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Edgar Allen Ho posted:Euron's fleet got there and pulled off a cunning plan, obviously enough time passed for his fleet to get there lmao can't argue with that
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Aug 1, 2017 16:25
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I guess the problem is why the Lannisters expected an attack on a castle on the other side of the continent. Secondarily, how between Tyrion and Varys, two of the three most knowledgeable characters in the story, neither knew that Casterly Rock was out of gold, even though they know King's Landing is in arrears with the Iron Bank. Ever since the show moved past the books, distances have meant little, what with Euron's fleet being pretty much everywhere, twenty good men, the Amazing Varys, and so on. But now characters jump around so much that it can no longer be hand-waved as accelerated time or simultaneous timelines, since the writers made the mistake of giving hard dates. Jaime is now besieging and conquering castles in two weeks flat, time for travel included. Castles whose entire backstory is that they have lots of food. Hmm. When time and distance mean nothing--not just little, but nothing at all--everything else is consequently less meaningful as well. But I know, I know--the show is about characters. And who can forget really deep, well-loved characters like Biker Euron, who has had like six scenes in two seasons, and the Sand Snakes, who luckily don't have any more? Of course we have larger questions to answer, like if Dany will finally be punished by the story for being totally incompetent and stupid at every turn. The story (through Olenna in episode two) yelled at us that she would be punished, but we'll see. A lot of people have told Dany that she sucks and should go away, only for her to stamp her foot and remind everyone she has dragons, and therefore wins. She is definitely my favorite character! Name Change fucked around with this message at 16:56 on Aug 1, 2017 |
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Aug 1, 2017 16:37
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It's worth noting that when the Unsullied left, the plan was still to bring up Dorne's army to siege King's Landing. In which case it was still a sound strategic maneuver to remove the Lannister army from the equation, keeping them from attempting to break the siege.
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Aug 1, 2017 16:48
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i loving HATED the scene where Jaime explained their strategy and tactics get this loving tactical realism out of my tits
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Aug 1, 2017 16:53
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Who's in charge of the Dornish forces now?
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Aug 1, 2017 16:56
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some guy on the bus posted:Who's in charge of the Dornish forces now? The many tens of thousands of troops between the Tyrells and the Martells do not exist if there is not a named character there.
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Aug 1, 2017 17:02
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dont even fink about it posted:Ever since the show moved past the books, distances have meant little, what with Euron's fleet being pretty much everywhere, twenty good men, the Amazing Varys, and so on. But now characters jump around so much that it can no longer be hand-waved as accelerated time or simultaneous timelines, since the writers made the mistake of giving hard dates. Jaime is now besieging and conquering castles in two weeks flat, time for travel included. Castles whose entire backstory is that they have lots of food. Hmm. The Lannister army can move independently of Jaime. It could have mustered and moved out an arbitrary amount of time before Cersei had her meeting with the Iron Bank guy, and Jaime just hopped on when it was close to Highgarden to conduct the actual fighting. A single person with a small entourage and replacement horses moves way faster than any army, after all. And it specifically wasn't a siege, but a regular assault where they stormed the defences in short order. Why the Tyrell garrison got owned so effortlessly is another question, but most likely they were simply severely outnumbered by Tarly's defection.
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Aug 1, 2017 17:02
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some guy on the bus posted:Who's in charge of the Dornish forces now? Perestroika posted:The Lannister army can move independently of Jaime. It could have mustered and moved out an arbitrary amount of time before Cersei had her meeting with the Iron Bank guy, and Jaime just hopped on when it was close to Highgarden to conduct the actual fighting. A single person with a small entourage and replacement horses moves way faster than any army, after all. And it specifically wasn't a siege, but a regular assault where they stormed the defences in short order. Why the Tyrell garrison got owned so effortlessly is another question, but most likely they were simply severely outnumbered by Tarly's defection.
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Aug 1, 2017 17:11
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Perestroika posted:The Lannister army can move independently of Jaime. Meanwhile other armies cannot move independently of their named characters. Questions of dubious loyalty or feudal logistics do not apply to the Lannisters, who have spent the past seven seasons making enemies, and are headed by Queen Brotherfucker, who was publicly-humiliated and rules only through fear.
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Aug 1, 2017 17:20
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:No, he arrived after the Lannisters had retreated from the castle and the Unsullied were like "wtf", almost as if he was in on the plan. Unless you think the entire siege assault was launched immediately when Grey Worm got there and was over in a day... It was over in a day. Grey Worm had a hidden entrance. Sieging a fortification only takes a couple hours longer than it takes to get inside.
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Aug 1, 2017 17:38
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It's also worth noting that Cersei and Jaime specifically wooed Tarly because the other Tyrell bannermen looked to him for leadership. Once he went to the Lannisters taking Highgarden was more of a formality.
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Aug 1, 2017 17:48
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dont even fink about it posted:Tyrion and Varys, two of the three most knowledgeable characters in the story, neither knew that Casterly Rock was out of gold, even though they know King's Landing is in arrears with the Iron Bank 50% of Tywins fear/respect came from being rich as gently caress you can be sure he was gonna keep that poo poo secret
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Aug 1, 2017 17:51
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But didn't Tyrion mention earlier in the series that the Lannister wealth was most indebted to the Iron Bank?
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Aug 1, 2017 17:54
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Constant posted:50% of Tywins fear/respect came from being rich as gently caress okay, but, Tyrion grew up at casterly rock. a mine that's run for generations running out of gold is not something that happens all at once, or secretly. the answer is that grrm handed the showrunners a checklist that included 'dany takes casterly rock but it's out of gold!' and they checked that off in the last episode. The Walrus fucked around with this message at 17:57 on Aug 1, 2017 |
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Aug 1, 2017 17:54
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Two of my favorite shows are Gotham and Hannibal. In Gotham, every three episodes is some ridiculous bullshit where a super strong, super smart, super well provisioned villain concocts a new plot to bring a huge city to its knees. I don't care about realism because the performances are nice and hammy, the show doesn't take itself all too seriously in the first place, and the production design and direction are very well done. In Hannibal, the entire FBI spends most of their time vainly trying to make the connection that a man named 'Hannibal' is a 'Cannibal', and they travel up and down the eastern half of the U.S. within a matter of minutes. In one instance, they went from Michigan to Virginia to Baltimore and the time of day didn't change. I don't care about this because the show has an engaging plot, great performances, and is shot beautifully. Game of Throne has reached the point where, as mentioned before, it's basically a checklist of plot points described in boring statically shot conversations with a bunch of humiliating fan service thrown in for good measure. I'm only open to suspending disbelief in so far as the show does other things that earn the suspension. Unfortunately I'm now tied to a show I really, really have grown to hate because it's the only way I'll ever get a resolution to a story that I made the mistake of spending over a decade caring about. There's also an element of social commitment, where I feel like I have to be conversant in this awful story. Believe me, I would love to quit. My sole remaining joy in watching the show is pointing out the flaws, and coming up with (not very good) ideas about how the plot will resolve that are still, somehow, leagues better than anything the show's writers seem capable of. Anyway, gently caress you idiots, and gently caress this terrible forum. Peace and love.
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Aug 1, 2017 18:07
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A Buttery Pastry posted:In a feudal society, the idea of "Dornish" forces starts to fall apart with the entire ruling family being dead or captured. Realistically, they might be having their own little civil war to see who gets to be the new boss, neatly leaving them out of the picture for the rest of the show. Didn't Oberyn have some leftover daughters back in Dorne?
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Aug 1, 2017 18:11
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sector_corrector posted:Two of my favorite shows are Gotham and Hannibal. In Gotham, every three episodes is some ridiculous bullshit where a super strong, super smart, super well provisioned villain concocts a new plot to bring a huge city to its knees. I don't care about realism because the performances are nice and hammy, the show doesn't take itself all too seriously in the first place, and the production design and direction are very well done. 
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Aug 1, 2017 18:21
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Roman Reigns posted:Didn't Oberyn have some leftover daughters back in Dorne? in the books he did. in the show, who cares.
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Aug 1, 2017 18:24
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sector_corrector posted:Two of my favorite shows are Gotham and Hannibal. In Gotham, every three episodes is some ridiculous bullshit where a super strong, super smart, super well provisioned villain concocts a new plot to bring a huge city to its knees. I don't care about realism because the performances are nice and hammy, the show doesn't take itself all too seriously in the first place, and the production design and direction are very well done. Says the guy that collects Anime girl pillows.
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Aug 1, 2017 18:25
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https://twitter.com/b_cogman/status/892430246149931008 Whoa, this is huge sector_corrector posted:Two of my favorite shows are Gotham and Hannibal. In Gotham, every three episodes is some ridiculous bullshit where a super strong, super smart, super well provisioned villain concocts a new plot to bring a huge city to its knees. I don't care about realism because the performances are nice and hammy, the show doesn't take itself all too seriously in the first place, and the production design and direction are very well done. Te absolvo of your burden to watch a show you hate and also of writing hundreds of words explaining why to a thread full of people you have no respect for and despise. Be at peace. zoux fucked around with this message at 18:30 on Aug 1, 2017 |
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Aug 1, 2017 18:27
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What does our fave movies and TV shows have to do with Game of Thrones? What's he talking about?
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Aug 1, 2017 18:35
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Folks if it's just a checklist to you, why not give yourself an hour back each week and then you can look at an actual checklist after the show is over to see what you missed.
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Aug 1, 2017 18:38
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i, for one, welcome our giant checklist overlords
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Aug 1, 2017 18:39
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Also people watching just to get the book ending will probably be disappointed. Other than the broadest strokes, I don't think they'll even be the same endings at this point. Assuming GRRM ever finishes so we can find out, of course.
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Aug 1, 2017 18:40
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[the episode 2 recap finishes, episode 3 begins on the screen. a caption at the bottom reads "like 6 loving months later, whatever"] "oh i never thought of that" -tv iv posters
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Aug 1, 2017 18:43
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I thought this checklist was garbage personally
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Aug 1, 2017 18:45
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:No, he arrived after the Lannisters had retreated from the castle and the Unsullied were like "wtf", almost as if he was in on the plan. Unless you think the entire siege assault was launched immediately when Grey Worm got there and was over in a day... I'd like to see Euron interacting with anybody in his own forces because they have been ultimately responsible for every victory in this war so far.
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Aug 1, 2017 18:52
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dont even fink about it posted:I guess the problem is why the Lannisters expected an attack on a castle on the other side of the continent. Secondarily, how between Tyrion and Varys, two of the three most knowledgeable characters in the story, neither knew that Casterly Rock was out of gold, even though they know King's Landing is in arrears with the Iron Bank. It's like Dexter by the end. (though not nearly as bad of course) The total abandonment of attention to detail with realism meant no scene had any tension. Dexter would find some dumb way out that made no sense even though this murder was clearly and obviously impossible to get away with, everybody knew it, it became impossible to effectively depict any real suspense.. The saving grace of game of thrones is there is a massive cast of characters to care about so it's easier to ignore the bad and enjoy the rest that is still good. And a lot is still good.
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Aug 1, 2017 18:56
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This meme, where people who complain about the disastrous writing are are actually only upset about time skips and tactical accuracy, is my new favorite thing. 
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Aug 1, 2017 19:29
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The meme is "the people complaining about the disastrous writing don't know what they are talking about".
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Aug 1, 2017 19:35
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BiohazrD posted:[the episode 2 recap finishes, episode 3 begins on the screen. a caption at the bottom reads "like 6 loving months later, whatever"] Seriously. I don't understand why accurate travel logistics > expedient pacing for people in here. I mean, sure, ideally it'd do both at once. But it was way easier to do that in S1; the "filler" scenes contained relevant characterization and story. Would people honestly prefer a 15-episode season where this week, we cut to Jon and Davos shooting the poo poo on a boat every couple of minutes? And the Unsullied sitting silently on a different boat?
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Aug 1, 2017 19:38
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Xealot posted:Seriously. I don't understand why accurate travel logistics > expedient pacing for people in here. I mean, sure, ideally it'd do both at once. But it was way easier to do that in S1; the "filler" scenes contained relevant characterization and story. like, just look at this guy. loving amazing
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Aug 1, 2017 19:42
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Roman Reigns posted:Didn't Oberyn have some leftover daughters back in Dorne?
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Aug 1, 2017 19:43
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Raspberry Jam It In Me posted:like, just look at this guy. loving amazing the thing is I would literally prefer fifteen minutes of unsullied on a ship. I watched twin peaks on sunday also and it featured five minutes of a woman leaving a room, as well as seven minutes of a woman listening to a phone call, and it was a much better experience than GoT
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Aug 1, 2017 19:45
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I'm disappointed that this episode broke the trend of a gross thing cutting to food. I enjoyed the minute long introduction of Dany's titles followed by "This is Jon Snow. He's king I guess" though, as well as Euron just having a great time.
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Aug 1, 2017 19:51
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Raspberry Jam It In Me posted:like, just look at this guy. loving amazing Yes, yes. You're the smartest and the best and not being smug. What does "disastrous writing" actually mean? There are a ton of people fixating on the times and places things occur as if that evidences why they feel the writing is bad, how it's lazy or unearned, and it really doesn't make that point. Timelines have always been weird on this show, things have always happened at the speed of plot. If that wasn't the issue before, it isn't now. I can only assume that the thing bothering people is that now, fairly incidental-feeling plot points are things that would've been significantly climactic moments in past seasons. And sure, they would've been. But the scope and pace have widened. The "big deal" moments this season that are labored and intense are probably going to be things like sacking King's Landing, the Wall being attacked by white walkers, etc. I'd rather the show move at the speed it's moving now than have it "slow down" to feel more familiar.
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Aug 1, 2017 19:57
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The Walrus posted:the thing is I would literally prefer fifteen minutes of unsullied on a ship. I watched twin peaks on sunday also and it featured five minutes of a woman leaving a room, as well as seven minutes of a woman listening to a phone call, and it was a much better experience than GoT The best scenes in this past season of Better Call Saul were the ones where Mike works on some tracking device fuckery for fifteen minutes at a time, for example.
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Aug 1, 2017 20:04
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Xealot posted:Yes, yes. You're the smartest and the best and not being smug. It means the writing is bad. And ham-fisted, as well. Also, "spend 15 minutes watching unsullied on the ship" is next to the galactic brain picture in the meme.
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Aug 1, 2017 20:09
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Xealot posted:Yes, yes. You're the smartest and the best and not being smug. The locations and timelines are not the cause of the bad writing, they are a symptom. The same issues of things kind of only making sense if you don't examine them too closely also apply to character motivations, dialogue, and planning. Separately, the show used to be beautiful, visually fun to watch. That's no longer the case, the entire season seems to have taken place in three rooms on dragonstone and kings landing as well as the winterfell courtyard. Scenes that should be pivotal are reduced to talking heads with no context (literally anything involving Olenna). The only cool non action scene I can bring up from this season was the walk and chat between dany and jon, and that was a function mostly of the amazing location they used rather than anything else.
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Aug 1, 2017 20:18
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Xealot posted:Yes, yes. You're the smartest and the best and not being smug. The Tyrell plot was slowly build up over 6 long seasons, only to be suddenly wrapped up in 7 min (I'm not exaggerating here, it was literally 7 min). And wrapped up in a completely anti-climatic and unsatisfying manner. The way they did it also made little sense in the established context of show. For example, the Tyrells had the largest land army in Westeros, which wasn't even mentioned or shown in the episode. The Lannister army on the other hand managed to march all the way through Tyrell land without anyone spotting them and alarming Olenna. It's a deus ex machina. Now, you may say that there is a perfectly fine explanation for all of this, but who gives a poo poo? If you hand in a lovely essay in creative writing class and say it's actually much better in your head and that your instructor just gotta use their imagination, they gonna fail your rear end regardless because a lovely essay is a lovely essay, with or without excuses.
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Aug 1, 2017 20:19
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