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fallenturtle posted:He could switch to Hatreon: https://hatreon.us/featured-creators/ He could, but isn't that site incredibly vulnerable to getting hosed with by their service or credit charging system? I mean, does Visa or Paypal want to go on record as openly supporting a site that openly racist, to say nothing of the DNS service or the web server. We're sort of at a turning point, where advertisers and companies realize that the people with money to spend (esp. young urban professionals) don't like these things and don't want to be around them. That's why there's a bunch of "fake woke" stuff and companies actually are caring instead of just saying free speech and shutting up. Hatreon also has the issue that it doesn't have nearly as wide a base to build from, and thus will receive worse terms up the chain. And again, the people who jump there are going to be the worst of the worst, which makes it hard to build up enough business to make things work in the long term. Dan Olsen discussed something similar with Youtube replacements in the past, and I have to think it also applies to payment systems. Again, people not tolerating regressive poo poo and pushing it to the edges of society is normally called progress, not something to wring hands over.
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Aug 4, 2017 23:32
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fallenturtle posted:They did damage property when they protested Milo in Berkeley. I'm not sure I see a problem with smashing up property owned by people hosting Milo, tbh. That seems like a good incentive not to let him near your property.
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Aug 4, 2017 23:35
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Ytlaya posted:I'm not saying the government should tolerate racism. I'm just saying that the justification shouldn't be "because privately owned platforms have the right to limit the speech people use on them"; it seems like ideally you'd just have the government directly regulate ubiquitous platforms like Facebook, Youtube, etc. I agree I'd like that as the best option. But it's not happening, so just having private institutions crush these guys is fine too. quote:(While this has its own problems, there's no solution that doesn't have its share of issues. Allowing complete freedom of speech carries its own harm, as does giving powerful private entities the freedom to control the speech used on their platforms.) Yup. I'm against internet wild west poo poo because it's very obviously a direct threat to my well being. Giving homophobes a place to congregate instead of just economically and socially disenfranchising them is just asking for a roll back of rights. I like being able to have a job and go to a store, so I always side with screwing over the racists and homophobes/misogynists as hard and often as possible.
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Aug 4, 2017 23:37
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The only shame about Berkley is that they didn't nail Milo with a brick.
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Aug 4, 2017 23:37
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fallenturtle posted:As detestable as saying "nazi poo poo" in public is, I don't the anti-nazi side should be throwing the first punch. they should throw the first punch, last punch, and all the punches in between. nazis are filth OwlFancier posted:I'm not sure I see a problem with smashing up property owned by people hosting Milo, tbh. That seems like a good incentive not to let him near your property. please, that property had a family and free speech rights
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Aug 4, 2017 23:43
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Nazis and antifa both deserve beatings
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Aug 4, 2017 23:45
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antifa are good, only incel losers dislike them because they fear them
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Aug 4, 2017 23:45
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I mean I do think property damage is bad when it is community property, something that is owned or primarily used by the people who live there. As damaging that sort of property is rarely an effective attack against anyone who is actually your enemy and mostly harms people you're supposed to be helping. But smashing up a rich university that you go to because it decided to invite milo yananapopolis to talk about how he wants to gently caress kids or whatever he talks about now is 100% cool and good. Intrinsic Field Marshal posted:Nazis and antifa both deserve beatings Nazis yes, antifa no, you definitely a few to the head to see if it fixes your dumb brain.
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Aug 4, 2017 23:48
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OwlFancier posted:Indeed, if there's one thing we know from history, it's that letting them do what they want for a while before acting is the best strategy. In the US I think we can allow freedom of speech and assembly and still have time to stop them if they start breaking the law. While I think their freedom of speech should be protected, I don't think it means they're hate speech should go unmonitored. While kicking their asses may be cathartic, it doesn't really achieve anything on a larger scale and in fact can back fire as they can use the fact that we threw the first punch to try to gain sympathy and more supporters (as they are already doing).
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Aug 4, 2017 23:55
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boner confessor posted:antifa are good, only incel losers dislike them because they fear them I thought incel losers were the main demographic for SomethingAwful
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Aug 4, 2017 23:56
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I don't think people become fascists because fascists get punched, I think people become fascists because they're pieces of poo poo who like fascism. It's about as compelling as "I can't be a leftist because they're mean so I'm going to be a massive racist instead!"
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Aug 4, 2017 23:56
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Freedom of Speech doesn't mean freedom from consequence. Nor does it apply to private citizens, only Government institutions. Christ this isn't hard.
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Aug 4, 2017 23:56
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fallenturtle posted:While kicking their asses may be cathartic, it doesn't really achieve anything on a larger scale richard spencer is afraid to go out in public now fallenturtle posted:and in fact can back fire as they can use the fact that we threw the first punch to try to gain sympathy and more supporters (as they are already doing). anyone who sympathizes with nazis because they're being punched was a nazi all along, friend. there's no hearts and minds here "well, i would approve of black lives matter, but the black cashier at taco bell was rude to me once, so... too bad, blacks. you had your chance"
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Aug 4, 2017 23:59
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OwlFancier posted:I'm not sure I see a problem with smashing up property owned by people hosting Milo, tbh. That seems like a good incentive not to let him near your property. Wells Fargo and Starbucks weren't hosting Milo.
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Aug 5, 2017 00:00
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Antifa defenders have failed to consider the cost of their crusade. Just think of the orphans and bereaved families of the broken windows. Milo outs trans students and has a long history of bullying minorities. Keeping him out of your university is an act of self-defense. Same applies to nazis.
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Aug 5, 2017 00:01
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SteelMentor posted:Freedom of Speech doesn't mean freedom from consequence. Nor does it apply to private citizens, only Government institutions. Free speech is only for the government A very statist hot take there
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Aug 5, 2017 00:01
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fallenturtle posted:Wells Fargo and Starbucks weren't hosting Milo. Capitalists are fair game always 
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Aug 5, 2017 00:01
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fallenturtle posted:Wells Fargo and Starbucks weren't hosting Milo. don't move the goalposts when you don't have a rebuttal. you brought up berkley, now you're talking about private businessess. if you can't stick to a consistent argument don't be surprised when people don't take you seriously Intrinsic Field Marshal posted:Free speech is only for the government not sure if you're triggered here or legitimately have reading problems
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Aug 5, 2017 00:03
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OwlFancier posted:Capitalists are fair game always Too right brother *firebombs a Greggs*
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Aug 5, 2017 00:03
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OwlFancier posted:I don't think people become fascists because fascists get punched, I think people become fascists because they're pieces of poo poo who like fascism. boner confessor posted:anyone who sympathizes with nazis because they're being punched was a nazi all along, friend. there's no hearts and minds here boner confessor posted:richard spencer is afraid to go out in public now boner confessor posted:don't move the goalposts when you don't have a rebuttal. you brought up berkeley, now you're talking about private businessess. if you can't stick to a consistent argument don't be surprised when people don't take you seriously I didn't move the goal posts. Those businesses among others (and also campus properties) were vandalized during the protests against Milo speaking in Berkeley. fallenturtle fucked around with this message at 00:08 on Aug 5, 2017 |
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Aug 5, 2017 00:04
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Intrinsic Field Marshal posted:Too right brother Don't firebomb things you can't control the spread. Get some exercise and smash them up yourself. fallenturtle posted:While amusing, that hardly silences him. I mean it kind of does? "Is afraid to speak in public" does not a good fascist leader make. I'm sure he can tweet sulkily all he wants but yes actually making people afraid to go out and assemble is an effective way of suppressing them?
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Aug 5, 2017 00:04
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OwlFancier posted:Don't firebomb things you can't control the spread. *smashes a Bargain Booze with a sledgehammer while nicking the spirits and Red Hot Monster Munch*
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Aug 5, 2017 00:06
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Intrinsic Field Marshal posted:*smashes a Bargain Booze with a sledgehammer while nicking the spirits and Red Hot Monster Munch* Picked onion 
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Aug 5, 2017 00:07
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fallenturtle posted:Many people become fascists because they're loving morons and loving morons can be easily persuaded to take up loving moronic positions. make up your mind please on whether or not we should be sensitive to the discerning feelings of loving morons or whether they're easy to persuade despite past action thanks fallenturtle posted:I didn't move the goal posts. Those businesses among others (and also campus properties) were vandalized during the protests against Milo speaking in Berkeley. "antifa wrecked berkley" "well they hosted a fascist" "starbucks didn't host anyone" 
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Aug 5, 2017 00:08
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fallenturtle posted:Many people become fascists because they're loving morons and loving morons can be easily persuaded to take up loving moronic positions. He loses some of his power and appeal every time people see his weakness or cowardice. He needs to appear powerful and cool for his trick to work. One more on-camera beating and he becomes a joke. A genuine attempt on his life would have the opposite effect.
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Aug 5, 2017 00:08
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boner confessor posted:make up your mind please on whether or not we should be sensitive to the discerning feelings of loving morons or whether they're easy to persuade despite past action thanks You don't have to be sensitive to them... I fully support protesting them and telling them their wrong. I just don't think we should be the first ones resorting to violence. quote:"They did damage property when they protested Milo in Berkeley." There, I fixed that for you. BTW, Berkeley is also the name of the town, not just the school if you're arguing semantics.
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Aug 5, 2017 00:18
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business hammocks posted:He loses some of his power and appeal every time people see his weakness or cowardice. He needs to appear powerful and cool for his trick to work. One more on-camera beating and he becomes a joke. A genuine attempt on his life would have the opposite effect. I think the best way to make him a joke (or a bigger joke) is to expose the nutty poo poo that comes out of his mouth.
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Aug 5, 2017 00:19
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I mean technically I agree with you, it would be much more efficient to employ massive collective or state action to suppress them rather than resorting to enthusiastic private enterprise fallenturtle posted:I think the best way to make him a joke (or a bigger joke) is to expose the nutty poo poo that comes out of his mouth. Mm yes promote the fascist, after all, nobody has ever manged to convince people en-masse that fascism is good.
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Aug 5, 2017 00:20
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It's funny to me that people who hate nazis promote violence against thoughtcrime.
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Aug 5, 2017 00:20
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fallenturtle posted:You don't have to be sensitive to them... I fully support protesting them and telling them their wrong. I just don't think we should be the first ones resorting to violence. "we" fallenturtle posted:
ah yes i remember when the city of berkeley hosted milo
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Aug 5, 2017 00:20
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fallenturtle posted:I think the best way to make him a joke (or a bigger joke) is to expose the nutty poo poo that comes out of his mouth. I think the best way to make him a joke is to make him afraid to leave his house, because a scat fetishist might punch him again, but to each their own. 
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Aug 5, 2017 00:21
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Monglo posted:It's funny to me that people who hate nazis promote violence against thoughtcrime. there's always exceptions to rules, such as when thoughts are worthless and have no merit except to flag the individual expressing them as a pathetic individual who should be beaten and shamed i'd expect nothing less if pedophile anime fans were brave enough to crawl from their basement lairs and express themselves in public, but i'm sure you've got a stirring defense of them as well
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Aug 5, 2017 00:22
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fallenturtle posted:I think the best way to make him a joke (or a bigger joke) is to expose the nutty poo poo that comes out of his mouth. It doesn't work because of the way us media operate. He's naturally appealing to his potential audience as long as he's pretty and able to articulate his message. If the interviewer expresses contempt for him, that empowers him because he's scoring a point against liberal democracy, which he wishes to overthrow. The things he says only sound nutty if you believe in democracy and universal human rights.
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Aug 5, 2017 00:22
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It's true that the best way to deal with thoughtcrime is before the point that violence becomes a practical response to it, you really shouldn't be waiting to react to it, be proactive in your opposition to it.
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Aug 5, 2017 00:24
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business hammocks posted:He loses some of his power and appeal every time people see his weakness or cowardice. He needs to appear powerful and cool for his trick to work. One more on-camera beating and he becomes a joke. A genuine attempt on his life would have the opposite effect. He would likely just get a bunch of Neo-nazis around him as a security detail/enforcers
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Aug 5, 2017 00:35
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You don't respond to words with violence. Violence against opposing political ideas is a hallmark of authoritarian regimes such as fascism. That makes everyone who punches a "Nazi" a Nazi (or a fascist) themselves making him deserving of getting punched. I haven't read through all the threads on this antifa/alt-right conflict. Sorry if I'm repeating a thing already covered.
Monglo fucked around with this message at 00:41 on Aug 5, 2017 |
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Aug 5, 2017 00:36
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boner confessor posted:there's always exceptions to rules, such as when thoughts are worthless and have no merit except to flag the individual expressing them as a pathetic individual who should be beaten and shamed having a racist thought is not the same as the urge to have sex with a child now is it
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Aug 5, 2017 00:38
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business hammocks posted:He loses some of his power and appeal every time people see his weakness or cowardice. He needs to appear powerful and cool for his trick to work. One more on-camera beating and he becomes a joke. A genuine attempt on his life would have the opposite effect. I've enjoyed Contrapoints' video on "Punching Natsees". https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEyL1rDe60w
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Aug 5, 2017 00:38
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Monglo posted:You don't respond to words with violence. Violent against opposing political ideas is a hallmark of authoritarian regimes such as fascism. That makes everyone who punches a "Nazi" a Nazi (or a fascist) themselves making him deserving of getting punched. I haven't read through all the threads on this antifa/alt-right conflict. Sorry if I'm repeating a thing already covered. Wrong in many ways!
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Aug 5, 2017 00:39
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Monglo posted:You don't respond to words with violence. Violent against opposing political ideas is a hallmark of authoritarian regimes such as fascism. That makes everyone who punches a "Nazi" a Nazi (or a fascist) themselves making him deserving of getting punched. I haven't read through all the threads on this antifa/alt-right conflict. Sorry if I'm repeating a thing already covered. Except for the fact that nazism (and fascism in general, to be honest) is an inherently violent ideology. It, by its very nature, targets a group of people as 'undesirable' and seeks to remove them from the general population of the nation. A violent response to this is, probably, the most correct response, regardless of what you think about political discourse. Beyond that, allowing these people to have a platform allows them to gain legitimacy when they speak - purely by being calm and collected about how 'those people' need to be 'peacefully removed' from society.
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Aug 5, 2017 00:39
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