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Tom Perez B/K/M? This poll is closed. |
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77 | 25.50% |
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160 | 52.98% |
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65 | 21.52% |
| Total: | 229 votes | ||
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yronic heroism posted:What's your solution to a 7-2 Supreme Court banning union dues? maybe dems shouldn't give up supreme court seats to republicans?
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Jul 26, 2017 18:21
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call to action posted:Unions are a losing proposition in the face of automation. Ensuring that the 20% of people that still get to have living wage jobs are represented at work is not a top priority. It also doesn't help that the people most helped by unions now (unlike the past) are old white dudes. Instead, let's focus on a guaranteed jobs program or single payer healthcare. This is the opposite of most unions' memberships afaik. The biggest unions are in sectors that are dominated by women and poc.
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Jul 26, 2017 18:22
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Agnosticnixie posted:This is the opposite of most unions' memberships afaik. The biggest unions are in sectors that are dominated by women and poc. Yes, call to action is a loving idiot. Unions are cool and good and we should have lots more of them.
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Jul 26, 2017 18:24
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Agnosticnixie posted:This is the opposite of most unions' memberships afaik. The biggest unions are in sectors that are dominated by women and poc. Yeah and they don't do poo poo. The UFCW, for example, is heavily women/PoC but doesn't really do a loving thing for their members, unlike the highly white Teamsters or Ironworkers unions. You'd know that if you actually talked to working people who cut meat and clean floors in supermarkets. The only successful women-dominated union are Nursing related, and they're overwhelmingly white. WampaLord posted:Yes, call to action is a loving idiot. Don't you have some more tone policing to do? Run along now.
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Jul 26, 2017 18:25
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WampaLord posted:She's going to loving run again. I really loving hope primary voters are smart enough to not give her a second shot. Not even Chuck Schumer will give her a second shot.
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Jul 26, 2017 18:27
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call to action posted:Yeah and they don't do poo poo. The UFCW, for example, is heavily women/PoC but doesn't really do a loving thing for their members, unlike the highly white Teamsters or Ironworkers unions. I don't have the demographics for the entire nation, but the APWU here in Seattle is majority PoC and it does plenty for me and my coworkers.
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Jul 26, 2017 18:28
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Ze Pollack posted:NFS's desperate desire to win internet arguments is relevant only insofar as there is a small, but extant portion of the emerging leftist coalition whose reaction to the presentation of identity politics in any form is to assume a Bad Dem attempt to derail the left is incoming, and thus must be opposed. this is an understandable mindset! it is also, unfortunately, incredibly stupid. Thanks for posting this; I was going to say basically the same thing and was mulling over how to do so without starting a dumb Internet fight. I think one issue is that stupidity/ignorance usually manifests in the center as just "not caring about politics" or reciting Democratic talking points, which is less noticeable than anti status quo stupidity that tends to be more "creative" and recognizably stupid.
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Jul 26, 2017 18:29
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WampaLord posted:She's going to loving run again. I really loving hope primary voters are smart enough to not give her a second shot. 3rd shot. her second shot was 2016 after she was too stupid to figure out how the rules for her own party's primary worked in 2008
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Jul 26, 2017 18:30
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Jizz Festival posted:I don't have the demographics for the entire nation, but the APWU here in Seattle is majority PoC and it does plenty for me and my coworkers. Yeah public sector unions have been much more successful, versus private sector unions which have pretty much only let their PoC membership down. That's super interesting that most of the carriers and sorting personnel in your area are majority PoC in Seattle, though, considering the demographics of that area. Any idea why that might be?
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Jul 26, 2017 18:31
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Ze Pollack posted:in fairness though NFS is a real loving idiot when it comes to dismissing minority concerns, and I can see why that kind of nonsense turns off hillary-leaning leftists say what you want about trump using slave labor I just don't put it in the same category as having domestic help doing your laundry and cooking your meals while you sip martinis and wonder why they have feelings like a white person much like prison slavery being better than chattle slavery, wage slavery is better than prison slavery just lol at the idea I dismiss minority concerns, you're almost as bad as a bad dem. sorry for not voting for another baby bomber NewForumSoftware fucked around with this message at 18:35 on Jul 26, 2017 |
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Jul 26, 2017 18:33
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Ah yes, Hillary Clinton, noted friend of Unions and enemy of unlimited corporate funding of politicians.
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Jul 26, 2017 18:33
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Condiv posted:3rd shot. her second shot was 2016 after she was too stupid to figure out how the rules for her own party's primary worked in 2008 If she runs in 2020 she will absolutely unironically use Third time's the charm in some way even if it's not the main slogan.
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Jul 26, 2017 18:34
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call to action posted:That's super interesting that most of the carriers and sorting personnel in your area are majority PoC in Seattle, though, considering the demographics of that area. Any idea why that might be? Not everyone knows to apply, I guess. Most of our applicants are immigrants from China, Vietnam, and the Philippines.
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Jul 26, 2017 18:34
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Matt Zerella posted:Ah yes, Hillary Clinton, noted friend of Unions and enemy of unlimited corporate funding of politicians. Snark all you want. We know how each party's Supreme Court nominees come down on these issues. And you know that's what's being discussed. The virtue of the person doing the appointing is not relevant to who gets appointed. yronic heroism fucked around with this message at 18:44 on Jul 26, 2017 |
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Jul 26, 2017 18:39
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Ze Pollack posted:NFS's desperate desire to win internet arguments is relevant only insofar as there is a small, but extant portion of the emerging leftist coalition whose reaction to the presentation of identity politics in any form is to assume a Bad Dem attempt to derail the left is incoming, and thus must be opposed. this is an understandable mindset! it is also, unfortunately, incredibly stupid. lol that you can post this sort of poo poo unironically it's literally amazing that people can legitimately believe things like "bernie supporters don't care about minorities" having you "lesser of two evil Hillary" voters come in here to explain "no, person who won't vote for baby bombing slave owners, YOU are the one who has an issue with minorities" seriously pull your own head out of your rear end and recognize that even JeffersonClay is probably to the left of every sitting member of congress when it comes to issues of race its sickening that you'll use minority concerns as a cudgel to attack anyone who dare suggest that maybe, just maybe, our society's problems with race are bigger than one political party and that voting blue mindlessly probably won't fix anything (unless you have a job at the EPA rubber stamping corporations ability to continue to destroy our environment) NewForumSoftware fucked around with this message at 18:43 on Jul 26, 2017 |
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Jul 26, 2017 18:39
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Maybe try considering the viewpoint of the actual majority of black voters who voted for her rather than just being a smug edgelord telling them they voted for slavery?
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Jul 26, 2017 18:42
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hey, crazy idea, maybe don't use slavery as a cudgel to defend trump / trump voters while pretending to care about minorities
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Jul 26, 2017 18:44
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yronic heroism posted:Maybe try considering the viewpoint of that the actual majority of black voters who voted for her rather than just being a smug edgelord telling them they voted for slavery? I'm fully aware that a majority of voters, not just black voters, got absolutely hoodwinked by the Democrats AGAIN. I'm sorry you all fell for the same song and dance, even though it was quite clear the entire time. I'm not posting in this thread to change the hearts and minds of the American people but to discuss how hosed up the Democratic party is.  at "don't be a smug edgelord"yronic heroism posted:Since a big part of this thread is immune to irony: the thread only talks about slaves when it's a convenient hobby horse. Of course if actual minorities were to come in and talk about their concerns let alone why they choose to vote rather than just whine on a podcast, suddenly a great mass of white dudes would have a lot of opinions about identity politics that they'd need to express. Don't dish out what you can't take you Polygynous posted:hey, crazy idea, maybe don't use slavery as a cudgel to defend trump / trump voters while pretending to care about minorities maybe Hillary voters shouldn't have spent years using "minority relations"(more humane slavery it turns out) as a cudgel to defend their awful economic policies
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Jul 26, 2017 18:45
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yronic heroism posted:Snark all you want. We know how each party's Supreme Court nominees come down on these issues. And you know that's what's being discussed. The virtue of the person doing the appointing is not relevant to the ho gets appointed. Wed get a corporate milquetoasts centrist and you know it. Stop this nonsense. It's not snark when I point out that democrats have zero interest in overturning CU or snuggling up with unions. It's the truth.
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Jul 26, 2017 18:45
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yronic heroism posted:Maybe try considering the viewpoint of the actual majority of black voters who voted for her rather than just being a smug edgelord telling them they voted for slavery? shut the gently caress up, you are unable to express what that viewpoint is or why it clashes with progressive politics, you just repeat an attack phrase you lifted from pundits like a god drat muppet. when you have substantial grievance, come back and formulate them.
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Jul 26, 2017 18:46
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Matt Zerella posted:Wed get a corporate milquetoasts centrist and you know it. Stop this nonsense. It's not snark when I point out that democrats have zero interest in overturning CU or snuggling up with unions. It's the truth. To be fair to Hillary, I actually believed her that she would go against Citizen United because that decision hosed with her directly. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizens_United_v._FEC
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Jul 26, 2017 18:46
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yronic heroism posted:Snark all you want. We know how each party's Supreme Court nominees come down on these issues. And you know that's what's being discussed. The virtue of the person doing the appointing is not relevant to who gets appointed. yes, we know how worthless centrist judges are on the issues. and hillary's a worthless centrist so we'd get garland or someone the republicans suggested
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Jul 26, 2017 18:46
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yronic heroism posted:Off the top of my head: The problem is that as bad as the Republicans are, the Democrats don't have much credibility on any of the above. Gerrymandering has broad bypartisan support among incumbents that don't want a contested election. Obama said he'd put on his walking shoes for unions and let them twist in the wind. His Supreme Court nominee could best be described as a moderate Republican. Under Obama, the best we got out of the Justice Dept was a honestly pretty good report on how hosed up Ferguson is and a call for more body cameras. No actual action. The best we could hope for under Clinton is some enterprising Silicon Valley types to create an app named "America's Funniest Police Killings" where we get to "like" our favorite videos of murdered, unarmed black people. Obama deported more immigrants than any previous President. I can't remember anything overtly poo poo that Obama did with the EPA, but I do recall how Clinton promoted fracking around the world so there goes that credibility. 20 million people potentially losing health insurance is terrible but that doesn't change the millions of uninsured or the fact that close to 70% of the country doesn't have $500 for an unplanned expense and can't afford to use their lovely ACA Bronze plan in the first place. Being diet poo poo doesn't get people to vote for you. People that want poo poo will go out and vote for the real deal and people that don't want poo poo will stay home.
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Jul 26, 2017 18:47
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WampaLord posted:To be fair to Hillary, I actually believed her that she would go against Citizen United because that decision hosed with her directly. Of course you do, you also thought that Chuck and Nancy's plan might be good if we give it a chance. You have the memory of a developmentally disabled german shepard. "Surely the woman who took the most money from corporations during her campaign would oppose corporations giving money to campaigns, it's quite elementary!"
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Jul 26, 2017 18:48
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yronic heroism posted:Maybe try considering the viewpoint of the actual majority of black voters who voted for her rather than just being a smug edgelord telling them they voted for slavery?
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Jul 26, 2017 18:49
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Condiv posted:yes, we know how worthless centrist judges are on the issues. and hillary's a worthless centrist so we'd get garland or someone the republicans suggested Are all the democratic-nominated justices on the Supreme Court now worthless centrists and if so when was the last one who wasn't? I am curious where you draw the line.
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Jul 26, 2017 18:49
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NewForumSoftware posted:lol that you can post this sort of poo poo unironically as I am one of said Bernie supporters, that would be quite stupid of me to believe. there are, however, a small group of leftists whose instinctive reaction when confronted by any inconvenient identity politics is to discard them as a bad dem plot to undo their agenda. see, for example, a relatively well intentioned person insisting trump didn't have slaves, to defend a man who voted for trump, because it might make the bad dem boogeyman angry. put down the cudgel, friend. you're going to hurt yourself.
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Jul 26, 2017 18:49
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yronic heroism posted:Are all the democratic-nominated justices on the Supreme Court now worthless centrists and if so when was the last one who wasn't. I am curious where you draw the line. The personality cult around RBG is kind of a bad thing in general and for all her ultra-liberal cred she still upheld a bunch of bullshit bills, including the muslim travel ban.
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Jul 26, 2017 18:50
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NewForumSoftware posted:Of course you do, you also thought that Chuck and Nancy's plan might be good if we give it a chance. You have the memory of a developmentally disabled german shepard. So sue me for being an optimist. I changed my tune on that pretty quickly once we learned details. Again, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizens_United_v._FEC
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Jul 26, 2017 18:50
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WampaLord posted:To be fair to Hillary, I actually believed her that she would go against Citizen United because that decision hosed with her directly. I disagree. I don't think she cares about the attack ad.
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Jul 26, 2017 18:50
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Ze Pollack posted:there are, however, a small group of leftists whose instinctive reaction when confronted by any inconvenient identity politics is to discard them as a bad dem plot to undo their agenda. see, for example, a relatively well intentioned person insisting trump didn't have slaves, to defend a man who voted for trump, because it might make the bad dem boogeyman angry. What would you consider "inconvenient identity politics" that I'm "discarding as a bad dem plot to undo their agenda". If anything, you are missing the inconvenient truth that NewForumSoftware posted:say what you want about trump using slave labor I just don't put it in the same category as having domestic help doing your laundry and cooking your meals while you sip martinis and wonder why they have feelings like a white person like I guess you can disagree if you want, but I'm not dismissing minority concerns, I'm making a value judgement if that ruffles centrists feather's so much (or left-leaning hillary supporters as you call them) maybe they shouldn't have voted for a candidate with a horrific record on race issue and we wouldn't be in this "oops I voted for a slaveowner too" situation WampaLord posted:So sue me for being an optimist. I changed my tune on that pretty quickly once we learned details. Being an optimist would be saying something like "maybe McCains' plane will crash on his way back to DC" You're just being stupid.
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Jul 26, 2017 18:53
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yronic heroism posted:Are all the democratic-nominated justices on the Supreme Court now worthless centrists and if so when was the last one who wasn't? I am curious where you draw the line. why are you asking me who constitutes a worthless centrist when i already gave you an example of one (garland)? another example would be kennedy
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Jul 26, 2017 18:54
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Condiv posted:why are you asking me who constitutes a worthless centrist when i already gave you an example of one (garland)? another example would be kennedy Are all the current democratic appointed justices sitting on the Supreme Court worthless centrists, y/n?
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Jul 26, 2017 18:57
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WampaLord posted:So sue me for being an optimist. I changed my tune on that pretty quickly once we learned details.
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Jul 26, 2017 18:58
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yronic heroism posted:Are all the current democratic appointed justices sitting on the Supreme Court worthless centrists, y/n? n, some of them are extremely conservative, some of them are left-leaning. you're fishing really hard to find a reason for what i said to be unreasonable
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Jul 26, 2017 19:00
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twodot posted:Regardless of how Clinton feels on it, what would her plan on attacking Citizens United look like? Somehow get a friendly justice through a Republican Senate, somehow re-pass the Bipartisan Campaign Reform Act through a Republican Congress, and then generate a test case? Her plan was a constitutional amendment. http://www.politico.com/story/2016/07/hillary-clinton-citizens-united-225658 Now we can sit here and laugh at that plan, but for this one particular issue, I didn't doubt her sincerity. People aren't 100% bad usually.
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Jul 26, 2017 19:01
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yronic heroism posted:Are all the current democratic appointed justices sitting on the Supreme Court worthless centrists, y/n? Jesus Christ. Start reading the replies to your posts instead of being a complete jackass!
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Jul 26, 2017 19:01
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NewForumSoftware posted:What would you consider "inconvenient identity politics" that I'm "discarding as a bad dem plot to undo their agenda". it is the part where you said voting for trump was okay, on the grounds that unlike Hillary he'd never employed slaves or said horrible things about their intellectual capacity, that puts the lie to this. i get it. You were in an argument with a Bad Dem and looking to lash out. you hosed up doing so. this is not the end of the world. stop trying to use minority issues you do not care about as a cudgel to win internet arguments. not only is it grotesque, you are extremely bad at it.
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Jul 26, 2017 19:01
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Trump's mean little trans-ban on the armed forces is just the kind of stunt that liberals love, and in fact, the only thing they can respond to, by design. It demands nothing of them other than a righteously outraged tweet or sound bite. Requires no action, no naming names of involved politicians or institutions, no burning of bridges. There's nothing they can really do, so there are no risks.
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Jul 26, 2017 19:01
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WampaLord posted:Her plan was a constitutional amendment. http://www.politico.com/story/2016/07/hillary-clinton-citizens-united-225658 i did and still do, cause she was all too eager to start sucking on that megadonor tap
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Jul 26, 2017 19:02
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