|
pidan posted:Slowly, slowly I have come to realise that in public discourse, the words "logical" and "rational" mean "agrees with me". All words are only fit to be shouted anymore. I am rational and moral and telling it like it is, you are disingenuous and hysterical and probably a fascist. I don't need to listen to you because I already know that you are bad. quote:It supposes itself to be the bringer of a final revelation. Therefore, resistance to the Message cannot be tolerated because disagreement can never be merely honest, prudent, or just humanly fallible. Dissent from revelation so final (because, the author would say, so reasonable) can only be willfully wicked. There are ways of dealing with such wickedness, and, in fact, right reason itself enjoins them. From almost any page of Atlas Shrugged, a voice can be heard, from painful necessity, commanding: “To a gas chamber — go!” I also just got back from a community production of The Rhinoceros which pokes fun at people who essentially logic their way into believing all sorts of awful things because they never bothered to check whether it coincides with reality
|
#
?
Jul 31, 2017 01:32
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 23, 2024 06:32 |
|
|
Josef bugman posted:Maybe it's because we keep being confronted by the belief that the world seems a cold place devoid of any intrinsic meaning, and as that belief becomes more visible to an increasingly large number of people, (through 24 hour rolling news continual updates on social media etc) feel that there is less meaning in their own lives. We try and find places of safety because everywhere is constantly reminding you of all the things that are wrong, with ourselves and the world. It is that, yes. Between the disasters of the twentieth century basically smashing any belief in the old historical teleologies, globalization weakening the status of the idea of national communities, and all of that, you're absolutely right that the frames through which meaning might be anchored are becoming more and more tenuous. My comment was more or less born of the real sense of despair that comes from the tendency that is not new, which but seems to be accelerating in the age of Trump, that those places of safety always have to be bought at the expense of someone else. Legitimate reasons become ghastly parodies of themselves - with the New Atheists, we go from "scientific perspectives on global warming, and humanity's place in the world should be defended against reactionary anti-intellectual tendencies" to the worst kind of rendering of the Enlightenment narrative - "white dudes are going to save the world with REESON, and we'll drag all the rest of you barbarians kicking and screaming if we have to." Or "Participatory Democracy is weaker when, on account of the increasing complexification of global economics, setting effective policy demands forms of specialist knowledge not available to the average voter," becomes "spineless deep state bureaucrats are screwing us over, gently caress it let's get us a strongman, and also these loving immigrants." "It's more difficult to be a Christian in a world where it can no longer tacitly be assumed that everyone around you shares your beliefs," becomes "War on Christmas!" One could extend the list almost endlessly - the basic commitment that democracy demands - that one be willing to live with people who one fundamentally disagrees with - is less and less apparent. And rather than accept that living in this world might demand that one occupy a more tenuous position, without any clear cut assurances, the tendency is to lash out at any challenger. It's not that disagreement isn't or shouldn't be real, but it's inimical when it only appears as a kill or be killed dynamic. But the generalized embrace of that kind of violence is just dishonorable.
|
|
#
?
Jul 31, 2017 02:38
|
|
|
echopapa posted:I know a lot of people for whom politics fulfills the role of a secular religion, giving them purpose in their lives. But politics, unlike God, doesn’t offer forgiveness. Are you telling me God did not choose Donald to save America from the hell of mediocrity?
|
|
#
?
Jul 31, 2017 03:30
|
|
|
So I got back from a trip to Alaska yesterday. Got to attend Liturgy at St. Innocent Cathedral, where I venerated a relic of St. Herman (not sure what it was, forgot to ask), and was asked by multiple people if I was there for the pilgrimage. Apparently they're getting people together for a pilgrimage to Spruce Island in August. Good for them! The day before my left, my sister, who lives up there, took me to see the spirit houses at Eklutna. It was fascinating to see how some people were commemorated. One was a railroad worker, and his grave had a fence with a hammer and railroad spike. Another had a Coke bottle and bag of candy. One had a tiny bottle of Jack Daniel's inside their house. That cemetery also had a shrine to St. Varnava. It struck me as an interesting juxtaposition: a Serbian saint born in Gary, Indiana, commemorated in a Native Alaskan cemetery. StashAugustine posted:I also just got back from a community production of The Rhinoceros which pokes fun at people who essentially logic their way into believing all sorts of awful things because they never bothered to check whether it coincides with reality
|
|
#
?
Jul 31, 2017 05:47
|
|
|
Keromaru5 posted:It's fitting that the passage you quoted mentioned Atlas Shrugged. Some years back I read Goddess of the Market, a biography of Ayn Rand, and that was definitely my biggest takeaway. Rand made every effort to make sure her philosophy was as "logical" as possible, but actively resisted suggestions (by other libertarians!) of real-world circumstances that might have had some bearing. I love that book, it illustrates what an awful person Rand was (e.g. getting her therapist lover to share details from sessions so she could attack others more effectively).
|
|
#
?
Jul 31, 2017 13:32
|
|
|
Cnidario posted:Episcopalian who has been lurking here for about a year. Just wanted to say I have loved every minute reading this thread. Welcome to the thread!
|
|
#
?
Jul 31, 2017 18:00
|
|
|
I'm getting to be thurifer at my friend's wedding. Have you nerds got any advice for me? I'm planning to just swing it around like crazy.
|
|
#
?
Jul 31, 2017 20:36
|
|
|
Mr Enderby posted:I'm getting to be thurifer at my friend's wedding. Have you nerds got any advice for me? I'm planning to just swing it around like crazy. 
|
|
#
?
Jul 31, 2017 20:47
|
|
|
Mr Enderby posted:I'm getting to be thurifer at my friend's wedding. Have you nerds got any advice for me? I'm planning to just swing it around like crazy. do this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_GfrD08MDyk&t=150s
|
|
#
?
Jul 31, 2017 20:50
|
|
|
Mr Enderby posted:I'm getting to be thurifer at my friend's wedding. Have you nerds got any advice for me? I'm planning to just swing it around like crazy. The first time I went to an Orthodox service the priest swung a bit too hard and a coal hit my forehead Don't do that
|
|
#
?
Jul 31, 2017 21:02
|
|
|
An Orthodox wedding without at least three concussions is considered a dull affair.
|
|
#
?
Jul 31, 2017 21:27
|
|
|
Mr Enderby posted:I'm getting to be thurifer at my friend's wedding. Have you nerds got any advice for me? I'm planning to just swing it around like crazy. Assuming the wedding is within a Mass setting: you'll be needed at the entrance procession, at the reading of the gospel, for the Gabenbereitung (whatever that is in English - sorry, I'm not exactly sober rn; basically it's the preparation of hosts and chalice on the altar), during the Eucharist and for the exit procession. Don't swing it around *too* crazily (or don't overheat the coals) or what happened to me will happen to you and suddenly you'll have to deal with your very own fireball on a chain during a critical part of the service. The most important thing though is imho that people will be able to hear you swinging the incense, so make sure that the chain hits the rest of the thurible for a nice clang. I say that totally unironically; most people won't be able to observe every detail of you doing the incense, and so they'll rely on what they hear and expect to hear. In my experience incense is heavily influenced by whatever the parish's local history and tradition is (ie stuff like “how many clangs“ and “when should the thurifer go/leave for the Eucharist“), so familiarizing yourself with what the priest expects probably isn't a bad idea either.
|
|
#
?
Jul 31, 2017 22:57
|
|
|
If it's a wedding, there may be a rehearsal before hand, which you should probably go to. Also don't take the thurible with you in the car while it's lit, you'll choke the other people in the car
|
|
#
?
Jul 31, 2017 23:07
|
|
|
Catholic News Service posted:The archbishop of Ottawa expressed regret that several Catholics were shocked at the sight of a giant robotic spider perched on Notre Dame Cathedral. Looks like it was all part of this event. So in the Archbishop's defense, I'd seen footage of Long Ma before, and it is pretty badass.
|
|
#
?
Aug 1, 2017 17:16
|
|
|
System Metternich posted:Assuming the wedding is within a Mass setting: you'll be needed at the entrance procession, at the reading of the gospel, for the Gabenbereitung (whatever that is in English - sorry, I'm not exactly sober rn; basically it's the preparation of hosts and chalice on the altar), during the Eucharist and for the exit procession. HEY GAIL posted:Also don't take the thurible with you in the car while it's lit, you'll choke the other people in the car Road trip.
|
|
#
?
Aug 1, 2017 19:52
|
|
|
Pray for me please I'm going to be homeless soon
|
|
#
?
Aug 1, 2017 19:53
|
|
|
Smoking Crow posted:Pray for me please I'm going to be homeless soon How soon is "soon"? Perhaps your church (if you have one) can help. I can't do much via the internet, but I am sure you will get through this!
|
|
#
?
Aug 1, 2017 23:27
|
|
|
Smoking Crow posted:Pray for me please I'm going to be homeless soon Be safe and peace be with you. Depending on your situation, you might find some of this guide to homelessness useful or, at least, encouraging.
|
|
#
?
Aug 2, 2017 00:11
|
|
|
Smoking Crow posted:Pray for me please I'm going to be homeless soon I'll definitely pray to St. Benedict Joseph Labre for you, and St. Francis of Assisi for good measure. God be with you, and I can't speak for everyone here, but if there's anything you think we can do to help you out in a concrete way, I'd be happy to do whatever I can.
|
|
#
?
Aug 2, 2017 00:55
|
|
|
Yeah, it's been a while, but let me know if I can help.
|
|
#
?
Aug 2, 2017 01:16
|
|
|
Likewise.
|
|
#
?
Aug 2, 2017 01:18
|
|
|
Jesus, Crow, I am so sorry. You're in my prayers. 
|
|
#
?
Aug 2, 2017 01:23
|
|
|
Don't worry about me. I have help from friends so I won't be on the street for the time being
|
|
#
?
Aug 2, 2017 06:47
|
|
|
Smoking Crow posted:Don't worry about me. I have help from friends so I won't be on the street for the time being 
|
|
#
?
Aug 2, 2017 06:48
|
|
|
Smoking Crow posted:Don't worry about me. GUESS WHAT
|
|
#
?
Aug 2, 2017 10:33
|
|
|
Smoking Crow posted:Don't worry about me. I have help from friends so I won't be on the street for the time being I wish you all the best. Stay safe Here's an interesting clip about president Trump's religious affiliation. Apparently he's associated with a strange female pastor who preaches that God will make you rich: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KeAbXmhTF-A
|
|
#
?
Aug 2, 2017 17:29
|
|
|
pidan posted:strange female pastor who preaches that God will make you rich: nooooooooooorman vincent peaaaaaaaaaaale
|
|
#
?
Aug 2, 2017 17:32
|
|
|
The Catholics need to get back to their Memento Mori game STAT https://twitter.com/pomofoco/status/892420002040741888
|
|
#
?
Aug 2, 2017 18:22
|
|
|
System Metternich posted:The Catholics need to get back to their Memento Mori game STAT
|
|
#
?
Aug 2, 2017 19:10
|
|
|
pidan posted:I wish you all the best. Stay safe Not just that: she's an on-the-record weird-rear end mix of adoptionist and some other breathtaking heresy that I'm not sure how to classify. Basically she went the Mormon route and said that Christ isn't the only-begotten Son of God, and that we're all ontologically on par with Christ. I guess that's some kind of Unitarianism?
|
|
#
?
Aug 3, 2017 00:54
|
|
|
HEY GAIL posted:Death To The World isn't a memento mori, that's what religious people say, which is why it's an Orthodox punk zine. They also sell t shirts. You need one. Thank you so much for this. How beautiful.
|
|
#
?
Aug 3, 2017 01:03
|
|
|
Pershing posted:Thank you so much for this. How beautiful. Meanwhile, Trump's cabinet gets indoctrinated regularly: https://www.thepoliticalrevolution.net/nearly-cabinet-officials-attend-bible-lessons-right-wing-pastor-compares-trump-biblical-heroes/
|
|
#
?
Aug 3, 2017 01:31
|
|
|
HEY GAIL posted:You're welcome, and I'm glad you like it. So, the old right wing Christians never went away, they just became more openly facist on top of it? Great.
|
|
#
?
Aug 3, 2017 07:10
|
|
|
Josef bugman posted:So, the old right wing Christians never went away, they just became more openly facist on top of it? Great. Rawstory.com and Christian Broadcast News probably aren't the most reliable sources, but even assuming it's true, this article seems to say: - a number of people in Trump's cabinet visit the same right-leaning bible study class - the pastor who holds that class compares Trump and Pence favorably to biblical figures - Trump himself doesn't attend Which seems... inoffensive?
|
|
#
?
Aug 3, 2017 07:45
|
|
|
https://twitter.com/TracyJan/status...genumber%3D2001 he's right--bannon went to a benedictine military academy for college and now he believes in Clash Of Civilizations and a holy war
|
|
#
?
Aug 3, 2017 11:15
|
|
|
Direct link to the article: https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/08/02/world/europe/vatican-us-catholic-conservatives.html It's interesting that the Vatican sees fit to comment on these issues. I don't know what kind of stories that newspaper normally runs, so I can't really contextualize it. When I was a kid it was always understood that the church wouldn't become less patriarchal and more accepting of different lifestyles because "the Africans" wouldn't accept it. I wouldn't have expected that 20 years later it would be the Americans who caused trouble. The big difference is though that the African church is growing while the US church is withering away, so African opinions are literally more important than their US counterpart.
|
|
#
?
Aug 3, 2017 11:50
|
|
|
pidan posted:The big difference is though that the African church is growing while the US church is withering away, so African opinions are literally more important than their US counterpart. I think its fairer to say the locus of the church in the US is changing (smaller diocese in the Northeast, a burgeoning population and building boom in the South). We remain the single largest denomination in the country.
|
|
#
?
Aug 3, 2017 12:12
|
|
|
Bel_Canto posted:Not just that: she's an on-the-record weird-rear end mix of adoptionist and some other breathtaking heresy that I'm not sure how to classify. Basically she went the Mormon route and said that Christ isn't the only-begotten Son of God, and that we're all ontologically on par with Christ. I guess that's some kind of Unitarianism? None of E.W. Kenyon's heresies have names because "actually we are all gods and can speak things into being using our god-powers and God is forced to oblige us" would've got you burnt at the stake rather than open up a theological debate. He's the real driving force behind all the Word of Faith theology; it took me a while to realize why all these televangelists seemed to wander into bizarre Christological heresies (see: Creflo Dollar's infamous line during a sermon about how birds beget birds, dogs beget dogs and therefore God must beget gods.) It's always been funny to me that Pentecostals, the group whose adherents are most likely to believe something as innocuous as doing yoga would open up your soul to demonic infestation, really just gladly hopped aboard something that's basically thinly-veiled occultism. The idea that your thoughts and emotions control reality is everywhere in New Age literature; you go on TBN and start dropping out-of-context Bible verses on top of it and suddenly you become a multimillionaire pastor of a megachurch.
|
|
#
?
Aug 3, 2017 17:26
|
|
|
Not to mention the horrific psychological effect that this has on people who are already miserable. Telling them that they have the power to control their life circumstances tells them that their misery is their own fault for not having enough faith, or even worse, that they wished for this misery. It's an active refusal of the notion that God hears the cries of the oppressed and the laments of widows and that He will bring the mighty to justice. Sorry, I get really worked up about this; I'm not ordinarily a fan of the Inquisition, but this kind of spiritual poison gets me thinking calming thoughts about throwing these pastors in underground cells until they recant.
|
|
#
?
Aug 3, 2017 21:07
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 23, 2024 06:32 |
|
|
I just wish people would go to the dog temple and leave Christianity out of it.
|
|
#
?
Aug 3, 2017 22:10
|
|
