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How do we define blaspheming the Holy Spirit? I think my Baptist roots defined it as any non-Baptist.
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Aug 5, 2017 03:59
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All sins are unforgivable, according to the nature of the Law. Grace works paradoxically - sin remains unforgivable, but is forgiven even as such.
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Aug 5, 2017 04:16
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WerrWaaa posted:How do we define blaspheming the Holy Spirit? I think my Baptist roots defined it as any non-Baptist. I've prayed on this question a lot. As far as I can recognize, blaspheming the spirit of holiness is to reject, in active thought and deed, the possibility of a holy spirit existing in the world or existing in people. I see it as a counter-Nietzchean, passive nihilism that behaves as if nothing can be beautiful, nothing can be ultimately meaningful. It can be selfish or obsessed with meaninglessness. It must be incompatible with respect for a (or, the) spirit of holiness.
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Aug 5, 2017 06:55
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What if we believe things to be objectively meaningless but belief that beauty or goodness can exist through an individual/societal lens?
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Aug 5, 2017 08:04
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WerrWaaa posted:How do we define blaspheming the Holy Spirit? I think my Baptist roots defined it as any non-Baptist. The problem with having no Baptist pope is there's no one to yell at whoever taught you that. At its most basic I think blaspheming the Holy Spirit means putting the works of Man above the works of God, usually by saying, "God can't forgive what I've done."
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Aug 5, 2017 08:05
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Mystic Mongol posted:The problem with having no Baptist pope is there's no one to yell at whoever taught you that. As a wise pastor told our group of youngsters long ago: "If you're worried about that, it means the Holy Spirit is doing His work and that means you can stop burdening yourself with that particular worry."
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Aug 5, 2017 09:36
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Josef bugman posted:What if we believe things to be objectively meaningless but belief that beauty or goodness can exist through an individual/societal lens? I wonder what it means to you to believe in objective meaninglessness. Individuals (which are, to me, both more important and more interesting that societies) and their minds (or, put differently, their souls) are no less a part of the universe than the trees and the stars. A mind exists nonphysically, but is exists. And it is not a separate part of everything that exists. Your brain matter is generating a new phenomenon, but it's not a separate phenomenon that I'd be quick to separate as subjective versus objective. To paraphrase what someone else said, "The human mind is a part of the universe observing itself." More than that, what I find awesomely special is that the human mind is a part of the universe that feels like it's making choices about itself. In terms of objectivity, it's true that no one has found a rock of ultimate meaning that answers all questions about the choices we should make. Nor do most people see a dove with supernatural powers, or an outwardly magical Palestinian man that looks completely familiar and yet like no picture you've seen. As far as I can tell, though, there is no way to conclude without making a value judgment that the mind and its perceived ability to consider and make choices are mistakes of the universe. In your inquiries in this thread, I have never detected a blasphemy. You've asked questions and pressed for meaningful answers, which I regard as a part of the universe that wants to know the truth about itself. For me to really find something as a blasphemy against the (or a) spirit of holiness would have to entail a serious, deliberate, and knowing rejection of the value of any morals at any level. It would be as if the individual denies in thought and action that existence is any better than nothingness or total misery, or that easing suffering is any different than inflicting suffering. It's different from coming to the conclusion that physically, you won't find a measurable property that will really capture the difference between murder and healing. But to blaspheme against the holy spirit is to behave as if there was a real thing as choice, and it makes no difference if one chooses to create death camps or one chooses to say they've been to the mountaintop and seen the other side. To be honest, I'm not entirely sure if I would ever meet anyone who I'd seriously consider as a blasphemer of the spirit of holiness. It's beyond ignorance, which the man people call Son of God (and God Itself, if you ask a Trinitarian) said is forgivable. It's willful denial, the kind of thing that a demon like Satan is capable of achieving in a sacred, monotheistic story. What I know is that in the last couple of years, I've endeavored each day to improve upon what holy thing I, as a human and a mortal, can really accomplish: making decisions based on the merits of love. I don't always succeed in my plans. But the goal, or what I see as my function as part of the universe that can decide things, is always measured against love. Caufman fucked around with this message at 10:52 on Aug 5, 2017 |
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Aug 5, 2017 10:48
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Valiantman posted:As a wise pastor told our group of youngsters long ago: "If you're worried about that, it means the Holy Spirit is doing His work and that means you can stop burdening yourself with that particular worry." I prefer one of Twerskis: "A rabbi came upon a concerned group of students. He asked them what the hubbub was about, and they answered 'Rabbi, we are concerned we are being pursued by the Evil Urge.' 'Fear not', the rabbi answered, 'you are not yet high enough to be pursued by it. For the time being, it is still you chasing it." E: and unintentional  entendre, it has it all 
Tias fucked around with this message at 13:55 on Aug 5, 2017 |
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Aug 5, 2017 13:48
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Double, and completely OT post: We just held the most bitchin' Moon blót! Our regular gydje, or priestess, was ill with the flu, so the unhinged wife of our circle accountant stepped in. She had us sacrifice around a huge-rear end fire instead of statues of the gods as are customary, and because of other sick leaves I was given the job of representing the direction of south and the element of earth, while she told an allegedly ancient story of how the sun and the moon were chained to the sky and forced by wolves to travel it, then afterwards she told the same story from another perspective, giving her opinion on what the christian retelling said, and what a proper heathen perspective was. We nearly drowned in a monsoon and I got more than a little dizzy from wood fumes, which just added to the overall experience. People shared some really nice and heartfelt things in the four prayer circles, and then we got crunk and grilled sausages. 10/10 would worship moon again!
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Aug 5, 2017 23:23
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The other unforgivable sin is being an out-of-season fig tree.
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Aug 6, 2017 00:24
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docbeard posted:The other unforgivable sin is being an out-of-season fig tree. Let's be fair, that tree absolutely wasn't seeking salvation.
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Aug 6, 2017 00:47
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new religions https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2017/08/new-religions/533745/
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Aug 6, 2017 16:46
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Tias posted:Double, and completely OT post: Interesting, any reason why you guys pick South for representing Earth? I thought usually it's East=Air, South=Fire, West=Water, North=Earth? HEY GAIL posted:new religions Well, Santa Muerte is kinda dope, but I guess she's way too metal to become the main goddess of a mainstream religion. She will def. have a place in a weird new cyber-aztec-Catholic space pantheon - every respectable pantheon needs a god(dess) of death!  SavageGentleman fucked around with this message at 17:33 on Aug 6, 2017 |
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Aug 6, 2017 17:21
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Could I ask you guys to pray for me? It's been several weeks since I decided I wanted to start going to church and possibly even get baptized and convert, but my anxiety keeps acting up and preventing me from actually going.
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Aug 6, 2017 18:39
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Lord Jesus Christ, Son of the Father, have mercy on your suffering servant.
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Aug 6, 2017 19:21
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You're in my prayers. And wherever you are, when you acknowledge honestly your anxieties, you are looked on by the Lord. Also consider that, for all their theological authority on Earth, a church can only baptize you in water. It's Christ Jesus who immerses us in the spirit of holiness, and he dwells in no temple except the human heart.
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Aug 6, 2017 19:26
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You'll be in my prayers. I was in the same situation for years, and it was in prayer that God finally showed me the way through that fear. He hears you, he understands, and he wants you to be with him 
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Aug 6, 2017 19:53
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Rainbow Pharaoh posted:Could I ask you guys to pray for me? It's been several weeks since I decided I wanted to start going to church and possibly even get baptized and convert, but my anxiety keeps acting up and preventing me from actually going. Of course! Do you have a friend who attends church (any church, doesn't have to be the denomination you're interested in) who might go with you or bring you to their church as a guest?
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Aug 6, 2017 21:59
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and remember, if you never manage to go to church because of your condition, there are saints who were in your situation. There is no barrier to being with God in spirit.
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Aug 6, 2017 22:12
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Aug 7, 2017 00:03
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Pellisworth posted:Of course! Do you have a friend who attends church (any church, doesn't have to be the denomination you're interested in) who might go with you or bring you to their church as a guest? Unfortunately not, I don't really have many friends and none of them are religious. HEY GAIL posted:and remember, if you never manage to go to church because of your condition, there are saints who were in your situation. There is no barrier to being with God in spirit. Do you know of any such saints off the top of your head? I'd be interested in reading about them.
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Aug 7, 2017 01:19
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If reading the Talmud has taught me anything, it's that "Talmudic lawyering" and the loopholes in the Kingdom are proof that the divinity has a sense of humor; there's no better hope for salvation than that.
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Aug 7, 2017 02:36
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My mother accompanied me to mass this evening. Thirteen Orphans: We need to sit in the back. Mom: Why? Thirteen Orphans: I'm not receiving today so it's a hassle to sit up front. Mom: Why aren't you receiving? Thirteen Orphans: ...You're not Catholic but you're still not supposed to ask...
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Aug 7, 2017 03:11
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A virgin scholastic sits in the back to avoid hassling. A chad mystic goes up to the priest and gives him communion. edit: Question, though. What does Kuple e-Half Life Symbol-enoov mean? Caufman fucked around with this message at 03:18 on Aug 7, 2017 |
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Aug 7, 2017 03:14
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"Mercy, Lord." Which is really both an answer to your question and my general response to the image. Numerical Anxiety fucked around with this message at 03:27 on Aug 7, 2017 |
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Aug 7, 2017 03:24
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I'm the latent anti-Semitism
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Aug 7, 2017 03:34
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Numerical Anxiety posted:"Mercy, Lord." See, that's much harder to recognize than Misericordia, Dominus. S...submit to Rome, y'all.
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Aug 7, 2017 04:11
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SavageGentleman posted:Interesting, any reason why you guys pick South for representing Earth? I thought usually it's East=Air, South=Fire, West=Water, North=Earth? I checked my diary and I was in fact north! I can't always determine direction without a compass, so I just asked.
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Aug 7, 2017 10:09
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StashAugustine posted:I'm the latent anti-Semitism Rainbow Pharaoh posted:Do you know of any such saints off the top of your head? I'd be interested in reading about them. Schemanun Macaria was unusually small and her body was twisted--nobody knew what was wrong because it was, you know, early 20th century Russia--but she still became a nun, just in her house instead of a monastery.
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Aug 7, 2017 11:33
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Caufman posted:See, that's much harder to recognize than Misericordia, Dominus. It's just "kyrie eleison" in its native script.
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Aug 7, 2017 14:58
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It would behoove me to learn the Greek script, but I'm still going to whine about it.
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Aug 7, 2017 18:25
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Caufman posted:It would behoove me to learn the Greek script, but I'm still going to whine about it.
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Aug 7, 2017 18:28
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So, ugh, where does the stereotype about Catholic/Irish guilt comes from? I mean, we do say mea culpas at church, but should we all be suffering from guilt all the time?
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Aug 7, 2017 19:41
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JcDent posted:So, ugh, where does the stereotype about Catholic/Irish guilt comes from? I mean, we do say mea culpas at church, but should we all be suffering from guilt all the time? It's the legacy of Augustine's theology regarding original sin and our fallen state. And yes, you probably should feel guilty all the time, but then you should also have guilt about the self-indulgence that guilt is.
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Aug 7, 2017 20:08
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Numerical Anxiety posted:It's the legacy of Augustine's theology regarding original sin and our fallen state. And yes, you probably should feel guilty all the time, but then you should also have guilt about the self-indulgence that guilt is. And about the pride that inevitably raises it's head when you notice you actually feel guilty about all of that, compared to all those people who do not.
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Aug 7, 2017 20:52
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as for the irish part, it's because penitential manuals originated in ireland and for that reason irish catholicism was famous mostly for being extremely severe. being occupied by the british for several centuries didn't help
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Aug 7, 2017 22:00
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Bel_Canto posted:as for the irish part, it's because penitential manuals originated in ireland and for that reason irish catholicism was famous mostly for being extremely severe. being occupied by the british for several centuries didn't help
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Aug 7, 2017 22:26
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Numerical Anxiety posted:It's the legacy of Augustine's theology regarding original sin and our fallen state. And yes, you probably should feel guilty all the time, but then you should also have guilt about the self-indulgence that guilt is. Wow, I never thought a godless universe could be made to sound so appealing by just 2 sentences. In all seriousness, that sounds really loving dour. On a scale that I understand but don't get why people who believe in an afterlife and a divine loving God ever would.
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Aug 7, 2017 22:31
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Josef bugman posted:In all seriousness, that sounds really loving dour.
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Aug 7, 2017 22:35
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Josef bugman posted:Wow, I never thought a godless universe could be made to sound so appealing by just 2 sentences. You're only getting half of it. The flip side of the coin, which like any mise-en-abyme, never stops turning, is quite humorous. And that's the part that makes it not only livable, but even liberating.
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Aug 7, 2017 22:51
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