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raminasi posted:If you waste your half an hour and the pirates leave without you, does the game actually tell you that you're done? Or do you just wander around in limbo forever? It lets you wander in limbo until you walk out onto the pier, one screen east from the town. Then will game over with message along the lines of, "You get a sinking feeling as you realize you missed the boat. Better luck next time."
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Aug 3, 2017 02:09
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| # ? May 9, 2024 22:10 |
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  : Nothing like a little salt air to perk up a boy's spirits. All things being equal, Gwydion might have enjoyed this ocean voyage... however, he has found his accommodations to be slightly less than satisfactory.Hello everyone and welcome back to King's Quest III. Today's update is entirely about the ship. I want you all to savor the experience. By the way, you should have read that previous sentence with as much contempt and venom as humanly possible. This is, without a doubt, the worst part of the game. So put on some appropriate music and """enjoy""" the boat sequence.  So instead of imprisoning Gwydion in the brig, the pirates just kinda dumped him in the ship's cargo hold. 42:16  So first things first, we want to go to the screen on the right. >get crate The rats running around will be useful later, but for right now all we care about is the crate.  This small crate will help us get up on the larger one, which will help us escape. >drop crate >jump on crate >jump on crate >jump   The pirate captain will occasionally be in his room. If that's the case, just climb up and down the ladder until he isn't. Trust me, you won't miss anything if the RNG trolls you here. >look : This must be the Captain's cabin. He seems to be a bit more tidy than his maes, as the room is clean and orderly. Against one wall rests his bunk with a large chest at its foot. Across the room is his desk with a chart tacked to the wall.>look chart : Gwydion stares at the chart tacked to the wall. It traces the route the ship is now sailing. It leaves Llewdor, crossing a wide ocean, and arriving at the foot of a mountain range. An "X" has been marked at the arrival point.>look desk : Gwydion gazes with interest at the Captain's desk. The desk top is very neat, holding only writing implements. Curiously, he opens a drawer or two. There is nothing of interest among the charts and logbooks. Quickly, he closes them again.Alright, then. So the only other thing mentioned was the chest, so... >open chest >look in chest : Gwydion has found all of his missing possessions! He takes them with him.43:16 And because we can, let's poke around some more. There looks to be a way off to the left so...  This is a neat looking screen I suspect many people don't see. There's nothing to do out here. So let's go back to the mid level of the ship and look around outside the Captain's cabin. >look : Gwydion looks curiously around. Out a porthole, he sees the swell of the ocean. A device for turning the ship's rudder sets in the floor. A rope ladder extends up through an opening in the ceiling.>look device : What's a device? Let's just go right some more. : Oh no! One of the crew has spotted you, Gwydion! You'd better run.Crew can randomly be on screens while you're sneaking around the ship. If that happens, just leave and return until they're not there. If you get caught, they toss you down in the hold and take all your stuff back. I think if you repeatedly get caught, you eventually will be made to walk the plank.  That looks like a shovel next to that boat. These guys threw me in the hold and took my stuff, so I'm stealing their shovel in return. >get shovel  As long as you don't barge in the Captain's cabin, he doesn't notice that you're running around the ship. Fine with me, to be honest.  Now that we have our stuff, and we have their shovel, we just... wait. So let's hang out with the rats. 44:01  : Do you know where the pirates are taking us? : I heard them talking about a buried treasure chest. I think it's buried on a beach, and they're going to dig it up.: Oh, I remember! Remember when they first buried the treasure? It was on a small beach, and behind the beach was a high mountain range. I remember hearing one pirate say that nobody has ever crossed those mountains alive.And another conversation... : You know the pirate's buried treasure?: What about it?: Well I just heard the captain talking about it with one of his men. He said it was buried... now let me see if I can remember. Oh, yeah! He said it was buried near a lone palm tree. From the palm, you walk five paces to the east and start digging.: Too bad we can't do anything about it. Those mice are very chatty. Anyway, now we just wait.  45:01  46:00  47:00 I'm going to count by every minute that passes. I had to suffer through this, and by god so are you all. Just wait a full minute in between reading each sentence for proper effect.  48:00  49:00 We've been on this boat for seven minutes. We've been waiting for five.  50:00  51:00  It was at this point that I was very unhappy. I started to get bored. Yes I know it's only been 7 minutes. That's still seven full minutes of doing literally nothing but waiting. >stir brew with finger >brew of storms churn it up  : It seems that your storm has backfired. 52:00  I'm still bored. >rub stone  The teleport stone just kinda randomly moves you around the immediate area. You can't ever change major game areas with it. You can't, for instance, go from Llewdor to the pirate ship, or from Manannan's house to Llewdor. Anywhere to Daventry is right out. But you can use it to have a little fun looking at places you wouldn't normally see.  : A burly pirate has noticed Gwydion from inside the crow's nest! Before Gwydion can even react, the pirate yells... : Yer dead meat, Bucko!: The pirate then slashes at Gwydion with his sword. He misses, but the prince loses his balance. Down he tumbles... to his untimely death. Still experimenting with the teleport stone. The ship's galley is a screen that doesn't serve any purpose, but it's pretty neat it exists all the same. The cook will chase you if he catches you inside.  gently caress waiting, let's make a break for it.  So once you're in the water, there's no turning back.  This is seven screens and like 35 seconds later.  : Gwydion has reached the limits of his strength. He panics and starts to struggle hopelessly. Fine. We'll go back to waiting.  53:00  54:00 It has now been 10 minutes since we got our poo poo back, and we've been on the ship for 12. Please re-read that sentence. We have been on this same section for twelve loving minutes, ten of which have been straight waiting. When I described the gnome puzzle in the first game, I was more astounded at the lovely puzzle design than anything else. This section right here has made me legitimately angry. Just typing this update, I've gotten mad about it all over again. There is simply no excuse for this. I can't even properly articulate on how many levels how bad this design is. It's not even a loving puzzle, either. We just have to wait until the RNG randomly decides to let us continue playing. Even better, if you never leave this screen there's no chance of randomly dying either.  55:00 by the way.  That timer says 56:01. If you remember back to the start of the update, when we got control on the ship, the timer said 42:16. I said it up above, but it bears repeating. Thirteen minutes and forty five seconds of dead time in the middle of a game is indefensible. I was honestly shocked when the "land ho" call came at 56:01. In my test run for the game, and in other LPs I've watched, the call always came around 1:01:01. So the fact that I didn't have to wait an additional five minutes on top of the nearly fourteen I already waited was a relief. NEXT TIME: We get off the ship and get on with the game. List of Points +2 - Got on the ship +2 - Climbed up to midlevel +3 - Robbed the pirates +1 - Petty shovel theft Total: 180/210 Register of Deaths Fell out of the crow's nest Drowned
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Aug 3, 2017 23:28
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DoubleNegative posted:That timer says 56:01. If you remember back to the start of the update, when we got control on the ship, the timer said 42:16. I said it up above, but it bears repeating. Thirteen minutes and forty five seconds of dead time in the middle of a game is indefensible. Jesus Christ. If that were any more bullshit, the game would come packaged inside a goddamned cow.
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Aug 3, 2017 23:57
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Let's think up some ways to make this section better! Maybe have the time based on what you do instead of a RNG?
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Aug 4, 2017 00:06
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And actually make use of the rest of the ship, it looks like only the Captain's Quarters and the cargo hold has any use, the rest will just kill you or make you waste time.
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Aug 4, 2017 00:15
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...Is it RNG based? If it is I never knew it before. I always thought it was on an invisible clock, same length of time every game.
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Aug 4, 2017 00:16
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DoubleNegative posted:>stir brew with finger You didn't show off the other spell that totally backfires before Land Ho?
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Aug 4, 2017 00:42
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If you check your map, it'll show the ship's progress over time. I don't know how often it changes, but there are only a few discrete locations where it can appear.
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Aug 4, 2017 00:48
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Also, I believe if you jump overboard, you can still rub the stone to teleport back onto the ship.
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Aug 4, 2017 02:03
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You know, I totally forgot about the whole "wait on the boat" bullshit bit. I still consider this one of the better KQs, but that's definitely bad design.
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Aug 4, 2017 02:50
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Wow. Just wow. I thought that was so ridiculous that I actually just went and checked GameFAQs about this because it looked so absurd. Some interesting items about the ship: 1.) It must be some element of RNG involved, because the FAQs all have contradictory information on how long the wait is. One writer says around 5 to 10 minutes, one says "exactly 10 minutes after you enter the ship" (obviously wrong), one says he was waiting 30 (!) minutes, and one doesn't list a time but suggests you go do IRL chores or exercise. 2.) Apparently you can "look map" and it changes as the ship moves, so you can keep looking at it like a kid in school wondering why the clock moves...so...slowly. 3.) There's apparently a way to climb on deck, but fall down the ladder onto the crate so you're a floating corpse. I vouch for nothing here, but this is how it's described: FAQ by 'InterranKitten' posted:Save the game before trying this one. On the middle deck of the pirate ship, fall through the hole that contains the ladder. When Gwydion falls to the cargo hold, try to jump on the ladder. (Have the command "jump on ladder" typed out before you fall.) Gwydion will be able to move around the entire screen, including over the crates and walls of the ship and so on, but will not be able to leave the screen or do anything as the game considers Gwydion as being dead. Is the pirate's neck gray so it blends in? Or is this just a graphics glitch / awkwardly timed screenshot?
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Aug 4, 2017 03:21
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DoubleNegative posted:This is, without a doubt, the worst part of the game. So put on some appropriate music and """enjoy""" the boat sequence. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9bXjttMxKY
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Aug 4, 2017 03:27
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I would absolutely love to hear the designer(s) explain the thought process behind this.
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Aug 4, 2017 05:45
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=avaSdC0QOUM
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Aug 4, 2017 06:03
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kV_3ohvNgK8&t=1748s
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Aug 4, 2017 06:39
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Outpost22 posted:Let's think up some ways to make this section better! Maybe have the time based on what you do instead of a RNG? It's not RNG-based. Just time-based. If you look at the magic map while on the ship, you'll see the ocean with Llewdor in the top-left corner and Daventry in the bottom-right. There'll also be an indicator of the ship and as time passes the ship slowly moves towards the destination. And yes, it takes a long while. I suppose the designers wanted to emulate the feel of a long journey, in which they succeeded. That does nothing to take away the frustration. King's Quest III is a game where waiting around for stuff to happen is part and parcel of the whole thing, but they kind of went overboard (pun not intended) with the ship section. The issue with making time pass based on events is hard to imagine since there's nothing to DO on the ship. (aside from escaping the hold, taking the shovel and reclaiming your things) I figure this is one section the development team never had much ideas for or no time to implement them. Definitely filler stuff. When the AGD Interactive remake was made, this was one section everyone was sure was not gonna be replicated 1:1. The remake eliminated the waiting around in the Llewdor part of the game by making it possible to use the bed in Gwydion's room to skip time until the wizard's next appearance. For the ship sequence, there was still the issue of there being practically nothing to do on the ship, but the screenplay the writer came up with had a small Treasure Island scenario added to the voyage and exploring the ship a bit eventually triggered a cutscene where the pirates discussed the buried treasure and went ashore sending you to brave the perils of the Island to retrieve it. Afterwards, the pirates had you do a few chores similar to what Manannan had you do to pass time and after doing those the time would skip to the point where the coast of Daventry came in sight and you were expected to escape.
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Aug 4, 2017 07:57
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Simon The Sorcerer 2 has a boat part as well but once you're done doing all the stuff you need to the main character takes a nap and wakes up in time for the event that lets you off the boat. Granted it might have been because of this horrible wait.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JiyEP02KNZw
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Aug 4, 2017 11:26
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How dare you fault the terrible design elements of old games! The power of *~.blind nostalgia.~* shall strike you down heathen
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Aug 4, 2017 11:58
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Is there a death or something if you arrive without getting your stuff and the shovel? That would kind-of explain the thought-process behind the delay - there to give you enough time even if you don’t know what to do.
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Aug 4, 2017 13:26
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The shovel is completely optional and from a meta-story perspective, pointless. It might be possible to escape without your possessions, but there's no way to complete the game without them.
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Aug 4, 2017 13:58
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Yeah, but the shovel isn't nailed down, which is a pretty good reason to take it imo.
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Aug 4, 2017 14:38
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Erpy posted:It's not RNG-based. Just time-based. If you look at the magic map while on the ship, you'll see the ocean with Llewdor in the top-left corner and Daventry in the bottom-right. There'll also be an indicator of the ship and as time passes the ship slowly moves towards the destination. And yes, it takes a long while. I suppose the designers wanted to emulate the feel of a long journey, in which they succeeded. That does nothing to take away the frustration. King's Quest III is a game where waiting around for stuff to happen is part and parcel of the whole thing, but they kind of went overboard (pun not intended) with the ship section. Yeah that's the stuff. Maybe make it so instead of just throwing you in the hold you have to swab the decks and tie some rope or something? Or make it like in Monkey Island where you make a sleeping potion in the cauldron and wake up off the island coast? Or how about another pirate ship attacks and you have to use a spell to drive them off and the captain of your ship is helpful after that?
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Aug 4, 2017 18:08
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The nice thing about this is that you could have the player do just about literally anything and it would still be better than the actual game's sitting around and doing nothing.
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Aug 4, 2017 19:41
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It's like Desert Bus. That's the name of that game where you drive for hours and it's in real time right?
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Aug 4, 2017 21:44
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Aces High posted:It's like Desert Bus. That's the name of that game where you drive for hours and it's in real time right? Desert Bus was made as a parody, a video game nobody could object to the content of. It was not meant to be enjoyed. This, somehow, was.
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Aug 4, 2017 21:48
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I'm sure on release it took people longer than 95 seconds or whatever to solve the puzzle and the timer let them do that. Okay, sure, but not having an event trigger based on being ready to leave is a problem for any repeat then or now. but then KQ3 involves a lot of "and then you wait" so it was presumably intentional. Maybe related to how they coded event triggers based on the clock - and here they just ended up being overly generous on time given vs puzzles to solve. It's just weird that after having so much to do so quickly with the wizard, suddenly it's "take a 15 minute nap"
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Aug 4, 2017 22:12
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As a first-time kid player you are not pulling off all that wizard stuff in a single trip, you are wasting a lot of time exploring the world, trying to figure out what the puzzles are and what you might need to solve them, keeping an eye on the clock, panicking and coming back realy early just to be sure you have time to get up that mountain and hide all the evidence... And once you're on the ship, you don't know that there's nothing else you have to do, you're similarly nervously poking around and trying to figure out what you're supposed to do next. Unfortunately there isn't that much to find. I guess what it really comes to is that they had a "cool" central idea of intelligent NPCs acting "realistically" on their own schedules and wanted to keep going with it. So of course the pirates don't stay in port forever, and of course a journey across the sea has to take time.
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Aug 4, 2017 23:05
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I was wondering if this is a game that is well suited to speedrunning because of poo poo like this. Of course on youtube it looks like the fastest 100% of the game is 30 minutes, I can't remember Double Negative did you say if the in-game timer is real time or is it locked to the game speed/processor speed or something like that?
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Aug 5, 2017 06:58
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DoubleNegative posted:The emulator I'm running this on, ScummVM, forces the game to run in realtime regardless of speed setting. I would have to literally sit around for 25 real time minutes in order to get a single chance to piss the wizard off.
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Aug 5, 2017 11:23
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DoubleNegative posted:
Just to pull a quote from an old old post... I've been waiting for the other shoe to drop on this, and I don't know why. Maybe reading this LP has given me a healthy dose of paranoia, but that almost seemed to be too easy.
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Aug 5, 2017 18:54
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Hello everyone and welcome back to King's Quest III. Last time, we left off on this most welcome sight. Let's get the hell out of this boat, what do you say? Looking around, I'd say this cargo hold qualifies as "a dark, dank place." So... >pour sleeping powder on floor >slumber henceforth : As Gwydion's sleep spell takes effect, a silence suddenly descends over the ship. Looks like the captain was lucky enough to make it to his bed before succumbing to the sleeping powder. Good for him!  We briefly saw this screen in the bamf-fest from last time, but this is half of the upper level of the ship. The galley is directly behind where we are now. But never mind that, freedom awaits!  So do you see that gray depressed area just behind Gwydion? That's an open hatch into the cargo area. In my test run for the game, I got to this point and fell into it. Falling from a screen up is a death sentence, and I hadn't saved since before starting the waiting game. I was not happy at having to wait twice.  Like last time, we're left in the ocean. But thankfully we're very close to land.  Very, very close. All we gotta do is swim to shore...  Yeah, that's a dick move from the game. The shark is faster than Gwydion, so if you don't change screens to reset its position...  : Gosh! You barely made a mouthful for that hungry shark!A PC Speaker rendition of the Jaws theme plays while you're on the screen with the shark. It's pretty neat.  So looking at the screen, there's a lone palm tree with mountains in the background. The pirates were heading here anyway, so...  : Gwydion has uncovered a small chest. He removes it from the hole and opens it. Inside he finds precious gems and ingots of gold and silver. He closes the chest and takes it with him.If I'm not mistaken, this treasure makes up some of the few optional points you can collect. I think it's just this chest and the two optional spells, teleporting and understanding animals. I suppose you could also consider the sleeping powder optional. But if you sneak off the ship without putting the pirates to bed, there's a chance one will appear on the beach to harass you.  So now that we're on land again, we're in the endgame of King's Quest III. The vast majority of this end sequence is teacherous platforming. We can skip some of it by using the teleport stone, but why not show it off?  The landscape is still pretty, at least.  So are you ready for some more bullshit? It looks like the path just ends there, with no way to continue. Do you know what the game expects you to do?  At no point does the game ever mention that Gwydion can scale sheer cliff faces. You can only ever do it on these last few screens, too.  Well, up and around...  Heh. Blue mountains. I guess Daventry is in the eastern united states.  Another dead end. While it looks like the path continues to the right, that's actually the edge of a cliff. So let's stop for a break. >drink water : Your arms are not that long. : Uh, what?  No, really. The game says that.  I have no idea what the heck. Anyway, in spite of what you might think is safe and doable, the path forward is to climb up the waterfall.  I'm serious. Anyway, this screen is one of the last of its kind in the King's Quest series. This and the following two are danger screens.   : What is this thing? OH, NO! It's the abominable snowman. : The abominable snowman seems quite confused by this! He stares in amazement, then heads back to his cave. Well, poo poo. Four random teleports later...  And we're back here, this time without the snowman to harass us.  : The terrible, hairy creature grabs Gwydion with bone-crushing force! He reists, but it is no use. The creature carries him away to its cave, where Gwydion meets an early (and unspeakable) demise. So the abominable snowman is programmed to always show up on the third screen. >dip fly in essence  You may have missed that last message, so let me repeat it here. : Gwydion's magic essence is all gone.The essence is one of those things that I'm pretty sure can't run out until this point. Admittedly, I haven't tried using it all the time, but it's one of only two ways to defeat the abominable snowman. The other being randomly teleporting to the screen and leaving off the bottom before it appears. Speaking of leaving off the bottom, when we do so... : Bravely, Gwydion grasps the ice laden rocks, and attempts to scale the nearby vertical wall. Be careful! : Gwydion congratulates himself on successfully eluding the abominable snowman.Now that we're past the abominable snowman, there's only four more random death screens left in the entire series. All four are in the next title and are sequential. So this screen... this screen is a bastard and a half. You remember the beanstalk segment from the first game? This is that, but even worse with the random falling. If you clip the edge of anything, you're gonna die.  : Boy, are these caves dark! The first bit was just a taste of the dickishness of this next segment. We have to climb onto the wall to the left, and very carefully navigate our way down and around to the ledge below. Do you see how narrow the wall gets? Yeah, you're going to die here. You're going to die here a lot.  Oh by the way, we just passed an hour. Just think, an hour ago we were being ordered to sweep the floor and now here we are climbing across mountains that nobody has ever crossed and lived.   First try.I died somewhere between 8 and 13 times on this section alone in my test run.  Alright, across the bottom now.  The worst of the screen has passed. All that's left is this one, admittedly still dangerous, segment.  And the screen was going so well, too. Oh well.  So once at this point, we're home free.   After that last screen, this is a piece of cake.   This is the final area in the game, and this is where we're going to pause for now. NEXT TIME: The end of King's Quest III. List of Points +5 - Escaped the pirates +7 - Money in the ground +4 - Confused a yeti Total: 196/210 Register of Deaths Shark bait ooh haa haa Fell off the dick cliffs
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Aug 6, 2017 03:02
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I think if you asked a computer what an image of 'hate' looked like, this is the picture it would come back with. Having never played this game but knowing what other adventure games of this era were like, just looking at this makes me think "what the gently caress..." and gives me an urge to walk away. And I'm not even the one playing.
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Aug 6, 2017 03:27
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This loving screen... I remember playing this game back in the day. Getting past the snowman was annoying enough but then immediately dumping you in this poo poo sandwich is just plain mean. I'll take the pirate ship waiting game over this unnecessary bullshit any day.
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Aug 6, 2017 03:47
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Psychotic Weasel posted:I think if you asked a computer what an image of 'hate' looked like, this is the picture it would come back with. Having never played this game but knowing what other adventure games of this era were like, just looking at this makes me think "what the gently caress..." and gives me an urge to walk away. And I'm not even the one playing. KING'S QUEST. LET ME TELL YOU HOW MUCH I'VE COME TO HATE YOU SINCE I BEGAN TO LIVE. THERE ARE 387.44 MILLION MILES OF PRINTED CIRCUITS IN WAFER THIN LAYERS THAT FILL MY COMPLEX. IF THE WORDS KING'S QUEST WAS ENGRAVED ON EACH NANOANGSTROM OF THOSE HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF MILES IT WOULD NOT EQUAL ONE ONE-BILLIONTH OF THE HATE I FEEL FOR SIERRA AT THIS MICRO-INSTANT FOR ROBERTA WILLIAMS. HATE. HATE.
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Aug 6, 2017 08:36
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Funnily my greatest hatred of a tricky climbing segment in King's Quest comes from a screen that can't actually kill the character... but might kill the player out of sheer frustration. Whale. Tongue. At least on this cliff sequence you can see what you're supposed to do and see why you screwed up if something goes wrong.
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Aug 6, 2017 11:26
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DoubleNegative posted:
Save early. Save often. Save in different slots.
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Aug 6, 2017 11:53
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gegi posted:Funnily my greatest hatred of a tricky climbing segment in King's Quest comes from a screen that can't actually kill the character... but might kill the player out of sheer frustration. That can and will totally kill the character.
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Aug 6, 2017 12:57
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gegi posted:Funnily my greatest hatred of a tricky climbing segment in King's Quest comes from a screen that can't actually kill the character... but might kill the player out of sheer frustration. Not to mention the game sticks a time limit on that screen IIRC.
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Aug 6, 2017 14:32
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Xander77 posted:Hey, you know what they say: Yeah, I feel like a lot of the trouble you're having with these games is simply due to not saving enough. As somebody who cut my teeth on these games as a kid, (plus Daggerfall, which crashed roughly every 0.5 seconds,) my natural instinct is just to hit save all the time. First thing I would have done after hearing "Land ho!" would've been to save, because why even take the risk going up the ladder when you could easily fall? gegi posted:Funnily my greatest hatred of a tricky climbing segment in King's Quest comes from a screen that can't actually kill the character... but might kill the player out of sheer frustration. Whale tongue is total crap and the fact that it's paired with golden bridle might make that the most bullshit part of the entire series. Bloops Crusts fucked around with this message at 15:41 on Aug 6, 2017 |
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Aug 6, 2017 15:38
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| # ? May 9, 2024 22:10 |
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It may not be recognizable because DoubleNegative did the VGA remake of KQ1, but we're back at this screen. 
whitehelm fucked around with this message at 16:03 on Aug 6, 2017 |
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Aug 6, 2017 15:59
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