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DoubleNegative posted:
DoubleNegative posted:
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DoubleNegative posted:God dammit Graham. No, seriously. What the hell Graham?
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Jul 29, 2017 23:38
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: The second is a magical shield that protects the bearer from all mortal harm.
: I've been waiting for you a long time, Gwydion. I have sorrowful news for you. Years ago, a terrible three-headed dragon invaded Daventry, and keeps the people in a state of terror. This monster requires, once a year, the sacrifice of a young maiden.
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Find some way to share that shield through the whole kingdom, and then you'd have a point. As it is, however, even if he has a reliable way to kill the dragon it would still do immense harm to anybody not bearing the shield.
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Jul 29, 2017 23:45
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Gnoman posted:Find some way to share that shield through the whole kingdom, and then you'd have a point. As it is, however, even if he has a reliable way to kill the dragon it would still do immense harm to anybody not bearing the shield. Which is why you take the shield, and your sword which you've demonstrated reasonable skill with, and you go and kill the dragon. Daft idiot probably just keeps trying to bridle the thing.
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Jul 29, 2017 23:51
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If only we had gone with killing the dragon back in KQ1 instead of going for maximum points...
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Jul 29, 2017 23:53
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That was a one-headed dragon, this is a new one with three heads. Graham still just has the one bucket so he's powerless to stop it.
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Jul 29, 2017 23:58
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Eh, sounds like the Oracle is just an inexperienced swordsman. Tell him he fights like a goat.
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Jul 30, 2017 00:10
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The first game has also explained that while the bearer of the shield is safe from harm, dragon's breath is enough to melt the shield until it no longer protects anyone.
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Jul 30, 2017 00:28
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Wait, so there's a 30 minute timer from the Oracle ... and Mannion's "journeys" take 30 minutes. Can you just wait till Mannion leaves and just haul rear end to the spider web and the rest of the game without polymorphing Mannion? Or is there some hidden trigger where he hunts your rear end down on one specific screen if you don't morph him regardless of the timer?
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Jul 30, 2017 01:39
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MagusofStars posted:Wait, so there's a 30 minute timer from the Oracle ... and Mannion's "journeys" take 30 minutes. Can you just wait till Mannion leaves and just haul rear end to the spider web and the rest of the game without polymorphing Mannion? Or is there some hidden trigger where he hunts your rear end down on one specific screen if you don't morph him regardless of the timer? It is not possible to leave Llewdor with Manannan alive, and the timer the Oracle gives is to get out of Llewdor (not beat the game). When we get to the point that he'd cause a problem, I'll point it out if DoubleNegative doesn't. Prism fucked around with this message at 01:53 on Jul 30, 2017 |
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Jul 30, 2017 01:48
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....wait, Gwydion is actually Graham's son? That seems kind of out of the blue
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Jul 30, 2017 03:29
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Aces High posted:....wait, Gwydion is actually Graham's son? That seems kind of out of the blue You actually learn this from the hens, birds, and chipmunks around Llewdor after you've completed the Understanding the Language of Creatures spell and have got the dough in your ears. They animals will gossip about "that poor human boy over there" and how Manannan kidnapped him from his cradle as a baby. Wasn't shown off in this update though. Prism posted:It is not possible to leave Llewdor with Manannan alive, and the timer the Oracle gives is to get out of Llewdor (not beat the game). I'm 99% sure it's possible to leave Llewdor with Manannan non-felinized. Good luck completing the rest of the game though. In fact, come to think of it, waiting out Manannan's journey/nap timer might very well be the reason why the loving pirate segment takes so god drat long. Bloops Crusts fucked around with this message at 03:50 on Jul 30, 2017 |
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Jul 30, 2017 03:45
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Nidoking posted:The first game has also explained that while the bearer of the shield is safe from harm, dragon's breath is enough to melt the shield until it no longer protects anyone. Is that something exclusive to the original version? The version DoubleNegative LPed didn't say anything about that, and I've never been a big fan of playing Sierra adventure games. Love following LPs of them, but I never had patience for the BS they pull on the player.
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Jul 30, 2017 04:41
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So, wait, the prince got kidnapped as an infant by an evil wizard and they just... kinda, let it go? Even if Manannan didn't leave a trail, did we not have any passing fairytale soothsayers who could have told us where the prince was taken? Did Graham have too much on his plate to undertake, or send knights on, a quest to FIND AND RESCUE HIS MALE HEIR? For that matter, why did Manannan even kidnap a prince, instead of some poor peasant's son? The disappearance of a royal infant is not inconspicuous!!
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Jul 30, 2017 05:49
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GeminiSun posted:So, wait, the prince got kidnapped as an infant by an evil wizard and they just... kinda, let it go? Even if Manannan didn't leave a trail, did we not have any passing fairytale soothsayers who could have told us where the prince was taken? Did Graham have too much on his plate to undertake, or send knights on, a quest to FIND AND RESCUE HIS MALE HEIR? For that matter, why did Manannan even kidnap a prince, instead of some poor peasant's son? The disappearance of a royal infant is not inconspicuous!!
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Jul 30, 2017 05:55
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Tiggum posted:Also doesn't Graham have a magic mirror that could have told him exactly where his son had been taken and by whom? Evil wizard blocks spells. Just ask the magic map. And they did look for him.
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Jul 30, 2017 05:57
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GeminiSun posted:For that matter, why did Manannan even kidnap a prince, instead of some poor peasant's son? The disappearance of a royal infant is not inconspicuous!! MagusofStars fucked around with this message at 06:46 on Jul 30, 2017 |
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Jul 30, 2017 06:44
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We saw how it happened. He was walking around the forest when he walked into the wizard who kidnapped the baby (and everything else) he was holding. WTF Graham! You KNEW that forest was dangerous! I never saw that screen of inside the tree as a fly. Huh.
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Jul 30, 2017 08:52
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Randalor posted:Is that something exclusive to the original version? The version DoubleNegative LPed didn't say anything about that, and I've never been a big fan of playing Sierra adventure games. Love following LPs of them, but I never had patience for the BS they pull on the player. It is. Both Sierra and AGDI remakes force you to get the mirror and the chest before the shield location becomes accessible. The original AGI version allowed you to get the shield first and no-sell the threat from the giant guarding the chest. Didn't work with the dragon guarding the mirror though. The game points out that the flames from the dragon melt the shield. (and then you) So basically, the shield's bearer is invulnerable, but the shield itself is not.  Tiggum posted:Also doesn't Graham have a magic mirror that could have told him exactly where his son had been taken and by whom? This game actually gets into that.
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Jul 30, 2017 08:55
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MagusofStars posted:I don't know if this is true in this game, but traditional mythologies and legends usually give Royalty and Noble Blood more value and magical power than random commoners. Blood sacrifices in particular are usually stated or implied to be much more effective with a noble (typically a virgin princess) than just a nameless peasant.
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Jul 30, 2017 09:14
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I suppose blood sacrifice waits for no man, but couldn't it have waited like ten more minutes?
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Jul 30, 2017 09:52
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Erpy posted:The game points out that the flames from the dragon melt the shield. (and then you) So basically, the shield's bearer is invulnerable, but the shield itself is not. This seems like a pretty big design flaw. gently caress people from R&D who never get to use their gizmos in the field.
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Jul 30, 2017 09:59
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I spent a lot of time trying to work out everything in the remake of King's Quest I as a kid (though I never realised you could kill the witch, alas) and I'm trying to remember how I managed to experiment on the shield. It definitely is possible to get the mirror without killing/watering the dragon. The fairy grandmother's spell will protect you from the dragon's fire, and you can just waltz up to it and reclaim the mirror. That's actually the way I worked out how to get it first, before I found the dagger. So theoretically, if you could get the mirror that way, you could come back later with the shield to test it against the dragon in the remake. It sounds like the sort of poo poo I used to do, but if I ever did it I can't remember the outcome.
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Jul 30, 2017 10:10
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Fat Samurai posted:This seems like a pretty big design flaw. gently caress people from R&D who never get to use their gizmos in the field. That is why, after they were done, they were all.... fired. 
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Jul 30, 2017 11:09
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RoboRodent posted:I spent a lot of time trying to work out everything in the remake of King's Quest I as a kid (though I never realised you could kill the witch, alas) and I'm trying to remember how I managed to experiment on the shield. It definitely is possible to get the mirror without killing/watering the dragon. The fairy grandmother's spell will protect you from the dragon's fire, and you can just waltz up to it and reclaim the mirror. That's actually the way I worked out how to get it first, before I found the dagger. Theoretically, but probably not in practice. My memory's a bit sketchy on this, but I'm fairly sure that in the remakes, once you have all three treasures, you can't enter the well anymore. You'll get a message in the spirit of "Don't waste any more time, you've got the treasures, return to the castle already".
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Jul 30, 2017 11:24
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Makes me smile to see there are *still* people who are taken aback by the plot twist in this game 30 years later. Believe it or not, there were lots and lots of King's Quest fans who were really attached to King Graham and Daventry back in 1986, and more than one of them flipped a lid when they heard this game was going to star some random slave-boy in a completely different country. "It's not even a KING'S quest anymore!" they said. The plot twist is why I said, this game's story is clever in a way none of the other games are. KQ6 is up there too. Tiggum posted:Also doesn't Graham have a magic mirror that could have told him exactly where his son had been taken and by whom?  Randalor posted:Is that something exclusive to the original version? The version DoubleNegative LPed didn't say anything about that, and I've never been a big fan of playing Sierra adventure games. Love following LPs of them, but I never had patience for the BS they pull on the player. He was playing a different version of the game than the 1983 PCjr release. In the 1983 original, you could get the treasures in any order. ABC, ACB, BAC, BCA, CAB, CBA. Didn't matter. The only things you needed to get the shield with maximum points were the cheese (to get past the rat), the fiddle (to get past the leprechauns), and the mushroom (to get out). Well, you got the cheese by just walking in and out of the witch's house and raiding her cupboards along the way. You got the fiddle by trading a bowl you found in the middle of nowhere. And the mushroom was right there for the taking. So there's not any item you picked up in the process of getting the mirror or chest which you actually *needed* to complete the quest for the shield. You could get it first, if you wanted. In fact, there was a glitch in the original game that even allowed you to *walk* across the river over to the island with the island with the leprechaun hole. There was a one-pixel-high line running along the bottom of the screen which *looked* like river, but hadn't been *programmed* to act like river, and worked functionally the same as land. So you could even bypass the condor if you wanted, though it was an exploit. Once you had the shield, all of the other enemies that populated the game world would no longer be a threat to you. On certain screens in the original game, you had a chance of encountering ogres, wolves, the dwarf, and of course the witch... None of them would be able to hurt you anymore after you had the shield, because it "protects the bearer from all mortal harm." I don't remember if the shield worked on the giant too. But the one thing it didn't work on was the dragon. Its fire would always melt the shield, and then kill you. Fair enough, I think. Dragons are powerful magical creatures, and who's the say the shield wasn't forged in dragon's fire in the first place? You can invent any number of fantasy explanations as to why. In the remakes, they removed all possibility of getting the shield first by fixing the exploit and disabling the condor spawn until after you already had the chest and mirror. So the shield would always be the last thing you collected before you headed back to Castle Daventry in time to see King Edward croak.
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Jul 30, 2017 13:17
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One correction: The witch still kills you if you have the shield, because she just picks you up and dump you in a cell. The dwarf is also still a threat, because he can steal any of the Three Treasures. I did a video years ago with the main purpose of trying out the shield in every situation, just to see how things like that would work.
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Jul 30, 2017 13:56
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Nidoking posted:One correction: The witch still kills you if you have the shield, because she just picks you up and dump you in a cell. The dwarf is also still a threat, because he can steal any of the Three Treasures. I did a video years ago with the main purpose of trying out the shield in every situation, just to see how things like that would work. Thanks. =) That stupid dwarf!
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Jul 30, 2017 18:09
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GeminiSun posted:For that matter, why did Manannan even kidnap a prince, instead of some poor peasant's son? Because this isn't Peasant's Quest.
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Jul 30, 2017 20:35
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Erpy posted:Theoretically, but probably not in practice. My memory's a bit sketchy on this, but I'm fairly sure that in the remakes, once you have all three treasures, you can't enter the well anymore. You'll get a message in the spirit of "Don't waste any more time, you've got the treasures, return to the castle already". ... yes, this rings a bell.
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Jul 30, 2017 20:45
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 Well poo poo. I guess Gwydion's a prince. Well, after more than half the game passing, we finally have our quest. Gotta save a sister we've never met and a homeland we've never known from destruction. Kind of a tall order, to be honest.  In order to accomplish this quest, there are three more spells we need to prepare. Don't forget that we are now under a hard time limit of half an hour.  Thankfully, the amber stone was the last ingredient we needed. By the way, I fell off of the path up to the house twice.   So, let's get those three spells prepared and be on our way. >get toadstool >get spittle  : The cream-colored toadstool powder is finely textured and nearly odorless. : Toad spittle is unpleasant stuff (to say the least). : Prince Gwydion removes the jars of Toadstool Powder and Toad Spittle from the laboratory shelf.>turn to page vii >eat salt : A strange feeling comes over Gwydion. He wonders if he could have made a mistake! : It appears that stone has a flaw.Judging by the death message, you might imagine that the stone is flawed. No, it's because Gwydion has pica and can't resist eating everything. Anyway, here's our next spell...  >turn to page vii >grind salt in mortar >grind mistletoe in mortar >rub stone in mixture : Gwydion places the beautiful amber stone in the mortar. Very carefully, so as not to miss a single spot, he rubs the amber stone around in the mixture of ground salt and mistletoe. When he has finished, he removes the amber stone and discards the remaining powder.>kiss stone  >wave wand  >turn to page lxxxiv >drink ocean water : A strange feeling comes over Gwydion. He wonders if he could have made a mistake! : There's no silver lining in this cloud, Gwydion.Right. So the last spell we made was optional, but worth points all the same. These next two are absolutely integral to completing the game. We actually can't win if we don't make them.  The Sorcery of Old is a very thick book. Page LXXXIV is mercifully the longest page number we have to type in, but it's not the farthest in the book we have to turn. >put ocean water in bowl >light brazier >heat bowl on brazier : Being cautious not to burn himself, Gwydion gently places the bowl of ocean water on the hot charcoal brazier. He watches as the salt water slowly warns, then begins to steam. He removes it just before it boils.>put mud in bowl : Adding a spoonful of mud to the hot ocean water, Gwydion slowly stirs the mixture. The mud turns the water a cloudy brown.>add pinch of toadstool powder >blow into brew : Leaning over the hot brew, Gwydion forcefully blows his longest breath of air into the bowl, whirling the brew around and around. >wave wand >put storm brew in jar : Waiting until the liquid has cooled, Gwydion carefully pours the storm brew into an empty glass jar.>turn to page clxix That's page 169. >eat cactus  No gif necessary for this one. Gwydion is just gone. : Gwydion! Oh, Gwydion! (What Gwydion? Where??) Alright, so this is the final spell we need to cast.  Compared to some of the others we've cast, it's mercifully non-complex.>turn to page clxix >cut cactus with knife : Using his kitchen carving knife, Gwydion cuts a gash in the small cactus. Juice begins to drip.>squeeze cactus juice onto spoon : Grabbing one of the measuring spoons from the oaken table, Gwydion grasps the slit catcus in his hand, and squeezes it until he has a spoonful of cactus juice. The small cactus is quite devoid of liquid now, so he tosses it away.>put cactus juice in bowl >put lard in bowl : Gwydion scrapes the lard into the mixing bowl, and keeps the now-empty jar nearby to store the finished formula.>add toad spittle >stir mixture with spoon  That's not a very good rhyme. >wave wand >put ointment in jar : Gwydion scoops the invisibility ointment out of the clay bowl and returns it to the lard jar. Having successfully completed the spell, he looks at the wizard's laboratory for the last time.  : The dirty-brown storm brew sloshes around in the half-filled glass jar. : The amber stone was a beautiful reddish-yellow, but it is now encrusted with salt and mistletoe powder. : The jar of invisibility ointment is nearly full of a thick, oily substance. : Gwydion was normally the sentimental type. But he gave the house not even a passing thought as he looked at the magic map to leave it for the last time. He had endured nearly eighteen years of abuse in that horrible place and wanted nothing more to do with it. So just like that, he left for the small village in Llewdor.  These fellows look trustworthy. >talk to captain : The sailors peer at Gwydion through bleary eyes, and continue swilling their rum. One, who looks like a captain, pauses, and drunkenly slurs... : Aye, me bucko, be ya wantin' passage on me ship? Whatcha runnin' from? Aw, s'no matter. 's long as ya got gold. Les me see how much ya got!These fine chaps are obviously pirates. Gwydion, thanks to Manannan's sheltered upbringing, has no idea. So let's play along and see where this takes us... >give gold to captain : As Gwydion brins out the purse, the captain snatches it from his hand.: Aye lad, I sees ya do have a wee bit 'o gold. It's less'n me reg'lar fare, but I'll gives ya passage anyways. We'll be waitin' fer ya at the wharf, but not fer long.: The captain and his men down their run in one long draught, then leave the tavern.  It is a pretty nice ship.  : As the gangplank is drawn in, Gwydion hears the Captain shout to his men.: Take 'is things an put 'im in the 'old until I figures out what ta do with 'im.: Gwydion has a sneaking suspicion that he has made a bit mistake. These are pirates!By the way, if we hadn't turned Manannan into a kitty cat, this is where he would appear to strike you dead, regardless of what he was previously doing. This ship here is also the hard time limit I mentioned. Once you finish the Oracle sequence, the pirates pull into port, and leave after exactly half an hour has passed. NEXT TIME: The infamous ship sequence. List of Points +1 - Powdered toadstools +1 - Toad drool +10 - Kissed a rock +10 - Boiled seawater and put mud in it +10 - Lard makes you invisible +3 - Bought passage from Llewdor Total: 172/210 Register of Deaths Falling off the mountain path x2 Teleport accident Storms are brewing on your head x3 Where did you go, Gwydion? x2
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Aug 1, 2017 21:47
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DoubleNegative posted:This ship here is also the hard time limit I mentioned. Once you finish the Oracle sequence, the pirates pull into port, and leave after exactly half an hour has passed. I remember wondering if you could use the amber stone in this case to try to get to Daventry. Tempted to load the game up and play with it.
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Aug 1, 2017 22:35
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sfwarlock posted:I remember wondering if you could use the amber stone in this case to try to get to Daventry. Tempted to load the game up and play with it. It won't ever teleport you from Llewdor to Daventry (or vice versa, and in fact IIRC using it in Daventry has very limited results at all). It also has some other limitations; it won't take you back up the mountain, and I don't think it will take you down the mountain if you use it from inside Manannan's house either. I don't remember what it does while you are actually on the pirate ship. The boring answer is that it probably moves you around the ship; the Sierra answer would be that it dumps you in the ocean and you drown. Prism fucked around with this message at 00:27 on Aug 2, 2017 |
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Aug 2, 2017 00:25
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I THINK once you're on the ship you might be able to use it to teleport to the place the ship is going. But it's been too long to remember my test results. As a kid I wrote up my own walkthroughs for these, complete with all the cheat codes, so I might have been teleporting via cheat. Lost the text files long ago, can't remember.
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Aug 2, 2017 00:55
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oh no the pirates stole all your spell components, what is a wizard-in-training to do?
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Aug 2, 2017 01:03
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Aces High posted:oh no the pirates stole all your spell components, what is a wizard-in-training to do? Even worst they are going to put an adventure game protagonist in a locked room without his inventory. The fewer the options the faster he'll escape.
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Aug 2, 2017 01:19
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Bar Crow posted:Even worst they are going to put an adventure game protagonist in a locked room without his inventory. The fewer the options the faster he'll escape. Can verify the solution to getting out doesn't involve a newspaper, a key, OR a keyhole My memory is that if you haven't dealt with Manannan by this point, he will definitely show up on the ship to kill you. (He'll teleport into the ship's hold, which we'll see next update.) The teleportation stone is mostly useless since the magic map fulfills basically the same purpose only better, but it can be a fun way to troll the pirates and kill time on the ship. It's best used for getting out of dangerous situations (aka when an enemy is about to reach you.) The pirate ship is basically the worst part of the game because it involves a lot of waiting and a bare minimum of doing anything.
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Aug 2, 2017 01:32
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If you waste your half an hour and the pirates leave without you, does the game actually tell you that you're done? Or do you just wander around in limbo forever?
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Aug 2, 2017 02:00
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The teleport stone is useful for bypassing one obstacle beyond the ship. Pretty sure you won't get full points though if you do that. Not that I cared when I was a kid 
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Aug 2, 2017 02:11
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It's okay, guys, I know how to get us out of here. First we need to find the mural of all the children of the world holding hands.
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Aug 2, 2017 03:50
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| # ? May 9, 2024 22:54 |
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Bloops Crusts posted:The pirate ship is basically the worst part of the game because it involves a lot of waiting and a bare minimum of doing anything. I love this part...hey, now that you've figured out the solution is a spoiler, let's have it be a death if you do it 1 second too early!
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Aug 2, 2017 04:04
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