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Paradoxish posted:I love that the administrators here are complaining that they can't find anyone who wants to work for $10.50/hour. Maybe that's actually pretty high for the part of Wisconsin the factory is located in, but in my area that's less than you'd be offered for decent retail work. I'm sure factory jobs offer drastically more reliable hours than most retail work, but it shouldn't be surprising that nobody wants to do monotonous, physically demanding work for near poverty-level wages. Yeah the article seems to take a very pro-robot stance, going out of its way to describe almost all workers as unreliable drunks. And then it reveals that even the model worker earns so little she can barely cover the bills and can't afford new clothes. If that was reward for hard work I'd start drinking and slacking off too. Solkanar512 posted:Until one of those planes crash because a sensor got hosed up and didn't know how to deal with conflicting or incorrect information. That happens to human pilots too. Software pilots would be immune to pilot suicides, pilots bringing kids into cockpit, pilots passing out, and possibly pilots relenting to dangerous requests and hi-jacking too. In short, I'd fly a software controlled plane even without a lower price.
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Aug 8, 2017 19:41
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mobby_6kl posted:Unless the pilots get confused and crash the airplane themselves There's two. e: I didn't notice the "s" 
3D Megadoodoo fucked around with this message at 21:01 on Aug 8, 2017 |
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Aug 8, 2017 19:47
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I don't think an AI would have screwed this one up either.
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Aug 8, 2017 19:58
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The airplane thread in the car forum brings up this very subject every other month or so. Can recommend.
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Aug 9, 2017 11:03
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ThisIsJohnWayne posted:The airplane thread in the car forum brings up this very subject every other month or so. Can recommend. Yeah, that is a good thread, even if you just follow it for images/videos
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Aug 9, 2017 11:13
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So we're all agreed that when the robots do demolish the middle and lower classes totally the rich will grind us into a fine paste right? No Star Trek stuff will happen
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Aug 9, 2017 11:38
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Lightning Lord posted:So we're all agreed that when the robots do demolish the middle and lower classes totally the rich will grind us into a fine paste right? No Star Trek stuff will happen People have decided that because technology is a witch, burn thomas edison, have you seen these kids today with their cell phones? It wasn't like that in MY day.
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Aug 9, 2017 12:14
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Lightning Lord posted:So we're all agreed that when the robots do demolish the middle and lower classes totally the rich will grind us into a fine paste right? No Star Trek stuff will happen The last remaining "wild" normal people will be ground to dust to make boner pills for super-rich Chinese businessmen. "Now, who do we gently caress?" *everyone looks at the poorest super-rich Chinese businessman*
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Aug 9, 2017 12:26
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Lightning Lord posted:So we're all agreed that when the robots do demolish the middle and lower classes totally the rich will grind us into a fine paste right? No Star Trek stuff will happen I'm predicting bum fights and webcam girls as our new goto professions and am enthusiastically training BJJ to prepare for my golden years.
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Aug 9, 2017 13:01
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How would a consumer economy even function in fully automated America? The wealthy are hoarding, they aren't buying all this poo poo.
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Aug 9, 2017 13:32
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:Then have a trained pilot sit in a room and play gameboy all day till the once a year mess up where he has to log in at a control panel that is exactly the same as the one he'd have if he was on the plane and have him fly it remote since it's not like pilots in 2017 fly the plane by looking out the front window anyway (although you can have a camera of that too if they want). Jesus Christ you're loving stupid. How in the hell are you going to maintain a perfectly secure connect to the plane that can't get hacked? How are you going to ensure that operating it remotely doesn't rely on the same loving sensors and doesn't even alert the pilot to begin with? How do you ensure that such a drastic change in how planes are flown integrates into our safety and regulatory system without negatively impacting the incredibly high standard of safety already in place? I know you get a huge boner for ovens that can be turned on and off remotely but you do not know what the gently caress your talking about when it comes to designing or building or flying aircraft.
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Aug 9, 2017 13:40
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LinYutang posted:How would a consumer economy even function in fully automated America? The wealthy are hoarding, they aren't buying all this poo poo. Yeah, the whole premise of the doom and gloom sci-fi story makes no sense, Like everyone is unemployeed because systems, computers and robots took their job and do them for less than minimum wage but somehow there is still rich people that get money by selling the products to ???? and all the poor people are deprived despite living in a world were nearly all tasks can be done by systems, computers and robots for less than minimum wage.
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Aug 9, 2017 13:41
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Solkanar512 posted:Jesus Christ you're loving stupid. How in the hell are you going to maintain a perfectly secure connect to the plane that can't get hacked? How are you going to ensure that operating it remotely doesn't rely on the same loving sensors and doesn't even alert the pilot to begin with? How do you ensure that such a drastic change in how planes are flown integrates into our safety and regulatory system without negatively impacting the incredibly high standard of safety already in place? How do they keep planes from crashing now?
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Aug 9, 2017 13:41
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Doctor Malaver posted:Yeah the article seems to take a very pro-robot stance, going out of its way to describe almost all workers as unreliable drunks. And then it reveals that even the model worker earns so little she can barely cover the bills and can't afford new clothes. If that was reward for hard work I'd start drinking and slacking off too. Hmm, yes. Instead of simple fixes and better training/procedures that actually work and serve to keep the public safe you want to completely upend the apple cart over some very, very rare instances of flight problems. Why do you guys get to presume that your robot pilot will act perfectly in every instance? Won't a human being be programming it? Won't it be limited by whatever sensors it has, regardless of functionality? What happens if a remote connection is hacked or otherwise manipulated? Do you guys serious not understand how interconnected these human and mechanical systems are? You can't just swap out the human pilots just because a robot can technically take off or land a plane at some airports in perfect conditions. It doesn't work like that, you need larger margins of safety.
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Aug 9, 2017 13:50
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:Yeah, the whole premise of the doom and gloom sci-fi story makes no sense, Like everyone is unemployeed because systems, computers and robots took their job and do them for less than minimum wage but somehow there is still rich people that get money by selling the products to ???? and all the poor people are deprived despite living in a world were nearly all tasks can be done by systems, computers and robots for less than minimum wage. I guess a scenario where rich people own all the poo poo and charge rent for poor people to use it?
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Aug 9, 2017 13:52
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:How do they keep planes from crashing now? The onus is on you to explain how you're going to integrate such systems into the current aviation system. I'm not going to play your stupid game where you post bullshit and ignore everything else that counters your opinion.
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Aug 9, 2017 13:53
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:Yeah, the whole premise of the doom and gloom sci-fi story makes no sense, Like everyone is unemployeed because systems, computers and robots took their job and do them for less than minimum wage but somehow there is still rich people that get money by selling the products to ???? and all the poor people are deprived despite living in a world were nearly all tasks can be done by systems, computers and robots for less than minimum wage.
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Aug 9, 2017 14:01
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Feral Integral posted:I guess a scenario where rich people own all the poo poo and charge rent for poor people to use it? We call that feudalism.
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Aug 9, 2017 14:10
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Feudalism is when they own the people as well as the land and the property. When they only own the latter two it's rentier capitalism.
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Aug 9, 2017 14:13
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Yeah so that's a whole premise of the doom and gloom sci-fi story making sense
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Aug 9, 2017 14:17
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:Yeah, the whole premise of the doom and gloom sci-fi story makes no sense, Like everyone is unemployeed because systems, computers and robots took their job and do them for less than minimum wage but somehow there is still rich people that get money by selling the products to ???? and all the poor people are deprived despite living in a world were nearly all tasks can be done by systems, computers and robots for less than minimum wage. Why do you need to sell things to laborers when you have free labour? I own a fancy car factory, and I make money by selling fancy cars to the guy who owns the fancy house factory. It's a much smaller economy with a high barrier to entry. I have no reason to involve the underclasses. e: and lets say one guy owns everything and has nobody to sell to. What does he need money for? He can simply make everything for himself. Dr. Stab fucked around with this message at 14:23 on Aug 9, 2017 |
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Aug 9, 2017 14:20
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Guavanaut posted:Feudalism is when they own the people as well as the land and the property. When they only own the latter two it's rentier capitalism. Of course you can't own people straight up these days, now you just saddle them with crushing debt and misleading refinance options to do the job.
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Aug 9, 2017 14:22
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Guavanaut posted:Feudalism is when they own the people as well as the land and the property. When they only own the latter two it's rentier capitalism. Though really, that's not that relevant to a robot future. Feudal lords made arrangements with the peasantry because they needed their labor, but if the cheapest labor is now a robot then the peasantry (or their modern equivalent) serves no purpose.
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Aug 9, 2017 14:32
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dmQ-BZ3eWxM
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Aug 9, 2017 14:33
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Dr. Stab posted:Why do you need to sell things to laborers when you have free labour? Okay, so why can't the poor people chip in to buy their own everything factory?
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Aug 9, 2017 14:35
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:Okay, so why can't the poor people chip in to buy their own everything factory?
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Aug 9, 2017 14:41
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https://twitter.com/annalecta/status/895290325316640769
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Aug 9, 2017 15:43
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I guess the big question regarding the automation endgame is how many people exist at the point to share the goodness. Unless countries start implementing significant leftist policies we will have such a huge number of bitter people with no food or shelter that a bloodbath is inevitable.
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Aug 9, 2017 18:01
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I read that as robot taxi at first.
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Aug 9, 2017 18:26
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A Buttery Pastry posted:Chip in with what? Working people didn't buy out capitalists back when they made decent wages, and in this scenario they'll live at a subsistence level at best. It's also not in the interest of the wealthy to share that factory, as it will increase the competition for the resources required to build everything. It just seems overly contrived to imagine a world where nearly any job can be done by a machine that costs less than 15,080 a year to own and run but also all these services they provide can be controlled by some evil ultra rich class that could never be undercut by the fact anyone can own a machine. And that with no one working that the rich people that own all the services and manufacturing robots are somehow still getting rich selling these things to ?????
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Aug 9, 2017 18:42
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:It just seems overly contrived to imagine a world where nearly any job can be done by a machine that costs less than 15,080 a year to own and run but also all these services they provide can be controlled by some evil ultra rich class that could never be undercut by the fact anyone can own a machine. And that with no one working that the rich people that own all the services and manufacturing robots are somehow still getting rich selling these things to ????? As for your second point, we're talking about a post-consumer society, if they're selling things it's to other people owning other kinds of automated machinery with access to resources they do not possess themselves. We're literally talking about the economy splitting apart, one part growing more and more automated while the other becomes home to redundant people. It's not just our present society but with more robots, it's a complete replacement of one system for another (or two others).
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Aug 9, 2017 19:00
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A Buttery Pastry posted:How would "anyone" get their hands on these machines? Who is selling them, and why? I mean, they could be keeping them for themselves and selling whatever they make, There has never been a time in history that the rich have been able to keep some technology exclusive to themselves for long.
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Aug 9, 2017 19:21
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:There has never been a time in history that the rich have been able to keep some technology exclusive to themselves for long. Sure, they'll get cheaper, but you won't have a job to pay for this tech no matter the price, since before it got cheap enough for the average person to buy it's already killed lots of jobs, and kills more as it gets cheaper.
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Aug 9, 2017 19:33
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:There has never been a time in history that the rich have been able to keep some technology exclusive to themselves for long. Thanks to the successful destruction of the populist left over the past several decades, the ball is firmly in the rich folks' court. They have a decision to make in the next few decades: placate the masses with increased welfare (just enough to prevent popular uprising), or reenact that Dead Kennedy's song and create a whole lot newly freed up real estate to play in. The techbros seem to kinda favor the former (while hedging their bets with New Zealand bugout bunkers), while the older money are funding conservative politicians to implement the latter. I'd bet on the latter camp winning, frankly.
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Aug 9, 2017 20:25
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A robot tax that feeds into a basic income would be nice, but ultimately keeps the means of production in the hands of the few. There's also plenty of tax fuckery and dodging waiting in the wings, because people don't imagine plain old computers being a robot.
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Aug 9, 2017 21:24
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SnowblindFatal posted:I guess the big question regarding the automation endgame is how many people exist at the point to share the goodness. Unless countries start implementing significant leftist policies we will have such a huge number of bitter people with no food or shelter that a bloodbath is inevitable. But everything belongs to the rich, they earned it! I think the whole premise of a ruling class living outside of normal society is a little funny, even the ultra rich still rely on infrastructure. They aren't making GBS threads into their own private plumbing systems or powering their homes on their own grid or having private roads built to transport all the goods they consume and produce. Without the socialist policies of the modern day, that maintain and create the infrastructure that makes automation possible, they would be hosed. Even the ultra-rich would have trouble building their mega-space-yachts without some kind of industrial pipeline, which requires infrastructure, that they wouldn't otherwise be able to afford (history shows us that).
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Aug 9, 2017 22:51
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ElCondemn posted:But everything belongs to the rich, they earned it! Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the early days of industrialisation exactly just islands individual infrastructure systems? A factory was powered by a steam engine at the factory. Sure that needed fuel and workers needed food, but it's pretty easy to imagine a single big company being able to handle all this stuff by themselves.
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Aug 10, 2017 16:14
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Solkanar512 posted:Until one of those planes crash because a sensor got hosed up and didn't know how to deal with conflicting or incorrect information. Well I mean the data is pretty clear that pilot error kills more people than mechanical failure, so
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Aug 10, 2017 16:32
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call to action posted:Well I mean the data is pretty clear that pilot error kills more people than mechanical failure, so Actually those situations are incredibly complicated and groups like the NTSB never stop at simple one cause unless it's something like a bomb. This is really loving lazy thinking, and you still need to prove that the new systems you and OOCC keep jerking off to are going to prevent more problems than they cause.
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Aug 10, 2017 18:48
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Solkanar512 posted:Actually those situations are incredibly complicated and groups like the NTSB never stop at simple one cause unless it's something like a bomb. This is really loving lazy thinking, and you still need to prove that the new systems you and OOCC keep jerking off to are going to prevent more problems than they cause. quote:“Can the accident rate be further reduced substantially? Absolutely yes,” said Robert Dismukes, chief scientist for human factors research and technology at NASA’s Ames Research Center in Moffett Field, Calif. “But this will require better understanding of the underlying causes of human error and better ways of managing human error.” http://www.denverpost.com/2010/02/13/human-error-is-biggest-obstacle-to-100-percent-flight-safety/ Tell me more about how you know more than the NASA researcher
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Aug 10, 2017 19:00
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