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MrWilderheap posted:If someone has a history of frivolous lawsuits can they be fined or something eventually? IDK poo poo about the law If they're a lawyer they can be disbarred for it, and regular citizens can be put on a kind of penalty list where they need to pay a fee to file a lawsuit (although it's not exactly a big one so it wouldn't really prevent guys like Bob from suing anyone he doesn't like, and I don't know if this is even a universal thing or if it varies by jurisdiction). The main deterrent is just the cost of hiring a lawyer to handle all those lawsuits (or the cost in time if you're representing yourself), and the potential counter-suits you might have to face from your opposition (usually along the lines of having to cover THEIR legal fees in addition to your own). I don't think there's really any system to just prevent anyone from filing lawsuits period, even if they've massively abused the right to do so.
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Aug 3, 2017 03:04
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MrWilderheap posted:If someone has a history of frivolous lawsuits can they be fined or something eventually? IDK poo poo about the law In Canada, somebody can be declared a "vexatious litigant." Dunno about America.
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Aug 3, 2017 03:10
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TheCenturion posted:In Canada, somebody can be declared a "vexatious litigant." Dunno about America. This can happen in the United States, too, but it's extremely rare. I only know it happens because a few years ago, someone wrote a newspaper article about such a person.
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Aug 3, 2017 04:39
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tsob posted:Lawyers don't help themselves in fairness, since most things are couched in really dull, dry language. Apparently deliberately, to help obfuscate what they're doing and make it easier to keep it somewhat of a skilled professional language a lot of people can't understand; though I admit that's purely on anecdotal evidence and there may be a more simple and blasé reason for it. The fact that most legal briefs are boring as hell is exactly why lawyers do things like this ACLU brief. As long as all your logic is sound, you can present it with whatever terms you want. It's a person at the other end reading this, after all, and you want them to keep reading. Supreme Court justices in particular will have a lot of fun with their opinions sometimes, since they have absolutely no one to be accountable to. Here's some good ones. TXT BOOTY7 2 47474 fucked around with this message at 05:47 on Aug 7, 2017 |
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Aug 7, 2017 05:44
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Watching the Border Patrol segment, It blows my mind that federal agencies use polygraphs for hiring and that the lack of polygraphs when hiring was the thing Oliver decided to focus on. They should do better. "Polygraphs" could be its own 20 minute segment on how they're junk science and it's terrifying that they've been so widely adopted in the US (and nowhere else).
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Aug 7, 2017 09:07
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SulphagneSocialist posted:Watching the Border Patrol segment, It blows my mind that federal agencies use polygraphs for hiring and that the lack of polygraphs when hiring was the thing Oliver decided to focus on. They should do better. "Polygraphs" could be its own 20 minute segment on how they're junk science and it's terrifying that they've been so widely adopted in the US (and nowhere else). Polygraphs are junk science, but unfortunately Americans (barring sociopaths who have no problem lying with a straight face) are a secretly guilty people, and the specter of a polygraph can dissuade or shake up people with guilty consciences. Evidently the Russian intelligence services were perplexed as to why our IC put so much stock into them, because it's just a part of Russian life to lie and obfuscate, so beating the polygraph was cake for them. Any poly tech who's honest will tell you off-the-clock that the equipment is secondary to how the people *react* to the questions and how they react when they're told that they're 'holding something back,' because that's part of the script. You're always 'not being entirely truthful' or there's an 'anomalous variance.'
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Aug 7, 2017 09:12
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Macdeo Lurjtux posted:His lawyers tried to go that route, but then he went ballistic about it and said it as all100% him and his lawyers were lying, during court. Which is not surprising considering the lawyers were about to ruin his career by going for the only explanation that could possibly salvage his case.
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Aug 7, 2017 13:14
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I thought all you had to do was focus on clenching and unclenching your anus and you can beat a polygraph. The internet said it so it must be true.
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Aug 7, 2017 13:49
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Propaganda Machine posted:I thought all you had to do was focus on clenching and unclenching your anus and you can beat a polygraph. The internet said it so it must be true. There's plenty of ways to beat them. They're about as scientific as those e-meters scientologists test you for body theatans with. That being said, they're useful to some extent because a huge majority of people think they actually work, and that's often enough to rattle the average person into being obvious when they're lying with various tells and body language, which is what the people testing with them are actually looking for.
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Aug 7, 2017 15:07
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SulphagneSocialist posted:Watching the Border Patrol segment, It blows my mind that federal agencies use polygraphs for hiring and that the lack of polygraphs when hiring was the thing Oliver decided to focus on. They should do better. "Polygraphs" could be its own 20 minute segment on how they're junk science and it's terrifying that they've been so widely adopted in the US (and nowhere else). Yeah but then you get into 'Adam Mansplains Everything' territory.
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Aug 7, 2017 15:12
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IRQ posted:That being said, they're useful to some extent because a huge majority of people think they actually work, and that's often enough to rattle the average person into being obvious when they're lying with various tells and body language, which is what the people testing with them are actually looking for. If you focus on the butt clenching, will it also help prevent giving away these real tells that they're looking for? Will the tester be able to notice and call you out on it? Propaganda Machine posted:I thought all you had to do was focus on clenching and unclenching your anus and you can beat a polygraph. The internet said it so it must be true. Penn and Teller had a Bullshit episode about it and proved it was at least possible.
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Aug 7, 2017 15:31
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Clenching your butt or whatever would in theory prevent any tells the machine could read, which are changes to your muscle tension etc, physiological changes, this is why they always need to establish a baseline by asking you your name and other things you wouldn't be lying about. Of course if you're visibly looking like you're about to drop a giant wet fart they could notice that too.
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Aug 7, 2017 15:41
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IRQ posted:Of course if you're visibly looking like you're about to drop a giant wet fart they could notice that too. Wouldn't they be equally likely to write that off as the normal nervousness associated with taking a polygraph? I'm just saying it seems like a smart strategy.
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Aug 7, 2017 15:44
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WampaLord posted:I'm just saying it seems like a smart strategy. 
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Aug 7, 2017 15:45
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You think he's clenching or releasing in that moment?
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Aug 7, 2017 15:46
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WampaLord posted:You think he's clenching or releasing in that moment? Mike lost all control of his bowels after Jack and Jill.
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Aug 7, 2017 15:51
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I'm not surprised by any of this. Much like how the wall is just a retread of the old fence idea (they built the fence, it's poo poo, it involved kinda-sorta-ceding US territory), this is another terrible idea recycled from the W administration. Ol' pres pissfuck's really determined on following the same path. The most depressing thing is the fact that the failure states of huge shipments of drugs being let through and innocent people being harassed or killed are basically what they want to happen anyways. All the wealthy conservatives know that immigrants fill an important niche, they just don't want them to feel "comfortable" living their lives like human beings, and more drugs just means more reasons to fearmonger or jack up prison numbers, and Trump probably has plenty of friends who love them some of those drugs even if he doesn't partake personally. This is just one of many situations where you can see we're speeding towards making the world a worse place, everybody knows it, a lot of people actually want it, there's nothing you can do and there's probably no good way to backtrack from it. Fun, fun, fun.
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Aug 7, 2017 16:53
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I never really pay attention to the opening credits but there are a ton of pretty funny and timely jokes in it. I only noticed it this time because it had Shkrelli in it.
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Aug 7, 2017 17:14
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coyo7e posted:I never really pay attention to the opening credits but there are a ton of pretty funny and timely jokes in it. I only noticed it this time because it had Shkrelli in it. They're always fun. The last one is always different, I have to pause everytime it pops up.
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Aug 7, 2017 18:06
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coyo7e posted:I never really pay attention to the opening credits but there are a ton of pretty funny and timely jokes in it. I only noticed it this time because it had Shkrelli in it. I think it's usually only the last one that changes? I'm sure in previous seasons some of the smaller ones changed each week, but I don't remember noticing that for quite a while.
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Aug 7, 2017 20:51
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webmeister posted:I think it's usually only the last one that changes? I'm sure in previous seasons some of the smaller ones changed each week, but I don't remember noticing that for quite a while. They overhaul the main grid each year, and the final one changes per week.
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Aug 8, 2017 00:15
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IRQ posted:Clenching your butt or whatever would in theory prevent any tells the machine could read, which are changes to your muscle tension etc, physiological changes, this is why they always need to establish a baseline by asking you your name and other things you wouldn't be lying about. The thing is that you're supposed to do it when they're establishing that baseline, so that it throws off the rest of the test. Again though, the actual science involved in the polygraph is pretty unreliable anyway and it's more the perception of the test itself that matters. There's an old story about how police once managed to get a confession out of someone by claiming they were giving them a lie detector test when in fact they just had a photocopier set up that would print the word "LIE" over and over again. If you're using it to screen applicants for a job position the same thing applies; it's not like job interviews are legally binding, so you're free to use whatever tactics you want.
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Aug 8, 2017 02:30
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The Cheshire Cat posted:The thing is that you're supposed to do it when they're establishing that baseline, so that it throws off the rest of the test.
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Aug 8, 2017 03:53
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I wish I loved anything as much as Ciscoe Morris loves everything.
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Aug 8, 2017 04:44
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Jonas Albrecht posted:I wish I loved anything as much as Ciscoe Morris loves everything.
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Aug 8, 2017 05:03
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coyo7e posted:I think its related to being a serious gardener. They can pay attention to detail and notice small changes over a length of time, instant gratification an afterthought. I'm from the Seattle area and my coworker had to show me this bit. (Usually watch on Monday.) I think we all secretly love Ciscoe. 
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Aug 8, 2017 06:40
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Propaganda Machine posted:I thought all you had to do was focus on clenching and unclenching your anus and you can beat a polygraph. The internet said it so it must be true. Doesn't work anymore. That is caught by the rectal probe.
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Aug 8, 2017 06:59
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Potato Salad posted:Doesn't work anymore. That is caught by the rectal probe. Actually, I thought I'd heard somewhere that they try to account for things like this with additional sensors in the chair. It's not beyond the realm of possibility. I suppose the ol' "pebble in a shoe" would also work to cause stress, and it would do it without forcing you to clench a whole bunch of butt muscles. I think that polygraphs can detect lies. But, they can only do it some of the time, so lies look like truth every now and then... and also, truth can look like lies, especially when considering how a question is posed. The most favorable success rate I've heard of polygraphs used as lie detectors is something like 70%. That's not good enough for me. But, then again, they do have a powerful placebo effect, and I'd be willing to bet that most people who should be smart enough to know better do truly believe that polygraphs work well as lie detectors. Maybe the only thing missing is a device, waiting to be invented, that indicates when the polygraph is wrong. How about it, science?
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Aug 8, 2017 07:04
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Jonas Albrecht posted:I wish I loved anything as much as Ciscoe Morris loves everything. He's like the Huell Howser of gardening.
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Aug 8, 2017 07:05
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The other thing about Polygraph tests is that they aren't admissible as evidence in court. So if someone confesses to something while taking a polygraph test, that can be used, but if they say they didn't do it and the Polygraph says they're lying, that means nothing as far as the court is concerned. Hence why the perception of their accuracy is more important than their actual effectiveness - you need the person taking the test to believe in it enough that they just don't even try to lie. The description of Border patrol being "long stretches of boredom with brief periods of excitement" sounds a lot like how people describe being in the military. I'm surprised they don't try to recruit more veterans into the border patrol seeing as they'd be pretty used to the working conditions.
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Aug 8, 2017 07:28
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It's also how pilots describe their jobs.
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Aug 8, 2017 08:53
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BIG HEADLINE posted:Any poly tech who's honest will tell you off-the-clock that the equipment is secondary to how the people *react* to the questions and how they react when they're told that they're 'holding something back,' because that's part of the script. You're always 'not being entirely truthful' or there's an 'anomalous variance.' The idea that you can tell if someone is lying based on their body language is also junk science though.
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Aug 8, 2017 18:51
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Also some people have mental defects which genuinely make them believe they're telling the truth, even if their last two sentences were direct contradictions. If Trump would claim to have invented the concept of humility the polygraph wouldn't move an inch. It's not that he's such a great liar. He's just dumb enough to fall for his own lies. cant cook creole bream fucked around with this message at 21:27 on Aug 8, 2017 |
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Aug 8, 2017 21:23
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cant cook creole bream posted:Also some people have mental defects which genuinely make them believe they're telling the truth, even if their last two sentences were direct contradictions. Yeah, the only thing you can actually detect is nervousness. Anyone who can lie comfortably can fool a polygraph, and if you're naturally nervous you can give a false positive. And there's no way of telling the difference, so there isn't really any way to come up with a reliable number for how effective the test is. But it all depends on the idea that there is a predictable physical reaction to lying, which isn't an idea with any scientific support, it's just something that seems true to people.
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Aug 9, 2017 00:12
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"Nazis are like cats. If they like you, it's probably because you're feeding them."
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Aug 14, 2017 05:08
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I'm Going to go hang out on 56th and see if he was lying
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Aug 14, 2017 05:27
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As soon as Jon was hinting at another person, I kept saying "Weird Al" over and over and did a full on fist pump when he was announced.
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Aug 14, 2017 05:54
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swickles posted:As soon as Jon was hinting at another person, I kept saying "Weird Al" over and over and did a full on fist pump when he was announced. Same, except I have faith in
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Aug 14, 2017 06:00
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^^^Same So do polygraphs work because people are far worse at lying when they know they're hooked up to something being referred to as a "lie detector" by the people who are closely watching them, even if the machine is an empty metal box? And although it'd be easy to "beat" one if you know this hustle and just don't act any weirder / different due to knowing you're hooked up, for all those false negatives you'd have it's still a great trick/con for getting true confessions the interrogators wouldn't have otherwise scored as long as there's anybody out there who hasn't grown wise to the routine? I've heard they were junk science but I've never thought about it that way. Was there anything else besides the junk science thing that This American Life said about them that was shocking? Did a lie detector actually shock someone out of spite? Happy Thread fucked around with this message at 09:19 on Aug 14, 2017 |
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Aug 14, 2017 08:56
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I think the world needed that Weird Al song.
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