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I went to a karomatherapist once - the people who let you recover smells from your past lives. I don't recommend it.
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Aug 8, 2017 23:36
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HEY GAIL posted:somewhere in the afterlife, tilly just flipped the gently caress out and isn't sure why tilly is pretty much the only guy of the thirty years war that i actually like Cythereal posted:This says something about us as a species, but I'm not entirely sure what. westworld will be real
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Aug 8, 2017 23:48
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Numerical Anxiety posted:I went to a karomatherapist once - the people who let you recover smells from your past lives. I don't recommend it. i just need you to know this joke needed more workshopping
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Aug 8, 2017 23:57
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StashAugustine posted:tilly is pretty much the only guy of the thirty years war that i actually like They really should tell those robots they're actors in a theme park. No need to make it weird by keeping that fact from them. They'd still be perfect actors.
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Aug 9, 2017 01:12
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Cythereal posted:This says something about us as a species, but I'm not entirely sure what.
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Aug 9, 2017 04:11
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You know, for a church supposedly being persecuted as gently caress, you guys are making a lot of fun of my personal gnosis  In other news, in my long path back to non-disabled(  ) society, I started school today, and my first class the Danish version of Religion 101! Our teacher is a religious historian who thinks folk religionism is hella cool, so we'll get as much of it she's allowed to squeeze into the mandatory curriculum 
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Aug 10, 2017 10:32
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A personal gnosis worthy of the name would, by its very nature, be incommunicable. So if anything, the posts you refer to are rather confirming it.
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Aug 10, 2017 18:42
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Tias posted:You know, for a church supposedly being persecuted as gently caress, you guys are making a lot of fun of my personal gnosis Just a personal observation as a middle-class dude in Germany, but I have the impression that even many members of institutionalized western religions have trouble coming to terms with and communicating about mystical experiences. Anecdote: I was participating at a contemplation workshop at a local monastery and in the introduction, several participants talked about having personal experiences with saints, angels, even Mary herself - most other participants (me included) were not really sure how to deal with this info and things were a little awkward for a minute. And that was in a monastery! Talking about spiritual gnosis outside of such a setting is pretty much impossible in (German)urban middleclass society, even among close friends - mechanistic materialism is the dominant model and everybody has to prove their rationality - or at least that the're no candidates for the loony bin. SavageGentleman fucked around with this message at 19:16 on Aug 10, 2017 |
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Aug 10, 2017 19:06
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SavageGentleman posted:Talking about spiritual gnosis outside of such a setting is pretty much impossible in (German)urban middleclass society, even among close friends - mechanistic materialism is the dominant model and everybody has to prove their rationality - or at least that the're no candidates for the loony bin. I suppose it's because if we did all see the world through that particular vein we'd end up going completly mental anyway.
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Aug 10, 2017 19:33
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Josef bugman posted:I suppose it's because if we did all see the world through that particular vein we'd end up going completly mental anyway. Yeah, the basic problem of any moment of personal gnosis is that it's almost impossible to verify using outside sources. I'm not saying every person who claims to have received divince communication is right: most people might be making it up or be led to that point by their own wishes or even some mental issues - but what about those that aren't? Telling them that they're insane or shaming them into silence is a pretty unfair move by Western society.
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Aug 10, 2017 19:45
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While I'm biased towards materialism and against spiritual revelation for obvious reasons, consider how hard it is to find common cultural ground now, and then imagine what it would be like in a society that emphasized incommunicable personal experiences and still had the same political and social divisions that we do.
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Aug 10, 2017 19:50
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Didn't Max Weber have a sociological argument about this stuff, under the heading of the prophetic? It's not just our (post-)industrial societies that have certain aversions to mysticism. Even in cultures where it is socially licensed, it tends to be cordoned off and made the province of a restricted group of individuals. Precisely because you don't want your social order to be at the mercy of anyone who has a funny dream where god apparently talks to them, although at the same time one wants to have some kind of outlet for the creative forces that prophets may bring with them.
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Aug 10, 2017 19:54
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It's the same in the US (unless you hang out with a bunch of Charismatics/New Age hippies, I guess.) Nobody really wants to be the first to start talking about spiritual experiences, but if one person in a group opens up about his or hers you'll often find that other people start sharing what they have personally experienced. People having spiritual experiences seems to be a more common thing than you'd think; it's just that nobody really opens up about it since it's considered weird by modern standards and people are afraid of coming across as a lunatic. e: not sure about the Weber connection, but modern anthropologists who study folk religions tend to view shamanism as a socially acceptable vocation for people who don't fit into society otherwise. Not sure that's particularly correct, since they actually wield a lot of power in the community. But yeah generally it's cordoned off as being something only a select few can do, although there are a few exceptions. The folk religion of Mayotte had channeling ancestor spirits as its main spiritual practice; when they converted to Islam they just started channeling djinns instead. Something like 25% of the adult population there have reported entering into a trance and acting as a medium for a djinn. The Phlegmatist fucked around with this message at 20:14 on Aug 10, 2017 |
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Aug 10, 2017 19:56
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And then you have people like me, who have never had any sort of spiritual or mystical experience and can't imagine what that's like. I believe in spite of my thoughts, feelings, and experiences, not because of them.
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Aug 10, 2017 20:01
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Catholic and Orthodox spiritual writers frequently recommend extreme skepticism toward visions. IIRC, St. Silouan blamed one for keeping him away from real grace for a long time.
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Aug 10, 2017 20:13
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Cythereal posted:And then you have people like me, who have never had any sort of spiritual or mystical experience and can't imagine what that's like. I believe in spite of my thoughts, feelings, and experiences, not because of them. I'm in full agreement with you on this one. I never understood why there's such hostility to the credo quia absurdum - the fact that it's a sketchy citation only makes it all the more poignant.
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Aug 10, 2017 20:28
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Tias posted:You know, for a church supposedly being persecuted as gently caress, you guys are making a lot of fun of my personal gnosis I have no issue with what you've experienced. No matter what I or anyone else believes or tells you, you're the only one who's going to live with what you've seen (or not seen, for the rest of us). I hope it leads you well. I hope it leads you always to a better, more loving tomorrow.
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Aug 11, 2017 02:27
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Numerical Anxiety posted:I'm in full agreement with you on this one. I never understood why there's such hostility to the credo quia absurdum - the fact that it's a sketchy citation only makes it all the more poignant. Doesn't help that mystical/spiritual experiences tend to not be shared things and can't be proven empirically. I say that if you do have such experiences, good for you. But it's not something I've ever felt and I personally put no stock in.
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Aug 11, 2017 02:57
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I also have never had a supernatural experience like witnessing a character from the Bible apart from normal imagination, a day dream. Half the time they're saying something reasonable, half the time they're shitposting. But at the same time. spirituality is an unapologetically subjective phenomenon. And if you want to connect with the spirit of another, then it's not just about what you put stock in. It's even more about what they put stock in.
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Aug 11, 2017 04:42
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Most of my spiritual experiences are nature-related. I dig a fancy liturgy with incense, candles, chanting, all that good stuff. But what is really profound for me is going camping in the mountains or similar. Staring at the stars, camaraderie over a camp fire, solitude, majestic views. There's a good chance I move back to the plains to teach at a tribal college in the next couple of weeks. It'd be a bit of a messy transition for me and my current roommate, I'd appreciate any prayers. I might stay in the Los Angeles area, or I might well be back on a reservation on the plains in a few weeks. Pellisworth fucked around with this message at 05:06 on Aug 11, 2017 |
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Aug 11, 2017 05:04
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Numerical Anxiety posted:A personal gnosis worthy of the name would, by its very nature, be incommunicable. So if anything, the posts you refer to are rather confirming it. If that's what you believe, I have some mindblowing news for you about the bible! all accounts from the prophets are tales of personal gnosis, and they or others were evidently able to communicate it in a manner you can understand.  Cythereal posted:And then you have people like me, who have never had any sort of spiritual or mystical experience and can't imagine what that's like. I believe in spite of my thoughts, feelings, and experiences, not because of them. I think a lot of people would argue that this is exactly what makes you have faith and a spiritual lifestyle. Before learning shamanism, I never had a 'burning bush' moment, but I still believed because I thought and felt it was right. Caufman posted:I have no issue with what you've experienced. No matter what I or anyone else believes or tells you, you're the only one who's going to live with what you've seen (or not seen, for the rest of us). I hope it leads you well. I hope it leads you always to a better, more loving tomorrow. 
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Aug 11, 2017 06:13
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Tias posted:I think a lot of people would argue that this is exactly what makes you have faith and a spiritual lifestyle. Before learning shamanism, I never had a 'burning bush' moment, but I still believed because I thought and felt it was right. Not quite what I meant. To me, all my thinking, logic, personal feelings, and experiences suggest that Christianity is bollocks and ours is a deistic universe with a distant and uncaring creator. But I don't like the idea of a heartless universe and want - even must - believe that there's some purpose to it all and all the suffering and hardship we go through, and so I choose to believe and pray each night that I press on and hope I'll someday find the path. Lord, let Your will be done. Do with me as You will. To me, the only answer to an atheistic universe is suicide because the universe is a beautiful place marred by the existence of people in all the wonder and all the horror we bring with us. I'm too much a student of history to believe humanity is innately good, or even that we do more good than bad.
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Aug 11, 2017 14:35
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HEY GAIL posted:that's protestants; the catholics goth it up with lace and candles and black silk and statues of Mary but she's crying, maybe with blood-red roses in her hands. have you seen the music video for lady gaga's "fernando"? Lady Gaga is a legit Catholic by the way, I just looked it up after "born this way" of all things made me suspicious.
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Aug 11, 2017 21:40
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pidan posted:Lady Gaga is a legit Catholic by the way, I just looked it up after "born this way" of all things made me suspicious.
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Aug 11, 2017 21:44
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HEY GAIL posted:super loving italian. just like madonna Madonna is unambiguously not Catholic though Yes I care a lot about pop musicians and their worldviews
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Aug 11, 2017 22:07
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pidan posted:Madonna is unambiguously not Catholic though
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Aug 11, 2017 22:13
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Our organist played some Gaga as the voluntary at the end of mass Sunday 
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Aug 12, 2017 00:44
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that's a brave gay organist
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Aug 12, 2017 02:56
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I'm still surprised Catholics have almost no representation in contemporary Christian music. Modern Catholic hymns are generally pretty bad too although there are some I really like. It's like y'all decided the Exsultet was good enough and stopped making music after that.Senju Kannon posted:that's a brave gay organist but you repeat yourself The music director for my parish (who does basically everything) is a gay man who loves black gospel and is kinda mad the rector won't let him move the Hammond Organ we have in the chapel (where Adoration and the TLM are held) into the narthex of the main church building. e: at least the organist wasn't a goon. The Phlegmatist fucked around with this message at 04:49 on Aug 12, 2017 |
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Aug 12, 2017 04:10
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The catholics are too smart to make CCM
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Aug 12, 2017 05:47
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Smoking Crow posted:The catholics are too smart to make CCM We had to sing a lot of this guy in campus choir.
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Aug 12, 2017 06:01
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Anathema
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Aug 12, 2017 06:07
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Keromaru5 posted:Catholic and Orthodox spiritual writers frequently recommend extreme skepticism toward visions. IIRC, St. Silouan blamed one for keeping him away from real grace for a long time. I can't remember who it was about but there was some saint who received a vision of the Theotokos, who told him God had chosen him for greatness or some such, and he suggested they say the Jesus prayer in thanks. The demon couldn't, of course, and broke its disguise and retreated
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Aug 12, 2017 12:17
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The Phlegmatist posted:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSCUhqsy4Nk
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Aug 12, 2017 17:38
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The Phlegmatist posted:It's like y'all decided the Exsultet was good enough and stopped making music after that. to be fair that is the correct opinion b/c the Exsultet owns
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Aug 12, 2017 19:05
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Smoking Crow posted:The catholics are too smart to make CCM It's a bit older, but Let It Be is pretty aces.
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Aug 12, 2017 23:00
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Bel_Canto posted:to be fair that is the correct opinion b/c the Exsultet owns yeah it is pretty awesome calvinists writing 18th century hymns: "did we remember to cram penal substitutionary atonement in there somehow" catholics writing the exsultet: "I;m thinking about thos Bees"
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Aug 13, 2017 00:29
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Would this be a good place to talk about my recent issues with doubt? Or would that be weird?
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Aug 13, 2017 21:54
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Hiro Protagonist posted:Would this be a good place to talk about my recent issues with doubt? Or would that be weird? Hell no, doubt and faith are pretty much two sides of the same coin. Even St Theresa of Calcutta spent years in deep and miserable worry and doubt where she wanted to believe and couldn't, just remember that and 
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Aug 13, 2017 22:02
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Hiro Protagonist posted:Would this be a good place to talk about my recent issues with doubt? Or would that be weird? I doubt my faith all the time. You're in good company.
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Aug 13, 2017 22:03
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