Al Andalus: A Paradox Mega-LP

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AJ_Impy: Jun 17, 2007; SWORD OF SMATTAS. CAN YOU NOT HEAR A WORLD CRY OUT FOR JUSTICE? WHEN WILL YOU DELIVER IT?; Yam Slacker

Ralepozozaxe posted:

In case anyone's wondering, going back to Sunni will tank our prestige and set us at -3 stability.

But it will prevent the Sunni majority tanking our prestige and setting us at -3 stability the hard way, whilst also wrecking our army and letting our rivals carve out a few chunks. It's a rough place to be in: Conversion is one of the few ways out.

# ? Aug 10, 2017 01:45

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# ? May 18, 2024 02:37

Lord Cyrahzax: Oct 11, 2012

Hashim posted:

And that's assuming the sultan would be okay with it.

Can the Sultan still veto the Majlis with the new balance of power under the Constitutional Monarchy? Did we even end up writing an official 'constitution'?

# ? Aug 10, 2017 01:47

Ralepozozaxe: Sep 6, 2010; A Veritable Smorgasbord!

Hashim, change the last part of my law to negating the conversion to Sunni. There will be time to protect people's when the new faction gets up and running, another blowout is more important to deal with.

# ? Aug 10, 2017 01:48

Crazycryodude: Aug 15, 2015; Lets get our X tons of Duranium back!

....Is that still a valid thing to jingoistically blow out of proportion?

Did somebody say "Constitutional Convention"? I am so ready for the rebirth of Crete

# ? Aug 10, 2017 01:49

everydayfalls: Aug 23, 2016

Archaeology Hat posted:

I propose the Better Guns, Better Boats, Better Life Act, mandating that Innovation be supported at every turn so that our military be supplied with the most up to date weapons.

Lets not hate, let's innovate.

support

# ? Aug 10, 2017 01:49

AJ_Impy: Jun 17, 2007; SWORD OF SMATTAS. CAN YOU NOT HEAR A WORLD CRY OUT FOR JUSTICE? WHEN WILL YOU DELIVER IT?; Yam Slacker

Let's face it, chronologically we're pretty much right on schedule for a James the Beshitten.

# ? Aug 10, 2017 01:49

hashashash: Nov 2, 2016; Cure for cancer discovered!
Court physicians hate him!

Lord Cyrahzax posted:

Can the Sultan still veto the Majlis with the new balance of power under the Constitutional Monarchy? Did we even end up writing an official 'constitution'?

The Majlis are definitely the dominant power now, but the Sultan's powers were merely limited, not abolished. So yeah, he does still have his sultanic veto, along with the power to dismiss Grand Viziers (who will rise to prominence now that we've got a conmon.)

# ? Aug 10, 2017 01:51

catlord: Mar 22, 2009; What's on your mind, Axa?

Archaeology Hat posted:

I propose the Better Guns, Better Boats, Better Life Act, mandating that Innovation be supported at every turn so that our military be supplied with the most up to date weapons.

I support this act!

# ? Aug 10, 2017 01:54

Danny Glands: Jan 26, 2013; Possible thermal failure (CPU on fire?)

Talas posted:

I submit the You're Gonna Need a Bigger Fleet Act.

Step 1: Get money.
Step 2: Colonize unclaimed Pacific islands.
Step 3: Build a fleet comparable to Morocco.

EDIT: Added suggestion.

Supporting. Ships now, inflation later.

# ? Aug 10, 2017 01:58

devildragon777: May 17, 2014; They'd be a lot more scary if they were more than an inch tall each.

Changed to Innovative Ideas, so hopefully the Taifas support more military/manpower focused acts, like Sheep-dodger's Homeland Security Act...

# ? Aug 10, 2017 02:09

Erwin the German: May 30, 2011; :3

devildragon777 posted:

Going to propose the Religious Revival Act.

1: Build/Upgrade to Great Mosques wherever and whenever possible
2: Take Innovative Ideas
3: Advance Humanist Ideas as fast as possible, to reduce revolts

Edit: Would Innovative Ideas be better than Administrative?

Edit 2: Taking Innovative Ideas.

I support this.

# ? Aug 10, 2017 02:15

mcclay: Jul 8, 2013; Oh dear oh gosh oh darn; Soiled Meat

Technowolf posted:

I propose the It's the economy, stupid! act. The sultan is to chose Economic as our next idea group and try to get to the idea that gives a permanent -.10 inflation reduction.

Supporting this

# ? Aug 10, 2017 03:01

Viola the Mad: Feb 13, 2010

I, Rabab bint Rabab al-Majnun, declare my support for the Taifas, and vote for the Building Bridges Act. Alliances, alliances, alliances! We can't win the war against France or Morocco without more alliances!

# ? Aug 10, 2017 03:05

Ralepozozaxe: Sep 6, 2010; A Veritable Smorgasbord!

If we do get innovative, it will be smart to finish humanism before we even start on it, as humanisms finisher is -10% idea cost. Ideas are often more costly than techs, depending on how early you choose to take techs.

# ? Aug 10, 2017 03:37

Crazycryodude: Aug 15, 2015; Lets get our X tons of Duranium back!

....Is that still a valid thing to jingoistically blow out of proportion?

Rodyle posted:

Idea:

Building Bridges
1. Restore our alliances with Bavaria, Provence, and Tunis
2. Select Innovation for our next idea group
3. Add more accepted cultures, starting with the largest.

Although now that the Ulema have Innovative ideas locked down it might be more worthwhile to change Point 2 out for something else.

# ? Aug 10, 2017 06:14

Average Lettuce: Oct 22, 2012

Talas posted:

I submit the You're Gonna Need a Bigger Fleet Act.

Step 1: Get money.
Step 2: Colonize unclaimed Pacific islands.
Step 3: Build a fleet comparable to Morocco.

EDIT: Added suggestion.

I support this!

# ? Aug 10, 2017 06:39

Dance Officer: May 4, 2017; It would be awesome if we could dance!

Captain Oblivious posted:

To make things as clear as possible for people, Innovative versus Economic is this:

Innovative:
-1% Prestige Decay
-25% Mercenary Maintenance
-10% Technology Cost/Institution Embrace Cost
+1 possible advisors
-10% reduce inflation cost
-0.05 monthly war exhaustion
+1 leaders without upkeep
-25% advisors cost

vs.

Economic:
+10% national tax modifier
-10% build cost
+0.10 yearly inflation reduction
-1 interest per annum
-0.05 monthly autonomy change
-10% land maintenance modifier
+10% production efficiency
-20% development cost

It's a tough decision, but I'm leaning Innovative because of the policies Innovative brings to the table. Innovative+Offensive (+10% siege leader ability and +1 leader siege) and Innovative+Quality (+20% infantry combat ability) are both rad as hell!

It's actually not a tough decision at all. We need morale, force limit and unit cost reductions. But morale most of all. What I suggest we do is to take defensive ideas

Dance Officer fucked around with this message at 07:03 on Aug 10, 2017

# ? Aug 10, 2017 06:58

sheep-dodger: Feb 21, 2013

Dance Officer posted:

It's actually not a tough decision at all. We need morale, force limit and unit cost reductions. But morale most of all. What I suggest we do is to take defensive ideas

I would generally agree, but we are behind on mil tech and still have two ideas of Offensive left to finish:

we also have a 4/1/1 coming up as the next sultan, unless a faction decides they want to use an instruction to get him disinherited.

I would generally advise people not to vote for another administrative idea group though, even if getting innovative sounds nice on paper. For those of you who are not as familiar with the game, here's why:
Humanism, administrative and innovative are all idea groups whose ideas you buy by paying for them with administrative power points. What does admin power do?

core provinces
buy administrative ideas
increase stability
buy admin tech
reduce inflation
increase a province's base tax

As a result of this, admin points are usually the most important limitation for an conquering power, as they determine how quickly you can integrate new territory by coring it.
If we pick up another administrative idea group, every time we have to chose between either advancing the new group, advancing Humanism (and there's some life-saving poo poo coming up for us there, we want to get the heretic tolerance at the end of the idea group as soon as possible), advancing our technology or conquering more stuff. (not to mention that we still need to reduce the 13 inflation we're sitting on) A second admin idea group will therefore not actually do much for us, as there are much better places to spend our admin points, and instead only block that idea group slot for the next decades without giving us any return on our investment.
Instead we should pick up a diplomatic or military idea group (where I would probably prefer diplo, since we're ahead of time on tech there and military is still behind). If you guys want to increase our trade income, vote for trade, if you want to increase our naval power then vote for maritime, which will also help income through more light ships, if you want better armies, go for defensive.
All of these will yield far better returns on investment and be more immediately helpful to us than going for another admin group

# ? Aug 10, 2017 09:18

hashashash: Nov 2, 2016; Cure for cancer discovered!
Court physicians hate him!

Updated policies:

Lord Cyrahzax posted:

I submit the Andalusi Restoration Act:
1. Continue the war with France until we are in a position to re-annex the territories they occupied in the Fitna, unless the other powers at war with France make peace early.
2. When the war with France is concluded, annex Portugal.
3. If both of these goals are accomplished reasonably quickly, invade the Tlapanec Empire and seize as much as possible, to begin extracting resources for the reconstruction of Al-Andalus.

Lord Cyrahzax, Frionnel, unwantedplatypus, RZApublican, Snipee, the JJ.

QuoProQuid posted:

Not Such A Sick Man Anymore Act
1. France is an eternal enemy of al-Andalus. We should reunite with our lost territories and reduce France to the smallest territorial size possible, preferably by eliminating its Mediterranean coast;
2. Iberia should be united and indivisible. As soon as possible, we must conquer all territory in the Iberia region;
3. We are surrounded by enemies on all sides. We must grow the al-Andalusi Army so that it can rival any of its rivals in Europe.

QuoProQuid.

Archaeology Hat posted:

I propose the Better Guns, Better Boats, Better Life Act, mandating that Innovation be supported at every turn so that our military be supplied with the most up to date weapons.

Archaeology Hat, everydayfalls, catlord.

Rodyle posted:

Building Bridges
1. Restore our alliances with Bavaria, Provence, and Tunis
2. Select Innovation for our next idea group
3. Add more accepted cultures, starting with the largest.

Rodyle, Grizzwold, Rubix Squid, Viola the Mad, Crazycryodude.

sheep-dodger posted:

I will propose the Homeland Security Act
- develop level 24 mil tech asap
- Build max level Fortresses in Navarra, Wasqah and Jabal Tariq
- build level 2 fortresses in Evora, Qunka and Liyun and scrap the other smaller fortresses on the peninsula

sheep-dodger.

Ralepozozaxe posted:

I propose The Devilishly good deal contract
1. Trade ideas. It's half our income, so lets make more. Plus, dip points aren't as important to us right now as the other.
2. Build some barracks. More dudes is more cool.
3. Any attempts to return the state religion to Sunni Islam are to be suppressed.

Ralepozozaxe.

Talas posted:

I submit the You're Gonna Need a Bigger Fleet Act.
Step 1: Get money.
Step 2: Colonize unclaimed Pacific islands.
Step 3: Build a fleet comparable to Morocco.

Talas, paragon1, GunnerJ, Yvonmukluk, Captain Oblivious, Danny Glands, Camoes.

Technowolf posted:

I propose the It's the economy, stupid! act.
The sultan is to chose Economic as our next idea group and try to get to the idea that gives a permanent -.10 inflation reduction.

Technowolf, mcclay.

devildragon777 posted:

Going to propose the Religious Revival Act.
1: Build/Upgrade to Great Mosques wherever and whenever possible
2: Take Innovative Ideas
3: Advance Humanist Ideas as fast as possible, to reduce revolts

devildragon777, Slaan, Vinny Possum, Erwin the German.

AJ_Impy posted:

I propose the There is No God but Allah, No Prophet but Muhammad, No Faith but Islam Act.
1: Build/Upgrade to Great Mosques wherever and whenever possible.
2: Take Administrative ideas.
3: Declare the one true faith to be unified in Al-Andalus, and end the religious division once and for all. Have our scholars unite and definitively determine the doctrinal issues which threaten to tear our nation apart. Let the Sultan and the People be of one faith, one unity, one nation, together united, thus preventing even the possibility of Sunni revolts. Immediately convert back to Sunni.

_{This will work out perfectly, I'm sure.}

AJ_Impy.

# ? Aug 10, 2017 10:19

Luhood: Nov 13, 2012

As much as I love both Innovative and Defensive ideas, we're in somewhat of a pickle with both Admin and Military right now.

Ralepozozaxe posted:

I propose The Devilishly good deal contract

Thus I will endorse this proposal! Let's throw the Merchants a bone and have some money start flowing into our coffers!

# ? Aug 10, 2017 10:19

The Bold Kobold: Aug 11, 2014; Bold to the point of certain death.

Talas posted:

I submit the You're Gonna Need a Bigger Fleet Act.

Step 1: Get money.
Step 2: Colonize unclaimed Pacific islands.
Step 3: Build a fleet comparable to Morocco.

This policy has my support!

# ? Aug 10, 2017 11:42

MatchaZed: Feb 14, 2010; We Can Do It!

Talas posted:

I submit the You're Gonna Need a Bigger Fleet Act.

Step 1: Get money.
Step 2: Colonize unclaimed Pacific islands.
Step 3: Build a fleet comparable to Morocco.

EDIT: Added suggestion.

Supporting this.

Also, New Ulema, pleeeease remove the need for Innovative from your proposal, we don't have the points.

# ? Aug 10, 2017 15:58

AJ_Impy: Jun 17, 2007; SWORD OF SMATTAS. CAN YOU NOT HEAR A WORLD CRY OUT FOR JUSTICE? WHEN WILL YOU DELIVER IT?; Yam Slacker

WilliamAnderson posted:

Supporting this.

Also, New Ulema, pleeeease remove the need for Innovative from your proposal, we don't have the points.

I see it as a bulwark against going too far too fast with Humanism. If you can rustle up support for my offering, I'll accede to the modification.

# ? Aug 10, 2017 16:30

MatchaZed: Feb 14, 2010; We Can Do It!

AJ_Impy posted:

I see it as a bulwark against going too far too fast with Humanism. If you can rustle up support for my offering, I'll accede to the modification.

You want to take administrative which also won't help, plus tank our stability which also costs a ton of admin. No thanks!

# ? Aug 10, 2017 16:32

AJ_Impy: Jun 17, 2007; SWORD OF SMATTAS. CAN YOU NOT HEAR A WORLD CRY OUT FOR JUSTICE? WHEN WILL YOU DELIVER IT?; Yam Slacker

WilliamAnderson posted:

You want to take administrative which also won't help, plus tank our stability which also costs a ton of admin. No thanks!

Better we choose to do it rather than have it forced upon us. The vast majority of our population isn't going to go away.

# ? Aug 10, 2017 16:34

TyrsHTML: May 13, 2004

Talas posted:

I submit the You're Gonna Need a Bigger Fleet Act.

Step 1: Get money.
Step 2: Colonize unclaimed Pacific islands.
Step 3: Build a fleet comparable to Morocco.

EDIT: Added suggestion.

Supporting this

# ? Aug 10, 2017 18:43

Soup du Jour: Sep 8, 2011; I always knew I'd die with a headache.

Talas posted:

I submit the You're Gonna Need a Bigger Fleet Act.

Step 1: Get money.
Step 2: Colonize unclaimed Pacific islands.
Step 3: Build a fleet comparable to Morocco.

EDIT: Added suggestion.

Supporting. I'd prefer we were expanding in the New World, but getting some footholds in the Pacific's a good idea too.

# ? Aug 10, 2017 18:43

gbuchold: Oct 7, 2007; We feel free because we lack the very language to articulate our unfreedom.; Pillbug

AJ_Impy posted:

Better we choose to do it rather than have it forced upon us. The vast majority of our population isn't going to go away.

Or you could let him use the points on Humanism that will make everybody suddenly DTF with any religion and the problem washes away like the waves

e: I guess we already have the heresy tolerance bonus, maybe it's a non-issue anyway. What does our Religion tab look like? If we have positive tolerance for Sunni then your worries about revolts are ill-founded, and if we don't we probably never will.

e2: I say "our" as if I'm not dead in a hole

gbuchold fucked around with this message at 18:57 on Aug 10, 2017

# ? Aug 10, 2017 18:52

Crazycryodude: Aug 15, 2015; Lets get our X tons of Duranium back!

....Is that still a valid thing to jingoistically blow out of proportion?

Yeah finishing out the Humanism group (or really just getting to Humanist Tolerance) basically means we get to ignore religion as a destabilizing element for the rest of the game which is why I wanted to do it a century ago. And as others have mentioned, finishing out the group gives us a huge discount on other ideas, which means filling out Offensive and whatever we pick as our next one goes quite a bit faster.

# ? Aug 10, 2017 18:56

AJ_Impy: Jun 17, 2007; SWORD OF SMATTAS. CAN YOU NOT HEAR A WORLD CRY OUT FOR JUSTICE? WHEN WILL YOU DELIVER IT?; Yam Slacker

Crazycryodude posted:

we get to ignore religion as a destabilizing element for the rest of the game

Good luck with that.

# ? Aug 10, 2017 19:47

Ralepozozaxe: Sep 6, 2010; A Veritable Smorgasbord!

AJ_Impy posted:

Good luck with that.

You religious fanatics will be dealt with soon enough. Your kind foils all my pla, we, I mean, causes us good folks all kinds of trouble.

# ? Aug 10, 2017 20:11

hashashash: Nov 2, 2016; Cure for cancer discovered!
Court physicians hate him!

Policy session closed! :siren:

Passed legislation are the Andalusi Restoration Act and the Building Bridges Act by the Taifas, the You're Gonna Need a Bigger Fleet Act by the Merchants, and the Religious Revival Act by the Ulema. All of these policies (except the Building Bridges Act) look like they're going to involve spending a lot of money, which'll be tricky since we're so heavily in debt, but I'll see what I can do.

Also, from the next session onwards each policy may only have two directives.

Lord Cyrahzax posted:

I submit the Andalusi Restoration Act:
1. Continue the war with France until we are in a position to re-annex the territories they occupied in the Fitna, unless the other powers at war with France make peace early.
2. When the war with France is concluded, annex Portugal.
3. If both of these goals are accomplished reasonably quickly, invade the Tlapanec Empire and seize as much as possible, to begin extracting resources for the reconstruction of Al-Andalus.

Lord Cyrahzax, Frionnel, unwantedplatypus, RZApublican, Snipee, the JJ.

QuoProQuid posted:

Not Such A Sick Man Anymore Act
1. France is an eternal enemy of al-Andalus. We should reunite with our lost territories and reduce France to the smallest territorial size possible, preferably by eliminating its Mediterranean coast;
2. Iberia should be united and indivisible. As soon as possible, we must conquer all territory in the Iberia region;
3. We are surrounded by enemies on all sides. We must grow the al-Andalusi Army so that it can rival any of its rivals in Europe.

QuoProQuid.

Archaeology Hat posted:

I propose the Better Guns, Better Boats, Better Life Act, mandating that Innovation be supported at every turn so that our military be supplied with the most up to date weapons.

Archaeology Hat, everydayfalls, catlord.

Rodyle posted:

Building Bridges
1. Restore our alliances with Bavaria, Provence, and Tunis
2. Select Innovation for our next idea group
3. Add more accepted cultures, starting with the largest.

Rodyle, Grizzwold, Rubix Squid, Viola the Mad, Crazycryodude.

sheep-dodger posted:

I will propose the Homeland Security Act
- develop level 24 mil tech asap
- Build max level Fortresses in Navarra, Wasqah and Jabal Tariq
- build level 2 fortresses in Evora, Qunka and Liyun and scrap the other smaller fortresses on the peninsula

sheep-dodger.

Ralepozozaxe posted:

I propose The Devilishly good deal contract
1. Trade ideas. It's half our income, so lets make more. Plus, dip points aren't as important to us right now as the other.
2. Build some barracks. More dudes is more cool.
3. Any attempts to return the state religion to Sunni Islam are to be suppressed.

Ralepozozaxe, Luhood.

Talas posted:

I submit the You're Gonna Need a Bigger Fleet Act.
Step 1: Get money.
Step 2: Colonize unclaimed Pacific islands.
Step 3: Build a fleet comparable to Morocco.

Talas, paragon1, GunnerJ, Yvonmukluk, Captain Oblivious, Danny Glands, Camoes, The Bold Kobold, WilliamAnderson, TyrsHTML, Soup du Jour.

Technowolf posted:

I propose the It's the economy, stupid! act.
The sultan is to chose Economic as our next idea group and try to get to the idea that gives a permanent -.10 inflation reduction.

Technowolf, mcclay.

devildragon777 posted:

Going to propose the Religious Revival Act.
1: Build/Upgrade to Great Mosques wherever and whenever possible
2: Take Innovative Ideas
3: Advance Humanist Ideas as fast as possible, to reduce revolts

devildragon777, Slaan, Vinny Possum, Erwin the German.

AJ_Impy posted:

I propose the There is No God but Allah, No Prophet but Muhammad, No Faith but Islam Act.
1: Build/Upgrade to Great Mosques wherever and whenever possible.
2: Take Administrative ideas.
3: Declare the one true faith to be unified in Al-Andalus, and end the religious division once and for all. Have our scholars unite and definitively determine the doctrinal issues which threaten to tear our nation apart. Let the Sultan and the People be of one faith, one unity, one nation, together united, thus preventing even the possibility of Sunni revolts. Immediately convert back to Sunni.

_{This will work out perfectly, I'm sure.}

AJ_Impy.

# ? Aug 10, 2017 21:00

MatchaZed: Feb 14, 2010; We Can Do It!

Whyyyy do so many different proposals include Innovative when we are about to core stuff, still haven't finished Humanist and might need stability? Goons!

# ? Aug 10, 2017 23:33

Danny Glands: Jan 26, 2013; Possible thermal failure (CPU on fire?)

We're all about the flashy stuff.

# ? Aug 10, 2017 23:40

Mountaineer: Aug 29, 2008; Imagine a rod breaking on a robot face - forever

With a unanimous vote, the Dead Faction adopts the proposal to spook the Merchants. :ghost:

# ? Aug 10, 2017 23:40

Frionnel: May 7, 2010; Friends are what make testing worth it.

What are we about to core? Did i miss us losing cores on our lost territories? Honest question.

VVV It's not really that big of a problem people are making this seem to be, just a non optimal choice at this moment. Not like the Majlis ever made non optimal choices, right? It's not like we voted for a crap idea group, Innovative is solid.

Frionnel fucked around with this message at 23:52 on Aug 10, 2017

# ? Aug 10, 2017 23:42

devildragon777: May 17, 2014; They'd be a lot more scary if they were more than an inch tall each.

Sorry! I don't think editing my proposal to some other idea group would have mattered anyways due to Building Bridges, but... :saddowns:

# ? Aug 10, 2017 23:43

AJ_Impy: Jun 17, 2007; SWORD OF SMATTAS. CAN YOU NOT HEAR A WORLD CRY OUT FOR JUSTICE? WHEN WILL YOU DELIVER IT?; Yam Slacker

Humanism involves tolerating those whom we need to convert to the one true faith after we return to it, of course.

# ? Aug 10, 2017 23:50

Dance Officer: May 4, 2017; It would be awesome if we could dance!

Frionnel posted:

What are we about to core? Did i miss us losing cores on our lost territories? Honest question.

VVV It's not really that big of a problem people are making this seem to be, just a non optimal choice at this moment. Not like the Majlis ever made non optimal choices, right? It's not like we voted for a crap idea group, Innovative is solid.

If I remember it correctly, you lose cores when rebels secede.

# ? Aug 11, 2017 00:58

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# ? May 18, 2024 02:37

Danny Glands: Jan 26, 2013; Possible thermal failure (CPU on fire?)

We spend too much time bickering about the true religion that we ignore the French dogs at our door or the Moroccan vultures in the new world. Our foes anticipate the weakness conflict from within will cause. If the pillars of our house do not stand as one, the structure becomes naught but rubble.

# ? Aug 11, 2017 01:05

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