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My husband has been offered two jobs today (here in NYC): edit: gone! hot sorcery fucked around with this message at 16:09 on Sep 25, 2017 |
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Jul 31, 2017 22:03
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Does B involve driving out of NYC? He should certainly take that into account - commuting is gonna be hell compared to a train. For me the "sanity cost" would be huge for such an arrangement. I'd be a little reticent about asking about overtime - I don't know what he does but most jobs that pay 75k are not going to pay overtime and you'll get funny looks if you ask about it. It's interesting that they mentioned it but that may just mean he types "40 hours" into a webform somewhere each week regardless of how much he actually works. If I'm horribly misinformed here and someone else knows better, please chime in because I only have my experiences/workplaces to go on there. Depending on what negotiation has already been done, I would be bolder with company B, presuming that, with the current offers, he'd rather take A. 80k is a pretty meager ask, I might ask for 90k or higher if there hasn't already been negotiation to reach 75k. Rather than trying to strategically think about using B as a stepping-stone, I'd have him introspect and think about how much money it would truly take for him to prefer B compared to A's current offer, and ask for that, or even a little more than that. He'll be able to speak more naturally and express himself better if the reasons he's giving are his true reasons. He can worry about further negotiation with A after that.
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Jul 31, 2017 22:14
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Jeffrey of YOSPOS posted:Does B involve driving out of NYC? He should certainly take that into account - commuting is gonna be hell compared to a train. For me the "sanity cost" would be huge for such an arrangement. edit: gone! hot sorcery fucked around with this message at 16:10 on Sep 25, 2017 |
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Jul 31, 2017 22:24
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If you've already negotiated up to 75 on company A it would be a little weird to me if I met the candidate's ask and then they came back again and were like actually i want 80/90/105 whatever.
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Aug 1, 2017 08:51
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:If you've already negotiated up to 75 on company A it would be a little weird to me if I met the candidate's ask and then they came back again and were like actually i want 80/90/105 whatever.
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Aug 1, 2017 17:16
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I agree with both previous posters that you should negotiate in good faith and not move the* goalposts after they match your ask, but in my opinion if he negotiated with the understanding he'd get 1.5x for OT and now he's getting 0x it's legitimate to revisit base salary.
antiga fucked around with this message at 19:55 on Aug 1, 2017 |
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Aug 1, 2017 18:24
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I don't agree with the above posters. Negotiation isn't a single step process and if you've been open about interviewing at multiple companies then it shouldn't be a surprise that you received a higher offer from another company and want them to match or exceed it.
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Aug 1, 2017 19:02
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antiga posted:I agree with both previous posters that you should negotiate in good faith and not move her goalposts after they match your ask, but in my opinion if he negotiated with the understanding he'd get 1.5x for OT and now he's getting 0x it's legitimate to revisit base salary. Yeah I think this is what would open negotiations back up, even if it's not likely he'd ever receive the OT $ anyway.
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Aug 1, 2017 19:10
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antiga posted:I agree with both previous posters that you should negotiate in good faith and not move her goalposts after they match your ask, but in my opinion if he negotiated with the understanding he'd get 1.5x for OT and now he's getting 0x it's legitimate to revisit base salary. I think that's fair.
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Aug 1, 2017 19:43
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I might be running up against a negotiation situation that is completely uncharted territory for me... I am likely going to be offered an IT director position at a firm run by some former colleagues of mine (they are in non-IT C-level positions). I really enjoy them and have gotten to know some other folks at this company and really like it. It's located many states away so I really want to make sure, as best as possible, that I'm in position to be successful before making a huge move. Through talks with my colleagues I am comfortable with the likely compensation/benefits/etc. The only issue I see is the staffing below this position. A major part of this position would be managing a large project that will require a lot of elbow to elbow work with the customers over the next few years. I would inherit one FTE who has had some sort of personal issues that now limit them to working remotely. From my past experience I can safely say that having only one onsite resource will be a disaster for a project this size. There needs to be at least one other onsite FTE to make this thing work. I've broached the subject a few times and the response seems to be a "yeah, we are planning on building a larger team over time." It's a tepid enough response it's really scaring me. Does anyone have any advice for this situation? What kind of assurance for adding another FTE is reasonable (assuming they will have to go through all the budget/HR/etc. perils normally associated with getting an entirely new position approved)? Thanks, thread! Fireside Nut fucked around with this message at 02:28 on Aug 2, 2017 |
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Aug 2, 2017 02:26
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Fireside Nut posted:I've broached the subject a few times and the response seems to be a "yeah, we are planning on building a larger team over time." It's a tepid enough response it's really scaring me. Does anyone have any advice for this situation? What kind of assurance for adding another FTE is reasonable (assuming they will have to go through all the budget/HR/etc. perils normally associated with getting an entirely new position approved)? The correct question for a director level position is "what is my budget for hiring my team and will there be any interference/requirements from outside of my organization on hires?" If the answer isn't something like "you have x head count reqs open, y dollars to spend on them and you hire whoever you feel is best" you aren't actually being offered a director position, just the title and you are their new IC bitch that also need to deal with the guy nobody else likes to talk to but knows too much to fire.
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Aug 2, 2017 02:31
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Motronic posted:The correct question for a director level position is "what is my budget for hiring my team and will there be any interference/requirements from outside of my organization on hires?" Listen to this guy right here.
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Aug 2, 2017 03:02
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Fireside Nut posted:I've broached the subject a few times and the response seems to be a "yeah, we are planning on building a larger team over time." It's a tepid enough response it's really scaring me. This is the kind of handwavy response that is an instant red flag: There's no specificity of how many people, budget, or timeline. It's especially a red flag because: Motronic posted:The correct question for a director level position is "what is my budget for hiring my team and will there be any interference/requirements from outside of my organization on hires?"
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Aug 2, 2017 14:36
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Motronic posted:The correct question for a director level position is "what is my budget for hiring my team and will there be any interference/requirements from outside of my organization on hires?"
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Aug 2, 2017 15:13
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antiga posted:I agree with both previous posters that you should negotiate in good faith and not move the* goalposts after they match your ask, but in my opinion if he negotiated with the understanding he'd get 1.5x for OT and now he's getting 0x it's legitimate to revisit base salary. They're putting the 1.5x OT into his contract! Which is a success, I think  Thank you all for your thoughts!
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Aug 2, 2017 19:29
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Just had a pretty killer interview for a new job. Wooo. I am writing a thank you email now along with references and a writing sample they requested. Now my lease is up in 3 weeks and without a job I am moving out. Do I mention this in the follow up email? Like hey not to rush you guys or anything but I might be leaving the state without a work commitment at the end of the month.
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Aug 4, 2017 23:44
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Goodpancakes posted:Just had a pretty killer interview for a new job. Wooo. I am writing a thank you email now along with references and a writing sample they requested. That can give them a lot of leverage to tell them you have to leave the state. You can communicate the timeline but be careful about why.
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Aug 5, 2017 16:31
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Kalenn Istarion posted:That can give them a lot of leverage to tell them you have to leave the state. You can communicate the timeline but be careful about why. Sound advice. I'd probably follow up with saying you really liked the interview and look forward to hearing from them again soon. You could ask for a timeline straight away, but general consensus seems to be that you don't ask before at least a week has passed. You could follow up in 1 week saying you would love to work for them but you would like to know when to expect a reaction before pursuing other options. With your timelines you'd be better off if you asked it during the interview, but that doesn't help you now.
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Aug 5, 2017 22:38
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I would appreciate feedback. Current situation: Been with my company for 2.5 years. It's a global company. I was hired as a senior tech, after about a year promoted to engineer II. Now, a little over a year since then, I have the opportunity to take a supervisor position. Prior to this position, my salary has increased by over 30% since I started 2.5 years ago. The supervisor position would increase it from where it's currently at by another 10% or so. Problem is, I'm not sure I want to do it. In my current role, I am the only engineer at my site who performs the type of work I do. I've performed extremely well in my role, therefore I'm likely to make senior engineer by 2017 review time (≥10% salary increase). I have had meetings with my boss's boss to ensure I'm happy and not a 'flight risk' so I believe it is very likely. Beside the above, I really enjoy the work I do. I support the 2 groups that the aforementioned supervisor role supervises. In other words, the supervisor directs the labor/work load, identifies improvements or problems, and it's my job to create and implement or fix them. At the end of the day, I want to be paid the most now and have the best future job security. I'm not super concerned with whether I get the 10% bump right now or in about 6 months at review. Though, if I did get the 10% bump now, I'd also get the 3% or whatever at review time. My question isn't whether I should apply for the position or not. I already have, though I am not sure I truly want it. This is where the negotiation comes in. I'll have to interview with my boss (who pleaded with me to apply) and a couple others, and then negotiate an offer. I want to run the following by you all for feedback before I try it (or you convince me to do something else!). I want to propose negotiating a higher title in addition to the pay raise. The next level above supervisor is senior supervisor; but there are also some employees throughout the company who are senior engineers but they have direct reports. I would be fine with either title, now or in 6 months. My position is that since I am pushing for the senior engineer position in 6 months anyway, I get the title (or senior supervisor) now. From my perspective, I'm getting something a little early. From the company's perspective, they're getting someone they want in a needed role. I believe I should get this request met because the supervisor position desperately needs to be filled - it's been open for over 3 months and everyone is sick of interviewing people. The caveat is that my position will be vacant. I don't know how they will fill it and what I'll be expected to do in the meantime; but continue doing at least some of my current duties until my role can be back-filled. Any feedback? I will have to take action early week. johnny sack fucked around with this message at 04:24 on Aug 6, 2017 |
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Aug 6, 2017 03:40
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johnny sack posted:I would appreciate feedback. Can you go from supervisor to senior engineer directly?
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Aug 6, 2017 13:54
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I have supervised for about 1.5 years at a different company. Similar number of reports. If I go the supervisor route, I believe it would be increasingly harder to get back into engineering the longer I'm out of it. In short, I don't know.
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Aug 6, 2017 14:13
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johnny sack posted:I have supervised for about 1.5 years at a different company. Similar number of reports. Sounds more like a career path decision than a negotiation. Have you talked to your manager about the best path to become senior engineer? If that's your end goal, and your management is reasonable, then you should start from there and work backwards. Edit: Also, if it is going to take them 4+ months to fill the position, and you only want to be in it for 6 months, the higher-ups are probably going to be a bit miffed.
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Aug 6, 2017 14:33
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I got emailed some additional questions from a perspective employer. Included was annual salary expectations. I plan to deflect, probably saying something about not knowing all of the benefits offered? Some advice here: I likely won't be offered as much money as I make now as I am possibly changing career paths a bit. Do I mention my pay rate if asked because it is so high? Does that prevent them from offering me a role if that is the case?
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Aug 7, 2017 20:24
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I usually put in "negotiable" and then if asked in person, say "let's decide to get married before we pick out the rings." It worked once.
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Aug 7, 2017 21:18
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Could really use some advice when trying to shift fields and roles while taking a significant pay cut. Current employer: ~$163k total comp, getting promoted in 2 months for +$20k to $183k New job offer: entirely different field that I want to move into. Still working out details, but probably ~$60k, maybe $70k total compensation tops. It’s hourly (with overtime), profit sharing, some 401k match, not sure what else. It’s an associate manager role and the director said that I’d be “close” to a regular manager role but that they'd want to start me out as associate. How do I properly negotiate this? I was thinking: - Leverage my upcoming work promotion as a way to bump this initial offer to regular manager role and compensation bump to go along with it - If that doesn’t work, ask for compensation bump to the regular role while keeping associate title and a clear performance plan and timing to get promoted in ~6 months of high performance from associate to regular manager - If that doesn’t work, just ask for compensation bump I’m happy enough where I am and made it clear I love my current group (although not in my ideal industry) and wouldn’t mind staying that badly, but do really want to shift to this industry. So I think I have some solid BATNA, but it’s difficult for me to figure out how to properly negotiate other than just “more than what they initially offer”. Any advice here? I don't have a solid number for what I would and would not accept, since I want to move industries so long as I'm initially making a livable wage and growing from there. Blinky2099 fucked around with this message at 22:03 on Aug 7, 2017 |
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Aug 7, 2017 22:00
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Personally I wouldn't take that large a paycut but seek out jobs in which you can leverage your current skills/industry experience and learn parts of your desired industry. Might take a lot more time finding such a job, but at least you're making 100-120k more while doing so. I had a similar situation a few years back. Was an expert in my field making good money. Wanted to switch to a different field but noticed I'd have to take at least a 50% paycut which wasn't an option with a wife, kids and a mortgage. I wasn't happy with my old job (well basically my manager) so I  and started working for a consultancy firm. After a year I landed a gig in my desired field but specifically for my old skillset. So now I'm learning my desired skills while getting paid for my experience in my old field. And I'm likely getting a job offer to join my current client permanently in a month. Worked out great for me, but not sure if I'm the luckiest sob alive or if this isn't uncommon.
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Aug 7, 2017 22:25
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Thanks thread. I was able to add a cool 5k to the base salary at my new job with about 90 seconds of talking and then waiting a day. It seemed so effortless.
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Aug 10, 2017 03:04
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Flaming June posted:Thanks thread. I was able to add a cool 5k to the base salary at my new job with about 90 seconds of talking and then waiting a day. It seemed so effortless.
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Aug 10, 2017 03:19
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So I'm thinking about taking this new job (moving from senior engineer at a top company which I don't enjoy, to associate manager in a completely different field, non technical, non engineering, etc.). The pay will be significantly lower which I'm okay with. I'd rather not come in as associate though, and I'd rather be paid more, like everyone. The recruiter said that they "we did our best to make it hurt as little as possible" and "but still coming into an associate level role here" The way I see it, it's perfectly reasonable to negotiate once, and somewhat reasonable to try again a 2nd time, and pretty unreasonable to try for 3rd and 4th. Is that about right? Meaning I could... 1) ask for bump from associate to regular manager, sounds unlikely 2) ask for pay bump and performance plan to get promoted in 6 months or so Is this a good idea? I might be wasting 1) since it's so unlikely, but at least it would anchor the conversation for negotiation number 2) as being more reasonable. Or I could skip right to 2) and then as my second negotiation if that one fails, try for a stock bump instead of salary and a 12 month performance plan instead of 6 or whatever. LochNessMonster posted:Personally I wouldn't take that large a paycut but seek out jobs in which you can leverage your current skills/industry experience and learn parts of your desired industry. Blinky2099 fucked around with this message at 16:22 on Aug 17, 2017 |
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Aug 17, 2017 16:19
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Senior engineer is usually an individual contributor role and you have no track record in the field. Why should a company that's bringing you in as a manager start you at anything other than associate? (I'm not asking this to antagonize you or put you down. That's the question you're going to need to answer to get what you want in your negotiation.) Asking for more pay might be reasonable, depending on the details of their offer, your situation, etc. Asking for a performance plan with clearly measurable goals and having a mutual understanding that you'll be promoted if you hit them is a good idea.
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Aug 17, 2017 16:42
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Don't put too many eggs in this one job offer basket. Shop around - you can certainly do better than a 70% pay cut. Work on your story of why you're an excellent manager and keep on interviewing.
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Aug 17, 2017 16:48
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Blinky2099 posted:
I was in a really technical role too, so it's not impossible. I'll admit I might have been really lucky though. I agree with Jeffrey of YOSPOS though. Don't get hooked onto this specific role and take a 70% paycut, even if you can take a hit like that financially. There are more fish in the sea and I'm sure you'll find a company in the industry you'll like that will see the use of your existing skills without this big of a paycut.
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Aug 17, 2017 18:03
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Hi negotiation thread, what's a good format for an email response to an offer letter where I want to ask for more but also don't necessarily want to jeopardize the opportunity? Currently looking at a position I super want that's offering 15 percent more than what I currently make, but I feel like I could talk my way into a higher increase than that.
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Aug 18, 2017 00:58
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I got an offer far above what I was expecting. this is a smaller pay cut that I'm very seriously considering, especially because I love the company. Total comp will be over 100k. For better or worse, I asked if there was anything they could do on the salary side (rather than ask for a flat $10k more or whatever) to leave it open. The recruiter said it's looking unlikely but he'll know by Wednesday, and wants to talk today (Tuesday). Is this just so he can gauge my likelihood of walking without them bumping up the salary? Should I talk, or just wait to hear back Wednesday? The current offer is far enough above my expectation that I'd probably take it without any increase, so I don't want to go too hard. Blinky2099 fucked around with this message at 17:18 on Aug 22, 2017 |
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Aug 22, 2017 17:08
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I'd just talk to him and see what's going on. Don't offer anything else really, just say what they'll say about any possible salary movement.
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Aug 22, 2017 17:11
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Did that, got an additional ~$6k salary on top of an already good offer. Thanks again for the advice, LochNessMonster / No Butt Stuff / my favorite SA thread.
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Aug 23, 2017 01:00
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Blinky2099 posted:Did that, got an additional ~$6k salary on top of an already good offer. Thanks again for the advice, LochNessMonster / No Butt Stuff / my favorite SA thread. That's awesome. An extra 6k just for asking! Now that's easy money. Well done and congrats on the new job!
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Aug 23, 2017 09:18
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Read this thread for the second time in under a year and it helped me again to get more money at a new job. I just asked for £3k more than advertised and they gave it to me. How easy was that?!
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Aug 23, 2017 18:13
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Got an offer for a new job in a different city. Trying to see how much I can push it... Current job: $95k, 9% bonus potential, pretty cheap health insurance, $250k life insurance policy, three weeks of vacation, and match 3.5% of salary in 401k contributions (and a pension, with about $20k in it right now). Typical Fortune 100 environment, business casual/formal dress, etc. Job offer: 100k, 6% bonus potential, cheap but not as cheap health insurance, $50k life insurance, 401k contributions are not consistent, and unlimited vacation (including a $500 cash bonus if you take 5 days off in a row). It's also a typical software environment, with free food/booze, relaxed atmosphere, etc. I'm thinking I can ask for $110k, but don't want to spook them
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Aug 25, 2017 18:29
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I think that's a pretty modest request. Is the new city higher COL? That could be a good way to ask.
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Aug 25, 2017 18:32
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