|
VitalSigns posted:Maybe who gives a poo poo
|
#
?
Jul 28, 2017 03:22
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 14, 2024 20:00 |
|
|
Shimrra Jamaane posted:I gotta say, making it so that the people getting hurt by this are the core middle class constituency instead of the poor is certainly a bold strategy. "I can't afford $500/month insurance" "WELL THEN JUST DON'T HAVE INSURANCE  "They're making you feel like the child of a Baby Boomer, which I think is the point
|
|
#
?
Jul 28, 2017 03:23
|
|
|
Zikan posted:because they're equally afraid of their hard base of that 16% primarying them. the mercers and steve wynn have basically said they're gonna kill heller due to saying bad things about the bill Nobody competent is running against Heller. Nobody competent will. You either let Heller fend for his own against his state's powerful labor interests, or you replace him with an even bigger stooge who will be targeted by Unite-Here and also wear the stigma of being a stooge. Nevada Democrats are used to fighting Sheldon Adelson's guys. They're usually defeated simply by pointing out that they're Sheldon's guys.
|
|
#
?
Jul 28, 2017 03:27
|
|
|
EugeneJ posted:If the Dems run on single-payer in 2018 and fail to retake the House or Senate...I don't think it ever happens lol if you think the democrats are gonna run on single payer
|
|
#
?
Jul 28, 2017 03:34
|
|
|
Also I don't understand why they are SO DOGGED on this. Do like the Democrats and let your moderates sabotage it and then say "we tried." And then move onto tax cuts because everybody loves those. The answer seems to be some variation of "but they need to kill healthcare to send it's money to tax cuts", but when the hell did Republicans care about the national debt when actually governing? That's just something they do to tell the opposition that there's no money left to accept any course but theirs.
|
|
#
?
Jul 28, 2017 03:35
|
|
|
They don't care about the deficit, they care about making the tax cuts permanent because last time they tried the 10-year expiration thing a Democratic president came along and just let most of the cuts expire.
|
|
#
?
Jul 28, 2017 03:38
|
|
|
Craptacular! posted:The answer seems to be some variation of "but they need to kill healthcare to send it's money to tax cuts", but when the hell did Republicans care about the national debt when actually governing? That's just something they do to tell the opposition that there's no money left to accept any course but theirs. if they're not offset they have a 10 year sunset. basically they go away in a decade, just like the bush tax cuts. their donors want these cuts in stone.
|
|
#
?
Jul 28, 2017 03:39
|
|
|
The thing is this Skinny Repeal they've introduced maintains those capital gains taxes entirely. It's just a massive bomb on the private insurance industry.
|
|
#
?
Jul 28, 2017 03:42
|
|
|
Spiritus Nox posted:How much time are we likely to have if/when the senate passes this filth? Is there a minimum time limit on conference or will this poo poo be done by the time I wake up for work? House isn't gonna be awake when the Senate votes on this, they'll probably wait two days if they vote for skinny repeal though so Senate doesn't file for a motion to reconsider (which might require the consent of the House anyway, but McConnell is fairly well into "we don't need eyes to see" territory if he considers that option.)
|
|
#
?
Jul 28, 2017 03:43
|
|
|
VitalSigns posted:They don't care about the deficit, they care about making the tax cuts permanent because last time they tried the 10-year expiration thing a Democratic president came along and just let most of the cuts expire. this one doesn't even have the tax cuts lol it's something everyone will hate
|
|
#
?
Jul 28, 2017 05:01
|
|
|
good things about this bill from the republican point of view: -donald trump gets to crow about a "win" - 
|
|
#
?
Jul 28, 2017 05:05
|
|
|
Did I just hear that vote right? Did McCain just vote no? Please tell me I did, because I think that'll be it dying... you know, instead of my family.
|
|
#
?
Jul 28, 2017 05:31
|
|
|
VitalSigns posted:Maybe That aside, the fact that you've managed to go from "You were as Benghazi truther" to a post about thinking Hillary got off easy because she's powerful and connected while apparently thinking you're still making the same point is pretty emblematic of your tendency to assume that anyone who disagrees with you on one point also disagrees with you about everything else, up to and including the color of the sky, and is therefore your ideological enemy.
|
|
#
?
Jul 28, 2017 05:32
|
|
|
I'm sorry I offended you with my Benghazi joke, I didn't mean it. I was just wondering what your politics are now and if they changed since 2016, but whatevs you don't have to tell me if you don't want to.
|
|
#
?
Jul 28, 2017 05:37
|
|
|
Anubis posted:Did I just hear that vote right? Did McCain just vote no? Please tell me I did, because I think that'll be it dying... you know, instead of my family. Different bill is up right now on CSpan, I think.
|
|
#
?
Jul 28, 2017 05:41
|
|
|
https://twitter.com/mepfuller/status/890794042988011520 https://twitter.com/mepfuller/status/890794513366630400 https://twitter.com/mepfuller/status/890794623131463681 Not sure if I should believe any of this or if he's just reporting like this for drama's sake Not getting my hopes up
|
|
#
?
Jul 28, 2017 05:46
|
|
|
Republican opposition to the ACA boiled down to basically: 1) Obama is black 2) Medicaid expansion Since Obama is no longer President the first issue isn't particularly salient anymore. As far as the second one, it's hugely divisive within the party between states that accepted the expansion and states that didn't. I think the Republicans probably could manage to get the votes for rolling back the expansion, but they would do so with full knowledge that they were completely loving their colleagues in expansion states. So McConnell is trying to focus on stuff that is less divisive internally, but that's all stuff that people like, or is necessary for the bill to even work. In truth healthcare in this country is a political quagmire, and I'm not sure why the Republicans were so eager to jump neck deep in this poo poo. The polling is pretty consistent about it: people want more and they want it to cost less, preferably free. How the gently caress is any politician supposed to craft a workable policy given those constraints? Plus you can add in the actual tangible effects of changes in health care policy. You want to institute single-payer? Good luck doing that without crashing the economy and putting a ton of people out of work. Let's let the market decide, remove the mandate and essential health benefits. Congratulations, you just crashed the economy and put a ton of people out of work, who now no longer have health insurance.
|
|
#
?
Jul 28, 2017 06:07
|
|
|
Simplex posted:In truth healthcare in this country is a political quagmire, and I'm not sure why the Republicans were so eager to jump neck deep in this poo poo. Republicans have total contempt for their rube voters and thought it would be easy to continue lying to them, that's why. Republicans have been deliberately sabotaging Obamacare since 2010 and betting their dumbass voters would blame Obama and they were right, they made up death panels wholesale and the fools fell for it easily, they can distract their base with race-baiting and gay-baiting pretty much at will, etc. They assumed they could wheel R-voting whites out of the hospital and dump them in the gutter while telling them "this is the best healthcare, you're getting incredible healthcare, and look at all those blacks and immigrants dying in the gutter next to you, their free ride is over" and they'll be so happy and so trusting that they won't notice what's happening to them. And then the CBO scores started dropping, and their voters did see what Republicans were doing and hated it, and none of the lies or spin worked because they didn't realize people were only believing that poo poo out of desperate hope Republicans had a secret wonderful plan. This totally blindsided the GOP but it was too late to just drop it after they'd already begun. VitalSigns fucked around with this message at 06:30 on Jul 28, 2017 |
|
#
?
Jul 28, 2017 06:28
|
|
|
Well, McCain voted no. It's dead again, for now. I'm glad, but prepare yourselves for reams of insufferable puff pieces and media tug-jobs for the Maverick finally somewhat living up to his nickname. E: https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/889798407228989441 This will age like fine wine.
|
|
#
?
Jul 28, 2017 06:42
|
|
|
John McCain is a hero for being the 51st vote for killing this. Lisa Murkowski and Susan Collins are bigger heroes for saying "gently caress this" from the very start.
|
|
#
?
Jul 28, 2017 06:56
|
|
|
So is it over? Was this last time they vote on the bill? At least until the House GOP comes up with its next stupid attempt. Can we all unclench our assholes at least for a little while?
|
|
#
?
Jul 28, 2017 07:04
|
|
|
gandlethorpe posted:So is it over? Was this last time they vote on the bill? At least until the House GOP comes up with its next stupid attempt. McConnell's speech talked about moving on, and they have a lot of incentive to do so after beclowning themselves 3 times in a row, so possibly. We've been in similar positions before tho.
|
|
#
?
Jul 28, 2017 07:06
|
|
|
Rhesus Pieces posted:I'm glad, but prepare yourselves for reams of insufferable puff pieces and media tug-jobs for the Maverick finally somewhat living up to his nickname. https://twitter.com/Bro_Pair/status/890809897805164544 I can't wait for the tellall of GOP Leadership for the last 10 minutes of that fiasco. Luckily, given their track record, we should have a leak of every conversation that took place on the floor by morning.
|
|
#
?
Jul 28, 2017 07:07
|
|
|
Looks like McCain is better at making deals than Trump.
|
|
#
?
Jul 28, 2017 07:08
|
|
|
gandlethorpe posted:So is it over? Was this last time they vote on the bill? At least until the House GOP comes up with its next stupid attempt. idk. honestly i feel like if they were gonna pass it, this would be the bill that passes since its "better". mitch sounded pissed and broken tonight, because i think he realized he has hosed himself and has nothing to show the donors atfter loving 8 years of hyping and poo poo.
|
|
#
?
Jul 28, 2017 07:12
|
|
|
On one hand, the last few months were a complete and utter waste of time for Congress. On the other hand, the repubs made asses of themselves the entire time. I don't know how to feel. It'll be nice to rest relatively easy for a while, and I can't wait to see the impending meltdown from SCROTUS.
|
|
#
?
Jul 28, 2017 07:14
|
|
|
gandlethorpe posted:On one hand, the last few months were a complete and utter waste of time for Congress. On the other hand, the repubs made asses of themselves the entire time. I don't know how to feel. We want them wasting time, if they're not, they'd be passing terrible poo poo. This is a loving win-win here, this was their last and best shot, good luck trying to repeal healthcare in a midterm year.
|
|
#
?
Jul 28, 2017 07:17
|
|
|
It feels weird to praise McCain for this, when not passing bills when you're not comfortable with them becoming law is such a baseline rock-bottom expectation of competence and conscience from a legislator that it's just bizarre to be grateful for it. So it's really more an indictment of the Republican party that all but 3 of them were willing to do that. But it's 2017 so gently caress it, celebrate being surprised that dysfunction didn't torpedo the country this time 
VitalSigns fucked around with this message at 07:41 on Jul 28, 2017 |
|
#
?
Jul 28, 2017 07:21
|
|
|
gandlethorpe posted:On one hand, the last few months were a complete and utter waste of time for Congress. On the other hand, the repubs made asses of themselves the entire time. I don't know how to feel. It's much better to waste time than to be very efficient in passing bad policy.
|
|
#
?
Jul 28, 2017 07:30
|
|
|
True dat. Forgot that anything good coming out of this Congress is pretty much out of the question. Best case is for them to accomplish nothing for the next two years.
|
|
#
?
Jul 28, 2017 07:38
|
|
|
Several vulnerable representatives and senators are also now on the hook for voting for Obamacare repeal. McCain, Murkowski and Collins shafted all of them. The lesson is, don't vote for unpopular bills in the hope that it'll somehow get fixed in post. 
|
|
#
?
Jul 28, 2017 07:45
|
|
|
VitalSigns posted:Republicans have total contempt for their rube voters and thought it would be easy to continue lying to them, that's why. I don't really think it's that simple. I think as a politician you can convince yourself that you are going to vote for a bill your base doesn't support because it's the right thing to do, and you don't care what those idiot rubes think about it. I don't think you can tell yourself that they'll love you for it, unless you are out-and-out delusional. Everything in this entire process indicated that they knew this bill would be unpopular. Remember, they tried to rush through the initial House bill before even waiting for the CBO scoring. McConnell tried crafting the bill in secret. Paul Ryan's plan was pretty obvious. He thought if he moved fast enough he wouldn't get stuck in the mud, but he was wrong. McConnell apparently thought he could be sneaky, and tiptoe through, and he was wrong. Either one of them, but especially McConnell after watching the clusterfuck in the House could have just avoided the mess altogether.
|
|
#
?
Jul 28, 2017 07:47
|
|
|
Un loving believable
|
|
#
?
Jul 28, 2017 11:15
|
|
|
So was McCain playing a long game? Vote yes on debate just to put himself in a position to then vote No on whatever McConnell came up with? If so, I have a sudden nugget of respect for him...
|
|
#
?
Jul 28, 2017 11:38
|
|
|
I'm glad to have been wrong.
|
|
#
?
Jul 28, 2017 11:52
|
|
|
So what happens now? Does Trump order the government to stop reimbursements in order to manually implode the healthcare market?
|
|
#
?
Jul 28, 2017 12:14
|
|
|
El Rooster Diablo posted:So what happens now? Does Trump order the government to stop reimbursements in order to manually implode the healthcare market? I think we will see some Republicans willing to work with the Democrats to prop up Obamacare since it will remain the law of the land. I don't expect it will be anything big, but they will put just enough into the system to ensure stability. Letting Obamacare fail is bad politics. At the end of the day the GOP is still in full control of Washington, and anything that happens will be blamed on them. If Obamacare fails and the Democrats ride a wave back into office, you can be sure they will push for solutions that are even further to the left.
|
|
#
?
Jul 28, 2017 12:40
|
|
|
El Rooster Diablo posted:So what happens now? Does Trump order the government to stop reimbursements in order to manually implode the healthcare market? Probably.
|
|
#
?
Jul 28, 2017 12:44
|
|
|
evilweasel posted:Probably.
|
|
#
?
Jul 28, 2017 12:48
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 14, 2024 20:00 |
|
|
My expectation is that Trump gives a speech saying that he's directed HHS to grant waivers from the individual mandate to whoever requests them (to protect people from FAILING OBAMACARE) and the CSR payments are intentionally shoved into a maybe we will pay/maybe we won't fugue state.TyrantWD posted:Letting Obamacare fail is bad politics. At the end of the day the GOP is still in full control of Washington, and anything that happens will be blamed on them. If Obamacare fails and the Democrats ride a wave back into office, you can be sure they will push for solutions that are even further to the left. Normally I'd expect that letting ACA fail with subtle intervention from the WH would be too difficult to understand for most voters, and they'd blame Obama for why premiums in the individual market became so high. But Trump being Trump means that he's likely to brag about intentionally killing it.
|
|
#
?
Jul 28, 2017 13:10
|
|