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VitalSigns posted:Your personal opinion on whether right wing policies NAFTA are good or not is irrelevant to whether passing it hurt Democrats in the 1994 elections. Sure. But the actual goodness or badness of NAFTA is relevant to the actual goodness or badness of Democrats. "Democrats are actually bad because they worked with republicans to do a thing that is actually good but looks bad to people who don't understand trade!" is not compelling.
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Aug 7, 2017 16:17
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Al Borland Corp. posted:Yeah he's wrong. "identity politics" is generally what spoiled people shout when "why aren't all political conversations about MEeeeeeeee?" By his logic, should Democrats not be supportive of civil rights, gender rights, and the like because it's icky to white people? Assange is not arguing in good faith, but that isn't what identity politics is. Identity politics is organizing around a shared cultural, ethnic, religious, professional, or regional affiliation rather than a broad-based ideology. It seems pretty clear that both parties are really leaning hard into identity politics. Democrats have their demographic checkboxes: Single women, non-religious/cosmopolitan urbanites, african-americans, hispanics, gays, jews, and recent immigrants. There's no reason why these particular groups would have interests aligned so closely. It's just because they have a subset of interests that don't intersect and Democrats campaign on the idea that they are "out groups" that should band together. At the same time, Republicans say "You're a majority and the out groups are taking power away from you. Band together." There's very little a Wall Street CEO and an Evangelical pastor from Alabama have in common, yet there they are. Poll after poll shows that people form their political affiliations mostly by cultural/personal bonds and signaling from elites. Very few people have coherent political philosophies. Leon Trotsky 2012 fucked around with this message at 16:20 on Aug 7, 2017 |
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Aug 7, 2017 16:18
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Krispy Kareem posted:It was good for most people, but it was bad for the people who voted Trump in office. Trump voters were not any more likely to live in areas economically affected by trade or immigration.
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Aug 7, 2017 16:18
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FizFashizzle posted:But there is something to say about the Dems moving towards gender/sexual equality and away from financial/education/healthcare equality and just how far that can get you politically. But that's a difficult question to ask since obviously people deserve rights. Those issues are not mutually exclusive.
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Aug 7, 2017 16:18
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FizFashizzle posted:I think trump is doubling down as hard as he can on identiy politics/culture war to keep his gun pointed at the head of the gop politicians, but im not sure that's why he won. She also had to contend with over a decade of conservative media calling her a bitch, which doesn't help.
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Aug 7, 2017 16:18
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Koalas March posted:Today Julian drops all pretenses. Here's your daily alt-right racism update: His foundational premise isn't wrong. The GOP is grasping for white identity politics in the hopes that it can save them from the shortcomings of conservative ideology. It was almost natural, wasn't it? They've been accusing the left of engaging in racial identity politics for decades, and once the first black president is elected and RE elected, they embrace their own narrative and just go full white supremacist. Too bad the rest of his point and motivations for this tweet storm is all bullshit.
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Aug 7, 2017 16:19
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FizFashizzle posted:But there is something to say about the Dems moving towards gender/sexual equality and away from financial/education/healthcare equality and just how far that can get you politically. We saw how far it got last year. And for the past 8 years. Not far is the answer. There is no reason Democrats can't out message Trump on economic populism, unless of course they just don't want to. Edit: I am not saying that I disagree at all with the Democrats on being inclusive and championing rights for all. Dirk Pitt fucked around with this message at 16:23 on Aug 7, 2017 |
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Aug 7, 2017 16:20
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I can't believe the outpouring of support that the Google Anti-diversity screed is getting online 
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Aug 7, 2017 16:21
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pillsburysoldier posted:More from people who feign anger at "identity politics" These are the same people who ran ads telling black factory workers that if they unionized the factory would shut down and they'd be back to picking cotton, right? gently caress these people. FizFashizzle posted:I think trump is doubling down as hard as he can on identiy politics/culture war to keep his gun pointed at the head of the gop politicians, but im not sure that's why he won. You should always distrust anyone who frames economic leftism as somehow mutually exclusive to minority civil rights, that one necessarily detracts from the other, or that we should advance colorblind leftism as a one size fits all solution.
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Aug 7, 2017 16:21
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Chilichimp posted:His foundational premise isn't wrong. The GOP is grasping for white identity politics in the hopes that it can save them from the shortcomings of conservative ideology. It was almost natural, wasn't it? They've been accusing the left of engaging in racial identity politics for decades, and once the first black president is elected and RE elected, they embrace their own narrative and just go full white supremacist. Conservative media conspiracies about, like, George Soros and globalists and poo poo also entices anti-semites too. Going from one to the other is a really easy transition.
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Aug 7, 2017 16:21
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DreamShipWrecked posted:I can't believe the outpouring of support that the Google Anti-diversity screed is getting online What? Where? Links and quotes please.
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Aug 7, 2017 16:23
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DreamShipWrecked posted:I can't believe the outpouring of support that the Google Anti-diversity screed is getting online A lot of angry white dudes with nothing else in there life see it as their only source of a sense of self.
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Aug 7, 2017 16:24
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DreamShipWrecked posted:I can't believe the outpouring of support that the Google Anti-diversity screed is getting online I'm not at all surprised to be honest. It seems like a natural boiling over event as techbros seethe about sexual harassment rules, immigration, and whatever else makes neckbeards mad. They think you're taking a mile when they're barely giving an inch. Equality feels like oppression to the privileged.
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Aug 7, 2017 16:24
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Dirk Pitt posted:There is no reason Democrats can't out message Trump on economic populism, unless of course they just don't want to. nonsense, the democratic party figureheads in power have nothing but everyone's collective individual best interests in mind
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Aug 7, 2017 16:24
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:I have an old Simmons BeautyRest pillow that is 80 Feather and 20 down (or maybe the opposite) that I have been using for like 7 years. It is amazing (feels kind of like dough, you kind of melt into it. You have to use a smaller pillow underneath of it, though). California Down Company, touch of down pillow.
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Aug 7, 2017 16:25
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Koalas March posted:What? Where? Links and quotes please. http://money.cnn.com/2017/08/06/technology/culture/google-diversity/index.html A software engineer wrote a 10 page letter about how diversity programs were hurting Google and emailed it to the "Company - All" list serve. Google disavowed him and now there are people railing against Google for disavowing him and "silencing" their employees.
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Aug 7, 2017 16:25
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Koalas March posted:What? Where? Links and quotes please. Go to Gizmodo. The entire thing is there.
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Aug 7, 2017 16:26
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Chilichimp posted:His foundational premise isn't wrong. The GOP is grasping for white identity politics in the hopes that it can save them from the shortcomings of conservative ideology. It was almost natural, wasn't it? They've been accusing the left of engaging in racial identity politics for decades, and once the first black president is elected and RE elected, they embrace their own narrative and just go full white supremacist. Didn't one of the bullet points from the 2012 election post-mortem by Reince Preibus say that in addition to "expanding" (whatever that would consist of) the GOP tent, that in the short-term they would need to focus on increasing their share of the white vote? Maybe it wasn't in Preibus' 2012 post-mortem, but it was some paper put out by the GOP that stated pretty plainly that they needed to drive more white voters to polls--and you can guess what kind of rhetoric and issues those would...
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Aug 7, 2017 16:26
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:http://money.cnn.com/2017/08/06/technology/culture/google-diversity/index.html Man the evil megacorp did a sinister job silencing this guy! http://money.cnn.com/2017/08/06/technology/culture/google-diversity/index.html http://money.cnn.com/2017/08/06/technology/culture/google-diversity/index.html http://money.cnn.com/2017/08/06/technology/culture/google-diversity/index.html
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Aug 7, 2017 16:27
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Koalas March posted:What? Where? Links and quotes please. It's mostly on Twitter and mostly boring appeal to authority (engineer at Google means smart in all ways right) mixed in with "just asking questions"
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Aug 7, 2017 16:28
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pillsburysoldier posted:She also had to contend with over a decade of conservative media calling her a bitch, which doesn't help. oh lord far longer than that. I remember being 5 years old in 1990 and seeing attack ads against hillary clinton. TheScott2K posted:Those issues are not mutually exclusive. Lightning Knight posted:
Sure, but in the case of the democrats I will absolutely say that their form of minority civil rights has come with pointless incrementalism everywhere else. I know "economic anxiety" is a joke expression but there were chickens that needed to come home to roost. Time will tell if the world dodged a bullet or got hosed with trump being the beneficiary.
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Aug 7, 2017 16:28
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Good to see Ben Garrison covering all bases of hatred on his cartoons https://twitter.com/tomgara/status/893541404370018304
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Aug 7, 2017 16:29
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dinoputz posted:Didn't one of the bullet points from the 2012 election post-mortem by Reince Preibus say that in addition to "expanding" (whatever that would consist of) the GOP tent, that in the short-term they would need to focus on increasing their share of the white vote? Maybe it wasn't in Preibus' 2012 post-mortem, but it was some paper put out by the GOP that stated pretty plainly that they needed to drive more white voters to polls--and you can guess what kind of rhetoric and issues those would... If you are thinking about the 2012 post-mortum, It was actually the opposite. The 2012 document said that they needed to get more hispanics on their side because the white vote was near the cap. It suggested trying to get around 40% of the hispanic vote and keep enthusiasm/turnout among traditional white voters high by focusing less on immigration and more on cultural and financial issues (religious freedom, guns, urban elitism, taxes, wasteful spending, welfare, etc) instead of anti-hispanic and spanish language issues. Appearing less racist would also help them with white suburban voters.
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Aug 7, 2017 16:32
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Koalas March posted:What? Where? Links and quotes please. A whiner posted:The diversity work, he said, "alienates non-progressives." Gender pay gap is a myth, men more competitive than frail girls etc. e- I guess imagine a men's rights complaint stretched out to 8 pages. KickerOfMice fucked around with this message at 16:38 on Aug 7, 2017 |
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Aug 7, 2017 16:33
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VitalSigns posted:You claimed NAFTA had zero effect; it's not true and it complicates your narrative that the 1994 midterms were a "rejection of taxes and civil rights and healthcare". You keep saying "well, Democrats didn't do enough / weren't liberal enough / weren't competent enough" and yet nine million more people came out in 1994 to vote for Republicans while Democrats lost less than a million. Did those nine million vote for Republicans because they wanted better health care and the Republicans insisted they'd bring UHC? Did they vote for Republicans who were going to stand for civil rights? Did they vote for Republicans who were going to make taxes more progressive and increase social spending? You say I have "no evidence" but the paper you yourself cite says that Congresspeople who voted for the 1993 budget took a bigger hit than anyone who voted for NAFTA. And yet you're trying to claim that same paper proves that NAFTA was the death sentence for Democrats and that abandoning the left is why they can't win.
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Aug 7, 2017 16:36
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Mr Ice Cream Glove posted:Thread needs more Billie I just want to point out that there is usually something wrong with someone who serves two (relatively short) stints in the military a decade apart. It can be for a variety of reasons, but they're never good. (Especially when 9/11 is a prominent reason for their decision to rejoin and they try to paint themselves as the warrior leader because of it.) Edit: Also "...in many areas that that politicians have no idea." grinds my gears more than it should. AlternateNu fucked around with this message at 16:41 on Aug 7, 2017 |
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Aug 7, 2017 16:37
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Endorph posted:i mean complaining about ID politics is dumb and terrible but also he's not entirely wrong, democrats were crowing about The Demographics about a half century before that would actually make rural white racists an insignificant voting bloc in the past 7 elections the republicans have won the popular vote once.
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Aug 7, 2017 16:38
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FizFashizzle posted:Sure, but in the case of the democrats I will absolutely say that their form of minority civil rights has come with pointless incrementalism everywhere else. I mean economic anxiety is a joke meme because it's literally untrue. It's frankly bewildering that "was the election about racism or economics" is even a question people are asking because that's a stupid dichotomy. The election was the culmination of decades of bait and switch policies by conservatives in both parties that catered to white grievance politics and then undermined social safety nets for everyone and eroded working class wages across the board. Trump is the perfect Republican because he's the Southern Strategy embodied, right down to turning his back on his base once in office and looting for all he's worth. It's just stupid that people treat the failure of Democrats to adequetly stand up for minority rights as justification to drop them entirely as "distractions" from "serious issues" (I.e. "Issues that I care about and affect me").
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Aug 7, 2017 16:38
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KickerOfMice posted:Gender pay gap is a myth, men more competitive than frail girls etc. Somewhat related to this, I don't get the focus by some liberal groups on including conservatives in with them. I ran into this when I was trying to help organize the pointless March for Science a while back; everyone's hands were tied because we couldn't say anything too political or liberal because it would risk alienating conservatives. Who gives a poo poo? Seriously, what possible reason could you have to dump on your own supporters to get the meager support of a few? Who cares if your diversity focused culture "alienates" conservatives? If your political views are alienated by the presence of women in the workplace then you have some hosed up views.
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Aug 7, 2017 16:39
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skeleton warrior posted:You keep saying "well, Democrats didn't do enough / weren't liberal enough / weren't competent enough" and yet nine million more people came out in 1994 to vote for Republicans while Democrats lost less than a million. Did those nine million vote for Republicans because they wanted better health care and the Republicans insisted they'd bring UHC? Did they vote for Republicans who were going to stand for civil rights? Did they vote for Republicans who were going to make taxes more progressive and increase social spending? It's not 1994 anymore. 1994 was 23 years ago. Maybe the electorate has changed in 23 years.
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Aug 7, 2017 16:39
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Also there are other Google employees who agree with that poo poo screed. A screen shot of the Blind app at google has one guy saying the diversity program at Google is just a pipe line from "Gender and African studies" that will ruin the company. I'm sure that's just *~economic anxiety~*
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Aug 7, 2017 16:42
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WampaLord posted:It's not 1994 anymore. 1994 was 23 years ago. Maybe the electorate has changed in 23 years. Sure, let's take a look at the most recent time that a Democratic president had a Democratic Congress and pushed forward progressive budgets and progressive legislation, maybe they didn't get stomped on two years later by a massive Republican wave oh oh hey, not the greatest news for that
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Aug 7, 2017 16:43
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WampaLord posted:It's not 1994 anymore. 1994 was 23 years ago. Maybe the electorate has changed in 23 years. It did, because it's less white. Unfortunately baby boomers aren't dying fast enough and throwing a few last tantrums on their way out.
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Aug 7, 2017 16:44
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AlternateNu posted:I just want to point out that there is usually something wrong with someone who serves two (relatively short) stints in the military a decade apart. It can be for a variety of reasons, but they're never good. (Especially when 9/11 is a prominent reason for their decision to rejoin and they try to paint themselves as the warrior leader because of it.) What would this imply? Why is it bad to serve two relatively short stints in the military a decade apart? DreamShipWrecked posted:Somewhat related to this, I don't get the focus by some liberal groups on including conservatives in with them. I ran into this when I was trying to help organize the pointless March for Science a while back; everyone's hands were tied because we couldn't say anything too political or liberal because it would risk alienating conservatives. White, affulent liberals are, at their heart, cowardly, foolish, overly-trusting creatures. They never experienced real hardship and no nothing of standing up for what they believe in because they are mostly comfortable. They are fairweather allies who are never to be trusted as they will abandon you at the drop of a hat. Weak, pathetic, lazy: fairweather liberals are the reason centrism is a inherently horrid political philosophy made to unintentionally turbofuck minorities, but, due to their size, is also why so many on the left in this country turn to centrism. I many ways, I actually hate fairweather liberals more than the actual enemy: at least the enemy is the enemy, fairweather liberals are just weak cowards who hurt their allies! Your best bet when meeting a fairweather liberal is to overtake their organize, turn it hard left, and make it something that actually benefits REAL America!
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Aug 7, 2017 16:45
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skeleton warrior posted:Sure, let's take a look at the most recent time that a Democratic president had a Democratic Congress and pushed forward progressive budgets and progressive legislation, maybe they didn't get stomped on two years later by a massive Republican wave Might as well never pass any progressive legislation ever again, said the centrist!
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Aug 7, 2017 16:45
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Mr Ice Cream Glove posted:Thread needs more Billie Check out the shape of his district, holy moly
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Aug 7, 2017 16:45
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Before the end of the Trump administration, I really want to have "Alex Jones- White House Press Secretary"
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Aug 7, 2017 16:45
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Long article on trade after we pulled out of the TPP http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/08/07/trump-tpp-deal-withdrawal-trade-effects-215459 The other 11 nations in the agreement decided to move on without the US, and both China and the EU have swooped in to fill the void. We now have a massive trade disadvantage against the EU for agriculture exports to the Pacific. Farmers who voted for Trump did not really think he would just get rid of the TPP, assuming smart people would explain to him what was going on, and now they are screwed and left hoping he'll deliver on all those "better, beautiful deals" that he promised. Our trade representative isn't having much luck, Bannon and the morons advising him on trade thought we could just do one on one deals with everyone, but the other nations are not interested at all. They were motivated to give large concessions in a massive deal with several nations, but not so much with just the US. They have trade agreements with the entire rest of the world now, they can get food elsewhere, they don't need us. loving protectionist morons in both the left and in Trump's white house have led us to this.
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Aug 7, 2017 16:45
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Every tech company I've ever been at the White guys coast and everyone else puts in the work.
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Aug 7, 2017 16:46
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DreamShipWrecked posted:Somewhat related to this, I don't get the focus by some liberal groups on including conservatives in with them. I ran into this when I was trying to help organize the pointless March for Science a while back; everyone's hands were tied because we couldn't say anything too political or liberal because it would risk alienating conservatives. My guess is that there was a lot of polling that had "conservatives" agreeing with many "liberal" ideas regarding the environment, weed, etc., but that abortion was a nonstarter and that the conservatives say they would consider voting democrat if it wasn't for abortion.
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Aug 7, 2017 16:48
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