to tackle air pollution, the government is set to announce. http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-40723581
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Jul 26, 2017 08:05
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CAT INTERCEPTOR posted:When it is outside anything close to what you are used to producing, yes it is. The Gigafactory also isn't just there to supply Tesla either. Why would a car company build a giant battery factory when they can just ask LG to do it? If the demand is there, the companies that currently build batteries for everything from smartphones to trains will ramp up capacity. Ola posted:Tesla has a huge lead to catch though. Others might do better stitching and more thoughtful cupholders but will they have a supercharger network? Autopilot, or at least a lanekeeper, yeah probably. But an always connected car with constant updates? I get the feeling that charging network is going to become a lot less valuable if the Model 3 actually takes off. Wait times of an hour long have already been reported in LA charging stations. Gamesguy fucked around with this message at 09:36 on Jul 26, 2017 |
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Jul 26, 2017 09:32
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Ola posted:No, everyone does not already do this. OnStar doesn't count, it doesn't update the car's firmware. That's because of US dealer contracts which forbid OEMs from doing that without offering them a cut.
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Jul 26, 2017 09:34
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Michael Scott posted:You shouldn't be a dick and call people names without explaining yourself? I dont need an explaination to call you an idiot. You just made that example yourself Gamesguy posted:Why would a car company build a giant battery factory when they can just ask LG to do it? The sole reason why Tesla greenfielded the Gigafactory alongside Panasonic is that no one could get close to supply for what they wanted - to get a handle on the scale here, Tesla's demands for batteries will equal the entire world 2013 supply. China might be ramping up itself but you are still talking about 5 years in the future before anyone has the capcity to volume supply for cars like Tesla is ramping up to - The Koreans and Japanese other than Panasonic due to the partnership with Tesla are in no position to get anywhere close. How is any other car maker going to get supply when Tesla and the Chinese are going to corner the market for themselves - and not just the batteries themselves, but the input resources.
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Jul 26, 2017 10:04
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Gamesguy posted:
i-Pace starting prices have been reported from £60k to $100k. The S75 currently starts at $69,500 and now comes with air suspension and some of the LED lighting from the premium package as standard. 100D starts at $97500. I think the $5000 autopilot package is a must, so add that. We'll see how they compare soon enough. Gamesguy posted:I get the feeling that charging network is going to become a lot less valuable if the Model 3 actually takes off. Wait times of an hour long have already been reported in LA charging stations. If they don't expand it, sure. If they do, as they've said, it will be be better. If you are trying to go cross country in a 90 kWh i-Pace charging only from <50 kWh CCS/CHAdeMO, a mere hour's wait will seem quite attractive. But it does give some pause to think how many charging stations really are required to go full EV.
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Jul 26, 2017 10:42
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I only stumbled into learning of the existence of this car while shopping around for plug-in hybrids. Used ones are already $25-30k!
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Jul 26, 2017 10:59
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Listen, I didn't face ten long tours against the goddamn 'bots to come back home and lift baby weights.
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Ola posted:But it does give some pause to think how many charging stations really are required to go full EV. An utterly ridiculous number that would destroy the entire United States' current electrical grid. Tesla has a goal of hitting 350kW in their chargers. For a point of comparison, a single gas pump dispenses chemical energy at a rate of about 4-5 megawatts.
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Jul 26, 2017 11:07
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Dem Bones posted:I only stumbled into learning of the existence of this car while shopping around for plug-in hybrids. Used ones are already $25-30k! It's really a decent car that was just HORRENDOUSLY mis-marketed/mis-targeted. Sticker on a new one was north of $70k, which is a loving joke.
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Jul 26, 2017 11:19
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Sagebrush posted:An utterly ridiculous number that would destroy the entire United States' current electrical grid. Ok, so the US will probably fail. But it will work over here, that's what matters to me. But I don't think EVs will ever match the recharge rate of gas. Most new paradigms lose some of the old paradigm's advantages, we'll get over it.
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Jul 26, 2017 11:22
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CAT INTERCEPTOR posted:The sole reason why Tesla greenfielded the Gigafactory alongside Panasonic is that no one could get close to supply for what they wanted - to get a handle on the scale here, Tesla's demands for batteries will equal the entire world 2013 supply. China might be ramping up itself but you are still talking about 5 years in the future before anyone has the capcity to volume supply for cars like Tesla is ramping up to - The Koreans and Japanese other than Panasonic due to the partnership with Tesla are in no position to get anywhere close. How is any other car maker going to get supply when Tesla and the Chinese are going to corner the market for themselves - and not just the batteries themselves, but the input resources. The 35 GWh gigafactory is big, but it is by no means dominant player in the lithium-ion battery production market.  
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Jul 26, 2017 12:25
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drgitlin posted:That's because of US dealer contracts which forbid OEMs from doing that without offering them a cut. Yeah, was going to post that very link. I don't see that changing any time soon, personally.
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Jul 26, 2017 12:32
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Sagebrush posted:An utterly ridiculous number that would destroy the entire United States' current electrical grid. The usage scenario isn't the same as gas pumps. You don't always leave your house with a full tank of gas because you can fill up at home like you do with electric cars.
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Jul 26, 2017 13:17
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Subjunctive posted:Yeah, was going to post that very link. I don't see that changing any time soon, personally. You are correct. You would not believe how much influence car dealers overall have with state and local governments. I have no doubts that if GM could get away with offering cars directly it would. CAT INTERCEPTOR posted:What else needs to be said other than Doug Demuro is a loving idiot? The price tag and some of the complaints about the ELR were certainly true. However, at one point he was complaining about the gas engine being under powered. The Volt and ELR both always keep enough electric power to assist you for most points where you would need > 83hp. The only place outside of this would be driving in the mountains where you had an extremely long high grade uphill. HFX fucked around with this message at 16:01 on Jul 26, 2017 |
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Jul 26, 2017 15:55
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Car dealers fund local high school sports, and as such control the world. They also are the main donors to state reps etc. All funded by GM marketing contributions, lol funding their own inability to ship direct.
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Jul 26, 2017 16:00
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If GM wanted to buy out their dealers it would cost a ridiculous amount of money. If they were somehow legally allowed to start up a parallel direct network it would also be extremely expensive. The dealer model is useful in that it shifts low return capital off GM's books and allows them to recognize revenue for cars and parts in advance of customer need. It also allows them to deliver service without accepting liability. I have heard quite a few interesting stories about Tesla's inability to deliver service even in markets where they have service presence, and that is always going to be a challenge in a direct sales model.
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Jul 26, 2017 16:07
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Gamesguy posted:Wait times of an hour long have already been reported in LA charging stations. Maybe in the Bay Area? I've never waited over 30 minutes at Culver City, Burbank or even the worst offender San Juan Capistrano. They are tripling SCs in SoCal. Culver City added a bunch as well as the new ones going up in Calabasas and Burbank mall.
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Jul 26, 2017 16:13
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It'll be interesting to see how demand changes as the Model 3 rolls out even with limited free supercharging.
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Jul 26, 2017 16:41
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My local Tesla showroom is going from 8 stalls to 20. They are rapidly adding capacity. And most charging should be at home anyway. ilkhan fucked around with this message at 17:56 on Jul 26, 2017 |
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Jul 26, 2017 17:47
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:It'll be interesting to see how demand changes as the Model 3 rolls out even with limited free supercharging. Luckily CA requires landlords to install chargers or outlets (at the resident's cost) unless it poses a structural deficit to the structure. SoCal Edison and LADWP both offer money to get said chargers installed as well, depending on what charger and cost of install you can come out pretty close to even. SoCal Edison just gave all EV owners an additional $400 as well. The money is there.
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Jul 26, 2017 17:49
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MrYenko posted:It's really a decent car that was just HORRENDOUSLY mis-marketed/mis-targeted. Sticker on a new one was north of $70k, which is a loving joke. I don't know how it's doing but they are trying again with a plugin variant of the ct6
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Jul 26, 2017 18:30
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Jimong5 posted:I don't know how it's doing but they are trying again with a plugin variant of the ct6 Any more info?
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Jul 26, 2017 18:34
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HFX posted:..... The only place outside of this would be driving in the mountains where you had an extremely long high grade uphill..... And both the Volt and ELR have "Mountain Mode" specifically for this. It will hold a larger portion of battery in reserve for long elevation climbs. And if the battery is not already charged up to this hold point when Mountain Mode is engaged, it will start and run the generator to charge it up to that point. For the Gen 2, the manual recommends enabling Mountain Mode approx 15 minutes before you start a long and steep climb if the battery is not charged.
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Jul 26, 2017 19:41
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stevewm posted:And both the Volt and ELR have "Mountain Mode" specifically for this. It will hold a larger portion of battery in reserve for long elevation climbs. And if the battery is not already charged up to this hold point when Mountain Mode is engaged, it will start and run the generator to charge it up to that point. For the Gen 2, the manual recommends enabling Mountain Mode approx 15 minutes before you start a long and steep climb if the battery is not charged. That's pretty cool!
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Jul 26, 2017 19:52
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The Sicilian posted:Any more info? http://m.cadillac.com/hybrids/ct6-plug-in.html Seems a lot like the volt except with a lot more under the hood
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Jul 26, 2017 19:55
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Wait, let's talk cup holders again. Since last August at least, the S has come with holders in the console area where an on-the-floor shifter would be in another car. I don't use them because I don't drink in the car often and I want the storage space (they're configurable), but I did when I first got the car and they were fine. Are those the holders that people are objecting to? E: 
Subjunctive fucked around with this message at 20:10 on Jul 26, 2017 |
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Jul 26, 2017 20:07
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Subjunctive posted:
No, I think those are a fair compromise. Not so good for small cardboard cups, but ok for bigger plastic or metal ones. The annoying ones are under the elbow rest. Perhaps better suited for storing coiled up USB wires, RFID charging tokens etc. The center console was an expensive accessory at first, then came standard. I think in the beginning they wanted to highlight the flat floor and lack of transmission tunnel, so the elbow rest cup holders and storage in general got a lot of complaints.
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Jul 26, 2017 21:15
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CAT INTERCEPTOR posted:The sole reason why Tesla greenfielded the Gigafactory alongside Panasonic is that no one could get close to supply for what they wanted - to get a handle on the scale here, Tesla's demands for batteries will equal the entire world 2013 supply. China might be ramping up itself but you are still talking about 5 years in the future before anyone has the capcity to volume supply for cars like Tesla is ramping up to - The Koreans and Japanese other than Panasonic due to the partnership with Tesla are in no position to get anywhere close. How is any other car maker going to get supply when Tesla and the Chinese are going to corner the market for themselves - and not just the batteries themselves, but the input resources. Plus there are rumors out of China that a massive price slash from their battery supplies are imminent due to pressure from their own EV manufacturers. Ola posted:i-Pace starting prices have been reported from £60k to $100k. The S75 currently starts at $69,500 and now comes with air suspension and some of the LED lighting from the premium package as standard. 100D starts at $97500. I think the $5000 autopilot package is a must, so add that. We'll see how they compare soon enough. The XJ starts at ~$80k and the i-pace will almost certainly slot in right next to that as a flagship SUV. And let's be real here, most Tesla sold have a ton of options on them. The average price of the Model S is right about $100k according to Tesla's financial reports. Tesla is in an interesting place. It attracted a lot of people who can't really afford the price and stretched their finances to purchase a Tesla, those people will certainly be going for a Model 3 instead once it becomes available. quote:If they don't expand it, sure. If they do, as they've said, it will be be better. If you are trying to go cross country in a 90 kWh i-Pace charging only from <50 kWh CCS/CHAdeMO, a mere hour's wait will seem quite attractive. But it does give some pause to think how many charging stations really are required to go full EV. Gamesguy fucked around with this message at 00:21 on Jul 27, 2017 |
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Jul 27, 2017 00:11
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Gamesguy posted:And let's be real here, most Tesla sold have a ton of options on them. Oh sure, I was just comparing apples to apples as best I could since starting price is what's been mentioned in i-Pace articles.(but with the recent option shuffle, autopilot is all you really need) And while the shoppers you mention certainly will love it, I think a great EV will expand Jaguar's customer base. Many option loaded Teslas have been bought by people who'd never consider a car above $50k
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Jul 27, 2017 00:24
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Ola posted:Oh sure, I was just comparing apples to apples as best I could since starting price is what's been mentioned in i-Pace articles.(but with the recent option shuffle, autopilot is all you really need) And while the shoppers you mention certainly will love it, I think a great EV will expand Jaguar's customer base. Many option loaded Teslas have been bought by people who'd never consider a car above $50k Yeah the i-pace is clearly targeted at people who would traditionally be driving Range Rovers but are now considering the Model X.
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Jul 27, 2017 00:29
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Gamesguy posted:Yeah the i-pace is clearly targeted at people who would traditionally be driving Range Rovers but are now considering the Model X. Love that loving I-Pace. In fact I would take that over the model X any day. Sorry Elon, I really hate the falcon wing doors.
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Jul 27, 2017 18:49
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Those doors are why I didn't get an X when I had to replace my S. I wouldn't have gone X for certain, but the doors took it immediately off the table.
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Jul 27, 2017 19:05
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Subjunctive posted:Those doors are why I didn't get an X when I had to replace my S. I wouldn't have gone X for certain, but the doors took it immediately off the table. I'm 6'10" and barely fit in the S, luckily I'm all torso or I would be hosed. I'm eagerly waiting the years out model Y which won't have those doors.
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Jul 27, 2017 20:05
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The Sicilian posted:I'm 6'10" and barely fit in the S, luckily I'm all torso or I would be hosed. I'm eagerly waiting the years out model Y which won't have those doors. Sicilian! We can't PM but I want to ask about something. Can you email me at michaelscottsa@gmail.com ? 
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Jul 27, 2017 20:15
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Sagebrush posted:An utterly ridiculous number that would destroy the entire United States' current electrical grid. Would the 350kW charging really matter? The deciding factor should be how much energy the car uses during the average commute? More powerful charging stations just means the car needs to spend less time on the station and there would be less cars charging at the same time. And larger batteries means the car needs to visit the station less often. Gas pedal is still what determines how much energy is needed in the end. Has anyone tried to estimate how much charging capacity does the grid have if most of it is done when it's most convenient, during night? A while back I tried to do this for the finnish power grid. I used the statistics from national grid operator to find the peak annual consumption and considered that the max capacity. I then compared that to the consumption during a normal night and calculated the available extra capacity. I googled for the distance of the average commute and made an estimate about how much electricity a Tesla might consume based on that. From this I estimated that the grid would have capacity to charge about half a million Teslas during a usual night. This is of course based on the assumption that charging is mostly done during night, but since electricity is cheapest then, the EV owners have large incentive to do that as long it is convenient enough. Homeowners have had dual-price power meters for decades, that measure separately the power consumption during day and night, and they pay different prices for the electricity. This can be directly applied for EVs. Nowadays pretty much every household has a power meter with 1 hour granularity. Here's my consumption from tuesday. First phase is to set a timer on the EV so it chargers during night, I believe many of them are capable of that. In the next phase the EV itself will check electricity prices and charge when it is cheapest. And in the final phase you give the EV access to your calendar and it will check you meetings to figure out if tomorrow will be a normal commute or if you need to visit a client and use that to estimate how much it needs to charge. It's like the Bentley fillup service but no humans have to be involved.
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Jul 27, 2017 20:57
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