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Hmm it's almost like that's not the only other choice! - The tuition fees are loaned by the government - Students start paying them back in proportion to their income after they have secured a job with a decent enough income - The public gets its money back - No one goes bankrupt because no one is forced into bankruptcy! Again, there's no fellation of the Free Market (pbuh) but omelette, breaking eggs, etc.
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Jul 27, 2017 23:11
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Why would they pay it back if they could discharge?
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Jul 27, 2017 23:13
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You need good credit for more than just buying a house
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Jul 27, 2017 23:20
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Weatherman posted:Hmm it's almost like that's not the only other choice! What if they never secure a job with a decent income? What if the proportion of income they can pay based on their income isn't enough to cover interest or results in a payback period that effectively leads into retirement?
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Jul 27, 2017 23:24
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You can get a credit card or car loan if you can fog a mirror. If credit were a huge issue for 22-year-olds then there would be no reason to make it non-dischargeable in the US. I actually like the model you're describing, I just don't know that it survives contact with moral hazard.
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Jul 27, 2017 23:26
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monster on a stick posted:What if they never secure a job with a decent income? What if the proportion of income they can pay based on their income isn't enough to cover interest or results in a payback period that effectively leads into retirement? What if. What if I'm taking a shower and I slip on a bar of soap? *gasp* I'd be killed! You keep defending the system that is proven to be actually loving people up for life, VC mogul Subjunctive. If that works for you, great. I'll take the inferior method that educates people and launches them into adulthood without hanging millstones around their necks oh and also still hasn't bankrupted the entire country for some reason.
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Jul 27, 2017 23:29
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Weatherman posted:What if. What if I'm taking a shower and I slip on a bar of soap? *gasp* I'd be killed! I just said I preferred your model, and I haven't been defending anything. I don't see why people wouldn't choose to discharge, and nobody has answered that. I don't see what my job has to do with it, unless we've reached the ad hominem part of the evening. (In Australia, student loans aren't dischargeable. why not?)
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Jul 27, 2017 23:33
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Weatherman posted:What if. What if I'm taking a shower and I slip on a bar of soap? *gasp* I'd be killed!  Let's quote you again: quote:- Students start paying them back in proportion to their income after they have secured a job with a decent enough income So you are saying that people only pay back loans if they make a decent enough income. Which isn't guaranteed to be everyone, this thread is full of stories of college graduates who have lovely jobs and can barely afford to pay if they can pay at all. Then you say: quote:- The public gets its money back Which doesn't happen if the graduates don't make enough money. Unless you are thinking that "proportion of their income" is something like 50% because those graduates should just buck up and live in their cars and eat dry ramen. I'm sorry to point out that your plan has a gaping hole in it, maybe next time propose a plan that doesn't have gaping holes in it. Also I'm not Subjunctive, next time go to a college that teaches you how to read or something, then you can get started on more public policy suggestions that are equally broken. monster on a stick fucked around with this message at 23:41 on Jul 27, 2017 |
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Jul 27, 2017 23:38
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We need more marginal tax brackets. They should start above whenever my current income is
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Jul 27, 2017 23:40
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B87K-PVfXnE&t=13s
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Jul 27, 2017 23:51
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monster on a stick posted:
Perhaps you should contact The Hon. Malcolm Turnbull and let him know that the system his country has been running just fine for 30-odd years is broken and has gaping holes and should be replaced post-haste.
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Jul 27, 2017 23:52
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monster on a stick posted:
Do you understand what in proportion means
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Jul 27, 2017 23:54
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Also let's giggle at "what if they can't afford it" when that is literally the situation we have right now
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Jul 27, 2017 23:55
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BENGHAZI 2 posted:Also let's giggle at "what if they can't afford it" when that is literally the situation we have right now With REPAYE we can and do forgive loans after a certain period of time, which means that whole "the public gets it money back  " line is not accurate. Which is one of points of income-based repayment, the public forgives the loan if the person can't pay back the loan in a certain amount of time.Weatherman is saying "the public gets its money back " but it's like the business plan for the underpants gnomes.
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Jul 28, 2017 00:00
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monster on a stick posted:With REPAYE we can and do forgive loans after a certain period of time, which means that whole "the public gets it money back sure if you ignore the part where people make payments in proportion to their income
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Jul 28, 2017 00:01
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Weatherman posted:Perhaps you should contact The Hon. Malcolm Turnbull and let him know that the system his country has been running just fine for 30-odd years is broken and has gaping holes and should be replaced post-haste. Just fine, but with non-dischargeable student debt. Are you going to address that? Why do you think that's the case, and why do you think it's national news when people flee to NZ and effectively discharge it there? Subjunctive fucked around with this message at 00:59 on Jul 28, 2017 |
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Jul 28, 2017 00:55
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Bird
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Jul 28, 2017 01:01
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This seems like pretty on-topic stuff given how often student loans come up.
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Jul 28, 2017 01:07
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Pompous Rhombus posted:Basically. You pay something like 10% of your income once you make over a lower-middle-class amount of money. The loan balance does accrue interest but it's pretty modest, I think just covers inflation pretty much. http://studyassist.gov.au/sites/studyassist/payingbackmyloan/loan-repayment/pages/loan-repayment Lower middle class is... about 60k in Australia. Repayment percentage would be 4% for income over 54k. There is no interest, it's indexed to CPI. It's a great system IMO. only complaint is it doesn't factor in household income into the equation.
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Jul 28, 2017 01:30
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Weatherman posted:Perhaps you should contact The Hon. Malcolm Turnbull and let him know that the system his country has been running just fine for 30-odd years is broken and has gaping holes and should be replaced post-haste. Oh, you mean this plan: quote:About 17 per cent of new lending is now classified as doubtful, meaning it is not expected to ever be fully repaid. This expense, which appears each year in the Commonwealth Budget, is projected to be $1.1 billion this financial year. With student numbers rapidly increasing, and new uses being found for income contingent loans, doubtful debt costs will continue to rise. So what was that about "the public gets its money back" because it doesn't really sound like it if the government is writing off debt. Well at least it kept tuition down quote:The scale of borrowing under HELP is much greater than could have been envisaged in the late 1980s. Since then, the number of Australian higher education students has more than doubled. On average, students borrow much more now than they did then. or not (I mean, it's much better than the US, but it sounds like they had the same effect of seeing tuition go up as loans became easy to get, just like the US.)EDIT: quote:Although New Zealand has always required overseas student debtors to repay, policies have changed over the years. A now-abolished three-year repayment holiday for overseas debtors exacerbated repayment problems. New Zealand is finding that it is difficult to get debtors into repayments after such a long break. 
monster on a stick fucked around with this message at 02:07 on Jul 28, 2017 |
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Jul 28, 2017 01:55
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Marble Floors, Gold Ceilings: This is Chinas Most Luxurious Horse Stable (Sorry if this has been posted before)
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Jul 28, 2017 02:10
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monster on a stick posted:Oh, you mean this plan: Wow, snagging debtors at the airport, that's some next level collections work.
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Jul 28, 2017 02:43
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That's nothing on draft dodging. My father in law was back in turkey on a business trip and had his hotel door knocked down by commandoes in the middle of the night. Turns out they lost the record of his service when they digitized everything but he was held incommunicado in jail for 48 hours in the meantime until they could confirm his old unit. No apologies.
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Jul 28, 2017 02:51
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Vox Nihili posted:Wow, snagging debtors at the airport, that's some next level collections work. According to this article: quote:There are about 112,000 overseas-based student-loan borrowers, and roughly 70 per are in default. That's almost 80K people. Sounds like NZ may need a new debtors prison. But at least they won't go bankrupt 
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Jul 28, 2017 03:00
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monster on a stick posted:Oh, you mean this plan: The arrest policy is interesting. Anyone could be arrested for not making their payments. However right now they only selectively arrest those who could have been making payments. If they arrested someone working minimum wage in Australia, and IRD have neglected to follow through on a promised write off it could end up in a media disaster. I have friends who won't be arrested as it would demonstrate the policy is unfair. This goes doubly right now in the run up to the election. That said some people have been dicks and decided not to pay when they've been receiving good pay overseas.
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Jul 28, 2017 03:09
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Woof Blitzer posted:Bird  Huh, we have an smiley for it now.
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Jul 28, 2017 03:17
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Volmarias posted:
That's not the right bird 
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Jul 28, 2017 04:13
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ate all the Oreos posted:That's not the right bird Better the wrong bird than another stupid derail.
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Jul 28, 2017 04:15
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guy buys a Ferrari and crashes it into a burning wreck after owning it for one hour if it's a super rich guy then whatever but from the sounds of it im guessing it's probably a normal, sort of wealthy guy with a mid life crisis since the super rich don't need to "pick up" cars from dealerships (they have people who do that poo poo) http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-south-yorkshire-40748897
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Jul 28, 2017 07:41
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Weatherman posted:Perhaps you should contact The Hon. Malcolm Turnbull and let him know that the system his country has been running just fine for 30-odd years is broken and has gaping holes and should be replaced post-haste. This but unironically.
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Jul 28, 2017 12:24
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Zo posted:guy buys a Ferrari and crashes it into a burning wreck after owning it for one hour Gonna go out on a limb and guess this was the first car that had more than 300hp that he's ever driven.
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Jul 28, 2017 13:34
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monster on a stick posted:So you are saying that people only pay back loans if they make a decent enough income. Which isn't guaranteed to be everyone, this thread is full of stories of college graduates who have lovely jobs and can barely afford to pay if they can pay at all. Then you say: The repayment threshhold is currently $55k. The minimum wage is like $38 or so. If you never make over that amount in your life, even with a degree in Arts, you'd have to be actively trying to stay in the most basic minimum wage jobs. But I guess you guys are right, best the country scrap a scheme that makes further education financially available to everyone, only the rich should have that privilege after all.
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Jul 28, 2017 13:43
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Suspicious Lump posted:You've got a couple things wrong. The highest repayment percentage is 8% for people earning >$101,900 . You can find the table here: Yeah I wouldn't know firsthand, I paid international student fees.
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Jul 28, 2017 13:44
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Rudager posted:But I guess you guys are right, best the country scrap a scheme that makes further education financially available to everyone, only the rich should have that privilege after all. Nobody that I can see is arguing that. I'm arguing that non-dischargeable loans are essential to the system. Weatherman is arguing otherwise, ignoring that the system he's praising features non-dischargeable loans. I've explicitly said that I like the model he described, with the addition of non-dischargeable loans. Was my writing unclear? Could you give me an example that I can learn from?
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Jul 28, 2017 13:59
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Subjunctive posted:Nobody that I can see is arguing that. I'm arguing that non-dischargeable loans are essential to the system. Weatherman is arguing otherwise, ignoring that the system he's praising features non-dischargeable loans. I've explicitly said that I like the model he described, with the addition of non-dischargeable loans. I mean I guess because I swear a few days ago I saw you arguing that the "non-dischargeable" part was unnecessary
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Jul 28, 2017 14:14
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Subjunctive posted:If the loans are from the government and dischargeable, then the public is going to end up paying for it. There's no reason not to declare bankruptcy at 22. Your credit will be fine by the time you want to buy a house. When everyone is doing it it'll lose its stigma quickly. Subjunctive posted:I just said I preferred your model, and I haven't been defending anything. I don't see why people wouldn't choose to discharge, and nobody has answered that. I don't see what my job has to do with it, unless we've reached the ad hominem part of the evening. Subjunctive posted:Just fine, but with non-dischargeable student debt. Are you going to address that? Why do you think that's the case, and why do you think it's national news when people flee to NZ and effectively discharge it there? I dunno where you'd see that, but even if I were in favour of dischargeable debt I haven't been arguing to scrap anything.
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Jul 28, 2017 14:18
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In Australia, university used to be free.
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Jul 28, 2017 14:22
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Inescapable Duck posted:In Australia, university used to be free. That's the best system, though it requires management. Was it the case for professional degrees like medicine or law?
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Jul 28, 2017 14:23
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It all used to be free in the UK, I know that. You also used to get a maintenance grant. First the grant got phased out in favour of loans (capped at the rate of inflation and repayable once you were earning over £xx,000 a year) then they added tuition fees that you could increase your loan to pay for. Initially they were capped at £1,000 per year but that was increased to £3,000 per year in the last parliament. I went to uni the year before tuition fees came in so I paid £2000 total for my degree. The maintenance loans meant I still ended up with around £20k in student loan debt. It's now 25 years later and I've still got about £3,000 left to pay off because I didn't hit the earning threshold until about seven years after I graduated. And I still consider myself lucky because the poor sods that go to uni now will likely pay the loan off until they retirement age and still have part of the principle left that then gets written off.
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Jul 28, 2017 14:32
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Fil5000 posted:It all used to be free in the UK, I know that. You also used to get a maintenance grant. First the grant got phased out in favour of loans (capped at the rate of inflation and repayable once you were earning over £xx,000 a year) then they added tuition fees that you could increase your loan to pay for. Initially they were capped at £1,000 per year but that was increased to £3,000 per year in the last parliament. Look at this socialist paradise where retirement discharges loans. Work 'till you're dead then make sure your kids pay the rest, that's the American way 
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Jul 28, 2017 14:35
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