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That's a bit out of my reach. But a Porsche Certified Used Cayman around $30k to $40k CAD is very doable.
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Jul 31, 2017 00:42
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COTA isn't an awful track, it's a bit boring and it's location means it's too hot to race at in the summer. The problems with COTA are entirely down to how poorly it's been/is being run. And yeah without Dieselgate Audi would still be in WEC, Porsche wouldn't be leaving the WEC, and VW would probably be in WRC as well. They need all of that cash (altogether those three programs are what, easily more than half a billion euro a year?) and can stay in racing with Formula E, which, yeah, they'd probably still be going there.
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Jul 31, 2017 01:03
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What is it about German culture that makes them so prone to cheating?
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Jul 31, 2017 01:11
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Isn't COTA a Tilke track in the sense that all they did was make it so it abides by FIA standards? I thought it was designed by some other guys who aren't Tilke. The name does loving suck though.
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Jul 31, 2017 02:28
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keevo posted:Isn't COTA a Tilke track in the sense that all they did was make it so it abides by FIA standards? I thought it was designed by some other guys who aren't Tilke. The name does loving suck though. It was designed by Hermann Tilke. Most courses I've seen that he's wholly made are like what happens when someone gives a person access to a track designer and a grab bag of famous corners from tracks all over the world. The dude doesn't build tracks around the terrain like a good road course (including all the ones he copies), he just alters terrain to match his grab bag vision.
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Jul 31, 2017 02:33
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Tilke gets blamed a lot, but yeah the FIA are actually the ones responsible for crappy track designs, or mutilating old ones. His original designs, like Sepang and Turkey, are pretty good.
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Jul 31, 2017 02:33
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The real reason the track is loathed by """"some"""" posters has nothing to do with Tilke, and everything to do with the track's major event.
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Jul 31, 2017 02:35
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Human Grand Prix posted:Tilke gets blamed a lot, but yeah the FIA are actually the ones responsible for crappy track designs, or mutilating old ones. His original designs, like Sepang and Turkey, are pretty good. Yas Marina Exists. You have *that much money* and you make *that garbage of a track*? You need to stop designing tracks.
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Jul 31, 2017 02:42
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harperdc posted:And yeah without Dieselgate Audi would still be in WEC, Porsche wouldn't be leaving the WEC, and VW would probably be in WRC as well. They need all of that cash (altogether those three programs are what, easily more than half a billion euro a year?) and can stay in racing with Formula E, which, yeah, they'd probably still be going there. I think Ferdinand Piëch being forced out at VAG probably would've killed the double Audi/Porsche WEC programs regardless. LMP1-H is an engineer's dream and I can imagine that he was the main driver for VAG to invest effectively twice over in hybrid development. Had Dieselgate not happened, I still think Martin Winterkorn and Wolfgang Porsche would've pushed Audi into F1 to compete with their archrival Mercedes and Porsche would've stayed in LMP1-H to protect their legacy of endurance racing. And of course Volkswagen itself would no doubt still be in the WRC. LMP1-H had the misfortune to be hit by the ouster of Piëch, plus Dieselgate, and then F1 starting to get their poo poo back together after lean years of terrible racing and Bernie Ecclestone mismanagement, and IMSA not only surviving the merger but making the right decisions to thrive. It was a perfect coincidence of events to take it from the arguable pinnacle of motorsport in 2015 to walking dead in 2018. Also CotA makes for bad racing and I'm not sad to see it go
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Jul 31, 2017 03:37
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Human Grand Prix posted:The real reason the track is loathed by """"some"""" posters has nothing to do with Tilke, and everything to do with the track's major event. F1 is/was a disease, true, but even without that and even without all the other non-track related stuff (how it was funded, where it is, who designed it, the name, how its inevitably going to fail etc etc), I just dont find the track fun. I think its the combo of the huge multicolor runoff areas and the repugnant first half of the track with the repetitive midspeed esses. I like the long back straight and the high speed sweeper section (although its cancer for downforce racecars and following distances), but the whole thing seems so manufactured and generic. Its the McMansion of US racetracks. Pretty fitting that its in Texas.
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Jul 31, 2017 05:35
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Tilke made a track with a hairpin too tight for cars to navigate. Think about that.
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Jul 31, 2017 06:28
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COTA is a perfect example of why tracks designed with a literal blank page to be plonked down in the middle of nowhere are bad and tracks that have to be built taking account of pre-existing features and natural terrain are good.
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Jul 31, 2017 12:39
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Roller Coast Guard posted:COTA is a perfect example of why tracks designed with a literal blank page to be plonked down in the middle of nowhere are bad and tracks that have to be built taking account of pre-existing features and natural terrain are good. It's a good track Bront
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Jul 31, 2017 15:17
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COTA is fine. The main issue COTA has is that it seems to cause severe mental illness when discussed.
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Jul 31, 2017 15:33
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I wanna see NASCAR run at cota because they'll just straightline every corner because what's a track limits
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Jul 31, 2017 16:05
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COTA is one of the better modern F1 tracks, but it kinda sucks for any racing besides F1 (maybe MotoGP is also good on it?).
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Jul 31, 2017 16:17
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There isn't enough shade around coota. Also, due to soil erosion and poo poo weather the track is forming bumps in odd spots. I went earlier this year for IMSA and it was still hot as balls; I will be there in September where I am sure it will be hot again.
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Jul 31, 2017 16:32
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MazeOfTzeentch posted:I wanna see NASCAR run at cota because they'll just straightline every corner because what's a track limits They'd do the short course if anything. Not to mention it'll never happen because Bruton Smith would throw a hissy fit and ban them from using Texas Motor Speedway (like he's threatened to do with Indy if they went to COTA). The short course, for the record. 
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Jul 31, 2017 16:33
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I don't mind COTA. But in order for a venue like that to survive? You need multiple events running it. You need XFinity, you need the WEC/IMSA double header, and you likely need Indy.* The series I typed above? Insurance policies to ensure it doesn't wither away and turn into condos. *In the spring. I don't see how a race in March would effect attendance in June, Mr. Gossage.
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Jul 31, 2017 16:45
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I like COTA and I'm convinced people don't know what they like about tracks and racing .
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Jul 31, 2017 16:47
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Cota is alright but it's no Detroit street circuit.
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Jul 31, 2017 16:48
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I also enjoy chunks of concrete flying everywhere
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Jul 31, 2017 16:57
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In other IMSA news, Cooper MacNeil continues to be a big blubbering baby with a poopy diaper
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Jul 31, 2017 22:59
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Both COTA and Texas are garbage. Drag race to a hairpin is mostly dumb at any track but it's the absolute worst there and then the rest is boring too.
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Jul 31, 2017 23:09
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an oddly awful oud posted:In other IMSA news, Cooper MacNeil continues to be a big blubbering baby with a poopy diaper The irony being they cried BOP and dumped the Porsche for at least one race last year.
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Jul 31, 2017 23:15
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I know I'm late to it but COTA isn't a Tilke track. He designed tee infrastructure but the layout was done by Tavo Hellmund and Kevin Schwanz (sp? Some bike racer). And bits of it drive just fine, apart from that Mickey Mouse stadium complex. The track's real problem (other than a media center that's a windowless box) is that it's run by people who fundamentally don't understand racing. They forced Hellmund out ages ago, and now they run it as a concert venue that occasionally has annoying cars show up and race.
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Jul 31, 2017 23:38
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Reminds of the first year of the merger when all the ALMS teams got pissy that they had to race more than 1 or two other cars in a race.
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Jul 31, 2017 23:39
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Kevin Schwantz is one of the best motorcycle racers in the history of the United States.
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Jul 31, 2017 23:41
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orange juche posted:It was designed by Hermann Tilke. LOL, no it wasn't.
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Jul 31, 2017 23:41
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drgitlin posted:LOL, no it wasn't. The track has been designed by F1 architect Hermann Tilke, and construction will be overseen by Dallas-based construction company Austin Commercial. Yes, it was.
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Jul 31, 2017 23:49
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it doesn't matter who designed the track, the constraints placed on modern track design and especially those tracks meant for f1 assures that they are all poo poo regardless.
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Aug 1, 2017 00:02
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I want to see a multi-apex, descending radius, downhill, off-camber corner.
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Aug 1, 2017 00:31
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Bentai posted:I want to see a multi-apex, descending radius, downhill, off-camber corner. Then do I have the track for you! It's called L A G U N A S E C A.
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Aug 1, 2017 01:20
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Which corner is that, corkscrew?
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Aug 1, 2017 01:21
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Schlesische posted:The track has been designed by F1 architect Hermann Tilke, and construction will be overseen by Dallas-based construction company Austin Commercial. No, it wasn't. Tilke GmbH did the buildings and infrastructure, Hellmund and Schwanz came up with the layout: https://www.motorsport.com/tracks/circuit-of-the-americas/history/ http://www.motorsportmagazine.com/database/circuits/austin-cota https://www.redbull.com/us-en/best-hermann-tilke-track-f1-panel http://www.pressreader.com/usa/austin-american-statesman/20120424/282235187659023 I mean, even Wikipedia gets this right: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circuit_of_the_Americas
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Aug 1, 2017 01:27
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It doesn't matter who designed COTA becausedrgitlin posted:The track's real problem (other than a media center that's a windowless box) is that it's run by people who fundamentally don't understand racing. They forced Hellmund out ages ago, and now they run it as a concert venue that occasionally has annoying cars show up and race. It's run horribly. I'm all for international-quality race tracks in the US, but they run it so poorly.
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Aug 1, 2017 01:31
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Have WEC and F1 race at Sebring. They're not allowed to repave it.
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Aug 1, 2017 01:42
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Bentai posted:Which corner is that, corkscrew? Y E S
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Aug 1, 2017 01:45
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iospace posted:Have WEC and F1 race at Sebring. The first modern (2012~) WEC race was the Sebring 12hr. It would be cool to see return but I don't know what the interest or capability would be to run a second major event there. Not sure they want to have it "share" the 12 hours again either.
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Aug 1, 2017 01:47
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The merged series got rid of P1, and IMSA Proto manufacturers arent spending to run best in class behind cherry-picking P1s. If WEC mercifully killed P1 and used DPi, we could have a great merged WEC race at Sebring. (this will never happen)
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Aug 1, 2017 02:13
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