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zoux posted:We all know how the bend-the-knee conundrum is gonna get solved. The Consort to the Queen in the North
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Aug 7, 2017 17:20
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SimonChris posted:What happened to the Dornish army anyway? Did they just despawn when the sand snakes were captured? Either wiped out during Euron's attack or sitting on their hands in Dorne because their leader is a hostage in KL.
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Aug 7, 2017 17:25
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Also people complaining about burning supplies probably don't get exactly where this battle takes place. Dany doesn't have food for the people at Casterly Rock, but that's over on the west coast. The issue isn't that she lacks food but that she has to transport it across the entire continent to get to her troops. So capping supplies south of kings landing does nothing to help the troops at the Rock. If she did cap the supplies she'd have to escort the wagons safely around kings landing which is amazingly dangerous. Best to burn them to starve out the city and have the common people turn on Cersei.
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Aug 7, 2017 17:29
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As Nero Danced posted:The Dornish were all impressed by this level of fighting skill:
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Aug 7, 2017 17:31
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I know scene framing, and the framing of that scene was not a heroic one for Dany. We start off with Jamie being gentle to his army, reassuring new recruits and brushing away a more callous avisor's suggestion of flogging them. Then we get the Lannisters bravely standing against a giant horde, even as they are cut down and dismembered while a dragon roasts them alive from the skies. Even then, Jamie doesn't bend, break, or flee. Bronn gets a dramatic last stand where he desperately winches back a Scorpion, all while the camera is literally filled with a terrifying monster face to show the stakes. Tyrion watches a horribly burned landscape sullenly as people roast alive and crumble to ash, practically pleading that his brother and friend are able to escape alive instead of doing something stupid. The response to his troubles is a Dothraki general scoffing at him about fighting poorly. Jamie charges the dragon in desperation, a literal knight on a white stallion trying to fell the best, only to be easily brushed aside. And the episode ends on him in peril. I know Game of Thrones rarely shies away from violence, but when Team Dany gets lovingly renditioned scenes of horse legs being sliced off, soldiers being reduced to charred skeletons and ash piles, and Lannisters burning alive as they flee from their burning food supplies, you have to ask what the scene's writers want you to think.
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Aug 7, 2017 17:34
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Do you remember how we were introduced to Ned Stark? Was he also a villain? I repeat: This is a society based on the realities of a medieval society which means there is no prison till end of life, it's pretty much either being let go or death sentence. I already saw someone arguing that one of the "good" slavers got killed in Dany's "purge". That might be true and tragic but these things happen all the time even today (a wrong judgement). The important point is that Dany had at least a _very_ good reason for such an extreme measure. She is certainly a flawed character ("hero") but to call her a villain is just stupid in the whole context in the show and certainly not what is happening on screen (people also argue from a position in which they have a lot more information available than her). quote:I know Game of Thrones rarely shies away from violence, but when Team Dany gets lovingly renditioned scenes of horse legs being sliced off, soldiers being reduced to charred skeletons and ash piles, and Lannisters burning alive as they flee from their burning food supplies, you have to ask what the scene's writers want you to think. That was obviously a "horrors of war" scene and done to show the danger of the dragons as weapon in action but that's why we also don't get a triumphant reaction by either Dany or Tyrion (it emphasizes once again that "Team Dany" isn't ignorant to the damage/suffering). LinkesAuge fucked around with this message at 17:42 on Aug 7, 2017 |
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Aug 7, 2017 17:36
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THE BATTLE WAS RAD
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Aug 7, 2017 17:37
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Whatever happened to that one dude who melisandre put leeches on? Like that dude who was supposed to have some sort of blood connection and then Davos freed him? Like, a couple seasons ago? Was that dude relevant to anything?
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Aug 7, 2017 17:37
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Verisimilidude posted:And it fits their current fan service narrative because it would look really cool if she had like, sweet dragon-themed armor. They're saving that for when she rides into battle against the White Walkers.
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Aug 7, 2017 17:38
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Revitalized posted:Whatever happened to that one dude who melisandre put leeches on? Like that dude who was supposed to have some sort of blood connection and then Davos freed him? Like, a couple seasons ago? You have to be kidding 
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Aug 7, 2017 17:39
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Revitalized posted:Whatever happened to that one dude who melisandre put leeches on? Like that dude who was supposed to have some sort of blood connection and then Davos freed him? Like, a couple seasons ago? He's the crew captain of Fleabottom.
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Aug 7, 2017 17:40
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Yorkshire Tea posted:Also people complaining about burning supplies probably don't get exactly where this battle takes place. Why would she need to escort the wagons safely around kings landing? Why would you even assume she needed to? Even without looking at a map or regardless if a map existed or not, she didn't need to go around kings landing in the first place to reach the supply line. The plan was to feed her hundred thousand strong dothraki horde with the food from the Reach through their alliance with the tyrells so obviously a supply line from the reach to dragonstone should've been possible in the first place.
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Aug 7, 2017 17:40
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Parker Lewis posted:That’s.. not where the heart is located in a female human. Davos said "staring at her heart", implying singular, not "hearts" which would mean something there are multiples of, so therefor butt not boobs.  And yea, taking hot ladies into caves to show them something magical is kind of Jon Snows move isn't it?
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Aug 7, 2017 17:43
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LinkesAuge posted:Do you remember how we were introduced to Ned Stark? Was he also a villain? That scene showed Ned prioritizes duty over what is the smart, or sometimes even right, thing. For example, he put all of his weight behind 0 support Stannis, instead of more popular Renly, because duty said Stannis was the rightful king. It was a hint towards his fatal flaw as a character. This scene, meanwhile, shows Dany's fatal flaw of pyromania.
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Aug 7, 2017 17:45
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kiimo posted:You have to be kidding I'll make sure to go to GameOfLaughs.net, thank you
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Aug 7, 2017 17:48
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:I really want them to go Mad Queen Dany, I think the reason this episode turns me against her so hard is seeing her basically cheat-code-delete the best, coolest army led by the best, coolest dudes. Plus I'm holding out hope that her angry, entitled hypocrite attitude is intentional and she's not supposed to be entirely heroic, It has to be intentional. She's been completely unlikeable and terrible since Season 2. Now they put her against some of the biggest fan favorites like Jaime and Bronn. Who the hell is going to root for Dany over Jaime and Bronn? She teams up with child murdering Sand Snakes. She won't listen to Jon unless he bends the knee. She ignores the White Walker threat in favor of invading a country that she knows nothing about and killing thousands to put her rear end on a throne that her evil father once sat. She feeds innocent people to her dragons. Her dragons eat kids. She locks people in a vault and makes them starve to death as punishment. She crucified people, many of which she doesn't know whether they're guilty of anything. She's always entitled and is no different than Viserys. She's already mad. She's already the villain. She just needs the queen part.
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Aug 7, 2017 17:50
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The Bee posted:That scene showed Ned prioritizes duty over what is the smart, or sometimes even right, thing. For example, he put all of his weight behind 0 support Stannis, instead of more popular Renly, because duty said Stannis was the rightful king. It was a hint towards his fatal flaw as a character. No, it showed a leader taking responsibility for his actions whether they are good or bad (and without having hindsight but Ned enforced the law). It's amazing that stuff like this has to be spelt out, why do you think Jon Snow acted at the wall like he did? You guys obsess too much with the tools that are used which really doesn't matter, it's about the choices and what motivates people that MATTERS. Edgar Allen Ho posted:Not to mention that, for better or worse, the civil war is functionally over as of S6E10. The North is all that's undecided, taken from the perspective a random westerosi Dany is taking a fragile peace and plunging a war-ravaged land back into chaos when what the remaining people need is peace and time to prepare for winter. I'm finding her really hard to sympathize with and her fetish for burninating isn't helping. Those poor Lannister mooks deserved to go home just as much as anyone else. There was no peace and there wouldn't have been with or without Dany. Did you totally forgett that Cersei just killed pretty much all the Tyrells, poisoned the Dornes and thus started a war with BOTH of them? Not to mention that there is still the North and the Vale. And how can anyone think Cersei would be a reasonable head? Cersei is exactly that what people here would see as "Dany turning super evil", power above all else.
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Aug 7, 2017 17:51
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steinrokkan posted:I'll make sure to go to GameOfLaughs.net, thank you it was easier than digging up the tweet sue me
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Aug 7, 2017 17:51
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Dany is a bad person and a terrible ruler wrapped in all of the trappings of a fantasy hero. It's a realistic subversion of the chosen one archetype and that maybe being born with a cool power shouldn't be the basis for leadership. Whether this was accidental or deliberate is yet to be seen.
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Aug 7, 2017 17:52
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The Bee posted:I know scene framing, and the framing of that scene was not a heroic one for Dany. Since the Lannisters are as close to unambiguous villains in this show as the White Walkers are, I saw that entire sequence as a combination of Lannister hubris finally coming due and the true horrors of a dragon Also Bron didn't get a dramatic last stand, he got a sequence of him running away with the same sort of "coward cam" that Paul Reiser's character gets in 'Aliens' https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sNYNssDyUQg All of that aside, I've never really been into this thread much but I'm kinda baffled by the Dany hate. Her worst crime (relative to the rest of the cast of characters--good or bad) is her sometimes still baffling naivete. Maybe it's true that for me, completely upending an entire civilization's slave trade out of what is shown to be her desire for people to be free buys her a lot of good will. "Mad Queen Dany" theories don't make a lot of thematic sense to me, although a short heel turn in order to do a head-fake towards Mad Queen does Waffles Inc. fucked around with this message at 17:56 on Aug 7, 2017 |
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Aug 7, 2017 17:53
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some guy on the bus posted:It has to be intentional. She's been completely unlikeable and terrible since Season 2. Now they put her against some of the biggest fan favorites like Jaime and Bronn. Who the hell is going to root for Dany over Jaime and Bronn? Bear in mind that we're talking about people who accidentally filmed a rape scene. There's so many levels of incompetence going on here.
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Aug 7, 2017 17:54
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SimonChris posted:What happened to the Dornish army anyway? Did they just despawn when the sand snakes were captured? Dorne was ruled by a junta that stabbed the prince and his heir. With the junta gone, there is no Dornishman willing to lead them to was and the minor houses probably hated the sand snakes anyway.
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Aug 7, 2017 18:01
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zeal posted:i dunno how to break this to you bud, but 'rapers and pillagers' describes every real-world army that's ever marched Sure, but most don't describe their messiah as a giant horse who fucks the entire world
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Aug 7, 2017 18:01
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LinkesAuge posted:Do you remember how we were introduced to Ned Stark? Was he also a villain? I repeat: This is a society based on the realities of a medieval society which means there is no prison till end of life, it's pretty much either being let go or death sentence. holy lol to all this e: She sure liberated the gently caress out of Mereen. Mission Accomplished! 
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Aug 7, 2017 18:07
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Waffles Inc. posted:All of that aside, I've never really been into this thread much but I'm kinda baffled by the Dany hate. Her worst crime (relative to the rest of the cast of characters--good or bad) is her sometimes still baffling naivete. Maybe it's true that for me, completely upending an entire civilization's slave trade out of what is shown to be her desire for people to be free buys her a lot of good will. If anything she was way too lenient at Mereen. purge the entire slaver class, either through mass executions or partial execution + mass banishment, and not only do you free up vast volumes of wealth and property to redistribute to the newly enfranchised former slaves, you leave no 'sons of the harpy' left to carry out a a half-assed urban insurgency. lenience towards the people she regards as her own class, the aristocracy, is a lot more likely to get Dany killed than any zombie giant
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Aug 7, 2017 18:07
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Mostly because my memory is poo poo, but I gotta ask, does Bronn have any real reason for sticking with the Lannisters aside from the promise of money/a castle/title/noblewoman? I know he's a mercenary and all, but it seems like he's got a bit of a bro relationship going of with Tyrion and Jaime. I know Bronn tackled Jaime out of the way of the dragon's firebreath at the end of the ep, but I'm not remembering enough about his character to read that him jumping into danger like that was strictly because 'oh poo poo, if he gets cooked, there goes all the money he owes me' or if it's more 'oh poo poo, my bro and my payday are in danger!'
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Aug 7, 2017 18:08
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LinkesAuge posted:This is a society based on the realities of a medieval society which means there is no prison till end of life, it's pretty much either being let go or death sentence. Whatever. Lets analyse this poo poo: The guy Ned executed was a proven deserter of the Night's Watch, and the law is very clear about what you do with those. It was a duty Ned performed reluctantly, but he was honour bound and at least he made a point of performing it quickly and cleanly. The guy who Dany burned had committed no crime. He had the misfortune of being a former slave master in a city where some former slave masters were causing Dany trouble. That's it. Dany didn't even care if any of those people were her guys or not, she rounded them up and then chose one of them completely at loving random to be burned alive. Your waifu is a lunatic. Sorry bud.
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Aug 7, 2017 18:14
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LadyPictureShow posted:Mostly because my memory is poo poo, but I gotta ask, does Bronn have any real reason for sticking with the Lannisters aside from the promise of money/a castle/title/noblewoman? No, just that little matter of living in wealth and privilege and a castle and prestige and bossing people around and loving women who don't roll around in filth and joining the upper class and having that pass down your your children forever.
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Aug 7, 2017 18:15
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LinkesAuge posted:No, it showed a leader taking responsibility for his actions whether they are good or bad (and without having hindsight but Ned enforced the law). It's amazing that stuff like this has to be spelt out, why do you think Jon Snow acted at the wall like he did? I meant fatal flaw pretty literally in this case. His honor and focus on what's right by the law rather than actually playing the game is what got him killed, too. He's an honorable man, and while not perfect was one of the show's most noble characters. But I don't think it's a coincidence that the means of his introduction are also the means of his exist. quote:Since the Lannisters are as close to unambiguous villains in this show as the White Walkers are, I saw that entire sequence as a combination of Lannister hubris finally coming due and the true horrors of a dragon That'd be true if thiis was Cersei's wandering band of murder-rapists, but this was two fan favorites shown empathizing with fresh-faced new recruits. This is also right after a scene trying to humanize the Lannisters, via Ed Sheeran's band. It would've been easy to make this feel more karmic. Have them actually flog the stragglers, or brag about who set more of Highgarden ablaze. I'm thinking sort of like The Mountain's camp during the Arya-Tywin episodes, where all of them were pretty horrid. And Bron had his trauma run, true, but it wasn't to escape. It was to get to the Scorpion and man it, even as the biggest drat dragon in Westeros descended. And even as he fled he still tried to fend off any Dothraki in his path, rather than turn tail and free. I don't hate Danaerys. I've actually really enjoyed seeing her rise, and feel like the Essos scenes were of great importance to the show. I'm just raising an eyebrow at how this scene was composed.
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Aug 7, 2017 18:15
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I'm in the Jaime did Nothing Wrong camp, sorry you can't make a villain out of him. He saved the world and got bullied for it. He's also going to do it again when he kills the night king with the widowmaker
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Aug 7, 2017 18:17
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tooterfish posted:The guy who Dany burned had committed no crime. He had the misfortune of being a former slave master Lol There is no such thing as a good slaver; to be more specific, there is not such thing as a slaver in fiction or real history who deserves less than excruciating and public death
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Aug 7, 2017 18:17
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Vanilla Mint Ice posted:I'm in the Jaime did Nothing Wrong camp, sorry you can't make a villain out of him. He saved the world and got bullied for it. Jamie pushed a kid out of a window and crippled him for life while balls deep in his sister. He did a lot wrong, and frankly I'm amazed the show developed him enough to make me root for him after all of it. I'm rooting so badly for Kingslayer 2.0 to end Cersei's reign of terror.
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Aug 7, 2017 18:19
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Also I think it was pretty intentional to see the men suffer
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Aug 7, 2017 18:20
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zeal posted:Lol  AMERICA HATING COMMIE SPOTTED
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Aug 7, 2017 18:20
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zeal posted:Lol There are plenty of bad people within Dany's reach that she hasn't burned alive. Jorah was also a slaver. As is her entire loving army come to think of it. The fact is, she just randomly chose to burn someone. There wasn't a reason. She's mad.
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Aug 7, 2017 18:21
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tooterfish posted:I never said he was good. I said he hadn't committed a crime. you stated his crime. he was a slaver. what's the disconnect?
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Aug 7, 2017 18:22
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The Bee posted:Jamie pushed a kid out of a window and crippled him for life while balls deep in his sister. He did a lot wrong, and frankly I'm amazed the show developed him enough to make me root for him after all of it. I'm rooting so badly for Kingslayer 2.0 to end Cersei's reign of terror. He made a lot of morally grey choices. There should've been a better method but regardless, if he hadn't silenced bran then the news of the queen sleeping with a kingsguard who is also her brother would've made robert kill cersei and completely destabilize the realm
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Aug 7, 2017 18:22
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e: lol, gently caress it.
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Aug 7, 2017 18:22
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The Bee posted:I don't hate Danaerys. I've actually really enjoyed seeing her rise, and feel like the Essos scenes were of great importance to the show. I'm just raising an eyebrow at how this scene was composed. On this we totally agree. I don't think there's enough actual real time (like, episodes) for Dany to have a full heel-turn given that there's a shitload left to wrap-up, so I can't help but wonder why we're seeing the Lannister army humanized like that. I mean, it could be just like, "look how horrible war is regardless of how horrible you are" or it could be "look how powerful dany's army is" by way of humanizing the opposing army. That, or maybe they're really gonna run with the locals resisting Dany's rule and they need to give the audience some reason why from the perspective of the Westerosi folks. I dunno what it is, but yeah I agree that it was pretty weird Vanilla Mint Ice posted:He made a lot of morally grey choices. There should've been a better method but regardless, if he hadn't silenced bran then the news of the queen sleeping with a kingsguard who is also her brother would've made robert kill cersei and completely destabilize the realm I mean I "like" Darth Vader and Magneto and Dr. Doom but it still gets weird when people post screeds about how they're secretly good. You can like Jamie and still admit that he's a bad guy. I like Jamie a lot; he's charming and is super compelling and has had a lot of growth and an interesting path as a character but "Jamie did nothing wrong" is pretty 
Waffles Inc. fucked around with this message at 18:25 on Aug 7, 2017 |
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Aug 7, 2017 18:22
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tooterfish posted:You realise that the other people in that scene were locked up right? Prison was definitely a thing in "medieval" society. Also the leaving that dude and her slave girl to starve to death in a vault was beyond cruel and something only a truly mad person would do. Yeah kill them. By slitting their throats or stabbing them or hanging them.
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Aug 7, 2017 18:23
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