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Harrow posted:Is there any indication of what else they're planning to add to FFXV in future patches? I'll probably play it at some point, but I'm wondering if it's worth waiting until more patches come out to "complete" it or whether I should just jump in whenever I don't have another game I'm playing. 70% of the FFXV team is still working on post launch support/DLC for the game. We might see more announcements at Gamescom later in August.
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Aug 3, 2017 18:42
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Sakurazuka posted:No one uses buffs in RPGs This is true and it's hosed up because theyre the bread and butter of the Ur-JRPG, Dragon Quest
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Aug 3, 2017 18:58
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ZenMasterBullshit posted:I dunno what to tell you, buddy. Most people that play RPG's seem to be locked into the mind set of just doing whatever does the most numbers at the time and healing as necessary and then grinding when that stops working. It's why, hilariously, DQ games, like Dragon Quest 8, give you buff skills super early on and still more casual players call Dragon Quest 'grindy' because if you'd not using buffs your only real option is to slowly grind levels. But... buffs make your numbers bigger!
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Aug 3, 2017 19:01
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is the regalia type f the most disappointing airship in final fantasy history
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Aug 3, 2017 19:23
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Vargatron posted:But... buffs make your numbers bigger! Not that turn they dont! DQ8 is kind of a bad example because while the early game is "can you buff" eventually every boss gets a full party undodgeable remove all party buffs ability as part of the multiple turns they get and the endgame/postgame is literally just spamming two-three timbrels of tension to beat bosses. And Im sure it can be done some other way so feel free to point it out to me, but if you dont have Angelo to the level where he has multiheal good loving luck beating Dhoulmagus without either grinding for crap loads of items or just good luck. Edit: DQ8 is a bad game
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Aug 3, 2017 19:42
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Part of the reason I like FFXII so much is that I can just set a gambit to do buffs so I don't have to constantly worry about reapplying stuff. Especially when I think of older RPGs that don't like telling you that much when it comes down to what an enemy's status actually is.
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Aug 3, 2017 19:45
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Disruptive Wave sucks but don't pretend that it's only a problem with DQ8. I think they've been doing that since 4, and it's never not been annoying, even when you can use the ability yourself. And it's somehow still worth it to buff up, because any of the turns they're dispelling are turns you're not getting hit on, even if it's just part of a multi-turn set.
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Aug 3, 2017 19:45
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I didn't have multiheal.angelo actually got it from beating dhoulmagus 2 lol. it made the fight really fun. Using the abilities of the equipment sitting in your inventory is pretty important. Probably maddening if you don't do that since they don't consume mp and it's a long fight. And buffing is still good as long as you don't spend ten turns doing it cause the turn they spend un buffing you is one turn where they're not hitting you
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Aug 3, 2017 19:48
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Alxprit posted:Disruptive Wave sucks but don't pretend that it's only a problem with DQ8. I think they've been doing that since 4, and it's never not been annoying, even when you can use the ability yourself. And it's somehow still worth it to buff up, because any of the turns they're dispelling are turns you're not getting hit on, even if it's just part of a multi-turn set. I get the concept, but its extremely unrewarding to spend time sidelining one chaarcter to effectively "do nothing" so you can make the enemy do 1/2-1/3rd the damage. Its objectively the correct strategy, but its a really lovely feeling one. If they cant balance the boss for a 4 person party dont let me have 4 person parties.
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Aug 3, 2017 19:53
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Sunning what are the odds that Matsuno gets his hands on another Ivalice game
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Aug 3, 2017 19:53
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Kulkasha posted:Sunning what are the odds that Matsuno gets his hands on another Ivalice game even if they inexplicably decided to make a new ivalice game it wouldnt have matsuno
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Aug 3, 2017 19:55
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They did apparently hire him to work on FFXIV's upcoming "Return to Ivalice" raid but I wouldn't exactly say that suggests there'll be another Ivalice game basically ever.
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Aug 3, 2017 19:56
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http://www.siliconera.com/2017/08/02/little-orbit-now-developing-unsung-story/
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Aug 3, 2017 19:57
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Alxprit posted:Disruptive Wave sucks but don't pretend that it's only a problem with DQ8. I think they've been doing that since 4, and it's never not been annoying, even when you can use the ability yourself. And it's somehow still worth it to buff up, because any of the turns they're dispelling are turns you're not getting hit on, even if it's just part of a multi-turn set. Disruptive Wave has been around since 3 (maybe 2?), but usually it was reserved for like, the final bosses or otherwise very important story bosses. But in 8 it's like, every boss for half the game.
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Aug 3, 2017 20:03
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I loved the update on this that was the new company going "we have to start from scratch. Our plan is to deliver on the promuse of Matsuno single player strategy game" which gives me a thirst to know exactly what was done previously.
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Aug 3, 2017 20:09
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TurnipFritter posted:Disruptive Wave has been around since 3 (maybe 2?), but usually it was reserved for like, the final bosses or otherwise very important story bosses. But in 8 it's like, every boss for half the game. 8 also introduced a Tension system so I can understand why they gave it to so many bosses. Without it you'd just tension up to 100 vs every boss, but Wave of Ice makes it a lot more of a risk vs reward system.
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Aug 3, 2017 20:10
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Also, this line:quote:As a reminder, some of Little Orbit’s most recent games include Kung Fu Panda: Showdown of Legendary Legends, Monster High: New Ghoul in School, Barbie and Her Sisters: Puppy Rescue, and Adventure Time: Finn and Jake Investigations.
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Aug 3, 2017 20:10
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Reading all this commentary on how "hard" 13 is reminds me of all the people who shat on cleric stance for 14. So bad it got turned into a quick dps thing. It's just players refusing to git gud.
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Aug 3, 2017 20:22
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cleric stance was a bad mechanic that worked poorly
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Aug 3, 2017 20:23
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Barudak posted:Edit: DQ8 is 
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Aug 3, 2017 20:26
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Arist posted:cleric stance was a bad mechanic that worked poorly Counterpoint: cleric stance was fine, and if you had trouble with it, you were just a lovely player / shouldn't be a healer.
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Aug 3, 2017 20:26
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seiferguy posted:Counterpoint: cleric stance was fine, and if you had trouble with it, you were just a lovely player / shouldn't be a healer. No, it was just a genuinely bad mechanic. It didn't actually add anything to the game nor was it an interesting skill check. It just amounted to "did you remember to toggle this when hitting DPS buttons?" Its removal hasn't meaningfully changed anything in the game at all. I didn't have trouble with it and if they brought it back I'd go back to used it because it literally amounts to 'tap button before hitting attack buttons, untap button before healing, maybe don't hit it before a heavy healing period." However it being gone has changed basically nothing.
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Aug 3, 2017 20:28
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Counterpoint: every time I clicked off Cleric Stance and it didn't take, gimping my healing until I realized what happened
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Aug 3, 2017 20:29
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Kulkasha posted:Sunning what are the odds that Matsuno gets his hands on another Ivalice game Like work hands-on as a director? Zero. After FFXII, he seems more interested in dealing with the conceptual side of game development and letting someone else handle the day to day work. As a consultant/scenario writer? We already saw him collaborate with the FFXIV team with the Return to Ivalice event. After the staff reshuffling, A Realm Reborn team had much of the same staff that worked on the Ivalice Games and Tactics Ogre. They seem interested in making more games like FFXII but it isn't clear who will make them. The company's hurting for manpower.
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Aug 3, 2017 20:32
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RPGs have big issues with teaching and guiding players to play properly, but it's still bizarre to me that anybody's first instinct when they get wrecked in an RPG is to run in a circle grinding levels for hours instead of reevaluating their strategy. One of those is just how you play any game, the other is tedious and drains any enjoyment out of the process. Granted what people are vocal about online is probably not representative of how the average person actually plays games, but still.
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Aug 3, 2017 20:34
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Vargatron posted:I guess what I was trying to say that SABs stabilize the chain gauge in the same way that COM does. I know you're trying to generalize, but to clear this up, "stabilizing the chain gauge" is a common misconception about what actually happens. A lot of people, including me, start out thinking that Com attacks make it easier and Rav attacks make it harder or unstable. But that isn't what happens at all. What it really is talking about is Chain Duration. Chain duration is another value that keeps track of how long the Chain gauge lasts as it depletes, indicated by the color of the Chain gauge. Every attack adds both to the Chain Bonus and the Chain Duration, but in different amounts. Coms add a lot of Chain Duration, but not much Chain Bonus. Ravs add a lot of Chain Bonus, but not much duration. Sabs add a medium amount of both, but if they inflict a status those values get doubled. Interesting note is that Sentinels actually add to the these values as well with their Provoke and Counterattack abilities. Barudak posted:The worst part of FF13 are the eidiolon fights. Hecatoncheir was/is one of my favorite fights, even when I first played it 
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Aug 3, 2017 20:36
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Motto posted:RPGs have big issues with teaching and guiding players to play properly, but it's still bizarre to me that anybody's first instinct when they get wrecked in an RPG is to run in a circle grinding levels for hours instead of reevaluating their strategy. One of those is just how you play any game, the other is tedious and drains any enjoyment out of the process. The thing is that a lot of people don't, for lack of better terms, have the ability to read a language of a game. As a result if they get stuck they'll look for the most obvious and most often the brute force answer because a lot of games can't translate themselves properly. It isn't that they don't understand but that there's a communication gap and the only thing to get through the gap is the bluntest and most brute force answer. Games that give unclear failure states (like what happens with status effects) compound that because without teaching someone why a status effect fails what you're teaching them is "status effects are bad."
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Aug 3, 2017 20:38
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seiferguy posted:Counterpoint: cleric stance was fine, and if you had trouble with it, you were just a lovely player / shouldn't be a healer. The issue is that that you're more or less expected to DPS as a healer in FF14, which is a different paradigm than other MMOs. The toggle mechanic didn't really make sense because it's not adding any interesting gameplay other than "click this to increase your dps (oh btw, that's not your role)". Granted the damage flow in FF14 is way slower than WoW, so you have more time to do some DPS spells and keep the tank up. I know the whole "honest healer" debate is beaten past dead at this point, but I can see why it irks some players to be expected to DPS as a healer.
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Aug 3, 2017 20:51
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ImpAtom posted:Games that give unclear failure states (like what happens with status effects) compound that because without teaching someone why a status effect fails what you're teaching them is "status effects are bad." otoh you have the problem of games where status effects work and are good, but their hit rate is fixed/abysmal/etc so in terms of action economy::result, it ends up being more effective just to punch poo poo until it dies. etrian odyssey kinda has the right idea where your status effect hit rate is tied to various stats and scales up as you get stronger, but like you say still has that problem of poor communication so you can't say whether or not your ailment is missing or if they're just immune
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Aug 3, 2017 20:55
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It's worth noting that some (usually bad) RPGs will just expect the player to grind instead of dolling out the right amount of exp to begin with. Job System games like FFV will eventually expect the player to have a few jobs mastered or at least decently leveled and usually the only way to do that is to grind. RPGs often encourage grinding outside of just leveling too, with things like rare drops and expensive items. RPGs actively encourage grinding in a lot of ways, and so players learn that grinding is an acceptable approach and that it will solve problems like difficulty. Also I think a lot of people have that experience in a game wherein they're a dumbass kid and they run past a bunch of enemies and then have to grind because they're under leveled and wind up taking the wrong lesson from it.
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Aug 3, 2017 22:53
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The White Dragon posted:otoh you have the problem of games where status effects work and are good, but their hit rate is fixed/abysmal/etc so in terms of action economy::result, it ends up being more effective just to punch poo poo until it dies. etrian odyssey kinda has the right idea where your status effect hit rate is tied to various stats and scales up as you get stronger, but like you say still has that problem of poor communication so you can't say whether or not your ailment is missing or if they're just immune Transparency helps a lot with this imo. In Trails games as of Cold Steel you just get handed ailment resist rates a lot of the time and can usually overcome them, resulting in, say, Delay being super useful throughout the whole thing. Motto fucked around with this message at 23:10 on Aug 3, 2017 |
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Aug 3, 2017 22:59
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^^^^ Oh okay, haven't gotten to Cold Steel yet, but that sounds like what I meanMotto posted:RPGs have big issues with teaching and guiding players to play properly, but it's still bizarre to me that anybody's first instinct when they get wrecked in an RPG is to run in a circle grinding levels for hours instead of reevaluating their strategy. One of those is just how you play any game, the other is tedious and drains any enjoyment out of the process. Yeah, unfortunately we don't have detailed statistics like some games have of player states upon certain milestones. It'd be super useful to track average player level/most used abilities/etc to calculate this stuff. That is if they aren't already doing it. To address the point though, I think it's a combination of players getting into a comfy zone when it comes to party creation or skill selection in RPGs. Players want to settle onto something that works for them, and instances where the game forces you to use something else feels like the game shutting down the player. There are certain methods to try and avoid this, but it's where those methods fail that we see people complain about Unfair Difficulty Spikes because they missed some contextual hint. At this stage of RPGs, levels don't exist only to simulate growth, but also as a mechanical fall back measure to help struggling players. The issue is that without some hint or clue, some people might assume that grinding IS the solution. And it doesn't help that there still are a bunch of cases in RPGs where leveling does primarily matter. It reminds me of an old complaint against FF13 where some people didn't like the game limiting crystarium growth throughout the chapters. It was mostly done to incrementally introduce concepts to players, but ends up with the effect of cutting out excessive grinding. EXP scaling that happens in a bunch of RPGs does almost the same thing, or tying ability growth to plot progression. ImpAtom posted:The thing is that a lot of people don't, for lack of better terms, have the ability to read a language of a game. As a result if they get stuck they'll look for the most obvious and most often the brute force answer because a lot of games can't translate themselves properly. It isn't that they don't understand but that there's a communication gap and the only thing to get through the gap is the bluntest and most brute force answer. Games that give unclear failure states (like what happens with status effects) compound that because without teaching someone why a status effect fails what you're teaching them is "status effects are bad." I know FFX-2 and FF13 show enemy status immunities in their Libra info, but do any RPGs specify exact status resistance %'s for the player to reference? I have trouble of thinking of any right now, but maybe that's what you'd need.
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Aug 3, 2017 23:04
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Ventana posted:I know FFX-2 and FF13 show enemy status immunities in their Libra info, but do any RPGs specify exact status resistance %'s for the player to reference? I have trouble of thinking of any right now, but maybe that's what you'd need. ff10 had the right idea: status effects that any enemy will be immune to, regardless of evasion or hit rate, always showed as "IMMUNE" when you used it against them. none of this poo poo where it's like <miss> <miss> <miss> <miss> <miss> <resist, lol bitch>
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Aug 3, 2017 23:13
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Ventana posted:^^^^ Oh okay, haven't gotten to Cold Steel yet, but that sounds like what I mean FF games that had Scan spells.
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Aug 3, 2017 23:17
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The combat in the 15 mp beta is fun. Healing magic > items. All the move sets seem to be based on Armiger animations.
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Aug 3, 2017 23:38
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The White Dragon posted:ff10 had the right idea: status effects that any enemy will be immune to, regardless of evasion or hit rate, always showed as "IMMUNE" when you used it against them. none of this poo poo where it's like <miss> <miss> <miss> <miss> <miss> <resist, lol bitch> Yeah that too of course, though I'd still like showing Status resistance %'s if you're already going to have a Scan/Libra page. Morby posted:FF games that had Scan spells. Pretty sure most of them only cover elemental weaknesses. I think it wasn't till FFX they started to Status immunities from what I checked? And the FFX wasn't clear about it iirc. Ventana fucked around with this message at 02:27 on Aug 4, 2017 |
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Aug 4, 2017 01:03
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Is the Necrohol a totally optional dungeon? I'm going through it but it doesn't feel like I NEED to.
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Aug 4, 2017 01:04
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What exactly is the "earth" element spell in FFXII? I see it on wolves and such, but realized I have never seen a stone or anything like that
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Aug 4, 2017 01:06
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Emron posted:Is the Necrohol a totally optional dungeon? I'm going through it but it doesn't feel like I NEED to. yes. i think you can find the optional eidolon zeromus there?
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Aug 4, 2017 01:07
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Emron posted:Is the Necrohol a totally optional dungeon? I'm going through it but it doesn't feel like I NEED to. Necrohol of Nabudis is completely, 100% optional. If you're following the story and just got there, you went the wrong way from the Salikawoods. You want the other exit, which doesn't require you to go through a boss fight. EDIT: The above post is correct that you can find an Esper there, but it's not Zeromus and it's after a relatively complicated quest. If you wanna look it up, the Esper is Chaos.
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Aug 4, 2017 01:08
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