DSA: our brake light guy got arrested for beating his wife

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > C-SPAM > DSA: our brake light guy got arrested for beating his wife

GunnerJ: Aug 1, 2005; Do you think this is funny?

It's not about "prosecuting someone for not believing that" as far as if can tell. I haven't even seen anyone weigh in on whether Danny believes in that or not.

# ? Aug 9, 2017 15:57

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# ? May 18, 2024 07:21

jarofpiss: May 16, 2009

doesn't matter if he believes it or not if he can support the position now that it's adopted. hes not a current police organizer and i assume we aren't purging the delegates that voted against the position

# ? Aug 9, 2017 16:27

Iridium: Apr 4, 2002; Wretched Harp

when the fetonte poo poo first went down, the metro atlanta branch was in there calling for his resignation right away. they later came back and noted that one of our delegates, matt, wasn't comfortable calling for the resignation without more info.

since then he's been tweeting some poo poo about hearing 'insider conversations' with the npc blah blah. no actual details of course. but earlier he said some new poo poo had come to light and itd be a big deal. and now

https://twitter.com/MatthewWolfsen/status/895308362925187073

# ? Aug 9, 2017 16:41

jarofpiss: May 16, 2009

"why aren't we a democratic centralist organization!??!" the demsocs shout from twitter

# ? Aug 9, 2017 16:46

empireofcrime: Nov 3, 2015; The crimes of this guilty land can never be purged away but with blood.

Iridium posted:

when the fetonte poo poo first went down, the metro atlanta branch was in there calling for his resignation right away. they later came back and noted that one of our delegates, matt, wasn't comfortable calling for the resignation without more info.

since then he's been tweeting some poo poo about hearing 'insider conversations' with the npc blah blah. no actual details of course. but earlier he said some new poo poo had come to light and itd be a big deal. and now

https://twitter.com/MatthewWolfsen/status/895308362925187073

Really would like an actual update that's not as intentionally vague as possible from National sometime soon(hopefully before the end of the week?) to head off people quitting over this poo poo.

# ? Aug 9, 2017 16:48

Iridium: Apr 4, 2002; Wretched Harp

empireofcrime posted:

Really would like an actual update that's not as intentionally vague as possible from National sometime soon(hopefully before the end of the week?) to head off people quitting over this poo poo.

agreeeeeed

# ? Aug 9, 2017 16:49

surfacelevelspeck: Oct 1, 2008; communism's sleepiest soldier

https://twitter.com/andrew_r_porter/status/894711450857611265

# ? Aug 9, 2017 17:06

Ofaloaf: Feb 15, 2013

Syndlig posted:

Danny doesn't use the internet, period, and even his emails are done by someone else.

All else about Mr. Fetonte aside, is it a good idea for someone who doesn't use online services at all to be part of the primary political leadership of the national org, a role which surely requires much discussion via multiple lines of communication?

# ? Aug 9, 2017 17:10

achillesforever6: Apr 23, 2012; psst you wanna do a communism?

Had fun making the Pittsburgh DSA aware of this on the slack page
http://www.post-gazette.com/opinion/letters/2017/08/09/This-grad-student-would-rather-not-join-a-union-nbsp/stories/201708080015
Comrades have been giving good responses that its only a matter of time before the usual suspects on the PG comments section (a group of like 8 really conservative people) start getting really salty... its really sad that I know this much about the inner workings of the Pittsburgh Post Gazette's comment ecosystem.

# ? Aug 9, 2017 17:13

ThndrShk2k: Nov 3, 2009; by Nyc_Tattoo; Bread Liar

Lets hope there's some info by the week's end.

https://twitter.com/lindsnilly/status/895317051098578945
https://twitter.com/lindsnilly/status/895317454129254401
https://twitter.com/lindsnilly/status/895318687439179777

https://twitter.com/lindsnilly/status/895318956742918148

# ? Aug 9, 2017 17:21

I Am A Robot: Jul 1, 2006

quote:

All -
Peg and I are sending this out to all the signers of the Unity through Diversity statement. We are asking for your thoughts on some questions we raise - but no hurry in getting back to us. We are not doing more DSA work until late today. For now we are going paddling and then planning our hikes and castle tours when we go to Scotland in Sept.

Also, thanks ti Sam Miemczewski for her thoughts on an earlier version.

The Fight over Danny Fetonte's Serving on the NPC
8-9-2017 Bill Barclay and Peg Strobel

It is with both sorrow and anger that we are writing this email, but we also have some hope. We are sending this to the people who signed the Unity through Diversity statement because we value your thoughts and ideas.

We believe it essential that we affirm the right of all workers to organize into unions. In fact, CWA, one of the few large unions that endorsed Sanders, has many police locals - see: https://www.cwa-union.org/about. DSA should not ostracize police unions; we should recognize that there are differences among police unions. To be specific, the police union that Danny Fetonte worked for as a union organizer is CWA 6911/CLEAT. It is different than .the Fraternal Order of Police (FOP). CWA/CLEAT is affiliated with NAPO. NAPO endorsed Obama in both 2008 and 2012.

We understand that the new NPC members, like ourselves, were exhausted by the work leading up the convention and the convention itself. And, unlike those of us who live in Chicago, most had to travel home. But, we do find it very alarming that the NPC failed to early and clearly issue a statement that all DSA members deserve a fair hearing and a chance to respond to coherently articulated accusations. The attacks and demands for resignation without full understanding of the situation are not comradely, and are certainly not fair or just. This failure of leadership is especially concerning as we enter what are likely to be turbulent times for the organization.

We acknowledge Theresa Alt's point that the new NPC has not set up a listserv, but the insistence that all members are entitled to a fair hearing and the right to respond could and, we think, should have been immediately said by NPC members individually in their roles as DSA members and elected leaders.

Danny has asked Austin DSAers not to respond to the tweets, FB posts, etc., because he believes that doing so will only escalate the conflict. They have agreed to refrani from responding. Some individuals took action and stood with Danny despite his wishes; they have been viciously harassed by other members. This behavior is inexcusable no matter what you believe to be the right course of action with the newly elected NPC. Many organizations have suffered and died because of the type of toxic infighting that has been evident for the past couple of days. We must remember we are all comrades who come from different backgrounds with different beliefs but are now in DSA to fight together to advance socialist policy and action.

Now on to some questions: - and we are interested in everybody's thoughts.

(1) What do people feel should be the balance between what one has done in the past and what one has done in DSA?

I ask because Danny has been essential in building the Austin chapter, including activities such as defending Muslims at a gathering on Austin's Muslim Capitol Day (see press here: https://www.texastribune.org/2017/01/31/texas-capitol-rally-muslim-advocacy-day-draws-1000). As you read this article, keep in mind that Texas is an open-carry state and that some of the right wingers seeking to disrupt the gathering were armed. This is only one example of his, and the chapter's, work.

(2) Who should be prohibited, based on their employment by/in an organization, or positions taken by an organization of which they were a member? For example, we have veterans in DSA and now a Veterans Working Group. They all served in an imperial occupying army -- they volunteered to do so, and some may have served as officers. Should they be eliminated from consideration for leadership? We think not. Another example: AFSCME in Illinois organizes prisons guards: should AFSCME members who organize prison guards be prohibited leadership positions? We think not. Or, to take a personal example: during Bill's career in finance, he led the development of a derivative product. Derivatives were part of what caused the financial panic and great recession. Perhaps Bill should also be prohibited from leadership roles. This list could probably be expanded significantly.

(3) We think the vote for Danny for a seat on the NPC represented both support for his politics and also a rejection of slates and slating. If Danny is forced off the NPC, should we demand that the next highest vote getter among those who signed the UTD statement be the person added?

(4) Do we want to issue any statement about what has been happening and/or the failure of the elected leadership to stand up immediately for basic rights, including a right to due process. There is a very late and weak statement along those lines that has been issued since we drafted this document. We think the concern is still valid, maybe even more so, given the weakness of the statement and that it came only from staff, not from the NPC.

(5) And the most difficult question of all: can we limit the destructive impact of this episode? Is it a teachable moment where we can get our members to look at the real world, understand that we all have to work in not perfect situations but that, even within those situations, we can sometimes make a difference (see the account below).

In another example of the out-of-control nature of what is happening, the member who administers DSA 's New Member FB plans to resign from that task. She is a good friend and called us to say that now she is under attack for taking down posts that are, We're pretty sure, beyond what is acceptable. She reports that the vast majority of the nasty posts have come from people with male names. This past weekend we passed a policy on harassment, it should be kept in mind when interacting with others, both off- and on-line. Members should never have to feel uncomfortable and attacked by their comrades.

This is a larger problem that we see, and it is a very serious one. We as comrades claim to be open-minded and fair, but we too easily get swept up in online drama. This behavior severely interferes with our ability to grow and be effective in our work. We must unify, stand together, and trust the process. We must first step back and ensure we have all of the information before jumping in and demanding action. We must demand a fair and just investigation and ask that our leadership take action based on the conclusion of those findings. If we continue down this path of toxicity, DSA will suffer considerably by creating a culture of hostility. In a time of dire need for unity we must give each of our members the benefit of the doubt and the support they each deserve while our elected leadership finds appropriate solutions.
We are sending this by email, which we realize is not particularly secure. If you want to respond but don't want to use email, email Bill indicating some times you want to talk. We could set up a conference call for all interested. We're on vacation where our cell phones don�t work, so we need to talk by internet and will set up a call.

An addition:
We talked with Danny Tuesday morning and learned more about his Communications Workers of America (CWA) work organizing with police for which he is being deemed by some to be unfit to serve on the NPC. He was asked by CWA to negotiate the affiliation of CLEAT into CWA. CLEAT became CWA Local 6911. For the next 20 years, while Danny organized wireless workers, public workers, airline workers, he served as the contact for the rest of CWA with CLEAT/CWA. For five years he was paid by CLEAT to train and organize Sheriff Officers. The work with the police units included the following. After liberation, the newly elected South African government asked to send someone from their police to the U.S. for training. Danny was asked to help escort the leader of the South African police. The woman they sent, a leader in the South African police union, had served in the police during apartheid and simultaneously in the African National Congress underground. She received training, but she also "trained" U.S. police officers by telling them that police unions should fight not only for wages and pensions but also for better conditions (food and education) for the prisoners. Doing so, she said, would mean that, when their sentences were finished, prisoners would be better able to function in and contribute to society; they would be less likely to be recidivists, less likely to be enemies in the future. One of the many points to be drawn from this anecdote: do not make assumptions about someone based upon the job they hold or once held.

I 100% agree with this and I find people's propensity to form firm conclusions before details are investigated and confirmed to be both disturbing and unsurprising. It's surprisingly easy for things to appear one way and in actuality be another.

# ? Aug 9, 2017 17:25

Dmitri-9: Nov 30, 2004; There's something really sexy about Scrooge McDuck. I love Uncle Scrooge.

jarofpiss posted:

also i want to state again that DSA was not prison abolitionist before sunday so im not sure how far back we can prosecute someone for not believing that

That is a real position of the DSA? I thought someone was just being cheeky when they tweeted that out during the conference. To me it seems like a naive reaction to American style mass incarceration that swings so far to the other extreme resulting in stupidity. Not all crime is caused by material deprivation so I wouldn't be in favor of abolishing prisons and the police even in a Utopian post-scarcity society.

# ? Aug 9, 2017 17:31

Raskolnikov38: Mar 3, 2007; We were somewhere around Manila when the drugs began to take hold

think of it as abolishing the police as they currently exist

# ? Aug 9, 2017 17:32

Agnosticnixie: Jan 6, 2015

Dmitri-9 posted:

That is a real position of the DSA? I thought someone was just being cheeky when they tweeted that out during the conference. To me it seems like a naive reaction to American style mass incarceration that swings so far to the other extreme resulting in stupidity. Not all crime is caused by material deprivation so I wouldn't be in favor of abolishing prisons and the police even in a Utopian post-scarcity society.

Did the 30 pages arguing about alternate forms of justice not tip you off?

Also virtual abolition is still going to be the result of any push towards liberation from capitalism because most of the forms of policing and justice we have to day are still built around the goals of the society we live in.

# ? Aug 9, 2017 17:33

surfacelevelspeck: Oct 1, 2008; communism's sleepiest soldier

Dmitri-9 posted:

That is a real position of the DSA? I thought someone was just being cheeky when they tweeted that out during the conference. To me it seems like a naive reaction to American style mass incarceration that swings so far to the other extreme resulting in stupidity. Not all crime is caused by material deprivation so I wouldn't be in favor of abolishing prisons and the police even in a Utopian post-scarcity society.

The stance "calls for" the abolition of police and private prisons, but when you actually read it it calls for criminal justice reform, iirc. I think it was part of the Praxis slate.

# ? Aug 9, 2017 17:33

Internet Explorer: Jun 1, 2005

Thanks for posting that. Glad to see cooler heads seem to be prevailing.

# ? Aug 9, 2017 17:34

the bitcoin of weed: Nov 1, 2014

Dmitri-9 posted:

That is a real position of the DSA? I thought someone was just being cheeky when they tweeted that out during the conference. To me it seems like a naive reaction to American style mass incarceration that swings so far to the other extreme resulting in stupidity. Not all crime is caused by material deprivation so I wouldn't be in favor of abolishing prisons and the police even in a Utopian post-scarcity society.

abolitionist positions like getting rid of the police and prisons should be understood as replacing them with something functional (and thus completely different) and not the abolition of enforcement of law

# ? Aug 9, 2017 17:34

an actual dog: Nov 18, 2014

the only law is robert's rules

# ? Aug 9, 2017 17:35

the bitcoin of weed: Nov 1, 2014

cop stands for Capitalist On Patrol and obviously we don't want any of those

# ? Aug 9, 2017 17:36

surfacelevelspeck: Oct 1, 2008; communism's sleepiest soldier

I Am A Robot posted:

I 100% agree with this and I find people's propensity to form firm conclusions before details are investigated and confirmed to be both disturbing and unsurprising. It's surprisingly easy for things to appear one way and in actuality be another.

Where was this posted? Wanted to share it with my Austin comrades.

# ? Aug 9, 2017 17:38

HiHo ChiRho: Oct 23, 2010

an actual dog posted:

the only law is robert's rules

# ? Aug 9, 2017 17:38

bump_fn: Apr 12, 2004; _{two of them}

achillesforever6 posted:

Had fun making the Pittsburgh DSA aware of this on the slack page
http://www.post-gazette.com/opinion/letters/2017/08/09/This-grad-student-would-rather-not-join-a-union-nbsp/stories/201708080015
Comrades have been giving good responses that its only a matter of time before the usual suspects on the PG comments section (a group of like 8 really conservative people) start getting really salty... its really sad that I know this much about the inner workings of the Pittsburgh Post Gazette's comment ecosystem.

this kid is so loving wrong about grad students holy poo poo

the line about "wouldn't you just get a postdoc" ahahahaha he has no loving idea what he's talking about

# ? Aug 9, 2017 17:57

Doc Hawkins: Jun 15, 2010; Dashing? But I'm not even moving!

Ofaloaf posted:

All else about Mr. Fetonte aside, is it a good idea for someone who doesn't use online services at all to be part of the primary political leadership of the national org, a role which surely requires much discussion via multiple lines of communication?

will those accused of the crime of Being Insufficiently Online be taken to court or just sent directly into a struggle session?

# ? Aug 9, 2017 18:13

Iridium: Apr 4, 2002; Wretched Harp

Doc Hawkins posted:

will those accused of the crime of Being Insufficiently Online be taken to court or just sent directly into a struggle session?

i've been worried about that. i don't FB so i miss out on a lot of poo poo, i dont tweet much...

:ohdear:

# ? Aug 9, 2017 18:18

bump_fn: Apr 12, 2004; _{two of them}

Iridium posted:

i've been worried about that. i don't FB so i miss out on a lot of poo poo, i dont tweet much...

all posters are equal but some posters are more equal than others

# ? Aug 9, 2017 18:20

IWW Online Branch: Apr 20, 2016; by Nyc_Tattoo

I Am A Robot posted:

I 100% agree with this and I find people's propensity to form firm conclusions before details are investigated and confirmed to be both disturbing and unsurprising. It's surprisingly easy for things to appear one way and in actuality be another.

See, for me the real issue isn't even necessarily that he did some work with CLEAT. It's that he, apparently, wasn't forthright with that fact. Already at least one person who voted for him has said that they wouldn't have had they known about this. No matter what you might think of Fetonte or his work that's not cool.

# ? Aug 9, 2017 18:20

R. Mute: Jul 27, 2011

TrilliontonNixon posted:

See, for me the real issue isn't even necessarily that he did some work with CLEAT. It's that he, apparently, wasn't forthright with that fact. Already at least one person who voted for him has said that they wouldn't have had they known about this. No matter what you might think of Fetonte or his work that's not cool.

It's not like he's a registered sex offender, having to go from house to house to inform people.

# ? Aug 9, 2017 18:23

Insanite: Aug 30, 2005

TrilliontonNixon posted:

See, for me the real issue isn't even necessarily that he did some work with CLEAT. It's that he, apparently, wasn't forthright with that fact. Already at least one person who voted for him has said that they wouldn't have had they known about this. No matter what you might think of Fetonte or his work that's not cool.

idk about that sentiment, as the fieriest takes online right now seem to assume that not only is he a cop + agent provocateur, but that he has a throne of cracked activist skulls in his basement or something

what "this" really is doesn't seem to be clear to me. there's so much unreliable info floating around. if what I Am A Robot shared is accurate, i'd personally be 100% for him staying where he is.

# ? Aug 9, 2017 18:28

Agean90: Jun 28, 2008

R. Mute posted:

It's not like he's a registered sex offender, having to go from house to house to inform people.

There's also the possibility that he didn't really think that it needs to be disclosed. Assume good faith until proven otherwise people.

# ? Aug 9, 2017 18:28

ThndrShk2k: Nov 3, 2009; by Nyc_Tattoo; Bread Liar

Agean90 posted:

There's also the possibility that he didn't really think that it needs to be disclosed. Assume good faith until proven otherwise people.

It's not like the Texas CWA including CLEAT was a big secret being hidden.

# ? Aug 9, 2017 18:32

jarofpiss: May 16, 2009

we're hosed arent we nobody knows how unions work

# ? Aug 9, 2017 18:38

jarofpiss: May 16, 2009

R. Mute posted:

It's not like he's a registered sex offender, having to go from house to house to inform people.

we voted to abolish the registry anyway

# ? Aug 9, 2017 18:39

Mechafunkzilla: Sep 11, 2006; If you want a vision of the future...

jarofpiss posted:

we're hosed arent we nobody knows how unions work

Well there's that one guy in the NPC who has a lot of experience with unions. Danny something

# ? Aug 9, 2017 18:46

IWW Online Branch: Apr 20, 2016; by Nyc_Tattoo

I don't know, at this point I'm not even mad at Fetonte, I just wish I'd known about it before he was elected, instead of it being dropped like a stinkbomb afterwards. His record might not have been hidden, but I keep hearing about how people who were at the convention, even those who spoke with him at length, were totally blindsided by this. If all of this had been explained before the vote I would have no problem with him staying on the NPC.

# ? Aug 9, 2017 18:47

R. Mute: Jul 27, 2011

imagine what the people who were in the dsa before the 2016 election must think of all this. "oh hey a lot of new comrades i hope we can do great things togeth- oh look one of them tweeted at me. im a class traitor and maize?"

# ? Aug 9, 2017 18:48

Pizza Segregationist: Jul 18, 2006

Insanite posted:

idk about that sentiment, as the fieriest takes online right now seem to assume that not only is he a cop + agent provocateur, but that he has a throne of cracked activist skulls in his basement or something

what "this" really is doesn't seem to be clear to me. there's so much unreliable info floating around. if what I Am A Robot shared is accurate, i'd personally be 100% for him staying where he is.

Yeah I have a hard time believing he was being intentionally deceptive. It's really unfortunate how online rumors can snowball like this.

# ? Aug 9, 2017 18:50

big black turnout: Jan 13, 2009; Fallen Rib

i know this is off topic but i was walking through my office building earlier and found myself singing

"25000 reds nude and mad
25000 reds
one calms down, puts on some clothes
24999 reds nude and mad"

# ? Aug 9, 2017 18:53

Venom Snake: Feb 19, 2014; by Nyc_Tattoo

jarofpiss posted:

we're hosed arent we nobody knows how unions work

My favorite take is that apparently park rangers/game wardens are evil defenders of capital because they are technically LEO's lmao

# ? Aug 9, 2017 19:25

Agean90: Jun 28, 2008

Venom Snake posted:

My favorite take is that apparently park rangers/game wardens are evil defenders of capital because they are technically LEO's lmao

game wardens can be assholes but they deal with drunk hobby fishermen for a living which will wear on anyone

# ? Aug 9, 2017 19:37

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# ? May 18, 2024 07:21

Vhak lord of hate: Jun 6, 2008; I AM DRINK THE BLOOD OF JESUS

the other dumb angry post

Vhak lord of hate has issued a correction as of 20:08 on Aug 9, 2017

# ? Aug 9, 2017 19:57

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