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Alhazred posted:That's a really white list... Did you not see him mention Japan? 
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Jul 29, 2017 13:38
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Perestroika posted:I actually read RPO cover to cover because it was gifted to me, and I basically can't remember a single drat thing that happened in there. Not having grown up in the US just about 80% of the references were pretty much white noise to me, and the actual plot was so drat barebones it might as well not have been there. I can't even recall how it ended. Pretty much the only thing I do recall is that at one point the protagonist starts to get fat from playing videogames all day and having his food delivered, and his solution to that was buying some sort of integrated treadmill thing so that he could work out while still playing. Also he shaved off all his hair so he wouldn't have to deal with hygiene. This was supposed to show some sort of admirable devotion, rather than the mother of all red flags. Uh you totally missed the part where he talks about how much he loves masturbation and pornography, but he returned his VR-capable gently caress-bot because he's not a pervert like some people. It was almost a whole chapter.
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Jul 29, 2017 14:20
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What annoyed me most about RPO is that it starts with an interesting setup- a future of grinding poverty and this kid trying to pull himself up though the medium of virtual reality where no one knows how he lives or what he's like in real life... And then for the entire book after that his origins are not for one second considered and he spends it acting like a middle class white boy who's never known want. It's the hollow skin of cyberpunk.
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Jul 29, 2017 14:52
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I have a past friend, a distant acquaintance now, who extolled the virtues of RPO to me and I faintly recall feeling this was where the friendship began to go downhill. Not because of RPO itself, but how it represented the way my friend enmeshed himself in consumerism, obtaining things, knowing obscure episode quote #29134 with little context for why that quote meant enough to remember. It's part of what got me to self-reflect and adjust my own behavior, tbh. The Twilight comparison is incredibly apt. Both works are peons to the author. Twilight, especially when Bella becomes inhuman, is word after word of dripping praise for her miraculous perfection and motherhood to such an extent it's been interpreted as Meyer bemoaning her lot as an ordinary human and all the inglorious trappings of childbirth, marriage, and a working-class life. RPOs author is currently in his mid-40s and although I'm hardly as studied on his life and correspondence, the laundry lists of nostalgic pop culture topped off with VR porn and a "princess" prize speaks of all the resentment such men have for having to concern themselves with uncomfortable things like empathy, compassion, and intersectionalism as it pertains to modern times (someone mentioned it's a very white list, it's also very male, very cis, very straight - had it been written a couple years later there'd be choice comments regarding Star Wars and Ghostbusters no doubt). Both works are utterly frustrating because there *are* good ideas, but the practice is a fumbling success for their mediocre assurances to the reader. Oof, well that was pretentious. Anyway RPO is awful, I hope someone pulls it apart sporking/MST3K style, I hope the film fails miserably, and if my acquaintance praises its virtues beyond popcorn flick I may have to cut off all contact.
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Jul 29, 2017 15:25
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Inescapable Duck posted:Really American, too. Though that probably goes without saying. Twilight may be a pretty unoriginal romance story, but it's not a pure-stream regurgitation of girl-culture nostalgia in the least. That poo poo has yet to really escape the fanfiction ghetto.
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Jul 29, 2017 15:30
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Who could care that a straight white nerdy guy likes things that straight white nerdy guys like? No poo poo, of course he's going to quote Star Wars and not Paris Is Burning. Most people don't make a concerted effort to avoid conforming to their own demographics, which is why demographics exist in the first place. Of all the things to take him to task for (and you're really spoiled for choice), this might be the least reasonable.
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Jul 29, 2017 16:00
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there wolf posted:Twilight may be a pretty unoriginal romance story, but it's not a pure-stream regurgitation of girl-culture nostalgia in the least. That poo poo has yet to really escape the fanfiction ghetto. Also RPO would be vastly improved by copying Twilight's technique of inserting a chapter full of blank white pages.
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Jul 29, 2017 16:03
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Strom Cuzewon posted:Also RPO would be vastly improved by copying Twilight's technique of inserting a chapter full of blank white pages. this but do it for every chapter
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Jul 29, 2017 16:29
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Brass Key posted:What annoyed me most about RPO is that it starts with an interesting setup- a future of grinding poverty and this kid trying to pull himself up though the medium of virtual reality where no one knows how he lives or what he's like in real life... Honestly the rest of the book upset me so much I'd kinda forgotten how cool the slums he lived in were - it was like a towering makeshift city of stacked abandoned campers and stuff. Of course, his shanty house gets blown the gently caress up, but it's okay, he hated his family and so it almost never gets mentioned again.
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Jul 29, 2017 16:46
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Brass Key posted:What annoyed me most about RPO is that it starts with an interesting setup- a future of grinding poverty and this kid trying to pull himself up though the medium of virtual reality where no one knows how he lives or what he's like in real life... I have yet to read this theme done right. I've also tried getting short stories like this published and haven't found a buyer yet, so either the market's glutted or I'm not as clever as I think I am.  SUPERMAN'S GAL PAL posted:Oof, well that was pretentious. Anyway RPO is awful, I hope someone pulls it apart sporking/MST3K style, I hope the film fails miserably, and if my acquaintance praises its virtues beyond popcorn flick I may have to cut off all contact. The movie could be okay if the screenwriters cherry-pick from the book. (And they might have to because of all the trademarks.) Sham bam bamina! posted:Who could care that a straight white nerdy guy likes things that straight white nerdy guys like? No poo poo, of course he's going to quote Star Wars and not Paris Is Burning. Most people don't make a concerted effort to avoid conforming to their own demographics, which is why demographics exist in the first place. Of all the things to take him to task for (and you're really spoiled for choice), this might be the least reasonable. I'll spring the trap, I guess. For all the book's attempts to be progressive (the protagonist's trash-talking best friend in game is a fat black teenage girl irl) it's held back by the author's knowledge base. I've written a lot about small Southern towns in the 80s and 90s, and despite living here all my life, I still have to research stuff. Wade doesn't have to know everything about 1980s geek fandom, but Cline should--especially because Helen should know what it's like being a culture nerd of color. EDIT: I have fat thumbs and I must mobile post. I brought my Drake has a new favorite as of 16:55 on Jul 29, 2017 |
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Jul 29, 2017 16:53
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In my experience, the main difference between black and white nerds is that black nerds like Dragon Ball Z more. ...And after a quick search through my PDF, it looks like Dragon Ball Z is conspicuously absent. OK, you win. I had the lowest standard imaginable, and he failed to meet it. 
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Jul 29, 2017 16:59
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food court bailiff posted:Of course, his shanty house gets blown the gently caress up, but it's okay, he hated his family and so it almost never gets mentioned again. Oh man I forgot about that part. Everyone I knew is dead! Oh who cares they were just trailer trash background characters. Barely even people. I'm busy playing Joust.
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Jul 29, 2017 17:01
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Sham bam bamina! posted:In my experience, the main difference between black and white nerds is that black nerds like Dragon Ball Z more. DBZ was more of a 90's thing, IIRC, especially in the west.
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Jul 29, 2017 17:04
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There's plenty of early-'90s stuff in the book too. I was sure that it would be in there.
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Jul 29, 2017 17:05
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Not really. Early 90s had a brief run of the original dragon Ball, but it wasn't until DBZ was dubbed in 97 or so that it really took off in popularity
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Jul 29, 2017 17:12
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Oh, fair enough.
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Jul 29, 2017 17:14
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Brass Key posted:Oh man I forgot about that part. Everyone I knew is dead! Oh who cares they were just trailer trash background characters. Barely even people. I'm busy playing Joust. Aren't some of the victims small children that did nothing to Wade?
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Jul 29, 2017 19:02
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there wolf posted:Twilight may be a pretty unoriginal romance story, but it's not a pure-stream regurgitation of girl-culture nostalgia in the least. That poo poo has yet to really escape the fanfiction ghetto. 
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Jul 29, 2017 19:10
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Sham bam bamina! posted:In my experience, the main difference between black and white nerds is that black nerds like Dragon Ball Z more. Black nerds makes better music:  Also, the Matrix sequels are at least as bad as Crystal Skull and yet they are parts of the "holy trilogies".
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Jul 29, 2017 19:12
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Arcsquad12 posted:Not really. Early 90s had a brief run of the original dragon Ball, but it wasn't until DBZ was dubbed in 97 or so that it really took off in popularity Yeah that's all true, but "real" weebs (ugh) import subs because they hate dubs.
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Jul 29, 2017 20:27
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I guess the lesson in all this is that Cassandra Clare's real mistake was not going far enough in her ripoffs.
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Jul 29, 2017 20:52
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funktopus posted:Yeah that's all true, but "real" weebs (ugh) import subs because they hate dubs. Just proves Cline's a hack if he didn't go deep diving for references.
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Jul 29, 2017 21:37
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Brass Key posted:I'm reminded of this absolutely wonderful typo. Late reply, but this error is the best thing that OCR has done for the world, and there are many more fine examples: https://www.theguardian.com/books/booksblog/2014/may/01/scanner-ebook-arms-anus-optical-character-recognition
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Jul 29, 2017 21:40
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there wolf posted:I guess the lesson in all this is that Cassandra Clare's real mistake was not going far enough in her ripoffs. I mean, that's an essay collection about fandom, which I haven't read so I can't comment on the quality, but it's not the same thing at all.
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Jul 29, 2017 21:54
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Alhazred posted:That's a really white list... Also very male...
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Jul 29, 2017 22:11
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SUPERMAN'S GAL PAL posted:I hope someone pulls it apart sporking/MST3K style I can almost guarantee RiffTrax will do an audio riff on this (since they'll never secure rights to use the movie directly). Their phone/tablet app works really well at synching with movies, it usually figures out the timeline of a movie within seconds and the timing of the riffs is synched as to be almost indistinguishable from if they had recorded directly onto the movie itself.
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Jul 29, 2017 22:34
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Ready Player One represents, in a lot of ways, some of the worst of nerd culture as the entire book is tacit praise of mindless absorption and regurgitation of pop culture. Nowhere in there does our illustrious hero touch on the depths of the media he consumes, the themes, the character arcs. You know, the stuff that elevates media from being babysitting to actual art. When he brings up Blade Runner, does he do it to draw a parallel to his own story, exploring Blade Runner's themes of darkness, fatalism, humanity, etc? Nah, gently caress that poo poo, Blade Runner had Harrison Ford in it who is also cool because he was Han Solo AND Indiana Jones! There were so many neon lights in it! He had a gun and ate a noodles! Yayy I win at everything because I mindlessly consume!
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Jul 29, 2017 23:44
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I imagine RPO doesn't describe Buffy the Vampire Slayer as "the most feminist work of fiction in history" but I wouldn't be surprised if it did.
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Jul 29, 2017 23:46
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Wheat Loaf posted:I imagine RPO doesn't describe Buffy the Vampire Slayer as "the most feminist work of fiction in history" but I wouldn't be surprised if it did. Pretty sure it doesn't mention Buffy, both because it was a '90s thing and because 99% of the media this dude obsesses over is of the weinered variety.
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Jul 30, 2017 00:52
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Wheat Loaf posted:I imagine RPO doesn't describe Buffy the Vampire Slayer as "the most feminist work of fiction in history" but I wouldn't be surprised if it did. Let me check my copy...I am still pissed I paid for this. 0 hits for Buffy. Oddly enough, 0 hits for feminist. The closest reference to a Whedon female protagonist? RPO posted:Standing on the left side of the runway was my battle-worn X-wing fighter. Parked on the right side was my DeLorean. Sitting on the runway itself was my most frequently used spacecraft, the Vonnegut. Max had already powered up the engines, and they emitted a low, steady roar that filled the hangar. The Vonnegut was a heavily modified Firefly-class transport vessel, modeled after the Serenity in the classic Firefly TV series. The ship had been named the Kaylee when I’d first obtained it, but I’d immediately rechristened it after one of my favorite twentieth-century novelists. Its new name was stenciled on the side of its battered gray hull.
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Jul 30, 2017 00:53
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Wheat Loaf posted:I imagine RPO doesn't describe Buffy the Vampire Slayer as "the most feminist work of fiction in history" but I wouldn't be surprised if it did. That would involve RPO ever thinking about feminism, or indeed having any thoughts about women besides "protagonist's best friend turns out to be a black woman in real life, QUELLE SURPRISE" and "protagonist's other friend is openly female and this results in him falling in love with her and creepily stalking her to prove his devotion/convince him to love her back, which obviously works because this is a book written by and for entitled-rear end nerdboys." I think I've said it before, but I feel like a more thoughtfully-written version of RPO could be an effective dystopian novel, about a world where so much of the population lives in grinding hopeless poverty that a mega-billionaire's "learn everything about all of my nerd obsessions and maybe win my fortune" contest can seem like the only way out to so many people that said mega-billionaire's obsessions take over pop culture, as well as said contest being a means for the wealthy to ensure that their inheritors don't bring anything other than the older generation's ideas with them. It would require the author to realize that an entire generation's youth culture being obliterated and replaced by the tastes of a single dead Ur-Nerd is not actually a good thing, though, and God knows Ernest Cline doesn't seem to think that way.
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Jul 30, 2017 00:57
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Ah, I was being a bit facetious, from descriptions it just strikes me as the kind of "Buffy = pinnacle of feminism" you always get on, e.g. TV Tropes etc. One example I'll always remember is from a class I did on a human rights law module which discussed feminism in the context of critical theory more generally. As a pre-class exercise, we were instructed to locate a picture that we thought could represent feminism, post it in the shared online workspace and explain why we'd picked it in two or three sentences. Mostly it was stuff you'd expect: pictures of equality signs, infographics about pay gaps, old photos of suffragettes chaining themselves to railings etc. But one guy just put up a huge loving photo of Joss Whedon and some stuff about how perfect his female characters are because Buffy knows kung fu.
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Jul 30, 2017 01:03
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RPO sounds like the extreme version of "Scary Movie"-type "jokes", where instead of a guy walking around in a Wonder Woman costume and deciding that the audience should find that funny because hey, it's a Wonder Woman reference, remember that?, now it's just the guy saying the words "Wonder Woman"
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Jul 30, 2017 03:45
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Whedon, you say?An actual sentence from this book posted:I’d looted the Vonnegut from a cadre of Oviraptor clansmen who had foolishly attempted to hijack my X-wing while I was cruising through a large group of worlds in Sector Eleven known as the Whedonverse.
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Jul 30, 2017 04:08
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Antivehicular posted:I think I've said it before, but I feel like a more thoughtfully-written version of RPO could be an effective dystopian novel, about a world where so much of the population lives in grinding hopeless poverty that a mega-billionaire's "learn everything about all of my nerd obsessions and maybe win my fortune" contest can seem like the only way out to so many people that said mega-billionaire's obsessions take over pop culture, as well as said contest being a means for the wealthy to ensure that their inheritors don't bring anything other than the older generation's ideas with them. It would require the author to realize that an entire generation's youth culture being obliterated and replaced by the tastes of a single dead Ur-Nerd is not actually a good thing, though, and God knows Ernest Cline doesn't seem to think that way. I went back and re-listened to the I Don't Even Own A Television episode on this, and they pointed out that the setting is pretty much lifted wholesale from Johnny Mnemonic. And now all I can think is that there would totally be kids who scorned the game and avoided/mocked/sabotaged it, and they would be the coolest cyberpunks of all.
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Jul 30, 2017 04:12
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Imagine RPO but the billionaire is Ulillillia and they have to memorize facts about bubsy 3d instead. Instantly a much more solid and intriguing work.
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Jul 30, 2017 05:36
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Ulillillia would make the whole film by himself
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Jul 30, 2017 05:43
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Tunicate posted:Imagine RPO but the billionaire is Ulillillia and they have to memorize facts about bubsy 3d instead. Instantly a much more solid and intriguing work. I would pay for this idea in book form.
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Jul 30, 2017 05:43
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Considering the RPO movie has Spielberg and other actually competent people behind it, there is a bigger than zero chance that Cline might see the final result and come out saying something like "I loved the special effects and x-wings and deloreans, but there was too much focus on the females and on how horrible the real world setting is."
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Jul 30, 2017 17:05
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Clearly, none of you are aware of what a profound, devoted feminist Ernest Cline is.
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Jul 30, 2017 17:14
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