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vyelkin posted:I wrote a long post during the 2014 World Cup about football positions and formations to try to explain to new posters some of the terminology we were using to discuss the World Cup, it might not be what you're looking for but here you go anyway: That was written for me. God bless you lol. IF you wanna go full retard read Inverting the Pyramid Guidetofootballmanager.com is also cool and good
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Jul 24, 2017 12:14
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Inverting the Pyramid is great but has a high chance of causing you to implement outdated tactics with minimal success and get fired. The Verrou will not work in 2017 (probably)
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Jul 24, 2017 13:25
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sebzilla posted:Inverting the Pyramid is great but has a high chance of causing you to implement outdated tactics with minimal success and get fired. 2-3-6 - go route one
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Jul 24, 2017 13:29
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Eventually I'm going to make a working WM.
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Jul 24, 2017 14:01
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I tried a 2-3-5 as Real Madrid once just for fun in like FM10 or something. It worked for the few games I bothered playing but only because the players were so good. It was hilariously weak to wingers and crosses into the box.
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Jul 24, 2017 14:04
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ShootaBoy posted:Ok, so I'm dumb as hell and let my desire to be good at manager games team up with my cheapness and convince me to buy FM17 back in the summer sale. My problem is that I don't know a goddamn thing about soccer/football. Like at all. My knowledge ends at ' the ball goes into the net'. Is there somewhere that can explain how the actual sport works in a way that isn't going to be full of incomprehensible jargon ala wikipedia? Bonus points if you also link something that explains the game as well. That big link on positions and tactics earlier is really good. That's about half the game in FM, the other half is managing money and players. Here's a really quick overview of transfers and whatnot. I'm assuming you're American and are familiar with the basic tenets of North American sports labor management: drafts, free agency and the like. Soccer is very different from this in a lot of ways, and it won't make a whole lot of sense at first. The first thing to understand is that soccer leagues, especially in Europe, are not cartels like they are in North America. Leagues essentially compete financially with one another, and players are free, within the limits of things like labor laws, to move between leagues as they wish. In addition, European courts have routinely struck down attempts by soccer leagues to get around anti-trust laws, so the labor market for professional footballers is a lot more "free" than it is for athletes in NA. That said, there are still some similarities in general concepts. Note that large chunks of this will not apply to the MLS, which is kind of a weird hybrid of NA sports leagues and rest-of-the-world soccer leagues. Contracts are in large part the same as what you see in NA sports. The biggest difference is wages are paid weekly rather than by the game. Contracts are fully guaranteed, and generally expire close to the end of each season, usually at the end of June or beginning of July depending on the country. Contracts can have a ton of different bonuses and clauses just like their NA equivalents, to include a "release clause" that I'll talk about in a minute. When a player's contract expires, they become a free agent, able to play for any team anywhere that will give them a new contract. Collectively, the cost of all the player and manager contracts make up a club's wage bill, which is one of the two big components of a club's budget (the other being the transfer budget). Aside from the MLS, there are no salary caps in soccer; there are other things that limit a club's spending that I'll discuss below. Extensions are just new contracts that a player signs with his current club. Sometimes this is due to the current contract expiring in the next year, sometimes the player requests or demands a new contract because they think they are underpaid. In-game you negotiate with their "agent", and just like in real life this process can get very testy. Transfers are the main way that clubs exchange players that are under contract. Unlike NA, a transfer is almost always a cash-for-player kind of deal; you rarely see players exchanged because both players have to agree to the exchange (the last prominent one I can think of was Ibrahimovic and Eto'o back in 200-something). A transfer fee is just a cash payment to the selling club in exchange for them releasing their contractual rights to the player; once these rights are released, the player can negotiate a new contract with the buying club. Thus, a transfer consists of two basic steps: negotiating a transfer fee with the selling club, and then negotiating a new contract with the player. This is the other main way in which transfers differ from trades in NA - the contract is not traded along with the player. Transfer fees are sort of the bellwether of the global football economy. Player value is based on a ton of different factors: how good the player is, how old they are (or how many good years they have left at least), whether or not their current club wants to sell them, how many years they have left on their contracts, and so on. For example, a young player with 5 years remaining on a contract, on a club who doesn't want to sell, is going to cost a whole lot more than an equivalently good player who is older, whose contract expires next summer, or whose club is looking to sell. If a player comes into the last year of a contract and will not sign an extension, clubs will sometimes sell them instead of losing them for nothing the following summer (see: Alexis Sanchez). Transfer fees are often a significant source of income for smaller and middle-sized clubs (see: Southampton), as large and or rich clubs spend obscene amounts of money to bring in top (they hope) players. Sometimes contracts have release clauses in them. This means that the player is released from his contract if the parameters of the clause are met. Most commonly this is a set amount of money: if a buying club makes a bid in the amount in the release clause, the selling club has to accept it (this is driving the $200mm+ transfer rumors for Neymar right now...apparently Neymar has a $200mm+ release clause in his contract). Clubs have to accept offers that meet release clauses, but players do not have to accept contract offers with a buying club. In FM, a club has a transfer budget, which is what your club's ownership will allow you collectively to spend on transfers. This amount is set in the preseason and is based largely on your club's financial means. In addition to the provided budget, you're usually allowed to keep some portion of the proceeds from the sale of a player, again depending on your club's financial health. The transfer budget combines with the wage bill to set a club's yearly budget. Sometimes you can increase wage spending at the expense of transfer money, and vice versa, via this slider thing. Big clubs will have yearly budgets in excess of $500mm and thus you hardly have to care about money unless you want to make a huge purchase. Smaller clubs are dominated by their budgets and everything you do is a pain in the rear end. Budgets are set by a club's owner(s), who vary in generosity, means, and patience, but a club also has to comply with Financial Fair Play rules. This is a thing brought on fairly recently by a bunch of oligarchs buying football clubs and then pumping ludicrous amounts of money into making them good. It is incredibly complex but the basic idea is a club has to be fiscally solvent with its football-related revenue alone. Bosman transfers are what NA calls "unrestricted free agency". In other words, when a player's contract expires, they're free to sign wherever they want within the limits of local labor laws. Top players in their prime rarely come up on Bosmans for obvious reasons, but less-talented/accomplished young players and older players come up on them regularly. Bosmans are a super important part of running a smaller club since you likely won't have much of a transfer budget to work with. My personal favorite Bosman of all time was signing Ronaldinho to Sporting KC, where he proceeded to be absolutely awful. Loans are a different way of exchanging players. The loaning club sends a player to play on another club while retaining his economic rights. Most commonly this is done to get younger players developmental playing time in lower leagues: Chelsea has like a thousand young players out on loan, for instance. Sometimes a club will loan a player when they don't have space for him, but don't want to sell him for some reason (see: James Rodriguez). Sometimes the receiving club pays a fee for the loan, sometimes they pay some or all of the player's wages. Some loan contracts allow for recall, or restrict games the player can play in, some do not. In FM, when you're loaning a player for developmental purposes you can request to the receiving team's manager what position he should play, and how much playing time he'll get. Loan players are also a big deal for lower level teams, they'll give you access to players you could never afford on your own, but usually only for one season at a time. Work permits are the labor laws that control player movement somewhat. In order to play in a given country, a player needs a work visa just like any other worker. In soccer this is complicated and stupid: essentially, a player has to be "pretty good" in order to be granted a work permit (as he's not taking a job from a domestic player in that case). If a player is not granted a work permit, you can still sign him, but you can't play him in competitive matches. Bigger clubs can sometimes loan the player out to a club in a country with fewer visa restrictions, where the player can play until he gains legal status. Roster restrictions are just restrictions various competitions place on who you can play. The UCL is the most common one you'll encounter with a big club: a certain number of your players have to come from your club's youth system, and from your home country. Some domestic leagues have similar restrictions, which are also kind of silly and just drive up prices for domestic players while making the league less competitive internationally. MLS roster restrictions are crazy and way too complex for any person to understand.
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Jul 24, 2017 15:01
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bewbies posted:That big link on positions and tactics earlier is really good. That's about half the game in FM, the other half is managing money and players. Here's a really quick overview of transfers and whatnot. I'm assuming you're American and are familiar with the basic tenets of North American sports labor management: drafts, free agency and the like. Soccer is very different from this in a lot of ways, and it won't make a whole lot of sense at first. This post is cool and good. Pls make this and the other one linked above part of the OP for the yearly roster update pls
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Jul 24, 2017 15:48
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An addendum to this is that the notion of a "cycle" for teams is pretty much absent outside of the MLS. Although things will change gradually over several years in the game, there is a very rigid hierarchy of clubs that you need to keep in mind mainly regarding financial strength and players' motivations. At the top of this pyramid are the few mega-clubs with huge stadia, solid track records in the largest leagues and/or owners ready to inject funds liberally. There are probably less than ten or so of these clubs in the world, and unless you're managing one of them you should expect to lose almost each time against them, have player's heads turned extremely easily by their interest and only acquire players they are willing to part with. Real Madrid, Chelsea, Barcelona, Bayern Munich, Juventus and so forth are at this level. Finishes below 3-4 is seen as very bad and will likely result in a sacking and significant changes in players between seasons. Below this are the high reputation clubs of top European leagues. England, Spain, Italy, Germany and to a lesser extent France, Portugal, Russia and the Netherlands amongst others have clubs with lots of financial clout and a high enough profile to consistently field good squad, usually structured around a couple players that will end up attracting the interest of the higher tier. These clubs are more opportunistic sellers to the higher tier, and are well positioned to take bets on young talent, hoping to sell them off for a large profit and yet a few years of high performance in the hopes of reaching the apex long enough to kick one of the mega-clubs out. This is a larger group, but Tottenham, Porto, Borussia Dortmund and Zenit St Petersburg are likely in this group. The last group I'll talk about are the clubs that only truly have one of either deep pockets, high reputation or league-winning potential. These clubs know that they can't get great players in their prime, so usually stick to doing their best to buy and sell young and old players in order to strengthen their main advantage, and perhaps become slowly part of the second tier. This is currently the top level for non-european clubs, and even then not many reach it. These clubs often need to manage their players's careers in a more opportunistic manner, being more prepared to sell youngsters before they ask for too much money and build a team from a roster that changes much faster as they pillage rivals's top players and throw in a few well known players running down their careers. Most clubs in this group are mid-table teams from European leagues (or repeat champions in poorer/lower reputation leagues), but top South American clubs are at this level too, as well as some cash-rich Chinese or Gulf state clubs. As always, nobody agrees on this definition, and as you might be able to sense, the pyramid continues much deeper as one looks into lower division clubs or outside traditional football powerhouses. But this hierarchy is really important because it is fuelled by the 'open' league structure of most countries. Unlike American leagues, the threat of relegation for the lowest performers and the almost exponential rewards on offer to higher placed teams at the top of the table often means a team performing poorly is at risk of dropping down a tier, and losing their ability to muscle "lower" teams out of the way to sign the best players. Since there are no salary caps and revenues are not shared in such an even manner as cartel leagues, one bad year can lead to needing to sell top players to balance the books, which in turn weakens the team, and so forth in a death spiral (Leeds United is a recent example). All this to say that no matter how good your older players are, prepare for when they'll leave, and don't be shy about pushing them out while you can still get something from the buyer and not end up holding the bag on an expensive but bad player. Similarly, even if you can see the great talent of youth in your squad, don't expect to be able to hold on to them and just wait out the 3-4 years they need to grow into a championship-winning side, since they'll likely be snapped up by someone who can pay far more then you at the worst possible time. For all these reasons, I'd recommend starting in a club in the first/second tier in a league where they are expected to win easily as a good place to find out how the game works : Bayern Munich, Paris St Germain, Porto, Zenit... They don't have too much challenge at first, and give you the comfort of being able to make a few mistakes without being sacked or trapped in a losing/selling cycle that's not always the most fun.
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Jul 24, 2017 16:38
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bewbies posted:That big link on positions and tactics earlier is really good. That's about half the game in FM, the other half is managing money and players. Here's a really quick overview of transfers and whatnot. I'm assuming you're American and are familiar with the basic tenets of North American sports labor management: drafts, free agency and the like. I don't actually! I am American but I don't know a drat thing about sports, but this is still a super great and mega useful post, so thanks for all the effort.
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Jul 25, 2017 01:06
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Go for Celtic, you'll breeze the league and have fun buying and selling in the transfer market.
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Jul 25, 2017 05:51
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Play Millwall and be an absolute oval office to everyone and everything. I had goos fun creating myself as a random player to plug onto my team got me interested my first go-round. You can use random values or leave everything at zero so they auto generates stats for you cuz Lord knows I don't know what everything does
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Jul 25, 2017 12:32
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vyelkin posted:I tried a 2-3-5 as Real Madrid once just for fun in like FM10 or something. It worked for the few games I bothered playing but only because the players were so good. It was hilariously weak to wingers and crosses into the box.
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Jul 25, 2017 12:45
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vyelkin posted:I tried a 2-3-5 as Real Madrid once just for fun in like FM10 or something. It worked for the few games I bothered playing but only because the players were so good. It was hilariously weak to wingers and crosses into the box. I managed to win Euro 2012 on (I think) FM10 with my dumb Pro Evo tactic which is kind of similar. One CB, two defensive FBs, two anchor men, a B2B CM, a Trequartista in the AM position with a poacher and two inside forwards. It was great fun and Nathan Delfouneso scored me the winning goal IIRC. FM11 was a bit smarter and any AI team would score a hatful from crosses against me.
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Jul 25, 2017 12:53
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Walton Simons posted:I managed to win Euro 2012 on (I think) FM10 with my dumb Pro Evo tactic which is kind of similar. One CB, two defensive FBs, two anchor men, a B2B CM, a Trequartista in the AM position with a poacher and two inside forwards. It was great fun and Nathan Delfouneso scored me the winning goal IIRC. FM11 was a bit smarter and any AI team would score a hatful from crosses against me. Your tactic was hot garbage and got me fired from Newcastle before Christmas Actually maybe Newcastle are just terrible, who can say?
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Jul 25, 2017 13:29
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Seconding playing as Celtic if you are learning the game, it is like a tutorial where you will win almost regardless of what you do.
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Jul 25, 2017 14:09
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sebzilla posted:Your tactic was hot garbage and got me fired from Newcastle before Christmas Well yeah, you didn't have the might of Gabby Agbonlahor and Nigel Reo-Coker to call upon like I did.
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Jul 25, 2017 17:30
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Walton Simons posted:Well yeah, you didn't have the might of Gabby Agbonlahor and Nigel Reo-Coker to call upon like I did. To this day, the only thing I know about Agbonlahor is that he tackled this one kid from a boy band and made him cry. I don't want to anything else because that would only dilute his greatness to me.
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Jul 27, 2017 18:55
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He's real fast and bad at working out which side of him a person who tapped his shoulder is standing.
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Jul 28, 2017 10:33
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Not sure what to do right now in FM 2017. I've won the Champions League in terms of European club competition. Won the World Cup in terms of national competition. It's the year 2024 and I went down the list of leagues by reputation. Apparently the lowest reputation league that's playable in FM 2017 is the Welsh Premier Division or whatever it's called. It's 1 whole freaking star so I'm gonna add that to my game, join a club, and see how far up I can improve this poo poo pile. I kinda wish televsion money/prize money would automatically adjust. :/
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Jul 29, 2017 02:26
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Who you going to manage?
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Jul 29, 2017 15:16
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There was only one club without a manager that I could apply to when it was added to my game and now you're looking at the new manager of Conwy Borough. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conwy_Borough_F.C. They apparently got promoted last season from the Cyrmu Alliance.
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Jul 29, 2017 19:12
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sebzilla posted:Inverting the Pyramid is great but has a high chance of causing you to implement outdated tactics with minimal success and get fired. I was going to try the verrou after, like Ewar, I made a ridiculous tactic that gives me about 60-66% possession and 10 SOT in almost every game (or at least the ones I notice), now I need something new to try Tokyo Sexwale fucked around with this message at 00:49 on Aug 2, 2017 |
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Aug 2, 2017 00:06
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Question about team and league reputation. Is there a hard cap for some leagues? And how does this affect player value? I've won he MLS for a decade, and the concacaf champions league, and even the dumb international champions cup or whatever it's called, and still my players top out at $6.5m in value.
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Aug 3, 2017 15:21
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joshtothemaxx posted:Question about team and league reputation. Is there a hard cap for some leagues? And how does this affect player value? I've won he MLS for a decade, and the concacaf champions league, and even the dumb international champions cup or whatever it's called, and still my players top out at $6.5m in value. In my experience reputation does impact the sale price, but not to the extent of the displayed value. I just sold a 20 year old Brazilian international from a Croatian team for 40 million when he was listed at 6 million and when I was in Holland guys that would top out at 20 million could go for up to 100. Unless you're in a really high end league, I wouldn't pay too much attention to the listed value
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Aug 3, 2017 15:44
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joshtothemaxx posted:Question about team and league reputation. Is there a hard cap for some leagues? And how does this affect player value? I've won he MLS for a decade, and the concacaf champions league, and even the dumb international champions cup or whatever it's called, and still my players top out at $6.5m in value. There isn't, far as I can tell, a hard cap on team/league rep. But because of the way competitions work there is a soft cap: even the best MLS team possible can only face high rep opposition (I.e. a Euro or SA team) or play in a high rep competition once a year (in the CWC, which is not even given a particularly high rep I think) so you will eventually have only that one chance a year to gain rep. This soft cap on team and league rep will then probably (I am less sure how this part works and am mostly guessing here) hold down player rep and thus the reported player value. The custom DB I play with replaces the continental competitions with a single worldwide Champions League, mostly for this reason. Dallan Invictus fucked around with this message at 22:30 on Aug 3, 2017 |
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Aug 3, 2017 16:05
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Also, the transfer value in game is strongly linked to the current contract the player has, in particular length and salary. Since the MLS has all weird kinds of rules and a salary cap, the AI considers that the contacts are "weak", so is prepared to pay less regardless of the team's, the league's and the player's reputation. Also, even if you are crushing the MLS, the overall reputation on all three levels might not get very high for a whole number of reasons (as much as I have understood, which might be completely wrong):
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Aug 3, 2017 16:25
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joshtothemaxx posted:Question about team and league reputation. Is there a hard cap for some leagues? And how does this affect player value? I've won he MLS for a decade, and the concacaf champions league, and even the dumb international champions cup or whatever it's called, and still my players top out at $6.5m in value. In FM16 it took me about 15-20 years of winning the CL with Aberdeen to get my players even shortlisted for the big awards, and the league was STILL sitting about 8th in the rankings. I don't know what it's like in 17 (haven't gotten that far yet) but barring editing the actual league stats with the ingame editor the only other option I can think is savescumming other teams in your league to success.
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Aug 3, 2017 23:49
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Coohoolin posted:In FM16 it took me about 15-20 years of winning the CL with Aberdeen to get my players even shortlisted for the big awards, and the league was STILL sitting about 8th in the rankings. I don't know what it's like in 17 (haven't gotten that far yet) but barring editing the actual league stats with the ingame editor the only other option I can think is savescumming other teams in your league to success. This has put a massive damper in my Welsh league attempt.
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Aug 3, 2017 23:52
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It's hard to break the top leagues but not so hard to jump up through the mediocre and bad league rankings.
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Aug 4, 2017 18:47
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Siiiggghhh *buys in-game editor and sets all player attributes to 20s*
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Aug 4, 2017 19:00
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I make myself every save as a Striker or LB with -9 potential and the average skill of the squad and let the cpu randomly assign me stats
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Aug 4, 2017 19:07
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Oh yeah, what's the uh create-your-own-club feature like? I haven't actually looked into it. Is it as robust as EA's old Create A Club thingy?
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Aug 4, 2017 19:09
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Waroduce posted:I make myself every save as a Striker or LB with -9 potential and the average skill of the squad and let the cpu randomly assign me stats min/max that poo poo
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Aug 4, 2017 20:19
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I'm savescumming anyway so I figure I might as well have fun and gently caress around with it. I take random players from small leagues and pump up their key attributes and see what happens.
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Aug 4, 2017 20:31
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sassassin posted:It's hard to break the top leagues but not so hard to jump up through the mediocre and bad league rankings. I won the Champions League 15 years in a row with OM as part of a league coefficient experiment in FM15 and could not, at any point, dislodge the Premier League from the top spot. Even when I went through a period where Lyon won the Europa League and OM played PSG two years in a row in the CL final.
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Aug 4, 2017 22:28
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Does anyone else absolutely hate the interview system when you're applying to places? I absolutely loved the simplicity of "hey here's our contract offer" or if I'm doing really well Barcelona or whatever just pops up with a 2 year contract worth so and so. I hate the interview poo poo.
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Aug 5, 2017 00:35
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my least favourite part is all the press poo poo - press conferences, and tunnel interviews that are three times the length of press conferences
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Aug 5, 2017 02:33
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My rear end man takes care of every single media related poo poo. However I will always do the you just got hired at so and so press conferences
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Aug 5, 2017 02:46
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Ok, so reading the bullshit you guys have gone through with League reputations I just went with the Create-A-Club. I added England's lowest available league which is Vanarama North & South. Found the cheapest valued club (which was in Vanaram South) which turned out to be Truro and was valued at 85k, lol. I'm a huge loving nerd so I had to create a storyline so let's just say that Williams F1 decided to diversify from just an F1 team and purchased some shithole club and rebranded it Williams Martini Racing F.C.  Please appreciate my 'F.C.' tacked on via MS Paint. Zero club history, all from scratch and ready to go to the top of the Premier League.
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Aug 5, 2017 04:57
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sassassin posted:min/max that poo poo Than its too much like cheating....I just enjoy having myself in the game and capable of playing at high levels....I usually tie myself to the club though on a 10 year minimum wage contract lol
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Aug 5, 2017 05:15
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