|
VitalSigns posted:Also quick reminder that recent events in California proved that "oh we can't talk specifics because we're throwing the widest net possible in order to win the supermajority we'll need to pass universal health care so it would be a mistake to get anything ready before the election" is a total sham because the instant they got elected the speaker killed UHC in committee and said "oh my gosh we're just too busy to write health care bills, gosh darn I really wish we'd had something ready before the election, oh well can't do it now" 
Sneakster fucked around with this message at 05:44 on Aug 8, 2017 |
#
?
Aug 8, 2017 05:41
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 11, 2024 09:46 |
|
|
Majorian posted:It is the tweet of a confident man, who is clearly not afraid of his past catching up with him. You know this reminds me how come nobody has brought up the Cuba thing? Like, I think the Cuba embargo is manifestly stupid, but isn't that an actual crime and just nobody gave a poo poo...? Edit: for clarify, I'm referring to the info released late last year that Trump had been doing business under the table in Cuba back during the embargo period right after he had taken a hardline stance against Cuba. Lightning Knight fucked around with this message at 05:49 on Aug 8, 2017 |
|
#
?
Aug 8, 2017 05:43
|
|
|
Anti Muslim bigots protest islam by.... playing the call to prayer at fajr time... https://twitter.com/goldingbf/status/893542192098291713 Thanks for keeping muslims on a proper prayer schedule I guess?!
|
|
#
?
Aug 8, 2017 05:45
|
|
|
Sneakster posted:It starts to get tricky when those promises end up being half-assed backroom deals with people that bought them out behind the scenes before they got elected. This is further compounded when discourse is limited austerity because creating any programs would require raising taxes which we can't do until we fix ((crony)) capitalism or whatever idiotic reactionary appeal to mythical non-exploitative capitalism. Hmmmmmmm. You want to make an edit. Otherwise someone might think you're a Nazi instead of just a moron.
|
|
#
?
Aug 8, 2017 05:51
|
|
|
Sneakster posted:To be fair, I've heard at least reasonable sounding arguments about potential issues with UHC at the state level that could leave it open to sabotage that would set national UHC back for a much longer time. Incrementalists like P6TA constantly point to Canada's historical adoption of single payer beginning at the province level and only becoming a national system later. In this thread Discendo Vox quoted from the Dem's new Better Deal platform about state-level single payer being the way forward. California Dems themselves passed single payer a million times when a Republican governor was there to safely veto it. It's only when they catch that car and win supermajority control of a state government that all of a sudden they discover all these process issues and obstacles that make it just so gosh darn impossible for state-level UHC to succeed, and give Americans the runaround back to the federal level, where it also can't succeed because corporations are too powerful but that's okay because state-level UHC is the way forward etc etc. VitalSigns fucked around with this message at 06:03 on Aug 8, 2017 |
|
#
?
Aug 8, 2017 05:59
|
|
|
Al-Saqr posted:Anti Muslim bigots protest islam by.... playing the call to prayer at fajr time... That is one clever, roundabout way of converting people into Islam.
|
|
#
?
Aug 8, 2017 05:59
|
|
|
Lightning Knight posted:You know this reminds me how come nobody has brought up the Cuba thing? I feel like the Clinton campaign tried to bring that up, but it just kind of got lost in the din.
|
|
#
?
Aug 8, 2017 06:00
|
|
|
Lightning Knight posted:You know this reminds me how come nobody has brought up the Cuba thing? Jesus, I had completely loving forgotten about that poo poo. Trump's just got so goddamn much going on that last month's scandals are legend, while the campaign's are barely-recalled myth.
|
|
#
?
Aug 8, 2017 06:00
|
|
|
I mean I could kind of see an argument that they shouldn't push the Cuba issue because it legitimizes the embargo and the embargo was bad, so that's fair I guess. Also gently caress that anti-immigration plan, I hate that immigrants are just about everyone's scapegoats, even on the left in many cases.
|
|
#
?
Aug 8, 2017 06:04
|
|
|
Lightning Knight posted:I mean I could kind of see an argument that they shouldn't push the Cuba issue because it legitimizes the embargo and the embargo was bad, so that's fair I guess. Yeah, that's something that upsets me. I luckily don't see it too often, but occasionally there are self-proclaimed leftists who buy into the "TAKIN' ARR JURBS" horseshit. It's something that every other left-of-center person should agree is inexcusable.
|
|
#
?
Aug 8, 2017 06:08
|
|
|
Hieronymous Alloy posted:The main thing I drew from that is "fuuuck, anyone who can beat this score is DEFINITELY qualified to take my job" It's ok, they have a work around. Part of your score is based on your income, if you are not offered a job at 150% the average, then you don't get any points for income.
|
|
#
?
Aug 8, 2017 06:09
|
|
|
What i really don't get is why the Cuban Americans have such a vicious outlook on Cuba as a country, like, surely they must realize that liberalizing relations would open the door to them pouring money and investing in the country and opening a big fat door to them becoming really wealthy and influential instead of forcing Cuban people to suffer in this embargo just out of pure spite, like gently caress you guys lost and Castro lived a long life and died a hero respected by all just turn the fuckig page and help rebuilt that poor as gently caress island.
|
|
#
?
Aug 8, 2017 06:10
|
|
|
VitalSigns posted:Incrementalists like P6TA constantly point to Canada's historical adoption of single payer beginning at the province level and only becoming a national system later. In this thread Discendo Vox quoted from the Dem's new Better Deal platform about state-level single payer being the way forward. California Dems themselves passed single payer a million times when a Republican governor was there to safely veto it. It's only when they catch that car and win supermajority control of a state government that all of a sudden they discover all these process issues and obstacles that make it just so gosh darn impossible for state-level UHC to succeed, and give Americans the runaround back to the federal level, where it also can't succeed because corporations are too powerful but that's okay because state-level UHC is the way forward etc etc. Ignore pt6a. The canpol thread does and so should you. Would you respect a man who drives a v6 Mustang?
|
|
#
?
Aug 8, 2017 06:11
|
|
|
VitalSigns posted:Incrementalists like P6TA constantly point to Canada's historical adoption of single payer beginning at the province level and only becoming a national system later. In this thread Discendo Vox quoted from the Dem's new Better Deal platform about state-level single payer being the way forward. California Dems themselves passed single payer a million times when a Republican governor was there to safely veto it. It's only when they catch that car and win supermajority control of a state government that all of a sudden they discover all these process issues and obstacles that make it just so gosh darn impossible for state-level UHC to succeed, and give Americans the runaround back to the federal level, where it also can't succeed because corporations are too powerful but that's okay because state-level UHC is the way forward etc etc.
|
|
#
?
Aug 8, 2017 06:11
|
|
|
Al-Saqr posted:What i really don't get is why the Cuban Americans have such a vicious outlook on Cuba as a country, like, surely they must realize that liberalizing relations would open the door to them pouring money and investing in the country and opening a big fat door to them becoming really wealthy and influential instead of forcing Cuban people to suffer in this embargo just out of pure spite, like gently caress you guys lost and Castro lived a long life and died a hero respected by all just turn the fuckig page and help rebuilt that poor as gently caress island. A lot of them lost land or family in the revolution, so they're not happy with Castro and they certainly don't want him or his actions to look legitimate.
|
|
#
?
Aug 8, 2017 06:12
|
|
|
Al-Saqr posted:What i really don't get is why the Cuban Americans have such a vicious outlook on Cuba as a country, like, surely they must realize that liberalizing relations would open the door to them pouring money and investing in the country and opening a big fat door to them becoming really wealthy and influential instead of forcing Cuban people to suffer in this embargo just out of pure spite, like gently caress you guys lost and Castro lived a long life and died a hero respected by all just turn the fuckig page and help rebuilt that poor as gently caress island. It's my understanding that a lot of the people who left Cuba were ideological opponents of Castro of varying stripes, combined with Grapplejack posted:A lot of them lost land or family in the revolution, so they're not happy with Castro and they certainly don't want him or his actions to look legitimate. Kylra posted:As I understand it, the most recent California UHC plan was going to rely on things like the continued existence of medicare and medicaid to remain solvent and not implode the state's finances. And then the federal health care debacle happened. gently caress I can't find the article now but apparently one of the big problems is there's a long-standing law in California that requires x% of all revenue raised be spent on schools, and that would apply to healthcare funding, which massively bloats the cost and would be phenomenally difficult to change as law.
|
|
#
?
Aug 8, 2017 06:14
|
|
|
Al-Saqr posted:What i really don't get is why the Cuban Americans have such a vicious outlook on Cuba as a country, like, surely they must realize that liberalizing relations would open the door to them pouring money and investing in the country and opening a big fat door to them becoming really wealthy and influential instead of forcing Cuban people to suffer in this embargo just out of pure spite, like gently caress you guys lost and Castro lived a long life and died a hero respected by all just turn the fuckig page and help rebuilt that poor as gently caress island. Most of the initial emigres from Cuba were the families that were profiting from or assisting in the corruption of the Batista regime, or as previously said, they lost land, and as Kevin Spacey's Lex Luthor once said, 'it's the only thing they're not making more of.' They're upset that they were forced to 'reset' the course of their lives and aren't hideously wealthy now after three generations of exploitation. It'd be like if in Casino the Italians came in and forced all the cowboys out, and the cowboys and their descendants spent the rest of their lives shaking their fists in rage from their exiles in Colorado and California.
|
|
#
?
Aug 8, 2017 06:15
|
|
|
Kylra posted:As I understand it, the most recent California UHC plan was going to rely on things like the continued existence of medicare and medicaid to remain solvent and not implode the state's finances. And then the federal health care debacle happened. Medicare and Medicaid survived the repeal effort though. The biggest obstacle were California's dumb ballot initiatives that make it hard to increase taxes and require that half of any new taxes have to be earmarked for schools or some dumb poo poo. Neither of those things actually prevent them from writing the bill though. Pass the bill with language that says it only goes into effect if (1) a new ballot initiative passes to exempt state UHC from those dumb California tax requirements and (2) they get a waiver from the federal government to use Medicare/aid dollars for state UHC. If the opponents are right that either the initiative won't pass or Trump will say no, then there's no risk, that will happen and they can say "see state UHC just isn't feasible right now, give Democrats back the presidency and we'll pass it again." (The real risk, of course, is that these things won't happen, and state level UHC will succeed thus destroying private insurance in the state and forcing big pharma to the collective bargaining table with the most populous state in the country on the other side. Think of the corporate donations that would be lost)
|
|
#
?
Aug 8, 2017 06:19
|
|
|
That's the thing though it's been 60 loving years and Castros dead and the regime is clearly headed for capitalism and the free market it's well past the point that it makes sense anymore but the vitriol hasn't died down.
|
|
#
?
Aug 8, 2017 06:20
|
|
|
Al-Saqr posted:That's the thing though it's been 60 loving years and Castros dead and the regime is clearly headed for capitalism and the free market it's well past the point that it makes sense anymore but the vitriol hasn't died down. Yeah but lil Marco needs his chew toy.
|
|
#
?
Aug 8, 2017 06:23
|
|
|
Al-Saqr posted:What i really don't get is why the Cuban Americans have such a vicious outlook on Cuba as a country, like, surely they must realize that liberalizing relations would open the door to them pouring money and investing in the country and opening a big fat door to them becoming really wealthy and influential instead of forcing Cuban people to suffer in this embargo just out of pure spite, like gently caress you guys lost and Castro lived a long life and died a hero respected by all just turn the fuckig page and help rebuilt that poor as gently caress island. Southerners haven't gotten over the loss of their slaves and it's been 150 years. Getting rich off forced labor is a really really cozy gig and they and their descendants will not only never get over it, but also lots of other people who didn't benefit from slave plantations at all and would be worse off if they returned will latch onto the myth and imagine they'd be the aristocratic class if only we turned back time a couple centuries
|
|
#
?
Aug 8, 2017 06:26
|
|
|
VitalSigns posted:Medicare and Medicaid survived the repeal effort though. To my knowledge it did not rely on federal waivers. It just relied on those programs existing so they wouldn't have to pay out of state funds. If the UHC program was set up and then medicaid/care dropped out, suddenly the California UHC system would have to budget to cover all of those people too. I think it's acceptable to wait to have legislation that is more durable against a federal death cult onslaught. The GOP chants STATE'S RIGHTS but they don't actually care and will try anything they can get away with to bludgeon this to death at any amount of collateral damage to stop it from the federal level. They proved that already with the recent BCRA vote, or whatever the latest acronym was. Kylra fucked around with this message at 06:30 on Aug 8, 2017 |
|
#
?
Aug 8, 2017 06:26
|
|
|
VitalSigns posted:runaround back to the federal level, where it also can't succeed because corporations are too powerful but that's okay because state-level UHC is the way forward etc etc. Pelosi is just lying her rear end off about state level cause she's a bought off. I could be wrong, and it doesn't matter so I'm too lazy to look into it and this is purely assumption, but considering where Obama started negotiations, the stuff about her trying to get a public option done I could easily imagine is the same run around as the CA state kabuki theater with UHC, or the Republicans trying to get Obamacare vetoed knowing it wouldn't pass. Ogmius815 posted:Hmmmmmmm. You want to make an edit. Otherwise someone might think you're a Nazi instead of just a moron.
|
|
#
?
Aug 8, 2017 06:27
|
|
|
Charlz Guybon posted:Politicians, especially presidents, in the past have tried hard to carry out most of their campaign promises. Trump is a huge divergence from the norm there. Read my lips. No new taxes!
|
|
#
?
Aug 8, 2017 06:31
|
|
|
Al-Saqr posted:That's the thing though it's been 60 loving years and Castros dead and the regime is clearly headed for capitalism and the free market it's well past the point that it makes sense anymore but the vitriol hasn't died down. coyo7e posted:Read my lips. No new taxes!
|
|
#
?
Aug 8, 2017 06:35
|
|
|
Sneakster posted:Which Democrat was that? Republicans just run on promising to kill as many people as the federal government can't stop them from. George HW Bush https://youtu.be/GIAu9xQp-zo?t=121
|
|
#
?
Aug 8, 2017 06:47
|
|
|
Kylra posted:For now they have survived, yeah. It did quote:(2) It is the intent of the Legislature for the state to work to obtain waivers and other approvals relating to Medi-Cal, the state’s Children’s Health Insurance Program, Medicare, the PPACA, and any other federal programs so that any federal funds and other subsidies that would otherwise be paid to the State of California, Californians, and health care providers would be paid by the federal government to the State of California and deposited in the Healthy California Trust Fund. If Republicans killed Medicare/Medicaid tomorrow a whole bunch of states' healthcare systems would be hosed such as Maryland's all-payer system which depends on Medicare existing with reasonable payment rates. Requiring any state healthcare system to continue without any state budget impact or loss of coverage were Medicare to disappear is unreasonable (and impossible) and essentially makes state action on health care a nonstarter. And of course it's a direct contradiction to national Dem's messaging at the moment which is that reform must come from the state level (hmm how convenient, state and federal Democrats can do nothing and blame each other for doing nothing)
|
|
#
?
Aug 8, 2017 06:48
|
|
|
VitalSigns posted:The biggest obstacle were California's dumb ballot initiatives that make it hard to increase taxes and require that half of any new taxes have to be earmarked for schools or some dumb poo poo. It wasn't half, it was like 15% iirc, but that's still a lot when you're talking about UHC for one of the largest states in the country in terms of population. There was more to it, there was a great article explaining it and gently caress if I can't find it now. 
|
|
#
?
Aug 8, 2017 06:49
|
|
|
Are we gonna straight up abandon afghanistan because Trump can't understand factions?
|
|
#
?
Aug 8, 2017 06:50
|
|
|
coyo7e posted:Read my lips. No new taxes! Between 1968 and 2004 politicians kept 67 percent of their promises. https://www.google.co.kr/amp/s/fivethirtyeight.com/features/trust-us-politicians-keep-most-of-their-promises/amp/
|
|
#
?
Aug 8, 2017 06:59
|
|
|
Lightning Knight posted:It wasn't half, it was like 15% iirc, but that's still a lot when you're talking about UHC for one of the largest states in the country in terms of population. There was more to it, there was a great article explaining it and gently caress if I can't find it now. Are you thinking of the David Dayen piece? Because yeah, it's a really good rundown - even if the title is, frankly, terrible. I mean, holy poo poo, it's misleading - gently caress the editors. But the rest of the article is really good.
|
|
#
?
Aug 8, 2017 07:18
|
|
|
Majorian posted:Are you thinking of the David Dayen piece? Because yeah, it's a really good rundown - even if the title is, frankly, terrible. I mean, holy poo poo, it's misleading - gently caress the editors. But the rest of the article is really good. Yes this one! Yeah the title is kind of fucky but I think his essential point is right, but it was memorable to me because it explained just how loving dumb California politics seem to be.  Edit: oh gently caress it actually was 50% goddamn lmao
|
|
#
?
Aug 8, 2017 07:20
|
|
|
Lightning Knight posted:Yes this one! Yeah the title is kind of fucky but I think his essential point is right, but it was memorable to me because it explained just how loving dumb California politics seem to be. Yeah, I'm very proud of my state on a lot of levels, but, uh...we've made some really dumb loving mistakes, w/r/t referenda, ballot measures, etc. Wheeee~
|
|
#
?
Aug 8, 2017 07:22
|
|
|
Majorian posted:Yeah, I'm very proud of my state on a lot of levels, but, uh...we've made some really dumb loving mistakes, w/r/t referenda, ballot measures, etc. Wheeee~ As it turns out, letting voters codify "no new taxes" as ballot measure approved binding law is A Bad Thing. Still wanna move out to California though, it's miles better than where I live.
|
|
#
?
Aug 8, 2017 07:27
|
|
|
VitalSigns posted:It did However, my main argument was still not that a UHC program would increase the state budget, but that the federal government could (and I think would if they could get away with it in the current administration) try to torpedo the state budget by messing with how much a state UHC system is obligated to pay out if the budget for such a program by knocking out certain segments of federal funding, waivers or no. If the UHC program assumes that medicaid/medicare and such will just keep existing, when we came within 1 vote to a good chunk of it evaporating, I'm inclined to some leeway for a revision. If they've just given up entirely, sure I'll join you in haranguing them for it, but I thought the CA proposal was more back to the revision board than entirely dead at the moment.
|
|
#
?
Aug 8, 2017 07:34
|
|
|
https://twitter.com/verge/status/894741655495913472 Good riddance.
|
|
#
?
Aug 8, 2017 07:49
|
|
|
 This pleases me.
|
|
#
?
Aug 8, 2017 07:49
|
|
|
I'm sure the Trump administration has a place for him.
|
|
#
?
Aug 8, 2017 07:52
|
|
|
We didn't come within one vote of ending Medicaid; the skinny repeal that failed 49-51 only removed the mandate and left Medicaid alone. The Medicaid cuts were in the BCRA that failed by a lot, like 8 votes iirc. And the Speaker didn't send it to be revised, he sent it to committee without hearings and saidthe assembly won't do any work on it whatsoever, someone else write the legislation, not like legislating is our job or anything. Which is why it's laughable that people are still coming in saying "nonononono we can't have specifics ready before the election or people might not like the tradeoffs, we can write it all after we get elected" because when you elect politicians like that they turn right around and say "oh no one had specifics ready before the election, well we're not going to do it now, and weren't you stupid for electing us when we didn't have a plan"
|
|
#
?
Aug 8, 2017 07:54
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 11, 2024 09:46 |
|
|
Here's my manifesto about why the people working across from me and around me don't deserve their jobs + why I don't respect them. Their genitals are different and they are therefore not competitive.
|
|
#
?
Aug 8, 2017 07:55
|
|