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Krispy Kareem posted:Because we'd have a government shutdown. Republicans have never come out of a government shutdown looking better than when they went in. Counterpoint: 2014. Literally nobody remembered 2013's shutdown.
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Aug 1, 2017 18:08
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DreamShipWrecked posted:Out of curiosity and my own ignorance, what is dishonest about it? I know it's nowhere near what they say it is since we owe money to people who also owe money to us, but borrowing without end is bad, no? 1. Countries aren't families and actually they can just keep borrowing forever and it is ok. Deficit spending is very helpful in times of economic slowdown. 2. The debt ceiling isn't about acquiring more debt, it is about paying debts already incurred. So this is about defaulting on loans not stopping us from taking out new loans. 3. Until recent Republican shananigans we didn't even have a debt limit because the idea is dumb. Congress could authorize the repayment of all debts incurred and we would never have this crisis again.
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Aug 1, 2017 18:09
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DreamShipWrecked posted:borrowing without end is bad, no? Like morally bad? Like a sin or something? Borrowing in and of itself isn't bad. Most companies and all governments have all sorts of loans in and out for various things. Neither are wrong or bad or harmful.
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Aug 1, 2017 18:09
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evilweasel posted:even iraq is much more hospitable to the US way of waging war because while the cities are hostile the terrain is still a loving desert, while north korea has mountains and forests and all that fun stuff that makes american technology have a much smaller edge, comparatively - it is much more ideal for asymmetric/guerrilla warfare done by actual guys lugging rifles around, rather than tank battles/artillery battles/bombing poo poo from the air In Smash Bros terms, Iraq is Final Destination with all the items turned off. Korea is some bullshit trap stage like Jungle Japes.
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Aug 1, 2017 18:10
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Krispy Kareem posted:Yes. Defaulting wouldn't just be a government shutdown, it would be an epoch defining moment in American and global economics.
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Aug 1, 2017 18:10
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The smartest thing we could have done during the great recession was to borrow a shitload of money and spend it on infrastructure and construction nationwide-- every city gets a public transit overhaul, we're building community centers all over the place, fiberoptic data cables to every household within 10 miles of civilization, that sort of poo poo. We only spent a crapload, which is why the stimulus was so meager.
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Aug 1, 2017 18:10
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sebmojo posted:wait what It's true! Look at the rap sheet. Also, the post got deleted.
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Aug 1, 2017 18:10
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Could Congress have a veto-proof vote to raise the debt-ceiling? Or does it not work like that?
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Aug 1, 2017 18:11
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Party Plane Jones posted:Counterpoint: 2014. Literally nobody remembered 2013's shutdown. Ted Cruz does.
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Aug 1, 2017 18:11
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Crows Turn Off posted:Could Congress have a veto-proof vote to raise the debt-ceiling? Or does it not work like that? Yup! Two-thirds majority in each house to override it. It would still need to go to the president's desk for signing or veto, and you know that if you sent it four days before the deadline, he'd let it sit for five days out of spite and let us default simply because he didn't get what he wanted.
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Aug 1, 2017 18:12
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Crows Turn Off posted:Could Congress have a veto-proof vote to raise the debt-ceiling? Or does it not work like that? Potentially, yes. Potentially. But that would require the GOP to get its poo poo together.
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Aug 1, 2017 18:12
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America defaulting on its debts would essentially be a very boring and mundane apocalypse. No one has any money and everyone starts killing each other in predictable ways, ho-hum.
Oxxidation fucked around with this message at 18:14 on Aug 1, 2017 |
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Aug 1, 2017 18:12
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I guess I should start short selling.
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Aug 1, 2017 18:13
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:I guess I should start short selling. A more pessimistic person wouldn't assume the markets will survive. A more optimistic person might try to avoid financial assets that will qualify them for a spot in line against the wall.
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Aug 1, 2017 18:16
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I don't understand why the Republicans wouldn't actively work towards a shutdown. A government shutdown accomplishes de facto what they can't accomplish de jure - a massive "destruction of the administrative state". What would prevent us from being permanently shutdown?
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Aug 1, 2017 18:18
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DreamShipWrecked posted:Out of curiosity and my own ignorance, what is dishonest about it? I know it's nowhere near what they say it is since we owe money to people who also owe money to us, but borrowing without end is bad, no? Watch this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KIbkoop4AYE
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Aug 1, 2017 18:18
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https://twitter.com/neeratanden/status/892133260498796544 Ugh
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Aug 1, 2017 18:18
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Did anyone see Jeff Flakes interview on Morning Joe? My God what a shitbag that guy is. Apparently he just wrote a book about how "concerned" he is with the current state of the GOP and how they are looking the other way at the insanity of the Trump admin. The kyron on the screen literally says: SEN FLAKE: " Ive been concerned for quite some time" So.much.bullshit.concern. He votes in lockstep with all the other GOP monsters and has the audacity to write a book about how theyve lost their way. It's too bad this state is so drat red because I know hes more likely to lose to an even worse shithead Republican in a primary then he is to lose to a Dem if he makes it to the general.
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Aug 1, 2017 18:19
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Enigma89 posted:She bombed poor brown people, so she is qualified to win some sort of election in America. She is a well educated, charismatic person with a distinguished career, a clean past, and she is a progressive, and she is portrayed well in the literature about her and her career. She's the ideal USMC Officer, and broke barriers herself. She is pretty much exactly the kind of candidate the Dems need, I don't understand how one can argue against that with a straight face.
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Aug 1, 2017 18:19
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Petr posted:It's true! Look at the rap sheet. Also, the post got deleted. Did he get probated because it wasn't at least 5,000 words?
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Aug 1, 2017 18:19
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the black husserl posted:I don't understand why the Republicans wouldn't actively work towards a shutdown. A government shutdown accomplishes de facto what they can't accomplish de jure - a massive "destruction of the administrative state". A government shutdown means the big government contractors don't get paid either. Federal services keeping their rural communities alive (USDA pest research etc) are curtailed and it is harder for them to grease federal wheels for rich friends. Republicans aren't anarchists, they want a government. Just one entirely at the whim of business and the wealthy.
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Aug 1, 2017 18:21
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the black husserl posted:
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Aug 1, 2017 18:21
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The government isn't (officially) in debt to bookies or anything that are going to unexpectedly call debts. So the thing is is that they probably could shuffle money around for quite a while to not literally permanently fail to return interest on bonds. So it's the kind of thing that would be both crazy bad but also a thing people would hype up as instant world end in a way that it probably wouldn't be that will open up people being called chicken little on a thing that is actually 4real actually bad.
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Aug 1, 2017 18:21
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Can't wait for the 2020 primaries where I get to be called both a sexist and racist for preferring Bernie's platform over Kamala's.
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Aug 1, 2017 18:21
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How difficult will passing a debt ceiling increase through congress be? Would democrats actually oppose it? Or are things so bad in the republican camp that they couldn't pass it even with democratic support?
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Aug 1, 2017 18:21
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Reik posted:Did he get probated because it wasn't at least 5,000 words? Nope, the probation was because of decency: quote:We generally prefer our walls of text to not be porn. User loses posting privileges for 3 days.
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Aug 1, 2017 18:22
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Trabisnikof posted:A more pessimistic person wouldn't assume the markets will survive. A more optimistic person might try to avoid financial assets that will qualify them for a spot in line against the wall. I'm assuming a moderately boring apocalypse. As a white bougie liberal I'm not sure there is a trulu dystopian future where I survive
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Aug 1, 2017 18:22
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mango sentinel posted:Violent street riots Uh, I'm pretty sure a shutdown isn't going to cause "violent street riots". The last one certainly didn't. Plus the US security forces can easily and efficiently dispatch any civil unrest so yeah.
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Aug 1, 2017 18:22
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the black husserl posted:Uh, I'm pretty sure a shutdown isn't going to cause "violent street riots". The last one certainly didn't. The US defaulting is more than a regular shutdown.
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Aug 1, 2017 18:23
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Vahakyla posted:She is a well educated, charismatic person with a distinguished career, a clean past, and she is a progressive, and she is portrayed well in the literature about her and her career. She's the ideal USMC Officer, and broke barriers herself. Ideological purity is a bitch.
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Aug 1, 2017 18:24
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the black husserl posted:Uh, I'm pretty sure a shutdown isn't going to cause "violent street riots". The last one certainly didn't. probaly, likely negative scenerio, the shutdown lasts a while(couple weeks) maybe. if we default. there will be riots.
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Aug 1, 2017 18:24
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:The government isn't (officially) in debt to bookies or anything that are going to unexpectedly call debts. So the thing is is that they probably could shuffle money around for quite a while to not literally permanently fail to return interest on bonds. Sure, but the interest on T-bills would spike, so our ability to comfortably debt-finance would go away for some significant time. And I'm not convinced that investors wouldn't see a failure to raise the limit as an effective default. Trabisnikof posted:The US defaulting is more than a regular shutdown. But the original question was about the effect of a long-term shutdown, not a default. Given that most of the things that people would really freak out about (Medicare/caid/SS) are non-discretionary, it would be a long time before people hit the riot stage. Flip Yr Wig fucked around with this message at 18:29 on Aug 1, 2017 |
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Aug 1, 2017 18:25
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Has there ever been a government shutdown in the modern era where all branches were controlled by one party?
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Aug 1, 2017 18:25
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DreamShipWrecked posted:Out of curiosity and my own ignorance, what is dishonest about it? I know it's nowhere near what they say it is since we owe money to people who also owe money to us, but borrowing without end is bad, no? The only relevant figure is debt as a proportion of GDP, trying to keep debt to a fixed amount basically equates to driving down debt to zero, which means forgoing a massive amount of investment for no reason whatsoever.
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Aug 1, 2017 18:25
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https://twitter.com/frankthorp/status/892435139397115904 Confirmed McMuffin voter.
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Aug 1, 2017 18:26
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DaveWoo posted:https://mobile.twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/892383242535481344 Or just... give interviews and don't go hilariously off script? Oh right, Alzheimers...
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Aug 1, 2017 18:26
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Shutdown isn't default. They're bigly different. People are used to shutdowns and getting confused. We've never had a default. The world economy would collapse, instantly. Like, bank runs bad.
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Aug 1, 2017 18:26
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Yeah, I'm really not talking about a default. I'm talking about a de facto permanent shutdown. Everything I know about Republicans tells me that a shutdown is the goal, not the obstacle. From my (ignorant) POV, they can threaten a choice between an absolutely despicable budget that "destroys the administrative state" or a shutdown. Either option accomplishes their goal.
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Aug 1, 2017 18:28
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Mint the coin, Trump.
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Aug 1, 2017 18:28
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Shutdown isn't default. They're bigly different. People are used to shutdowns and getting confused. We've never had a default. The world economy would collapse, instantly. Like, bank runs bad. People are also confusing debt ceiling not raising and default. Debt ceiling raise being blocked would be very very stupid and bad, but it's not nearly the US defaulting.
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Aug 1, 2017 18:29
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