Comrade Gorbash posted:What you're calling too far, I'm calling the minimum distance they need to cover. They already have a FATE adaptation for rules lite.
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# ? Aug 11, 2017 01:39 |
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# ? Jun 8, 2024 06:22 |
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I'm not asking rules lite, I'm asking rules less density then the Earth itself.
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# ? Aug 11, 2017 01:58 |
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Kommando posted:They already have a FATE adaptation for rules lite. Turns out there's a vast middle ground between "FATE" and "basically Shadowrun, only with no dicepools but even more tedious chargen." Also lol at the idea that 4E isn't a crunchy game.
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# ? Aug 11, 2017 02:08 |
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ProfessorCirno posted:I'm not asking rules lite, I'm asking rules less density then the Earth itself.
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# ? Aug 11, 2017 02:52 |
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Even outside of chargen I found parts of EP's system unnecessarily crufty. What are there, like six separate combat skills for using ranged weapons? Seven if you count thrown weapons?
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# ? Aug 11, 2017 03:12 |
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Just to throw the topic back to the Ultimates for a moment here, something that bugs me about the whole discussion is that the Ultimates aren't fascists. Chauvinists, certainly, but fascism has a meaning that doesn't apply to them. The only similarities are at the surface level, in their militarism, chauvinism, and belief in autarky. Philosophically, though, the Ultimates are radical individualists and egoists, as well as being nihilists; things that are inimical to fascist ideals of the sublimation of the individual to some greater whole or purpose. Fascists tend to worship the sacrifice of the individual, especially soldiers, to the whole, something that is incompatible with the mainstream Ultimate philosophy of rational self-interest. Ultimates see the individual as the ultimate worthy goal; as the only possible thing of having any value. Fascists see the individual as worthless except in the context of the greater whole. The Jovians are fascists. Textbook fascists, really; idolizing some greater in-group (humanity) that must be defended against an out-group (everyone else), simultaneously declaring that in-group superior and yet that out-group as an apocalyptic threat. Using that out-group to justify seizures of power by the state, all in the name of security; using institutional power to discriminate against those who do not fit the mold of society's ideal citizen. None of this is to come down on the issue one way or the other. I think the Ultimates should stay for the same reasons the Jovians should: They are an understandable reaction to the horrors of the Fall and make the setting more interesting and colourful with the kinds of questions it asks. That said, the Ultimates are bigoted chauvinist bullies, who often enjoy looking down on those they consider inferior. That's the part that gets uncomfortably close to reality for some. You don't have to be a fascist to wear jackboots.
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# ? Aug 11, 2017 04:08 |
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Kai Tave posted:Even outside of chargen I found parts of EP's system unnecessarily crufty. What are there, like six separate combat skills for using ranged weapons? Seven if you count thrown weapons? If we really want to go down this rabbit hole, how about the fact that there are language skills. You start with one at 90% but you have a muse that can translate every language anyway. What's the loving point? If my muse can translate every language, why the gently caress do I have a language skill? And why the gently caress isn't it at a hundred percent if I have a universal translator?
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# ? Aug 11, 2017 04:28 |
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Language skills were, funny enough, way more forgivable because they were "knowledge skills," not "active skills." Or...whatever denotation EP gave them.
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# ? Aug 11, 2017 05:15 |
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ProfessorCirno posted:Language skills were, funny enough, way more forgivable because they were "knowledge skills," not "active skills." Or...whatever denotation EP gave them. It's still a fair point that it's a pretty odd decision to make something like that a skill you have to purchase with chargen currency when everybody has a highly sophisticated personal translator in their brains for free simply as part of existing. Of course the GM can contrive reasons to deprive you of your Muse at a crucial moment when you really need to know what someone is saying in Lunar Mandarin or whatever but I feel like there's probably a more elegant way to handle it.
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# ? Aug 11, 2017 05:32 |
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Oh, I'm not saying it was a GOOD idea, hahahaha. Just that they managed to mitigate their bad idea, at least a little, in that case.
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# ? Aug 11, 2017 05:42 |
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ProfessorCirno posted:Oh, I'm not saying it was a GOOD idea, hahahaha. Just that they managed to mitigate their bad idea, at least a little, in that case. Right, in some games I actually think an active skill/knowledge skill split is a good thing because it gives everybody the resources to make their characters more well-rounded even if in practice a separate knowledge skill pool often becomes a roundabout way of simply writing a few of your character's hobbies and interests down on the sheet. But when you have an in-game conceit that everybody has Google Hyper-Translate installed in their head it becomes a lot sillier to not look at the skill list and ask yourself if you really need language skills, but it's the sort of unexamined blind spot I can imagine arising when you're a bunch of guys with a background in crunchy, crufty RPGs sitting down to make another crunchy, crufty RPG. Crunch is good, but it should serve a purpose other than to simply pad out pages.
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# ? Aug 11, 2017 07:07 |
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*cackles madly* https://www.technologyreview.com/s/608596/scientists-hack-a-computer-using-dna/ quote:Scientists Hack a Computer Using DNA
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# ? Aug 11, 2017 21:36 |
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Some NEW THING OR OTHER has been put up: http://eclipsephase.com/qsr (Quick Start Rules + Scenario, Second Edition.) edit - holy poo poo that starting Firewall team of characters edit 2 - "We're sending you to investigate your own disappearance." I love this scenario so far. Yoshimo fucked around with this message at 00:41 on Sep 2, 2017 |
# ? Sep 2, 2017 00:10 |
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Yoshimo posted:edit 2 - "We're sending you to investigate your own disappearance." I love this scenario so far. It's SUCH A GOOD HOOK!
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# ? Sep 2, 2017 06:47 |
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Man that new layout and art is pretty lovely too.
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# ? Sep 2, 2017 18:48 |
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Axelgear posted:None of this is to come down on the issue one way or the other. I think the Ultimates should stay for the same reasons the Jovians should: They are an understandable reaction to the horrors of the Fall and make the setting more interesting and colourful with the kinds of questions it asks. That said, the Ultimates are bigoted chauvinist bullies, who often enjoy looking down on those they consider inferior. That's the part that gets uncomfortably close to reality for some. You don't have to be a fascist to wear jackboots. The heart of it is that the Jovans and Ultimates BOTH were a bit on the nose, without realizing it, about the setting as a whole. They both call too much attention to the contrarian position that Humanity hosed the Earth, hosed itself and is unraveling slowly while trying to pretend that Everything Is Fine In Our Sexy Six Dicked Cyber Baboon Future. The Jovans can be looked down on because they're living in tin cans and die from radiation. The Ultimates take the tools of the setting and go to war against the idea that Humanity is Just Fine. What if, just what if, resleeving is suicide and you are just a replica of a person long dead? What if the real you is sitting in a vat somewhere in a Titan facility on the rear end end of the galaxy, living through some horrible cybernetic punishment straight out of a Harlan Ellison fever dream? How long before some anarchist accidentally creates a new Seed AI and this time it fucks everyone forever? Gearhead fucked around with this message at 20:25 on Oct 2, 2017 |
# ? Oct 2, 2017 20:22 |
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Yeah I love that kind of stuff about the game - like, because so many people in the setting has resleeved at some point, there's a huge social incentive to argue that resleeving is totally okay. If you don't think it's okay, you're living in a horror-world society and nobody around you WANTS to believe that, it's great.
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# ? Oct 2, 2017 21:59 |
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Well yeah, there's only an extremely small number of people who haven't resleeved at all in setting. So if you're arguing some consciousness thing everybody you're arguing with is already dead and you're dealing with their copies from your viewpoint, which is actually a real mental illness (capgras syndrome) if you believe that so good luck convincing people you're not crazy.
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# ? Oct 2, 2017 22:31 |
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Kwyndig posted:Well yeah, there's only an extremely small number of people who haven't resleeved at all in setting. So if you're arguing some consciousness thing everybody you're arguing with is already dead and you're dealing with their copies from your viewpoint, which is actually a real mental illness (capgras syndrome) if you believe that so good luck convincing people you're not crazy. Unless you're from Jupiter, and 'everyone else' is the rest of the solar system that aren't the horrible, undying oligarchs running the PC behind the scenes. In which case that's reality.
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# ? Oct 2, 2017 23:38 |
Kwyndig posted:capgras syndrome gently caress me that's terrifying
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# ? Oct 2, 2017 23:45 |
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Hexenritter posted:gently caress me that's terrifying Imagine that turned inwards, that's failing an Alienation roll right there.
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# ? Oct 3, 2017 00:01 |
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Gearhead posted:Imagine that turned inwards, that's failing an Alienation roll right there. Oh, you mean the Cotard Delusion (where you think you're dead). That would be a good result of a failed roll, yeah.
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# ? Oct 3, 2017 00:05 |
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Kwyndig posted:Oh, you mean the Cotard Delusion (where you think you're dead). That would be a good result of a failed roll, yeah. The human mind is so wonderfully hosed sometimes.
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# ? Oct 3, 2017 00:08 |
Yeah I've heard about the Cotard Delusion before, and that is proper hosed. Excuse me while I stare at Kwyndig's avatar for ten minutes to make myself feel better.
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# ? Oct 3, 2017 00:19 |
RPPR have done an actual play of second Ed EP.
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# ? Oct 26, 2017 18:41 |
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Good article in Nature today about AI, brain-computer interfaces, individual privacy and identity. Useful fodder for Eclipse Phase adventures. Four ethical priorities for neurotechnologies and AI https://www.nature.com/news/four-et...mpaign=20171109 quote:08 November 2017
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# ? Nov 10, 2017 02:18 |
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If Jovians eschew psychosurgery, they just might turn to cybernetic brain implants to control their mood like this one being tested by DARPA in humans right now. This also brings up questions of "what would a society look like if the government could monitor your mood in realtime with AI". All good fodder for speculative Eclipse Phase adventures. AI-controlled brain implants for mood disorders tested in people https://www.nature.com/news/ai-cont...mpaign=20171123 quote:Researchers funded by the US military are developing appliances to record neural activity and automatically stimulate the brain to treat mental illness.
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# ? Nov 24, 2017 02:21 |
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Once again, Kojima warned us.
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# ? Nov 30, 2017 20:00 |
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After re-reading all of Battle Angel Alita last week, I wanna give Eclipse Phase another chance. I feel like, while the setting details differ, both are similar in their idea of a failed singularity.
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# ? Dec 14, 2017 21:03 |
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At this point if I want to introduce EP to my gaming group, is it best to just wait for 2e or should I get cracking with the 1e books just now?
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# ? Dec 30, 2017 03:47 |
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Yoshimo posted:At this point if I want to introduce EP to my gaming group, is it best to just wait for 2e or should I get cracking with the 1e books just now? I'd say wait for 2e
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# ? Dec 30, 2017 04:34 |
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2e would be around five million times easier to introduce to a group than 1e would, because the edition shift from "character creation takes like 12 hours for your first character ever" to "character creation takes like 20 minutes" goes down way smoother. 2e cuts away enough of the jank so far from what I've seen of it (and I'm writing a full adventure for it, so I've seen quite a lot,) that it'll be a much more streamlined game while still keeping to being a relatively robust system.
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# ? Dec 30, 2017 19:34 |
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Yea if they've played before I'd say gently caress it but with character creation going from a GURPS level slog to a fast flowchart like system might as well just wait rather than forcing them to go through that annoying system only to have a better one come... soon? When IS 2e slated to drop, again, anyway?
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# ? Dec 30, 2017 20:48 |
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Do people just hate the package system from Transhuman or whatever? That was a good way to get a pretty believable character pretty quickly. Always worked fine for me.
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# ? Dec 31, 2017 02:17 |
Lord_Hambrose posted:Do people just hate the package system from Transhuman or whatever? That was a good way to get a pretty believable character pretty quickly. Yeah I don't know what's with all the crying. I never had an issue getting players to make characters and the transhuman systems made it even easier. I guess all the crunchy game lovers just never comment about it but the haters complain. Squeaky wheel.
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# ? Dec 31, 2017 02:24 |
Btw I'm at a Japanese street food place and they have "Takko salad".
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# ? Dec 31, 2017 02:27 |
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Kommando posted:Yeah I don't know what's with all the crying. I never had an issue getting players to make characters and the transhuman systems made it even easier. I like crunchy games but Eclipse Phase front-loads all the crunch into chargen, possibly one of the least interesting parts of a game, while the actual gameplay is just your bog-standard percentile system with six separate skills for Shoot Future Guns for some reason. It is absolutely unnecessarily tedious to make characters in Eclipse Phase, and the payoff in terms of actual play once the dice hit the table isn't worth the slog imo.
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# ? Dec 31, 2017 08:39 |
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yep. it's kind of a poop system so anything that makes it better is worth waiting for imo.
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# ? Dec 31, 2017 11:28 |
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Is there any way to pre-order 2e at this point? If nothing else it would be good to get the schedule updates.
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# ? Feb 10, 2018 19:48 |
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# ? Jun 8, 2024 06:22 |
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btw Altered Carbon is on Netflix and is obviously Eclipse Phase as gently caress
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# ? Feb 12, 2018 15:03 |