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Brother Entropy posted:'just talk down the nazi' is kinda loving tricky if you're in one of the many kinds of minorities that nazism defines as lesser degenerates Again I'm not saying it's usually gonna be possible to save the nazis themselves, but I don't think punching them is gonna make them change their minds either.
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Jul 29, 2017 00:12
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Slim Jim Pickens posted:Is there any reason why you two seem to be trying to talk politics with the least amount of effort possible? I've done this too many times
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Jul 29, 2017 00:12
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Jeb! Repetition posted:Argue for something better than fascism; donate, campaign and vote for candidates who aren't fascist; and report fascists if they commit crimes inspired by their worldview. That pretty much covers it. Okay here's the issue: you're arguing big picture poo poo. We're not talking about systemic politic change here, we're talking about the actual Nazis on the street. Next time the skins at a gig start picking fights with my south asian mates or give me a kicking because I'm wearing a SHARP patch you want me to try and persuade them to be better people as we bleed on the floor? It's disempowerment. Knock them in the face on the street and they lose the fantasy of being big hard defenders of civilisation and everyone is safer
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Jul 29, 2017 00:14
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Jeb! Repetition posted:Again I'm not saying it's usually gonna be possible to save the nazis themselves, but I don't think punching them is gonna make them change their minds either. it's not about changing their minds, it's about showing everyone in the area that nazism will not be tolerated every nazi walking around in public and left alone is an implicit threat to minorities
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Jul 29, 2017 00:15
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Slim Jim Pickens posted:Is there any reason why you two seem to be trying to talk politics with the least amount of effort possible? Go back to D&D
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Jul 29, 2017 00:17
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Jeb! Repetition posted:Well, protests aren't places to convince other protesters, they're a place to convince bystanders. ok then, well the goal is to convince bystanders that being a nazi is dangerous to them personally, and it has been wildly successful without having to kill a single nazi
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Jul 29, 2017 00:17
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like the most violent thing that you can tie antifa to was make this big fucker think he could mouth off to some armenian gangsters and think that he could get away with a punch in the nose instead of a stabbing
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Jul 29, 2017 00:19
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Crane Fist posted:Okay here's the issue: you're arguing big picture poo poo. We're not talking about systemic politic change here, we're talking about the actual Nazis on the street. Next time the skins at a gig start picking fights with my south asian mates or give me a kicking because I'm wearing a SHARP patch you want me to try and persuade them to be better people as we bleed on the floor? Bud, if they commit violence against you or your friends, then you're 100% justified defending yourself. That's not the situation I'm talking about. Brother Entropy posted:it's not about changing their minds, it's about showing everyone in the area that nazism will not be tolerated Well if a Nazi organization commits a hate crime in an area, or are discovered planning to, or explicitly threaten to, then yeah. Otherwise though. It's not justified.
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Jul 29, 2017 00:20
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Al! posted:ok then, well the goal is to convince bystanders that being a nazi is dangerous to them personally, and it has been wildly successful without having to kill a single nazi Well I'm one of those people who think silencing folks about their beliefs through threats is hosed up and immoral. Al! posted:like the most violent thing that you can tie antifa to was make this big fucker think he could mouth off to some armenian gangsters and think that he could get away with a punch in the nose instead of a stabbing Whoa, Cenk Uygur's been busy.
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Jul 29, 2017 00:22
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Jeb! Repetition posted:Well I'm one of those people who think silencing folks about their beliefs through threats is hosed up and immoral. white power recruiting drives qualify as planning to commit a hate crime imo (because again historically this is what happens when they are allowed to demonstrate unmolested and with tacit police approval)
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Jul 29, 2017 00:30
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nothing is more convincing than a sock full of d cells.
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Jul 29, 2017 00:33
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also you might find this hard to believe, but when white supremacists are allowed to march freely in an area, it tends to keep minorities from coming out and expressing their viewpoints or even voting
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Jul 29, 2017 00:34
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Al! posted:also you might find this hard to believe, but when white supremacists are allowed to march freely in an area, it tends to keep minorities from coming out and expressing their viewpoints or even voting Sounds like people being convinced by the power of the expression of speech to me. Democracy works.
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Jul 29, 2017 00:36
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like that's the thing, nazi germany totally blew js mill out of the water, faith that the marketplace of ideas always roots out the bad ones through reason and logic is just as misplaced as faith that the invisible hand inevitably corrects all economic inequities
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Jul 29, 2017 00:37
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Brother Entropy posted:'just talk down the nazi' is kinda loving tricky if you're in one of the many kinds of minorities that nazism defines as lesser degenerates It's almost like they don't see us as human
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Jul 29, 2017 00:40
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someone should have shot a bunch of spitballs at the punched nazi instead of making him the punched nazi everyone would have won
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Jul 29, 2017 00:41
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ArgumentatumE.C.T. posted:someone should have shot a bunch of spitballs at the punched nazi instead of making him the punched nazi This but bullets from rifles
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Jul 29, 2017 00:46
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Al! posted:also you might find this hard to believe, but when white supremacists are allowed to march freely in an area, it tends to keep minorities from coming out and expressing their viewpoints or even voting Then we oughta support minorities and make it clear to white supremacists that we won't tolerate any funny business. And also make stuff like "poll watching" illegal. Al! posted:like that's the thing, nazi germany totally blew js mill out of the water, faith that the marketplace of ideas always roots out the bad ones through reason and logic is just as misplaced as faith that the invisible hand inevitably corrects all economic inequities Aside from the lack of faith in humanity it evinces, why are folks like you always so scared of liberal democracy being weak to fascism? It's taken power in like 0.01% of cases.
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Jul 29, 2017 00:50
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the thing about the alt right is even the "colorblind" (lol i cant even) ones belive in the extermination of the muslim faith (and anyone who refuses to give it up)
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Jul 29, 2017 00:51
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can we just agree and say both sides have gotten UH SORRY BUT CASTLE DOCTRINE as gently caress here
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Jul 29, 2017 00:51
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i also read like 2-3 posts and just came in here wild though
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Jul 29, 2017 00:51
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Jeb! Repetition posted:Then we oughta support minorities and make it clear to white supremacists that we won't tolerate any funny business. And also make stuff like "poll watching" illegal. That 0.01% did end up starting a 100,000,000 death war. Best not let it happen again.
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Jul 29, 2017 00:55
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Marxist-Jezzinist posted:That 0.01% did end up starting a 100,000,000 death war. Best not let it happen again. Yeah authoritarians (and some anarchists apparently?) are real keen on folks giving up their rights to save us from an extremely unlikely bad thing happening.
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Jul 29, 2017 00:57
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i have tons of faith in humanity which is why i believe that fascism can be kept at bay with a few well-timed punches
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Jul 29, 2017 00:58
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Jeb! Repetition posted:Yeah authoritarians (and some anarchists apparently?) are real keen on folks giving up their rights to save us from an extremely unlikely bad thing happening. Happening again
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Jul 29, 2017 01:00
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Jeb! Repetition posted:Well I'm one of those people who think silencing folks about their beliefs through threats is hosed up and immoral. lol you must be new to this thread
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Jul 29, 2017 01:00
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Marxist-Jezzinist posted:Happening again I must really not be paying attention to be missing the 100,000,000 death war with fascists going on right now.
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Jul 29, 2017 01:01
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My bad ww2 only killed 80 million. What a maroon!!
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Jul 29, 2017 01:03
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Marxist-Jezzinist posted:My bad ww2 only killed 80 million. What a maroon!! Uh that wasn't my point
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Jul 29, 2017 01:05
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who said anything about giving up rights
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Jul 29, 2017 01:06
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also it doesnt have to escalate to the level of ww2 for innocent people to be targeted and killed because of their skin color
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Jul 29, 2017 01:06
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I'm fine with people punching Richard Spencer for example because threat of arrest is naturally going to limit such behavior and there's not a big threat of spiraling political violence. I'm more worried by people who would advocate that we ought to have the government suppress people like Richard Spencer by repealing or ignoring the first amendment.
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Jul 29, 2017 01:07
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MaxxBot posted:I'm fine with people punching Richard Spencer for example because threat of arrest is naturally going to limit such behavior and there's not a big threat of spiraling political violence. I'm more worried by people who would advocate that we ought to have the government suppress people like Richard Spencer by repealing or ignoring the first amendment. which is literally not anything anybody but tankies believe
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Jul 29, 2017 01:09
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MaxxBot posted:I'm fine with people punching Richard Spencer for example because threat of arrest is naturally going to limit such behavior and there's not a big threat of spiraling political violence. I'm more worried by people who would advocate that we ought to have the government suppress people like Richard Spencer by repealing or ignoring the first amendment. Okay? I mean I'm scared of snakes but I don't bring it up in every thread
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Jul 29, 2017 01:10
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Jeb! Repetition posted:Uh that wasn't my point You said fascists very rarely get power, I said when they did it was very bad. Then you apparently forgot the defining events of the 20th century lol
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Jul 29, 2017 01:10
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Marxist-Jezzinist posted:You said fascists very rarely get power, I said when they did it was very bad. Then you apparently forgot the defining events of the 20th century lol You said WWII is happening again and I said, snarkily, no it's not. MaxxBot posted:I'm fine with people punching Richard Spencer for example because threat of arrest is naturally going to limit such behavior and there's not a big threat of spiraling political violence. I'm more worried by people who would advocate that we ought to have the government suppress people like Richard Spencer by repealing or ignoring the first amendment. Guess that's reasonable, I'm just worried about it getting normalized to the point where there's political will for that to happen.
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Jul 29, 2017 01:12
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let the people that want to punch each other punch each other best to laugh from afar
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Jul 29, 2017 01:16
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Marxist-Jezzinist posted:This but bullets from rifles way to miss the point and veer the conversation into your delusions of glory you can undermine them in so many more delicious ways than killing each other
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Jul 29, 2017 01:17
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Jeb! Repetition posted:You said WWII is happening again and I said, snarkily, no it's not. "Ww2 happened because fascists took power" "Uh no idiot,ww2 isn't happening right now!'
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Jul 29, 2017 01:18
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youre like one of those Rebel Media tits who whinge about hate speech legislation in canada. all ideas are valid and have inherent value! if some guy plasters your your neighbourhood with libellous anti-gay posters, that's somehow much better than if he wasn't allowed to do that! if that gives you anxiety then just respond with your own posters! if we don't allow one kind of speech it's a slippery slope to censoring poop jokes and anime titty cleavage! now, about all those dirty thieving gypsies coming over here...
Juul-Whip has issued a correction as of 01:24 on Jul 29, 2017 |
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Jul 29, 2017 01:19
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