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Was McConnell actually crying please C/D
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Jul 28, 2017 13:10
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Monkey Fracas posted:Was McConnell actually crying please C/D damned near it
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Jul 28, 2017 13:38
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tetrapyloctomy posted:Talk about a great way to tank the support of the insurance industry, and subsequently every congressperson who has received donations from them. Actively wrecking the market also pretty much destroys any argument for Obamacare imploding -- it wasn't dying legislation that you compassionately euthanized, it was still plodding along and you shot its loving rider in the face. It's pretty clear by now that Trump only thinks one step forward. If you're wondering what he thinks about the consequences, the answer is he doesn't.
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Jul 28, 2017 13:57
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This whole ordeal is such a perfect example of why President Trump and his ability to gently caress poo poo up within the GOP while creating tons of internal strife is so, so preferable to the bland gay stompingness of Pence and his respectable healthcare grabbing.
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Jul 28, 2017 14:06
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After sleeping on it: McCain's still a loving rear end in a top hat but loving lol did he gently caress his colleagues good and proper on this one.
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Jul 28, 2017 14:08
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TyrantWD posted:I think we will see some Republicans willing to work with the Democrats to prop up Obamacare since it will remain the law of the land. I don't expect it will be anything big, but they will put just enough into the system to ensure stability. Stealing from Matt Yglesias here: if the GOP blows up Obamacare instead of tooling around the edges, it's basically admitting to everyone that market-based solutions for healthcare are unworkable, because Obamacare is the only even theoretically feasible market-based solution, and then the only workable and politically defensible option you're left with is some form of public intervention be it single payer, public option, medicare buy-in, etc. The worst thing for single payer getting momentum would be stable, functioning Obamacare.
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Jul 28, 2017 14:59
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SulphagneSocialist posted:Stealing from Matt Yglesias here: if the GOP blows up Obamacare instead of tooling around the edges, it's basically admitting to everyone that market-based solutions for healthcare are unworkable, because Obamacare is the only even theoretically feasible market-based solution, and then the only workable and politically defensible option you're left with is some form of public intervention be it single payer, public option, medicare buy-in, etc. Yup, accelerationism solves everything in health care, just like everywhere else in politics. 
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Jul 28, 2017 15:41
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rkajdi posted:Yup, accelerationism solves everything in health care, just like everywhere else in politics. I mean Matt Yglesias isn't some weird tankie accelerationist so I'm not sure why your calling basic political analysis something incredibly radical.
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Jul 28, 2017 15:55
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I mean this is it; they're loving done with healthcare now and will move on and try to direct attention elsewhere now right?
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Jul 28, 2017 16:07
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Monkey Fracas posted:I mean this is it; they're loving done with healthcare now and will move on and try to direct attention elsewhere now right? God I certainly hope so.
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Jul 28, 2017 16:10
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Monkey Fracas posted:I mean this is it; they're loving done with healthcare now and will move on and try to direct attention elsewhere now right? That appears to be the case, but McConnell left himself an opening on the calendar for it.
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Jul 28, 2017 16:11
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Discendo Vox posted:That appears to be the case, but McConnell left himself an opening on the calendar for it. I've seen some people talking about this - is it common for stuff that's on the calendar to go untouched like we would want health care to be? I would think so, but I don't usually follow day to day senate business this closely. At any rate, I don't know what options McConnell has left on the table at this point. He's used up a lot of budget money on bribes so there's not much more he can throw at the bill before it defeats the purpose of saving money for tax cuts, and I can't fathom that there's a fountain of goodwill for him, Trump, or Ryan in congress after six months of hyperventilating, so who's going to be in a hurry to sign up on another long shot?
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Jul 28, 2017 16:16
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Monkey Fracas posted:I mean this is it; they're loving done with healthcare now and will move on and try to direct attention elsewhere now right? I hope they leave it for this year at least, because my nerve are frayed not knowing whether there will be health insurance available for purchase next year. Logically, they should send some boffins into a room with a remit to come up with an actual plan that Republican voters like (not just Republican rich donors or politicians.)
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Jul 28, 2017 16:16
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jivjov posted:So was McCain playing a long game? Vote yes on debate just to put himself in a position to then vote No on whatever McConnell came up with? If so, I have a sudden nugget of respect for him... I think he wanted to see what actually came back. McCain is a conservative because he cares deeply about the way the system has always worked and the history behind it. That's what made him vote against the bill in the end - the lack of respect for the process. And probably because he doesn't really care about sticking it to Obama as much as everyone else seems to, even though he ran against him and lost.
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Jul 28, 2017 16:16
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BarbarianElephant posted:I hope they leave it for this year at least, because my nerve are frayed not knowing whether there will be health insurance available for purchase next year. Logically, they should send some boffins into a room with a remit to come up with an actual plan that Republican voters like (not just Republican rich donors or politicians.) 9847839D chess: The Republicans knew it would fail but just wanted to sew chaos for as long as possible to ruin the market so they could say "See? It failed!" This didn't happen. I watched Yertle McTurtle cry.
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Jul 28, 2017 16:18
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KillHour posted:I think he wanted to see what actually came back. McCain is a conservative because he cares deeply about the way the system has always worked and the history behind it. That's what made him vote against the bill in the end - the lack of respect for the process. And probably because he doesn't really care about sticking it to Obama as much as everyone else seems to, even though he ran against him and lost. He probably hates Obama and Trump about equally. Obama foiled his dream to be President. Trump insulted him and his service, and got elected by acting like a clown, when all McCain's dignity did not impress the American public one bit. So he's probably torn on which one of them he wants to succeed least.
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Jul 28, 2017 16:19
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Like the ancient Sumerian parliamentary blood moon ritual seems to have failed courtesy of McCain and I'm not sure what else The Turtle Man could do that would actually make it work while also achieving his goal of using this as a delivery system for a tax cut for the wealthy.
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Jul 28, 2017 16:21
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I expect a piece of legislation that's just Medicaid waivers next time. They can get 50 votes to give states the freedom to kick off their favorite acceptable targets like unemployed able-bodied people with things like work requirements. I just don't know why McConnell didn't instruct Heller to wildhold his yes vote until 48 or 49 was reached. Thanks for not bothering to protect your most vulnerable seat, you turtlenecked gently caress. Craptacular! fucked around with this message at 16:34 on Jul 28, 2017 |
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Jul 28, 2017 16:32
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Craptacular! posted:I expect a piece of legislation that's just Medicaid waivers next time. They can get 50 votes to give states the freedom to kick off their favorite acceptable targets like unemployed able-bodied people with things like work requirements. I don't think purely Medicaid waivers would be valid under reconciliation, meaning they'd need 60 votes. So I very much doubt that.
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Jul 28, 2017 16:51
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http://screengrabber.deadspin.com/bah-gawd-its-the-rattlesnake-1797324485 Thought this would provide some levity. The sound over it is killing me.
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Jul 28, 2017 17:08
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I'm breathing a little easier for now, but I refuse to believe it's over until we flip at least one chamber of Congress or the White House.
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Jul 28, 2017 19:00
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wrong thread
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Jul 28, 2017 19:16
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rkajdi posted:Yup, accelerationism solves everything in health care, just like everywhere else in politics. Not at all what I or Yglesias was talking about. Accelerationism would be "yes, let's hope the GOP throws millions of people off insurance, and then single player will definitely come along and fix it!"
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Jul 28, 2017 19:23
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BarbarianElephant posted:He probably hates Obama and Trump about equally. Obama foiled his dream to be President. Trump insulted him and his service, and got elected by acting like a clown, when all McCain's dignity did not impress the American public one bit. So he's probably torn on which one of them he wants to succeed least. There's literally no evidence whatsoever that he hates Obama. Obama didn't ruin his chance to be president, Bush did (twice). TROIKA CURES GREEK fucked around with this message at 19:28 on Jul 28, 2017 |
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Jul 28, 2017 19:25
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So, Is this it for healthcare reform? I thought it went something like house bill, house bill with amendments, skinny bill and then a vote-o-rama but it's just over?
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Jul 28, 2017 20:02
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Tab8715 posted:So, it might be for awhile, at least for august and maybe September. i think they know they have been screwed and the president hasn't helped at all. turtle has utterly failed. they will move on to police or taxes or some poo poo. my guess is trump will blow up soon and sack a bunch of people. so that will give them room to breath.
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Jul 28, 2017 20:16
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The Maroon Hawk posted:I'm breathing a little easier for now, but I refuse to believe it's over until we flip at least one chamber of Congress or the White House. Is kind of amazing that the scope of the damage they could have done with so much power has been limited both by Trump's incompetence and the sheer mean spirited transparency of what they're trying to do being on such public display that to date enough moderate Republicans have balked enough to limit the damage. Like if the Republican leadership were even moderately less transparently self-serving soulless monsters over the past 6 months who knows really.
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Jul 28, 2017 21:00
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Tab8715 posted:So, It's never completely over until Republicans lose a house of Congress, but it's about as over as it can get for now.
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Jul 28, 2017 21:13
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evilweasel posted:It's never completely over until Republicans lose a house of Congress, but it's about as over as it can get for now. Have to think McCain leaving until the end of recess gives us a minimum of a month or so. And McConnell is talking like he would sooner stick his dick in a vise then back in this hornet's nest again any time soon.
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Jul 28, 2017 21:14
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Isn't there some sort of fiscal year expiration date for reconciliation bills that we're fast approaching or am I confusing things?
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Jul 28, 2017 21:20
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Rhesus Pieces posted:Isn't there some sort of fiscal year expiration date for reconciliation bills that we're fast approaching or am I confusing things? Apparently that may not actually exist. The fiscal year ends on September 30th but the law doesn't specifically say that reconciliation bills expire once the fiscal year they are attached to ends, but in 2010 there was an article that said senate parliamentarians have generally thought the bill lasts until the end of congress. So right now my assumption is that the bill doesn't expire. What I could not find a clear answer on is if a new budget (required to get the reconciliation bill for tax cuts) expires the old budget.
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Jul 28, 2017 21:38
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Monkey Fracas posted:Was McConnell actually crying please C/D His mutant turtle overlords will not be pleased. He was part of an advance unite sent to weaken the humans defense, first by raising the global temperature since his species is cold blooded and secondly to thin our population numbers by any means necessary,
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Jul 29, 2017 00:48
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Peachfart posted:I don't think purely Medicaid waivers would be valid under reconciliation, meaning they'd need 60 votes. So I very much doubt that. When the Parliamentarian axed Planned Parenthood defunding, she approved Medicaid waivers. Why wouldn't it work standalone?
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Jul 29, 2017 02:55
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Dapper_Swindler posted:it might be for awhile, at least for august and maybe September. i think they know they have been screwed and the president hasn't helped at all. turtle has utterly failed. they will move on to police or taxes or some poo poo. my guess is trump will blow up soon and sack a bunch of people. so that will give them room to breath. Well that started tonight with the Chief of Staff gone. Its going to get ugly, then uglier (lots more crap like those transgender tweets and the cringe-worthy speeches this week) then impeachment. My favorite Trump satire page has been calling impeachment in November 2017 since the inauguration. I wonder if he'll quit before then, in the face of an emboldened North Korea and a failing legislative agenda. 6 months in and all he can say he did was claim the stolen Supreme Court seat and signed a bunch of useless proclamations, most of which are either unenforceable or held up in court. I have the McCain "no" moment saved to my DVR. I will cherish it and relive the rush of emotions I felt while watching it live. That shot of the whole Senate and their various reactions is a work of art.
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Jul 29, 2017 03:26
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Trump is not going to be impeached by a Republican house. If he becomes that much of a drag they will work out a deal for him to resign, citing either health reasons or "the very failing, very biased media, which will not let me do my job." Much more likely though is he has for-real health problems that force him gradually out of the public eye. The man's 71, fat, lazy, incredibly stressed and terrible at dealing with it. His lifestyle is insanely unhealthy and he barely sleeps. He's already showing lots of signs of dementia/senility, from his nearly incoherent speech (read transcripts from a decade ago, he used to talk like a real person) to his habit of wandering off from its handlers. If he makes it 8 years he'll be completely gaga by the end of it.
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Jul 29, 2017 03:34
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Craptacular! posted:When the Parliamentarian axed Planned Parenthood defunding, she approved Medicaid waivers. Why wouldn't it work standalone? Because people used to think that Republicans couldn't be so racist that they would turn down a million metric fucktons of federal cash just to prove a point. Now we know better that Republicans will turn down any amount of money to gently caress with Obamacare. So we can take it as a given that Medicid waivers will reduce federal spending. I think this applies regardless, and the PP decision timing was a coincidence.
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Jul 29, 2017 03:59
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KillHour posted:I think he wanted to see what actually came back. McCain is a conservative because he cares deeply about the way the system has always worked and the history behind it. That's what made him vote against the bill in the end - the lack of respect for the process. And probably because he doesn't really care about sticking it to Obama as much as everyone else seems to, even though he ran against him and lost. Yeah, I think that's the most likely scenario. I kind of believe McCain will retire during the recess and not come back to the Senate, and this was a final gently caress you to McConnell for abusing the system. If this same bill had gone through the normal process we would have seen classic John McCain, who would tell us how deeply disturbed and troubled by the bill, before voting yes. I imagine he took McConnell trying to abrogate the responsibility of the Senate pretty personal, as that's McCain's whole thing. You don't rouse John McCain from a hospital bed to go participate in some farce.
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Jul 29, 2017 04:30
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Craptacular! posted:When the Parliamentarian axed Planned Parenthood defunding, she approved Medicaid waivers. Why wouldn't it work standalone? The reconciliation bill has to save $127b but the waivers are supposed to be cost neutral, making it hard for them as a standalone to save $127b. That said, I thought she axed the waivers too.
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Jul 29, 2017 04:42
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Simplex posted:Yeah, I think that's the most likely scenario. I kind of believe McCain will retire during the recess and not come back to the Senate, and this was a final gently caress you to McConnell for abusing the system. If this same bill had gone through the normal process we would have seen classic John McCain, who would tell us how deeply disturbed and troubled by the bill, before voting yes. I imagine he took McConnell trying to abrogate the responsibility of the Senate pretty personal, as that's McCain's whole thing. You don't rouse John McCain from a hospital bed to go participate in some farce. He will come back because the main reason he flew back was the defense bill which (thanks to Paul throwing a fit and delaying it) will be done when they come back.
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Jul 29, 2017 04:44
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evilweasel posted:The reconciliation bill has to save $127b but the waivers are supposed to be cost neutral, making it hard for them as a standalone to save $127b. The final version of the waivers was changed heavily. Instead of allowing them to waive Obamacare protections, they were change to mandatory upon request 8 year non-reviewable programs. So as long as initial plan passed muster the waiver had to be issued and then for 8 years there was no effective oversight since it couldn't be revoked.
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Jul 29, 2017 04:58
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