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When Londoners got together and kicked the poo poo out of Moseley's men at Cable Street it was the right thing to do, and so is punching modern equivalents.
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Jul 29, 2017 01:24
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THC posted:youre like one of those Rebel Media tits and adjacent south park fans who whinge about hate speech legislation in canada. all ideas are valid and have inherent value! if some guy plasters your your neighbourhood with libellous anti-gay posters that's somehow much better than if he wasn't allowed to do that! if that gives you anxiety then just respond with your own posters! if we don't allow one kind of speech it's a slippery slope to totalitarianism! now, about all those dirty thieving gypsies coming over here... the government, controlled by trump and the republican congress, should actively create and enforce rules about what you are not allowed to say
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Jul 29, 2017 01:25
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Al! posted:i have tons of faith in humanity which is why i believe that fascism can be kept at bay with a few well-timed punches Speaking of which, this pin is adorable. You can buy it here: http://crizzlesbuttons.ecrater.com/p/26190592/i-punched-richard-spencer-antifa-pinback
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Jul 29, 2017 01:26
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ArgumentatumE.C.T. posted:the government, controlled by trump and the republican congress, should actively create and enforce rules about what you are not allowed to say notice how I have in no way advocated this
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Jul 29, 2017 01:29
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Marxist-Jezzinist posted:"Ww2 happened because fascists took power" You said it was happening again. THC posted:youre like one of those Rebel Media tits who whinge about hate speech legislation in canada. all ideas are valid and have inherent value! if some guy plasters your your neighbourhood with libellous anti-gay posters, that's somehow much better than if he wasn't allowed to do that! if that gives you anxiety then just respond with your own posters! if we don't allow one kind of speech it's a slippery slope to censoring poop jokes and anime titty cleavage! now, about all those dirty thieving gypsies coming over here... No, I'm probably not like guys who have opinions on gypsies. Freedom of speech and association are essential rights in a democratic society, and you need to stop being so terrified of nazis saying dumb poo poo that you want to abridge those rights. By the way libel is already illegal and that's not in conflict with the first amendment. ArgumentatumE.C.T. posted:the government, controlled by trump and the republican congress, should actively create and enforce rules about what you are not allowed to say
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Jul 29, 2017 01:37
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This pin is also too cute for words and I need a million of them. http://crizzlesbuttons.ecrater.com/p/25438116/an-owie-to-one-is-all-pinback-button
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Jul 29, 2017 01:38
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libs love to conflate street violence with state violence
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Jul 29, 2017 01:39
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ArgumentatumE.C.T. posted:the government, controlled by trump and the republican congress, should actively create and enforce rules about what you are not allowed to say The government controlled by Trump and the Republican congress won't do poo poo. They have specifically been encouraging violence against minorities and defunding anti racism. We live in a system that ALREADY does what you're suggesting and punching a few Nazis won't change that
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Jul 29, 2017 01:41
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:libs love to conflate street violence with state violence I explicitly acknowledged the difference after Maxxbot's post, but what's alarming is the number of folks in favor of both, and it's because they come from the same impulses.
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Jul 29, 2017 01:42
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Jeb! Repetition posted:You said it was happening again. No, I did not. You said not to fight fascists because they rarely take power. I pointed out that something bad happened last time they did, with the implication that even if it's not likely, it's a good idea to prevent it from happening again. ContinuityNewTimes has issued a correction as of 01:45 on Jul 29, 2017 |
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Jul 29, 2017 01:43
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other essential rights exist besides the freedom of speech, for example, the right to not be publicly vilified on the basis of your religion or skin colour by well heeled actors utilizing mass media. so it's actually fine and good to limit the freedom of speech where it becomes harmful and adds nothing of value to the society. Juul-Whip has issued a correction as of 01:48 on Jul 29, 2017 |
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Jul 29, 2017 01:44
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THC posted:other essential rights exist besides the freedom of speech, for example, the right to not be publicly vilified on the basis of your religion or skin colour by well heeled actors utilizing mass media. The problem with that is every eight years we do a 180 on who's deciding what adds value to society and what's harmful. And again the problem with your example isn't that folks were bieng racist or anti-gay, it's libel.
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Jul 29, 2017 01:46
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punch nazis "oh so you think it's okay to punch anyone you disagree with huh!"nope, just nazis this is not hard
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Jul 29, 2017 01:48
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Instead of forcing far right types to become more paranoid and militarized and cool and giving them a justification for armed insurrection, I think it's better to just tell them why they're full of poo poo publicly.
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Jul 29, 2017 01:48
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THC posted:punch nazis Well according to the tortured academic definition Richard Spencer was trying to give he's not a Nazi.
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Jul 29, 2017 01:49
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I'm in favor of the First Amendment and punching Nazis in the face.
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Jul 29, 2017 01:49
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Basically I believe in what I call The Nazi Clause: some ideas and people are so repellent and awful that it is not hypocritical to use means against them that you would deplore under other circumstances.
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Jul 29, 2017 01:51
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Jeb! Repetition posted:Aside from the lack of faith in humanity it evinces, why are folks like you always so scared of liberal democracy being weak to fascism? It's taken power in like 0.01% of cases. Hmm let me think that's right facists killed my entire family. I realize this feels very abstract to you, but my whole family and pretty much all of Hungarian Jewry were killed by Nazis. The lucky ones were merely shot and wll buried in mass graves. The unlucky ones were tortured, enslaved, raped, and then murdered.
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Jul 29, 2017 01:56
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liberal democracy is working great you guys. just calmly explain to the nazis why they're wrong. this is also working very well as evidenced by our current state of affairs. oh ye of little faith. smdh
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Jul 29, 2017 02:04
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Jeb! Repetition posted:I think it's better to just tell them why they're full of poo poo publicly. Donald Trump is president
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Jul 29, 2017 02:13
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THC posted:notice how I have in no way advocated this controls on free speech arent going to come with a big ONLY FOR USE ON NAZIS, NO CHANGES BY REPUBLICANS ALLOWED clause genius
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Jul 29, 2017 02:43
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MaxxBot posted:I'm fine with people punching Richard Spencer for example because threat of arrest is naturally going to limit such behavior and there's not a big threat of spiraling political violence. I'm more worried by people who would advocate that we ought to have the government suppress people like Richard Spencer by repealing or ignoring the first amendment. Look providing mandatory vacations to northern Alaska is a great way to deal with these people.
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Jul 29, 2017 02:53
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i really think the only acceptable way to punch a nazi is to track him down, break into his house, and punch him while he's on the toilet. anything else lacks artistry
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Jul 29, 2017 03:02
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Jeb! Repetition posted:Well according to the tortured academic definition Richard Spencer was trying to give he's not a Nazi. And any number of pedophile give tortuous explanations as to why it's really ephebophilia and therefore entirely fine. No one buys that bullshit either.
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Jul 29, 2017 03:13
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Fascists recruit by show of strength. Anything that undermines their narrative that they are strong and superior is good. Those guys who followed around Matt Forney until he had to ask the cops for help, good. Punching Spencer, good. Punching Spencer again, still good. That guy who kicked the bucket without anybody lifting a finger, good.
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Jul 29, 2017 03:14
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Jeb! Repetition posted:Well according to the tortured academic definition Richard Spencer was trying to give he's not a Nazi. The very reason he's not just calling himself a Nazi is because the last time someone did so proudly we punched them with bombs, tanks and bullets until they stopped being Nazis. You keep thinking that somehow Nazi's actually give a poo poo about working within the liberal framework and you just give them room to grow and infect society by warping discourse with the cover you provide. When you debate them, give them a platform, you implicitly give their ideas legitimacy, of which a core part is the required violence against an "other". You cannot have reasoned debate when one side is constantly trying to wind up for a haymaker. Further Nazism has advantages in debate because it has no need to stick to objective reality or truth, it is inherently dishonest. They'll bury you in loving lies and half truths that take a thousand times more words and effort to disprove, and it is so much, much easier to disseminate lies and so much easier for people to absorb them then the much longer, more complex truth that may require a greater understanding in related topics. Nazism is cancerous, stop trying to treat it with antibiotics. Nazis only understand violence, anger and fear.
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Jul 29, 2017 03:18
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https://twitter.com/TheQuQu/status/890765462878814208 Well,a re we surprised?
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Jul 29, 2017 03:24
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Jeb! Repetition posted:Instead of forcing far right types to become more paranoid and militarized and cool and giving them a justification for armed insurrection, I think it's better to just tell them why they're full of poo poo publicly. Nazis don't have honor. They don't reciprocate good will. That's not what they're about. If you grant them something (freedom of speech), with the expectation that they will grant the same thing back to you, you are going to be disappointed.
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Jul 29, 2017 03:35
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FaustianQ posted:The very reason he's not just calling himself a Nazi is because the last time someone did so proudly we punched them with bombs, tanks and bullets until they stopped being Nazis. You keep thinking that somehow Nazi's actually give a poo poo about working within the liberal framework and you just give them room to grow and infect society by warping discourse with the cover you provide. When you debate them, give them a platform, you implicitly give their ideas legitimacy, of which a core part is the required violence against an "other". You cannot have reasoned debate when one side is constantly trying to wind up for a haymaker. Further Nazism has advantages in debate because it has no need to stick to objective reality or truth, it is inherently dishonest. They'll bury you in loving lies and half truths that take a thousand times more words and effort to disprove, and it is so much, much easier to disseminate lies and so much easier for people to absorb them then the much longer, more complex truth that may require a greater understanding in related topics. most of what you've just described matches creationism to a T and the number of people supporting that hasn't grown in 50 years
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Jul 29, 2017 03:38
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Al! posted:modern anarchism is scary to ppl i agree, because it's not based in the teachings of the enlightenment quote:because anarchists believe often their ultimate role will be to tear down the communist state for a society that is post-authority
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Jul 29, 2017 03:43
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Remember for most of these people, when they started acting like Nazis is the very first time anyone paid attention to them and took them seriously. Ever. Take that away from them. Mock them and humiliate them in public, and they will run away crying, and be afraid to go out in public again. And make sure to repeat it. Then present viable alternatives, something that mainstream society has failed pretty badly at in the last few decades.
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Jul 29, 2017 03:46
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Captain_Maclaine posted:And any number of pedophile give tortuous explanations as to why it's really ephebophilia and therefore entirely fine. No one buys that bullshit either. My point is "nazi" is an imprecise term and it gets used on anybody to the right of the speaker the same way "commie" gets used on anybody to the left. So you can just label anybody you want a punch as a nazi eventually.
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Jul 29, 2017 03:53
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Fascism and Nazism are actually easily definable terms, the issue you're alluding to is a problem of legalistic interpretation and precedent - it is impossible to codify the definition, under the context of a liberal legal system, in such a way that it won't eventually be abused by a interested party.
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Jul 29, 2017 04:01
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Jul 29, 2017 04:25
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ahhhh this owns owns owns
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Jul 29, 2017 04:35
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rudatron posted:How is anarchism not based on the 'teachings of the enlightenment'? Also: its definately happening, prove me wrong
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Jul 29, 2017 04:58
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Jul 29, 2017 04:59
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 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YmcK6GvgVPs Patreon CEO - Lauren Southern and other 'Defend Europe' members are not getting their accounts back because they were involved in blocking search and rescue ships from entering the Mediterranean. I suggest watching the entire video. It's absolutely damning. E: Lauren Southern is such a horrible person she made me side with the Pomplamose guy. Montasque has issued a correction as of 05:26 on Jul 29, 2017 |
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Jul 29, 2017 05:19
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ArgumentatumE.C.T. posted:most of what you've just described matches creationism to a T and the number of people supporting that hasn't grown in 50 years Maybe because creationism has little shared value with Nazism besides lunacy and no implied threat of physical violence or extermination for an "other". It's also quite different because creationism isn't an ideology unto itself but a belief someone can carry on nearly any point of the spectrum. It's apples and oranges, hth.
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Jul 29, 2017 05:30
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Al! posted:its definately happening, prove me wrong 
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Jul 29, 2017 05:39
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