|
WoodrowSkillson posted:i actually just took a quick look and could not even find one of him in WWII german clothing, maybe like a jacket once. WW1, Old west silliness, Finnish, British, and various other period wear but did not see any Nazi stuff, so if he even did its like once or twice and part of a bigger context.  Looks like WW2 pattern Sumpfmuster '43  Sumpfmuster '44 Granted, could be a slightly different post-war variant but who really cares? Some camouflage is cool and shouldn't be what you look at to define a person, SOME EXCEPTIONS APPLY And its not a one-off, google images for him show multiple instances of the 'Marsh Pattern'  Jobbo_Fett fucked around with this message at 16:50 on Jul 26, 2017 |
#
?
Jul 26, 2017 16:47
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 24, 2024 22:00 |
|
|
Those criticisms seem a bit silly to be as if you are going to be talking about firearms, of course you'll be covering a shitload of German gear.
|
|
|
#
?
Jul 26, 2017 16:50
|
|
|
bewbies posted:Re. Soviet artillery, I'm referencing this. I mean, have artillery shelling the poo poo out of everything it can reach as long as you have ammo for it dates back to the first world war, the second world war trick is putting the artillery on tracks or wheels so it can move forward with your forces faster. OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 16:54 on Jul 26, 2017 |
|
#
?
Jul 26, 2017 16:51
|
|
|
SeanBeansShako posted:Those criticisms seem a bit silly to be as if you are going to be talking about firearms, of course you'll be covering a shitload of German gear. Again, that's why I think its dumb to focus on the camouflage. If he's decked out in nazi regalia, I'm gonna be asking questions and wondering why he decided to wear such things, but just owning/wearing some WW2 German camouflage isn't noteworthy.
|
|
#
?
Jul 26, 2017 16:52
|
|
|
Yeah, if we was strutting around in full Hugo Boss SS formal dress and pretty much JUST covering 20th century German weaponry, alarm bells would of course be blaring but this thankfully doesn't seem to be the case.
|
|
|
#
?
Jul 26, 2017 16:54
|
|
|
HEY GAIL posted:
They make airsoft versions of almost every type of gun you can imagine. There's even a fairly expensive musket. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZdRN_cEUF0s Oh, and rocket launchers. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xLfZeMlf7Ok https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FHKydE4zKq4
|
|
#
?
Jul 26, 2017 16:55
|
|
they make...airsoft...machine guns?
|
chitoryu12 posted:They make airsoft versions of almost every type of gun you can imagine. There's even a fairly expensive musket. RPG7 used as room clearing device 
|
|
#
?
Jul 26, 2017 17:00
|
|
|
bewbies posted:Re. Soviet artillery, I'm referencing this. Soviet operational doctrine evolved a lot, Stalin said a bunch of poo poo. Recall his buddy Kulik was the Artillery directorate chief, and famously disparaged the value of tanks. Meanwhile Tukhachevsky got shot. A narrative where Stalin was Right All Along will certainly emphasise artillery and downplay tanks. EDIT: Consider https://books.google.co.uk/books?id...lanning&f=false Fangz fucked around with this message at 17:11 on Jul 26, 2017 |
|
#
?
Jul 26, 2017 17:03
|
|
|
Jobbo_Fett posted:Again, that's why I think its dumb to focus on the camouflage. If he's decked out in nazi regalia, I'm gonna be asking questions and wondering why he decided to wear such things, but just owning/wearing some WW2 German camouflage isn't noteworthy. Especially considering the inrange video that's basically a rant about how there's exceedingly little to be had that is decent quality that isn't WWII German, featuring Ian in a spiffy WWI US uniform and lamenting how a guy making horizon blue French stuff couldn't afford to keep doing it. Also I know I've seen him in gornostrelki stuff when shooting a dragunov, so he just collects stuff.
|
|
#
?
Jul 26, 2017 17:05
|
|
|
chitoryu12 posted:They make airsoft versions of almost every type of gun you can imagine. There's even a fairly expensive musket. But no airsoft pikes? 
|
|
#
?
Jul 26, 2017 17:08
|
|
|
chitoryu12 posted:They make airsoft versions of almost every type of gun you can imagine. There's even a fairly expensive musket. 
|
|
#
?
Jul 26, 2017 17:10
|
|
|
Siivola posted:I'm pretty sure you can get an actual flintlock musket for $470. Airsoft is pretty expensive, yeah.
|
|
#
?
Jul 26, 2017 17:16
|
|
|
My father has a musket in his basement that belonged to his great-grandfather, I would sell it to you for $460 even I'm p sure it was used for hunting seal, no wars
|
|
#
?
Jul 26, 2017 17:18
|
|
|
Black powder shooting seems like it would be a neat hobby but I hear keeping the poo poo clean is a major bitch.
|
|
#
?
Jul 26, 2017 17:19
|
|
|
zoux posted:Black powder shooting seems like it would be a neat hobby but I hear keeping the poo poo clean is a major bitch.
|
|
#
?
Jul 26, 2017 17:21
|
|
|
xthetenth posted:Especially considering the inrange video that's basically a rant about how there's exceedingly little to be had that is decent quality that isn't WWII German, featuring Ian in a spiffy WWI US uniform and lamenting how a guy making horizon blue French stuff couldn't afford to keep doing it. Yeah, that's the thing that sucks, not being able to properly re-enact less popular groups without it being prohibitively expensive. That being said: I do own a sniper smock in sumpfmuster '44 that I've never used because I don't want people at my range to think I'm a closet nazi. Also, it got me thinking, I own a full set of weapons for re-enacting a Japanese infantryman. Does anyone even do that and what's the thread's opinion on it? We've already seen/heard/talked about SS stuff to death, but how controversial is it to re-enact the Japanese?
|
|
#
?
Jul 26, 2017 17:22
|
|
|
zoux posted:Black powder shooting seems like it would be a neat hobby but I hear keeping the poo poo clean is a major bitch. So is surplus corrosive ammo
|
|
#
?
Jul 26, 2017 17:22
|
|
|
xthetenth posted:Especially considering the inrange video that's basically a rant about how there's exceedingly little to be had that is decent quality that isn't WWII German, featuring Ian in a spiffy WWI US uniform and lamenting how a guy making horizon blue French stuff couldn't afford to keep doing it.
|
|
#
?
Jul 26, 2017 17:24
|
|
|
Jobbo_Fett posted:Yeah, that's the thing that sucks, not being able to properly re-enact less popular groups without it being prohibitively expensive. You can probably get away with it in the US because barely anyone in America thinks the IJA was cool and awesome (much the reverse really), though I'll happily give you the side-eye if you were cosplaying as WWII japanese soldiers in Japan.
|
|
#
?
Jul 26, 2017 17:26
|
|
|
Not everyone has the necessary skills to make their own reproduction uniforms, or the space needed to store all the necessary cloth, thread, and baubles.
|
|
#
?
Jul 26, 2017 17:27
|
|
|
HEY GAIL posted:i don't understand this--it's less expensive to buy fabric and sew it yourself, isn't it? that way you don't pay whoever made the thing for making it. is there some difference between ww1 reenacting and 30yw reenacting i'm missing? Yeah, I think the people who want serious quality that isn't WWII German and a few others do exactly that. However we are getting to a time when uniforms and the like are products of an industrial society, so getting the right fabrics and so on can be severely unfun. Jobbo_Fett posted:Also, it got me thinking, I own a full set of weapons for re-enacting a Japanese infantryman. Does anyone even do that and what's the thread's opinion on it? We've already seen/heard/talked about SS stuff to death, but how controversial is it to re-enact the Japanese? Probably super contentious. Plus, do you really think you can pull off the diet?
|
|
#
?
Jul 26, 2017 17:27
|
|
|
I know that at least some people do it. Also, arguing that only SS uniforms are offensive are dumb as hell, the Wehrmacht wasn't clean.
|
|
#
?
Jul 26, 2017 17:32
|
|
|
It is interesting how familiar the average American is with the German atrocities of WWII but I bet very few know about the Japanese war crimes. They were as vile as anything the Nazis did but maybe because the scale wasn't as grand? Or maybe because the West doesn't feel as much sympathy for Asian people? Unrelated: are there Waffen-SS reenactors?
|
|
#
?
Jul 26, 2017 17:35
|
|
|
zoux posted:Unrelated: are there Waffen-SS reenactors? Hoo boy. 
|
|
#
?
Jul 26, 2017 17:41
|
|
|
HEY GAIL posted:
They made (still make?) airsoft *miniguns* for all your Commando needs. (dunno if cosplay chewing tobacco is available, though)
|
|
#
?
Jul 26, 2017 17:42
|
|
|
It's kinda funny having Isserson's "The Fundamentals of Deep Operations" open in one tab of my browser, and a Wikipedia article claiming how it's still classified open in another.
|
|
#
?
Jul 26, 2017 17:42
|
|
|
Gnoman posted:Not everyone has the necessary skills to make their own reproduction uniforms, or the space needed to store all the necessary cloth, thread, and baubles. farbs should sack up then
|
|
#
?
Jul 26, 2017 17:43
|
|
|
Siivola posted:Here, let me just link you to the re-enactment thread: https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3533531 George Zimmer posted:The really drastic examples were few and far between, but even the subtle, regular stuff was really out there. The group really glossed over alot of atrocities committed by the unit we were portraying. The actual unit during the war liquidated an entire Yugoslavian village in retaliation for local partisan activity. This was never discussed. Ever. Hell, we even had a reenactment of a Yugoslav village occupation, complete with summary executions and everything. As a goony teen I thought it was really interesting and "immersive", but looking back it was in incredibly poor taste. This seems, uh, problematic https://twitter.com/Nigel_Farage/status/889971797386514434 zoux fucked around with this message at 17:51 on Jul 26, 2017 |
|
#
?
Jul 26, 2017 17:45
|
|
|
As a reenactor, i've taken part several times in a skit that presented the sack of a city. for some reason, it seems not as bad as the filth that George Zimmer describes. Am I just exculpating myself, or is there a difference? The presence or absence of ideology?
|
|
#
?
Jul 26, 2017 17:54
|
|
|
xthetenth posted:
I'm sure the Japanese had a fat cook or something. I'll just claim I was impressed into combat duties due to lack of food or able men on the frontlines.
|
|
#
?
Jul 26, 2017 17:55
|
|
|
HEY GAIL posted:As a reenactor, i've taken part several times in a skit that presented the sack of a city. for some reason, it seems not as bad as the filth that George Zimmer describes. Am I just exculpating myself, or is there a difference? The presence or absence of ideology? I would say the difference is ideology, yeah. People know what the Nazis in WWII stand for, they knew what they represent. That they choose to adopt that kind of lifestyle is a display, a signal of the values they choose to hold, and those values are potent and dangerous and awful today.
|
|
#
?
Jul 26, 2017 18:01
|
|
|
zoux posted:It is interesting how familiar the average American is with the German atrocities of WWII but I bet very few know about the Japanese war crimes. They were as vile as anything the Nazis did but maybe because the scale wasn't as grand? Or maybe because the West doesn't feel as much sympathy for Asian people? Geography, I guess. Meanwhile in eg China and Korea they are super aware of Japanese atrocities but Nazi iconography and costumes are nbd.
|
|
#
?
Jul 26, 2017 18:01
|
|
|
Fangz posted:I would say the difference is ideology, yeah. People know what the Nazis in WWII stand for, they knew what they represent. That they choose to adopt that kind of lifestyle is a display, a signal of the values they choose to hold, and those values are potent and dangerous and awful today.
|
|
#
?
Jul 26, 2017 18:04
|
|
|
HEY GAIL posted:Whereas I don't think any of my friends use reenacting as a cover for their own hatreds, because those hatreds aren't part of anyone's life in Germany in 2017. I don't think my hauptmann wakes up every morning shaking his fists at Catholics... YEAH WELL HE SHOULD! 
|
|
#
?
Jul 26, 2017 18:06
|
|
|
i did once meet a czech woman whose life's ambition was to live long enough to see the anniversary of magdeburg and then set it on fire again
|
|
#
?
Jul 26, 2017 18:13
|
|
|
This all reminds me, I've been trying to look up stuff about the interwar history of Yugoslavia, and some of it is really strange to think of in retrospect. A Jewish-Serbian WW1 veteran and officer of the Yugoslav army being sent on a secret mission to USA in 1939 to beg for military supplies, and failing in that mission because of USA not being willing to do anything until Yugoslavia repays its debts, and still being alive to learn about the fate of the Yugoslav Jews, dying in US only a month before Serbia was declared Judenfrei. Yugoslav volunteers playing whack-a-mole with the NKVD in Spain (namely, trying not to get whacked), and the bitterness towards Stalin that existed in Communist Party of Yugoslavia even before the Tito-Stalin split. CPY offering to send volunteers to Czechoslovakia to fight the Nazis and staring slack-jawed as France and UK just shrug and give up. Goddamn, history gets weirder the more you learn about it.
|
|
#
?
Jul 26, 2017 18:14
|
|
|
zoux posted:It is interesting how familiar the average American is with the German atrocities of WWII but I bet very few know about the Japanese war crimes. They were as vile as anything the Nazis did but maybe because the scale wasn't as grand? Or maybe because the West doesn't feel as much sympathy for Asian people? The average American knows about death camps, and some vague details about the Eastern Front, but they definitely don't know about all the Soviet POWs starved to death, the Germans burning villages alive for partisan attacks, the rapid advance of Einsatzgruppe murders with Barbarossa, or the entire plan for genociding Eastern Europe so Germans could make more babies for the race war. The main thing about Imperial Japan is that the hierarchy of command was hosed up 8 different ways. One prison commandant might be normal, the one next door might like to behead lollygaggers. Generals would order troops to please please do not ghoulishly murder the civilians, and then people would go out on patrol and kill every Chinese they come across. It was this hosed up system where the only important thing was raw militarism and nobody was capable of directing any particular narrative.
|
|
#
?
Jul 26, 2017 18:18
|
|
|
Slim Jim Pickens posted:The main thing about Imperial Japan is that the hierarchy of command was hosed up 8 different ways. One prison commandant might be normal, the one next door might like to behead lollygaggers. Generals would order troops to please please do not ghoulishly murder the civilians, and then people would go out on patrol and kill every Chinese they come across. It was this hosed up system where the only important thing was raw militarism and nobody was capable of directing any particular narrative.
|
|
#
?
Jul 26, 2017 18:20
|
|
|
The most Americans have seen of the Japanese is probably stuff like Pearl Harbour, Empire of the Sun, Bridge over the River Kwai. On the Nazi side you have things like Schindler's List, a whole host of evil-nazis war movies, Inglorious Basterds, and so on. Japanese crimes were pretty grand in scale, but there's just not as much exposure to it. Hollywood's reluctance to do movies with too many Asian actors is probably another factor.
|
|
#
?
Jul 26, 2017 18:22
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 24, 2024 22:00 |
|
|
I mean Unit 731 is as bonkers cartoonishly evil as anything Mengele ever did. And didn't we Paperclip some of those guys?
|
|
#
?
Jul 26, 2017 18:26
|
|