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It was said earlier but drat if it isn't on point: Dany being smart enough to know that nobody is singing songs about the Targs coming back, but dumb enough to act like Veruca Salt demanding Westeros NOW IT'S MINE I WANT IT NOW, is either supremely dumb or a really hamfisted way to accelerate her inevitable descent into madness.
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Aug 1, 2017 23:59
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precision posted:It was said earlier but drat if it isn't on point: Dany being smart enough to know that nobody is singing songs about the Targs coming back, but dumb enough to act like Veruca Salt demanding Westeros NOW IT'S MINE I WANT IT NOW, is either supremely dumb or a really hamfisted way to accelerate her inevitable descent into madness. I really hope she does because the reaction from all the YAAAS QUEEN SLAY types will be amazing turns out a feudal dictator trying to seize power with a criminal family history is a bad person
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Aug 2, 2017 00:05
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The Walrus posted:varys - when you take a character who is known for being of suspect motivation and have him Formally Reveal His One True Motivation that is bad writing. It becomes fanservice because it his his literal exact motivation that fans have inferred from the books. This is completely wrong. What Varys described in that scene is not his 'literal exact motivation' that fans have inferred from the books. His plot in the books and his character arc is very different, and so are his character motivations. This is why the scene is important: because Varys working for Daenerys although he tried to kill her is an actual plot hole, caused by having characters do book stuff and then changing the characters' arcs. Have you even read a wikipedia summary of these books? Show Varys has almost nothing to do with Book Varys at this point. quote:nymeria - jesus christ, you don't see how bringing back fan favourite wolfie for a pointless scene was fan service? why did I even bother writing this up, I'm not bothering with the last point, whatever. Nymeria is not a 'fan favorite'. She did one thing in the second episode of the show and has not been seen since. In what world is that being a fan favorite? It's also the opposite of pointless. Nymeria *only* exists in the show as a symbol. Her entire appearance and involvement in episode 2 is just foreshadowing of what will happen to Arya (she is 'lost to the wilderness'). She is lost when Arya leaves Winterfell. Now, when Arya is finally returning to Winterfell, they cross paths, and they can't go together because they've changed too much and Arya has chosen to not go down that road (for now). Like... this is the opposite of fan service, it's a character whose very limited role in the series has been strictly to symbolize things.
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Aug 2, 2017 00:07
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i would watch the gently caress out of david lynch's version of Game of Thrones.precision posted:It was said earlier but drat if it isn't on point: Dany being smart enough to know that nobody is singing songs about the Targs coming back, but dumb enough to act like Veruca Salt demanding Westeros NOW IT'S MINE I WANT IT NOW, is either supremely dumb or a really hamfisted way to accelerate her inevitable descent into madness. hasn't this been a quality of dany for five seasons? her recognizing her lovely family history is character development, but dany has always been unwilling to concede anything when it comes to "her rightful place on the iron throne." she wants to play it both ways, where she deserves to be crowned immediately based on her father's claim but is simultaneously blameless for her father's crimes. i expect her arc over the next two seasons will be her realizing that the iron throne needs to be earned, not taken and that she needs to work with other people to save westeros. e: that reads a little more ham-fisted when written out QuoProQuid fucked around with this message at 00:14 on Aug 2, 2017 |
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Aug 2, 2017 00:11
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True, in the book plot Varys is a merman. Really bad change for the show.
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Aug 2, 2017 00:15
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QuoProQuid posted:
much like the highly rated HBO drama, "Game of Thrones"
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Aug 2, 2017 00:18
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Pedro De Heredia posted:This is completely wrong. it's not a plot hole, it's something you should be able to infer without having it spelled out for you. shes got dragons and likes freeing slaves, shes a good horse to back. I'm not talking about why he's with dany, I'm talking about his motivation for his entire life - that he's doing it for the people. his allegiances are really complex in the books but people inferred that he was a pragmatist trying to stick up for the commoners. that's the motivation that was spelled out word for word by the character himself in the tv show. someone said that he also said this in season 1 - i don't remember that but if he did that's dumb too, varys' allegiance is a good source of early intrigue. and yes the wolves are a fan favourite. the scene was pointless. heavy handed symbolism that didn't have any insight about anything. literal references to obscure lines in the first season.
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Aug 2, 2017 00:28
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:Euron's fleet got there and pulled off a cunning plan, obviously enough time passed for his fleet to get there But that's kind of what happened. The Unsullied laid a normal siege while the small team went in the backdoor, opened the gate, and then it was pretty much done. The whole thing couldn't have taken more than a day unless you think unsullied were throwing away like 50% of their numbers while sitting on their trap for weeks
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Aug 2, 2017 00:31
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QuoProQuid posted:i would watch the gently caress out of david lynch's version of Game of Thrones. Legitimately give the white walkers a background story episode that's show all from the walker POV and let Lynch direct it next season It'd be the most memorable episode of the show, probably
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Aug 2, 2017 00:33
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dont even fink about it posted:The many tens of thousands of troops between the Tyrells and the Martells do not exist if there is not a named character there. I said it before and I'll say it again, GoT armies now work on the Command & Conquer principle If you kill the HQ, you kill the army. Danny probably got a raven "TYRELLS ARE DEFEATED" and then they exploded.
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Aug 2, 2017 00:35
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Blazing Ownager posted:But that's kind of what happened. They knew about the back door but they still had to find it, they even show Grey Worm looking for it, also consider why they would launch a costly frontal assault rather than just immediately sneak in and THEN attack? Alternatively the Unsullied had slower ships, who gives a gently caress Euron had a plan and got there at that time in order to win, it was possible because that's what happened.
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Aug 2, 2017 00:36
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Blazing Ownager posted:I said it before and I'll say it again, GoT armies now work on the Command & Conquer principle Dragonglass is tiberium?
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Aug 2, 2017 00:37
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A Buttery Pastry posted:For me, it's probably that they just skip over so much interaction that the story at times feels more like a bunch of loosely related vignettes than a coherent whole. Something as simple as having a bit of dialogue between Jaime, Tarly, and a few of the nobles who he convinced to join the Lannisters, would do a lot to ground the assault on Highgarden with the earlier scenes in King's Landing - and it would give us a better glimpse at what's going on inside Jaime's head, how he argues the Lannister case and so on. What would have been added that wasn't in the previous episode besides a reminder to audiences that the conversation happened. Pedro De Heredia posted:It's almost like a lot of 'bad writing' is people not understanding the most basic character motivations of all time. Not just this show, but I find that many people few that any time a character does something stupid, it's bad writing. Maybe I'm just unlucky, but most fictional characters are way more logical and make fewer mistakes than real people I've encountered. I include myself in that too. ghostwritingduck fucked around with this message at 00:40 on Aug 2, 2017 |
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Aug 2, 2017 00:38
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QuoProQuid posted:i would watch the gently caress out of david lynch's version of Game of Thrones. Here you go. I liked Jon and Dany's meeting because it successfully highlighted what's lovely about both of them. Dany is an arrogant, grand-standing child-tyrant and Jon is a frowning dolt who can barely communicate. Dany beats off her 30 titles and demands fealty from nothing, while Jon refuses to explain who he is or what he wants with any conviction or clarity whatsoever. It perfectly encapsulated how they'd see each other at first meeting, and did a good job of demonstrating why their advisors matter. Tyrion, because he's able to speak plainly to backwater Northmen who despise protocol, and Davos because he's fantastic at wing-manning kings who are the absolute worst at marketing. If the two of them are going to bone, this was their meet-hate. Like a meet-cute, but they don't get along until a heated argument punctuated by sex. (I hope they do not bone. This sounds bad.)
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Aug 2, 2017 00:38
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dont even fink about it posted:Maybe if they had expressed that in the show instead of you making that up whole cloth, directly contradicting what she actually says. What did she say that contradicts what was posted? Did you want her to say, "You make some good points, but the things you are describing directly challenge my personal narrative of my divine purpose." She obviously believes him on some level because she was curious about the statement that he had been stabbed in the heart. As she's given time to process, she shows more curiosity.
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Aug 2, 2017 01:09
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Xealot posted:I liked Jon and Dany's meeting because it successfully highlighted what's lovely about both of them. Dany is an arrogant, grand-standing child-tyrant and Jon is a frowning dolt who can barely communicate. Dany beats off her 30 titles and demands fealty from nothing, while Jon refuses to explain who he is or what he wants with any conviction or clarity whatsoever. It perfectly encapsulated how they'd see each other at first meeting, and did a good job of demonstrating why their advisors matter. Tyrion, because he's able to speak plainly to backwater Northmen who despise protocol, and Davos because he's fantastic at wing-manning kings who are the absolute worst at marketing. If they do end up boning I feel especially sorry for Ser Friendzone. Jon took his sword, and then his waifu? Man, that's harsh.
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Aug 2, 2017 01:11
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The Walrus posted:it's not a plot hole, it's something you should be able to infer without having it spelled out for you. shes got dragons and likes freeing slaves, shes a good horse to back. I'm not talking about why he's with dany, I'm talking about his motivation for his entire life - that he's doing it for the people. his allegiances are really complex in the books but people inferred that he was a pragmatist trying to stick up for the commoners. that's the motivation that was spelled out word for word by the character himself in the tv show. someone said that he also said this in season 1 - i don't remember that but if he did that's dumb too, varys' allegiance is a good source of early intrigue. This is largely wrong. The scene is not about why Varys is with Dany, or what his motivation for his entire life is. It's not really about Varys at all. It's about why Daenerys would accept the service of a guy who tried to have her killed. A guy who claims he's doing what's good for the realm, and yet supported her brother, who was a raging rear end in a top hat and would have been a terrible king. It has to be brought up, because it is ridiculous for her to do so, and to trust him. It has not been brought up before because Varys just showed up after she was gone, and then went away before she came back. It is a plot hole because of the reasons she mentioned: how come this good guy supported a raging rear end in a top hat? The explanation is pretty simple in the books: because he does not actually join Daenerys, he has a completely different plan, and is a much more evil character. So it doesn't matter that he tried to have a good person killed. The version of Varys on the show is essentially a 'good guy' who is trying to help 'the people', who is allied to and friends with Tyrion, and whose story is relatively straightforward: he largely helps Tyrion in seasons 2-5, and then largely helps Daenerys in seasons 6-end of show. That's more or less it. The book version of Varys is a conniving murderer who manipulates Tyrion, is plotting wars and trying to destabilize the realm, and who is trying to put a relatively unremarkable Targaryen (who may not actually be a Targaryen) on the throne. His belief that he's only doing what's 'good for the realm' is self-serving and dubious. This stuff is a big enough plot hole that, in season 5, when Varys revealed to Tyrion what he wanted, plenty of people thought it was strange. Both people who knew why it was inconsistent, and people who didn't. Pedro De Heredia fucked around with this message at 01:35 on Aug 2, 2017 |
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Aug 2, 2017 01:32
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A Buttery Pastry posted:The whole point is that of course she reacts emotionally, because it's her emotions being challenged. You don't just build up a story about your self over like half a decade, then abandon it in a day. Dany can't argue her case logically, because its entire foundation is emotional. Explaining how she needs to take care of Cersei because they need to secure their back before they can take the fight to the White Walkers, means acknowledging that her cause is a side-story to someone else's grand epic. I'm sure she can come around to that idea, eventually, but she needs actual character development to get there. Getting her teeth kicked in by the Lannisters is probably part of that. lol if "Dany is hysterical" is your final answer. quote:What did she say that contradicts what was posted? Did you want her to say, "You make some good points, but the things you are describing directly challenge my personal narrative of my divine purpose." No, I wrote what she could have said (with multiple options, actually). The previous person just made up a scene that didn't happen in order to theorycraft about the dumb one that did. Dany already comes from a background where she (should have) learned the hard way that GoT politics is not about making grand pronouncements or edicts and expecting everyone to fall in line--we spent endless seasons on that subject--so starting with "Kneel before me!" makes no loving sense. Everyone around her is telling her that she needs to build allies and confidence in other regional players to win the board, and her first play is to demand loyalty from an entire kingdom? What this season reads like to me (so far) is that the writers have a conclusion they want to reach in seven episodes, details be damned, and are truncating all kinds of stuff with nonsensical developments just so it will arrive there. Y'all are talking about SIX SEASONS OF BUILDUP, but Dragonstone Dany is a new, dumber character.
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Aug 2, 2017 01:35
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The only lesson Daenerys has learned is to use force on people, diplomacy has almost never worked for her. Of course she'd be a raging rear end in a top hat and throw her weight around.
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Aug 2, 2017 01:37
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Cersi's just going to try to kill Euron once she thinks she's won, Isn't she? It's not like those lovely islands are important to anyone.
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Aug 2, 2017 02:03
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Pedro De Heredia posted:The only lesson Daenerys has learned is to use force on people, diplomacy has almost never worked for her. Of course she'd be a raging rear end in a top hat and throw her weight around. Yeah, she tried Tyrion's diplomatic approach and it went horribly.
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Aug 2, 2017 02:05
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Where are my dragons?!! I want them now!!!
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Aug 2, 2017 02:09
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dont even fink about it posted:lol if "Dany is hysterical" is your final answer. Can you give an example of her not grandstanding and demanding things? I'm not a big fan of hers, but she's been doing this forever. In fact, an early prediction I had was that Cersei will become a hero of the people for stopping her.
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Aug 2, 2017 02:17
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business hammocks posted:Cersi's just going to try to kill Euron once she thinks she's won, Isn't she? It's not like those lovely islands are important to anyone. She's definitely leading him on, yeah. As to how it ends... probably death.
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Aug 2, 2017 02:17
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In David Lynch's Dune, the part of Tyrion is played by Sting Tells you all you need to know dunnit
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Aug 2, 2017 02:40
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The Walrus posted:Yeah Jon is way too caught up in his whole deal but Dany is all about that. If you were watching that scene and learning English by context you'd think 'you are in open rebellion' meant 'take off those smelly pelts and gently caress me, nephew man' ftfy
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Aug 2, 2017 02:51
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Pedro De Heredia posted:This is largely wrong. I think book Varys is more well-intentioned than you give credit for considering the whole raise Aegon as a commoner so he will have that experience of having nothing and struggling in poverty when he takes the throne but I agree with the rest.
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Aug 2, 2017 03:01
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If anyone is curious about the Tyrell army that went poof: https://youtu.be/HwaELFe5Wvk?t=14m33s Late Lady Olenna herself explain it. But I bet none of those thousands is ever mentioned again.
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Aug 2, 2017 04:12
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ghostwritingduck posted:Can you give an example of her not grandstanding and demanding things? I'm not a big fan of hers, but she's been doing this forever. In fact, an early prediction I had was that Cersei will become a hero of the people for stopping her. Basically the entire never-ending "I'm ending slavery now!" storyline ends in Dany kinda having to eat poo poo, make various civic compromises, and barely making it out alive thanks to a dragon.
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Aug 2, 2017 04:39
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dont even fink about it posted:lol if "Dany is hysterical" is your final answer.
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Aug 2, 2017 06:57
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I think her spazzing out about not abandoning her quest to take the throne is 100% on point. What bothered me was her not seeming to believe a word Jon was saying. As someone else pointed out, Dany is basically the most magic person in the show. Top that off with the show making up brand new prophecy visions for her, showing the wall and Red Keep destroyed and covered in snow/ash, and I was expecting her to be on board the WW train. Though still refusing to immediately go to the wall, because the throne is so close and Cersei is an enemy that she wants to deal with asap. Plus it would kind of just be a relief and nice moment for someone to finally believe Jon right away, rather than tell him his old wives tales are silly.
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Aug 2, 2017 07:01
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A thing that frustrates me is that no one apparently communicates. Jon apparently still things Bran is dead despite Sansa and him having this huge heart to heart off screen and apparently she's never talked about how Theon admitted to not killing them (look at his reaction when Dany says he has two dead brothers). The woman who calls herself the unburnt who brought back fossilized dragon eggs finds ice zombies hard to believe for some reason like scepticism I get outright denial is odd. When Dany mentions Ned Stark was ok with having her assassinated neither Tyrion or Varys mention later than Ned was super pissed and told everyone to go gently caress themselves. Arya and Bran are not talked about by their siblings or friends unless the show needs to remind you they exist which leads to their storylines feeling disconnected. Remember how close Arya and Jon are supposed to be? It's hard to feel for the Sand Snakes when they never talk about Oberyn, like at all. And you don't need to do it a lot, Elia is mentioned like twice that works. It's not a awful show but things like this are frustrating. And Nymeria and Ghost don't show up because budget all this nonsense about how that's not her life anymore is dumb just like having Bran's direwolf die when it did doesn't make story sense sometimes things happen for TV reasons. SirKibbles fucked around with this message at 07:10 on Aug 2, 2017 |
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Aug 2, 2017 07:07
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It was weird af that Dany said two of Jon's brothers died. As far as she knows, all of them died. Unless Theon told her Bran is alive, for some reason.
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Aug 2, 2017 07:12
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SirKibbles posted:A thing that frustrates me is that no one apparently communicates. Jon apparently still things Bran is dead despite Sansa and him having this huge heart to heart off screen and apparently she's never talked about how Theon admitted to not killing them (look at his reaction when Dany says he has two dead brothers). . esperterra posted:Unless Theon told her Bran is alive, for some reason. That happened on screen. Lycus fucked around with this message at 08:01 on Aug 2, 2017 |
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Aug 2, 2017 07:58
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Xealot posted:Here you go. This is so good. I really liked Dany's "please forget my Dad's crimes that split the kingdom but you live up to your ancestral pledge you bum" speech. Jon is lucky that Tyrion likes him enough to put up with his deer in the headlights method of thinking.
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Aug 2, 2017 08:09
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dont even fink about it posted:Basically the entire never-ending "I'm ending slavery now!" storyline ends in Dany kinda having to eat poo poo, make various civic compromises, and barely making it out alive thanks to a dragon. Yes, she ate poo poo, after years (?) of trying to force the whole continent to adapt to her vision, with a liberal use of force and dragons. Her failure was the result of her punching above her weight and refusing to back down, not of some accommodating compromise building on her part. If anything it's funny that she learned nothing and still thinks the world will eventually give her the apology she deserves if she keeps banging the same drum as before. steinrokkan fucked around with this message at 08:48 on Aug 2, 2017 |
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Aug 2, 2017 08:43
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Jaime point blank says the Tyrells have the second largest army in Westeros in the episode they're discussing breaking the Tyrells out of the Sparrow's control. Pretty sad for that to be dealt with in 10 seconds.
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Aug 2, 2017 09:36
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esperterra posted:I think her spazzing out about not abandoning her quest to take the throne is 100% on point. Blazing Ownager posted:Jaime point blank says the Tyrells have the second largest army in Westeros in the episode they're discussing breaking the Tyrells out of the Sparrow's control. Pretty sad for that to be dealt with in 10 seconds. SirKibbles posted:A thing that frustrates me is that no one apparently communicates... When Dany mentions Ned Stark was ok with having her assassinated neither Tyrion or Varys mention later than Ned was super pissed and told everyone to go gently caress themselves. Arya and Bran are not talked about by their siblings or friends unless the show needs to remind you they exist which leads to their storylines feeling disconnected. Remember how close Arya and Jon are supposed to be?
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Aug 2, 2017 10:26
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Blazing Ownager posted:Jaime point blank says the Tyrells have the second largest army in Westeros in the episode they're discussing breaking the Tyrells out of the Sparrow's control. Pretty sad for that to be dealt with in 10 seconds. Many of the the Tyrells were working with the Lannisters after Jaime convinced Sam's dad to switch sides.
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Aug 2, 2017 10:41
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steinrokkan posted:Yes, she ate poo poo, after years (?) of trying to force the whole continent to adapt to her vision, with a liberal use of force and dragons. Her failure was the result of her punching above her weight and refusing to back down, not of some accommodating compromise building on her part. The fact that it took her a day or two to switch tactics compared to years does show that she's learned something. Yes, it's annoying that she does this, but it's consistent with her character as portrayed on the show. The tactic has brought her some success in the past, so you can't blame her too much for trying it again.
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Aug 2, 2017 10:48
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