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I feel with the sanctions on Maduro the peaceful escape for him is running out of options. It's now extremely unlikely any nation will accept him for asylum if he were willing to flee. He's writing his own inevitable end here. This can only last so long before he's killed by the military or a someone else who desires more power within his party due to his own incompetence.
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Jul 31, 2017 23:12
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ComradeCosmobot posted:There's a story about that. Welp, that backfired spectacularly then...
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Jul 31, 2017 23:16
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Meh. I think R. Guyovich is a tool, but I'll take the relative indifference to opinions he dislikes rather than actively probating/banning people who have them like some older D&D mods used to do.
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Jul 31, 2017 23:18
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MullardEL34 posted:Welp, that backfired spectacularly then... To the contrary, it worked extremely well at running out most of the high-quality posters who didn't want to deal with the influx of unmoderated tankies and Trump-fans, which was always the goal of that offsite, who were just in it "for the lulz" and to make it safe to out transgender folks without repercussions.
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Jul 31, 2017 23:20
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ComradeCosmobot posted:To the contrary, it worked extremely well at running out most of the high-quality posters who didn't want to deal with the influx of unmoderated tankies and Trump-fans, which was always the goal of that offsite, who were just in it "for the lulz" and to make it safe to out transgender folks without repercussions. Was it something sensitive? Government has announced some new regional elections and people are afraid that this is going to cause a split for MUD. JailTrump fucked around with this message at 23:47 on Jul 31, 2017 |
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Jul 31, 2017 23:38
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JailTrump posted:Was it something sensitive? No.
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Aug 1, 2017 00:12
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ugh its Troika posted:Meh. I think R. Guyovich is a tool, but I'll take the relative indifference to opinions he dislikes rather than actively probating/banning people who have them like some older D&D mods used to do. The net, at least in D&D, is a much safer space for tankie retards. I, of course, mean that in the nicest way possible. If the answer to your question is "warmed over Homework Explainer" than perhaps the question requires reconsideration. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Aug 1, 2017 00:18
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JailTrump posted:Let's look at his twitter feed. Bitching about "manufactured" Russian hysteria. How's the whole Son of the loving president live-tweeting incriminating emails treating you mr Blumenthal? Oh look, a card carrying member of the #resistance who loving loves US foreign intervention. A liberal who swallowed the CIA syrian propaganda whole and refuses to admit he was wrong despite the mountains of evidence that the US was straight up arming terrorists and not "rebels" in Syria. Makes sense that you would actively downplay the possibility of CIA involvement in Venezuela.
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Aug 1, 2017 00:24
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Scent of Worf posted:Oh look, a card carrying member of the #resistance who loving loves US foreign intervention. A liberal who swallowed the CIA syrian propaganda whole and refuses to admit he was wrong despite the mountains of evidence that the US was straight up arming terrorists and not "rebels" in Syria. Makes sense that you would actively downplay the possibility of CIA involvement in Venezuela. Would you like to present your evidence of current CIA involvement in VZ?
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Aug 1, 2017 00:28
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gobbagool posted:Would you like to present your evidence of current CIA involvement in VZ? http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/cia-venezuela-crisis-government-mike-pompeo-helping-install-new-remarks-a7859771.html Pompeo pretty much admitting that they're working on regime change https://www.state.gov/documents/organization/101425.pdf US has spent tens of millions funding the opposition in Venezuela
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Aug 1, 2017 00:35
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Maybe the enemy of your enemy isn't your friend. I get being leery of US involvement in Latin America -- hell, I've defended the Cuban government on occasion, and they're pretty bad -- but Venezuela right now is, by all accounts, extremely hosed, and if a touch US imperialism is the price needed to pay to get Maduro the gently caress out of power, then it might be there's no other choice. Chavez was a lot of bad and a dash of good, but what he created in the hands of a man much less competent than he was, is quite obviously a completely unsalvageable disaster.
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Aug 1, 2017 00:41
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gobbagool posted:Would you like to present your evidence of current CIA involvement in VZ? Latin Americans do not have agency and are in fact incapable of existing as anything other than either an imperialist stooge or a noble revolutionary.
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Aug 1, 2017 00:46
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Well, wrap it up venezolanos. You're on the same side as the US so you should just give up now and go back to supporting the PSUV, since otherwise you're just playing into the US's hands.
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Aug 1, 2017 00:46
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Scent of Worf posted:http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/cia-venezuela-crisis-government-mike-pompeo-helping-install-new-remarks-a7859771.html No, no he didn't. quote:CIA director Mike Pompeo said he was “hopeful that there can be a transition in Venezuela and we the CIA is doing its best to understand the dynamic there”. That's the most generic boilerplate, 'we sure hope everything works out' that could be said. He could have said that in response to a Canadian election and no one would bat an eye.
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Aug 1, 2017 00:52
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It doesn't matter, America has signaled that they do not like the current Venezuelan government, therefore by definition any effort to change that government (whether by ballot or by protest or by violence) is in support of imperialism and cannot be countenanced. Any trifling circumstances pertaining to individual hardship are irrelevant to the matter at hand; and besides, any good person should be proud and happy to bear any amount of suffering to oppose the empire.
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Aug 1, 2017 00:58
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How much can the CIA even do when the opposition is completely disarmed and the military, state security forces, and armed criminal gangs are firmly under regime control? This isn't a situation where there is some kind of armed insurgency or rogue military element that can be supported, it's a bunch of civilians with wooden shields building street barricades out of trash trying to protect their neighborhoods from armed thugs on motorbikes.
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Aug 1, 2017 01:03
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Lord Harbor posted:No, no he didn't. Seems like you already had your mind made up before you even checked out the evidence. I'm sure you would have been pulling the same obtuse act during the CIA coup of Chavez in 2002.
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Aug 1, 2017 01:04
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sincerely held opinions aren't trolling and if you are as obviously right as you believe yourself to be you shouldn't have a problem defending your position without reporting posts that follow the forum rules. the only sincere posts i'll punish are ones i find racist, sexist, etc. which includes fascism. this might strike some people as unfair (lol) but i've never pretended to be a free speech absolutist. if you don't like that, too bad. gobbagool posted:The net, at least in D&D, is a much safer space for tankie retards. I, of course, mean that in the nicest way possible. If the answer to your question is "warmed over Homework Explainer" than perhaps the question requires reconsideration.  Mozi posted:Thanks Mods for keeping this thread on track and readable, your strenuous efforts are always appreciated. i was out of town for the weekend and am now going through reports. please post about venezuela in the venezuela thread and take complaints about moderation to qcs.
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Aug 1, 2017 01:06
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Farmer Crack-rear end posted:It doesn't matter, America has signaled that they do not like the current Venezuelan government, therefore by definition any effort to change that government (whether by ballot or by protest or by violence) is in support of imperialism and cannot be countenanced. Any trifling circumstances pertaining to individual hardship are irrelevant to the matter at hand; and besides, any good person should be proud and happy to bear any amount of suffering to oppose the empire. The funny thing is that I'm pretty sure the US government will take any government that will actually sort out the PDVSA's poo poo.
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Aug 1, 2017 01:10
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In the pages and pages of noble educators elevating the Latin American savages through handpicked tweets I missed what happened to the venegoon who's sister was having trouble making it to Mexico. Was there an update on that? Wouldn't have wanted to have to go back this weekend of all weekends.
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Aug 1, 2017 01:10
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Ghost of Mussolini posted:In the pages and pages of noble educators elevating the Latin American savages through handpicked tweets I missed what happened to the venegoon who's sister was having trouble making it to Mexico. Was there an update on that? Wouldn't have wanted to have to go back this weekend of all weekends. Pretty sure she was sent back to Venezuela along with everyone else on her flight.
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Aug 1, 2017 01:12
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Feinne posted:The funny thing is that I'm pretty sure the US government will take any government that will actually sort out the PDVSA's poo poo. I feel bad for any government that will have to take on that mess. I'm surprised that PDVSA's crumbling infrastructure hasn't caused a massive environmental disaster yet.
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Aug 1, 2017 01:13
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Scent of Worf posted:Oh look, a card carrying member of the #resistance who loving loves US foreign intervention. A liberal who swallowed the CIA syrian propaganda whole and refuses to admit he was wrong despite the mountains of evidence that the US was straight up arming terrorists and not "rebels" in Syria. Makes sense that you would actively downplay the possibility of CIA involvement in Venezuela. You seem to think it matters massively to me that the US funded "Terrorists" in Syria. I really don't care. "Terrorism" tends to be a bogey word. One man's terrorist is often another man's freedom fighter. The situation on the ground is complete hell due to the failors - caused by Republicans - of American Foreign Policy here. The US Intervention in Syria should have occurred much sooner - just like Libya. Obama's biggest mistake was not intervening sooner - due to the criticism he received from the left - which he should have not received - over his intervention in Libya. He tried to pass legislation in congress to intervene in Syria - and he failed. If he had intervened earlier I believe the bloodshed could of been stymied, and Assad forced out quickly just as Gaddafi in Libya. I very much regret the US's hesistance to intervene in events like the Genocides in Rwanda, and Darfur due to backlashes at home and lack of moral backbone of our leaders. A central part of American foreign policy should be quick immediate intervention in events that could evolve to genocide as we did in libya
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Aug 1, 2017 01:44
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JailTrump posted:You seem to think it matters massively to me that the US funded "Terrorists" in Syria. I really don't care. "Terrorism" tends to be a bogey word. One man's terrorist is often another man's freedom fighter. The situation on the ground is complete hell due to the failors - caused by Republicans - of American Foreign Policy here. The "Libya is about to turn into a genocide" was conclusively declared bullshit after the fact by the governments that supported the intervention, hth. But hey, the west's strong moral backbone reignited literal slave markets in Tripoli, gj.
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Aug 1, 2017 01:49
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Agnosticnixie posted:The "Libya is about to turn into a genocide" was conclusively declared bullshit after the fact by the governments that supported the intervention, hth. But hey, the west's strong moral backbone reignited literal slave markets in Tripoli, gj. The fact that Syria turned into genocide makes it hard for me to believe that. And by the governments that supported the intervention you mean the opposition parties in the US, so yeah. Better safe than sorry. Also LOL if you think slavery didn't exist in Libya under Gadaffi. Do people even remember his female sex slave guards?
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Aug 1, 2017 01:52
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MullardEL34 posted:I feel bad for any government that will have to take on that mess. I'm surprised that PDVSA's crumbling infrastructure hasn't caused a massive environmental disaster yet. Counterpoint: How would anyone know if it did happen?
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Aug 1, 2017 02:14
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Homeroom Fingering posted:I see we made it to the Not True Socialism part of the hand waving. I don't think it's controversial to say that the ideal government envisioned by, say, Jeremy Corbyn looks nothing like what's happening in Venezuela.
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Aug 1, 2017 02:14
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DAD LOST MY IPOD posted:I don't think it's controversial to say that the ideal government envisioned by, say, Jeremy Corbyn looks nothing like what's happening in Venezuela. But Jeremy Corbyn isn't a Socialist. You can either defend the Government as is as Socialist and claim interventionism or imperialism or drop it and recognize that it deserves to be shut down and stopped. Oh what a horrid catch-22 for the tankies.
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Aug 1, 2017 02:16
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Ghost of Mussolini posted:In the pages and pages of noble educators elevating the Latin American savages through handpicked tweets I missed what happened to the venegoon who's sister was having trouble making it to Mexico. Was there an update on that? Wouldn't have wanted to have to go back this weekend of all weekends. That would be me. She managed to get back home on Saturday. She could've gotten back to the nation on Friday along with the rest of that flight's Venezuelans, but our Mexican friends (the ones that were to host her for a month) managed to get a flight plan change from Copa Airlines because she would've been sent to Maiquetia instead of her true departure point in Valencia and my mother wasn't looking forward to anyone having to cross the No Man's Land that's Caracas to pick her up during that weekend... That said, she's still getting help from many sources to get out of the country fast. Specially because the main rumor going around is that the first measure the ANC is gonna execute once established seems to be severe Travel Limitations.
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Aug 1, 2017 02:31
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Thug Lessons posted:I feel like I'm winning this argument because neither you nor anyone else is making any sort of positive argument about how right-wing economic policies, which necessarily include cutting support for the most vulnerable people here, are going to solve this. But Venezuela is already engaging in right wing economic policies? You're not avoiding right-wing economic policies by keeping Maduro in, as Maduro has allowed the situation to fully devolve from the Chavez promise of the early 2000s. It is far more likely that you get left wing economics again if Maduro goes away, he is an obstacle to proper implementation of leftism and the 1999 constitution. Agnosticnixie posted:"To save Venezuela from the mirage of a Pinochet-like figure, we need to install a honest to god Pinochet figure" Glad to hear you support Pinochet as long as he's already in power, rather than the likelihood of bringing leftism back to Venezuela. But it's pretty telling that the only thing you think could possibly replace Maduro is another right wing kleptocrat.
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Aug 1, 2017 02:31
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AstraSage posted:That would be me. I think they'll probably start by removing the immunity from the National Assembly deputies and unseating Luisa Ortega. I don't want to sound like a "No vale yo no creo" lunatic, but I don't really see the benefit in limiting travel outside of pissing off people. Things are already at the point where only people with access to hard currency (basically no one) can leave the country so we already have de-facto travel limitations. Of course, I wouldn't put it off too long either since chances are more airlines will be leaving soon. I was planning to bail in November, but now I'm probably going to get the hell out faster. I don't want to stick around to find out if my take on travel limitations is wrong.
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Aug 1, 2017 02:42
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Labradoodle posted:Of course, I wouldn't put it off too long either since chances are more airlines will be leaving soon. I was planning to bail in November, but now I'm probably going to get the hell out faster. I don't want to stick around to find out if my take on travel limitations is wrong. Where are you gonna go?
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Aug 1, 2017 02:53
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The members of the MUD seem to be infighting - at least that is the latest rumour. Could be completely wrong. The PSUV - evil as they are are dangling a carrot in front of the left-wing members of the party by announcing regional elections. While the more extremist factions believe organizing a parallel government and obtaining international recognition is the best course of action, Ramos Allup - elected leader of the MUD - seems to believe that the opposition isn't capable of protecting a parallel government and that those figures would end up arrested - like the new members they had assigned to the supreme court earlier this month. Of course these are only rumours, but given the state of just how rigged elections were on Sunday (and potentially historically) playing into the regional elections by fielding candidates would be a bad plan of action for the MUD IMO.
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Aug 1, 2017 03:13
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Labradoodle posted:Of course, I wouldn't put it off too long either since chances are more airlines will be leaving soon. I was planning to bail in November, but now I'm probably going to get the hell out faster. I don't want to stick around to find out if my take on travel limitations is wrong. Once the Kulaks have fled (or been liquidated) prosperity will return.
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Aug 1, 2017 03:28
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It turns out that Maduro is only the fourth serving head of state in the history of heads of state to ever be sanctioned by the United States. The other three are Robert Mugabe, Bashar al Assad and Kim Jong-Un. Some company! The opposition is worried that the Constituent Assembly will evict them from the legislature. I can't find a source for it right now, but Diosdado Cabello (who is the frontrunner to be in charge of the Constituent Assembly) said recently that they would in fact meet in the National Assembly building, so presumably the legislators (including the PSUV ones!) would get evicted. National Assembly vice-president Freddy Guevara spoke today on the possibility that the PSUV might try to kick them out of the building, saying: quote:We have to do whatever it takes to defend ourselves. However, we are not violent and we do not have weapons. If they want to remove us from here they have the means to do it: brute force. They will have to remove us from here, because we are going to remain here in defiance. I think that Ortega Diaz's role in all of this often gets overlooked. This is the attorney general, the head of the Public Ministry, the top law enforcer in the country saying that her own government is a corrupt dictatorship that commits "systematic crimes against humanity". She's saying those things about her own party. Ortega Diaz was attorney general under Chavez and has been a top chavista since way back. JailTrump posted:The members of the MUD seem to be infighting - at least that is the latest rumour. Could be completely wrong. Do you have a source for this? There are two general rules to keep in mind when following news from Venezuela: 1) Nothing is too strange or stupid to be real, and 2) Don't believe rumours. I think social media plays a huge role in the creation and spreading of rumours, but for some reason I get the feeling that Venezuela is the rumour capital of the world. The PSUV announced the date for the regional elections (December 10) months ago. The fear is that with the Constituent Assembly they will cancel them again, but that's just a rumour right now.
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Aug 1, 2017 03:43
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JailTrump posted:Let's look at his twitter feed. Bitching about "manufactured" Russian hysteria. How's the whole Son of the loving president live-tweeting incriminating emails treating you mr Blumenthal? I apologize for setting this retard off in this thread. Good luck to the people of Venezuela. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Aug 1, 2017 03:59
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tekz posted:I apologize for setting this retard off in this thread. Good luck to the people of Venezuela. 
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Aug 1, 2017 04:15
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Chuck Boone posted:
Is the AG in Venezuela elected or appointed by the executive? And if it's the latter how has Maduro not fired and imprisoned her yet?
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Aug 1, 2017 04:15
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Amused to Death posted:Is the AG in Venezuela elected or appointed by the executive? And if it's the latter how has Maduro not fired and imprisoned her yet? The AG is appointed. Maduro's definitely going to fire her really soon (within days, likely), and she'll also be likely put in prison. The Supreme Court froze all of her assets at the end of June and banned her from leaving the country. For Luisa Ortega Diaz, it's a matter of when, not if. I don't know why Maduro hasn't gotten rid of her by now. I suspect that there might be some concern on his part that throwing her in jail immediately after she starts speaking out against the regime might look bad, but I don't know why he could care about that at this point. I guess that Maduro doesn't think that she can be a threat from inside the Public Ministry, specially since he controls the TSJ. Whatever institutional resistance Ortega Diaz can organize from inside the Public Ministry could be melted away with a couple of Supreme Court rulings, I think. Ortega Diaz has been attorney general since 2007. Many of the country's 500 or so political prisoners are in jail because of her. She was instrumental in locking up Leopoldo Lopez. When one of the prosecutors on the Lopez case defected and said that he had received orders from his superiors at the Public Ministry to falsify the entire case against Lopez, Ortega Diaz responded by saying that if he'd seen anything suspicious he should have simply said something about it. Ortega Diaz being a turncoat puts Maduro in a bit of a bind. He's on the record praising her and working alongside since for his entire presidency, and now he's forced to suddenly turn around and say that she's insane, corrupt, incapable of doing her job, etc. .
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Aug 1, 2017 04:23
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Chuck Boone posted:
My main source other than this thread is /r/vzla. Like I said it was a rumour. But yes- the vote has been announced for awhile but they are now announcing registration dates for potential candidates. http://www.talcualdigital.com/Nota/145994/freddy-guevara-versus-ramos-allup
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Aug 1, 2017 04:26
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