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Kinda makes you wonder why Robert was making GBS threads his pants so much at the thought of a Dothraki hoard crossing the narrow sea. We know from season one that their weapons can't pierce plate, and it looks like without the backing of a dragon they'd get owned by simple shieldwall tactics. And that's not even getting into the Vale Knights, which are like a 10k strong heavy cavalry unit fully decked out in plate. Like I thought the whole deal was that they were horse archers and would use harassment tactics ala the Mongols, but no lol they're just light cav who will happily charge headlong into a wall of pikes.
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Aug 5, 2017 01:11
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Sydin posted:Kinda makes you wonder why Robert was making GBS threads his pants so much at the thought of a Dothraki hoard crossing the narrow sea. We know from season one that their weapons can't pierce plate, and it looks like without the backing of a dragon they'd get owned by simple shieldwall tactics. And that's not even getting into the Vale Knights, which are like a 10k strong heavy cavalry unit fully decked out in plate. They had horse archers as well.
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Aug 5, 2017 01:27
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They discuss it briefly in the books, the Dothraki can't conquer Westeros, but they can loving wreck the civilian population and towns and be impossible to stop. Heavy cav can't catch light cav. Infantry can't attack cav. Enough of that and some of the Westeros are gonna switch sides. Phone posting so really brief tactics discussion: cavalry can't defeat infantry that takes proper defensive formations, and infantry can't attack cav that stays on the move. Cavalry is used to scout, prevent enemy scouts from scouting you, raiding behind enemy lines and destroying dnemy forced which have broken formation. Horses won't run into a shield wall or pike line. They just won't. Once your artillery or infantry (or dragon) breaks the enemy line, that's when your cav guys wreck poo poo. Horse archers are pretty good at harrassing infantry, which is where your infantry comes into play. This has been your very very simple history lesson.
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Aug 5, 2017 01:36
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Sydin posted:Kinda makes you wonder why Robert was making GBS threads his pants so much at the thought of a Dothraki hoard crossing the narrow sea. We know from season one that their weapons can't pierce plate, and it looks like without the backing of a dragon they'd get owned by simple shieldwall tactics. And that's not even getting into the Vale Knights, which are like a 10k strong heavy cavalry unit fully decked out in plate. Yeah why would they be worried about a bunch of dudes on horseback who kill literally everyone they find like mega locusts.
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Aug 5, 2017 01:38
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Smiling Jack posted:Horses won't run into a shield wall or pike line. They just won't. Tell that to D&D.
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Aug 5, 2017 01:43
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Apparently Jamie has some golden balls to go with his hand. His charge was remarkably heroic. Dumb but heroic.
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Aug 5, 2017 02:03
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Smiling Jack posted:They discuss it briefly in the books, the Dothraki can't conquer Westeros, but they can loving wreck the civilian population and towns and be impossible to stop. Heavy cav can't catch light cav. Infantry can't attack cav. Enough of that and some of the Westeros are gonna switch sides. How about Horses in forests like how they beat Mance Raider?
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Aug 5, 2017 02:09
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Sydin posted:Tell that to D&D. I'll tell them it's clearly defined in Marxist theory
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Aug 5, 2017 02:19
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Skinty McEdger posted:Apparently Jamie has some golden balls to go with his hand. His charge was remarkably heroic. Jamie just wanted to be 2 for 2 for slain dragon tyrants.
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Aug 5, 2017 02:35
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Sydin posted:Tell that to D&D. This is the stupidest thing to bicker over, but horses certainly were trained to charge into spears and did so for hundreds of years. Training, momentum, and being surrounded by other horses and unable to turn leads to spectacular collisions.
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Aug 5, 2017 02:40
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i81icu812 posted:This is the stupidest thing to bicker over, but horses certainly were trained to charge into spears and did so for hundreds of years. This is wrong sorry
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Aug 5, 2017 02:45
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Smiling Jack posted:Horses won't run into a shield wall or pike line. They just won't. Once your artillery or infantry (or dragon) breaks the enemy line, that's when your cav guys wreck poo poo. This is just not entirely true. Horses were trained to charge into formations. Frederik the Great for example made sure their horses were trained long enough that they could charge in such a close formation that the rider's legs could touch each other. The Polish Winged Hussars were also famous for this and they charged into actual deep pike formations and not just a loose Lannister spear formation which had maybe 3 or 4 ranks (something like this could easily be broken, even by light cav because gaps would be created fast and I think people understimate the forces created in such charges, a horse wouldn't even care if it bumped into a shield / human body at this speed, they often weren't even stopped by severe injuries). If horses wouldn't have charged formations or be that easily scared by obstacles cavalry wouldn't have been such a powerful military tool, especially from the medieval period onwards (the biggest issue was that it took us some time to breed proper horses for this task). Charges were even done till the 19th (!) century, just take this account of Winston Churchill from 1891: quote:Eager warriors sprang forward to anticipate the shock. The rest stood firm to meet it. The Lancers acknowledged the apparition only by an increase of pace. Each man wanted sufficient momentum to drive through such a solid line. The flank troops, seeing that they overlapped, curved inwards like the horns of a moon. But the whole event was a matter of seconds. The riflemen, firing bravely to the last, were swept head over heels into the khor, and jumping down with them, at full gallop and in the closest order, the British squadrons struck the fierce brigade with one loud furious shout. The collision was prodigious. Nearly thirty Lancers, men and horses, and at least two hundred Arabs were overthrown. The shock was stunning to both sides, and for perhaps ten wonderful seconds no man heeded his enemy. Terrified horses wedged in the crowd; bruised and shaken men, sprawling in heaps, struggled, dazed and stupid, to their feet, panted, and looked about them. Several fallen Lancers had even time to remount. In history It was still a relatively rare thing outside of heavy cav doing it because it's obviously a very costly tactic but it could be deployed and the biggest danger wasn't the intial charge or impact on spears/pikes, it's losing your momentum and getting stuck/surrounded by infantry, that's the real risk. Also to me it looked like the Dothraki at first didn't do a full charge, one of the first attacks shows them slowing down / stopping infront of a spear formation and engaging in melee combat and the full charges happen when there are clear gaps in the Lannister formation. PS: People also underestimate the difference training/the human influence makes. War horses weren't like our horses trained to be cute and docile for a nice ride, there is a reason why it took humans quite some time to domesticate them, they can be very aggressive/scary animals: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7w0Q-JS9RME LinkesAuge fucked around with this message at 03:05 on Aug 5, 2017 |
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Aug 5, 2017 02:58
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I'm going to do something I haven't done in years and defend this show. It's clear from the overhead view that the Dothraki riders, at least at first, charge into the gaps in the Lannister line that were blown open by Dany and Drogon. They then turn right and left and flank the line from behind. Later on there's a lot of charging into spears but at first everything looked alright in terms of tactics.
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Aug 5, 2017 02:59
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How do you think Daenerys would react if she knew they made a book/TV series about her?
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Aug 5, 2017 03:06
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Man Musk posted:How do you think Daenerys would react if she knew they made a book/TV series about her? The royalties are hers by right
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Aug 5, 2017 03:07
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I'm just chalking it up to not so great editing because as a tactic, "Dany blows a hole in the enemy formation for her Dothraki to ride through" is pretty good.
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Aug 5, 2017 03:08
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My work here is done
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Aug 5, 2017 03:16
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Max posted:I'm just chalking it up to not so great editing because as a tactic, "Dany blows a hole in the enemy formation for her Dothraki to ride through" is pretty good. It mostly seems like the scale of the line isn't emphasized. In the shot where Danny makes her second pass you can see the horde has partially going through hole, but there's hundreds of yards of pikemen along the supply train still being slammed into. The Dothraki are going full-tilt w/o any sort of direction, so the ones who don't happen to be near the burn ward seem to just keep keep with the plan of slamming into the soldiers and maybe hopping over them. On the subject of having no command structure or organization, the fact that nobody was there to rally up a group of dudes to defend Danny was super frustrating. It seems stupid until you notice that her allies are just kinda willy-nily killing whatever happens to be in their line of sight.
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Aug 5, 2017 03:30
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You know when every single person in a discussion has access to Wikipedia it's kinda funny that people can think they can get away with dropping bad history lessons.
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Aug 5, 2017 03:32
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qbert posted:You know when every single person in a discussion has access to Wikipedia it's kinda funny that people can think they can get away with dropping bad history lessons.  let's talk about tank destroyer doctrine next https://www.quora.com/In-medieval-warfare-will-horses-cavalry-charge-right-into-pikemen-or-other-blockades
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Aug 5, 2017 03:33
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I'm honestly surprised most of the Lannisters didn't just yell gently caress This and run after the first pass of the dragon
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Aug 5, 2017 03:35
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Max posted:I'm honestly surprised most of the Lannisters didn't just yell gently caress This and run after the first pass of the dragon Yeah it didn't really emphasize how demoralizing that would be. Just the pure despair it would cause in the ranks. I guess that's one thing the book would do better.
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Aug 5, 2017 03:38
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Do you think Ed Sheeren got burned alive?
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Aug 5, 2017 03:38
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Smiling Jack posted:
I love that the top answer is given by a "military history student" who cites no evidence, and the answer right below it contradicts everything he said and cites multiple examples.
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Aug 5, 2017 03:41
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qbert posted:I love that the top answer is given by a "military history student" who cites no evidence, and the answer right below it contradicts everything he said and cites multiple examples. whoa whoa whoa with your reason and logic
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Aug 5, 2017 03:43
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Shimrra Jamaane posted:Do you think Ed Sheeren got burned alive? He saw fire and ran.
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Aug 5, 2017 03:46
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I was so afraid Bronn would die there, real happy to see he has some plot armor going for him as a fan favorite.
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Aug 5, 2017 03:48
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Just saw the battle. Can't wait to see that in HD on Sunday.
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Aug 5, 2017 04:10
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So are they going to reveal who tried to kill Bran? In the books Joffrey did it but I think they could change it for the show and have it be Littlefinger's work.
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Aug 5, 2017 04:13
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Arya having more emotion fighting Brienne than reuniting with Sansa or Bran  After the lame Unsullied battle last week I'm glad the budget went towards the Dothrakis in this episode.
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Aug 5, 2017 04:38
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ultramiraculous posted:It mostly seems like the scale of the line isn't emphasized. In the shot where Danny makes her second pass you can see the horde has partially going through hole, but there's hundreds of yards of pikemen along the supply train still being slammed into. The Dothraki are going full-tilt w/o any sort of direction, so the ones who don't happen to be near the burn ward seem to just keep keep with the plan of slamming into the soldiers and maybe hopping over them. her super important bloodriders were with Tyrion lol also yeah it drives me nuts that regular soldiers aren't immediately scattered by a dragon, so if they want to just have dothraki kill them whatever, fine also Jamie is the real hero of this show
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Aug 5, 2017 04:44
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Shneak posted:Arya having more emotion fighting Brienne than reuniting with Sansa or Bran She looked so happy 
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Aug 5, 2017 04:44
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Isn't the gold just gonna be melted down into a pile of gold or does dragons breath destroy gold?
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Aug 5, 2017 04:55
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ultramiraculous posted:On the subject of having no command structure or organization, the fact that nobody was there to rally up a group of dudes to defend Danny was super frustrating. It seems stupid until you notice that her allies are just kinda willy-nily killing whatever happens to be in their line of sight. Daenerys had a dragon. Maaaaayyyybe they figured it was covered. Which it was. GobiasIndustries posted:She looked so happy I'm wondering what Sansa is thinking right now. One sibling comes back crippled and a head case, the other comes back kinda scary.
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Aug 5, 2017 05:00
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Gold made it into King's Landing. But real talk, deep water + full armor = ded. RIP Jaime.
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Aug 5, 2017 05:01
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Chef Boyardeez Nuts posted:But real talk, deep water + full armor = ded. Hahahaha, do you even watch fiction? Unless we see a corpse, characters aren't dead.
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Aug 5, 2017 05:01
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Chef Boyardeez Nuts posted:Gold made it into King's Landing. The stream was like 10 feet wide, its gonna be like 3 feet deep. Its not like streams get as deep as the Mariana Trench.
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Aug 5, 2017 05:02
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Tenzarin posted:Isn't the gold just gonna be melted down into a pile of gold or does dragons breath destroy gold? Randyll mentions that all the gold made it into the city. So no there won't be much melted gold, if any. What Dany actually burned was mostly the grain and food that army had seized during their march back home to King's Landing. The food that is desperately needed to keep everyone from starving to death during the winter. In other words, Dany flew in to kick rear end yet again, but unwittingly hosed things up for the long term yet again. Yureina fucked around with this message at 05:04 on Aug 5, 2017 |
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Aug 5, 2017 05:02
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grack posted:I'm wondering what Sansa is thinking right now. One sibling comes back crippled and a head case, the other comes back kinda scary. I think I saw a smirk from her when she was watching the sparring.
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Aug 5, 2017 05:03
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WampaLord posted:Hahahaha, do you even watch fiction? Of course he will live, because plot. He shouldn't though because that Die Hard swim below the fire poo poo works only on the presumption that you aren't wearing a suit made of steel
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Aug 5, 2017 05:04
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