DSA: our brake light guy got arrested for beating his wife

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > C-SPAM > DSA: our brake light guy got arrested for beating his wife

Pizza Segregationist: Jul 18, 2006

jarofpiss posted:

im still trying to get houston to release a statement that we support his resignation so he can focus his energies on running for governor

I'm a fan of this idea

# ? Aug 11, 2017 19:25

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# ? Jun 9, 2024 18:54

Dr. Arbitrary: Mar 15, 2006; Bleak Gremlin

MrWilderheap posted:

I know that "party newspaper" is kind of a meme at this point but this is a situation where having a journalist dedicated to unbiased coverage would be incredibly helpful. Not only for getting out accurate information about incidents like this after the fact, but having someone to vet candidates and report findings before elections (instead of relying on self-criticism) could help prevent something like this in the first place!

I think this is really the way to go. We're not in uncharted territory, there are practices that we can learn from in established organizations. Like, do we do background checks on these candidates to make sure we aren't electing someone with a criminal record and only finding out after the fact? Like, nobody is gonna care if someone did time for possession, but what if someone hurt some kids or something.

Earlier in the thread there was discussions about how to have thriving local meetings, and childcare was mentioned with the caveat that you need to run a background check on the person taking care of the kids. We ought to at least hold a similar standard to leadership.

We don't even need an unbiased panel, let the angriest craziest people try to dig up whatever they can on the candidates they hate the most, because they'll be doing it anyways after the election if the candidates win.

# ? Aug 11, 2017 19:39

platzapS: Aug 4, 2007

platzapS posted:

[why didn't we break with Democrats?]

R. Guyovich posted:

either the dsa isn't radical enough for you right now and they will be later, or they will never be. up to you whether you wanna stick it out imo

Oh I'm in this poo poo for the long haul, it just seemed incongruent with the overwhelming support for (IMO) more radical stuff like prison abolition, leaving the SI, and endorsing BDS.

I feel very strongly that the Democratic Socialists of America should not endorse capitalist politicians on any level, regardless of how cool they are. By all means vote for them/campaign for them on a private basis, but to endorse a non-socialist is to confuse new members and the public as to what socialism is. It also reduces our leverage in the future, because politicians who want our endorsement will be less likely to come out as socialists if they can get our endorsement without doing so.

platzapS has issued a correction as of 19:42 on Aug 11, 2017

# ? Aug 11, 2017 19:40

Pizza Segregationist: Jul 18, 2006

Dr. Arbitrary posted:

We don't even need an unbiased panel, let the angriest craziest people try to dig up whatever they can on the candidates they hate the most, because they'll be doing it anyways after the election if the candidates win.

Yeah for sure. Having an adversarial media is good for politics.

# ? Aug 11, 2017 19:45

DAD LOST MY IPOD: Feb 3, 2012; Fats Dominar is on the case

I am ok with the DSA 1) being a multi tendency organization and 2) not centering the most radical tendencies, both as a tactical consideration and simply because by definition the more moderate (within the context of the org) tendencies have broader support.

# ? Aug 11, 2017 19:50

platzapS: Aug 4, 2007

DAD LOST MY IPOD posted:

I am ok with the DSA 1) being a multi tendency organization and 2) not centering the most radical tendencies, both as a tactical consideration and simply because by definition the more moderate (within the context of the org) tendencies have broader support.

What in particular are you responding to here?

# ? Aug 11, 2017 19:55

Pizza Segregationist: Jul 18, 2006

jarofpiss posted:

heard rumors of southern caucus working on taking down confederate statues which would be a real good campaign

Every confederate statue should be replaced with one of Malcom X imho

# ? Aug 11, 2017 20:10

rudecyrus: Nov 6, 2009; fuck you trolls

I've changed my mind. I hope Danny stays on the NPC and is perpetually mad.

# ? Aug 11, 2017 20:20

Tricky Dick Nixon: Jul 26, 2010; by Nyc_Tattoo

DSA's picking up some Dannymentum now.

Timothy Sears posted:

Comrades,

This Statement from the DSA NPC interim steering committee (below) is outrageous.

DSA has no established standards for mandatory disclosure by candidates. The organization has never required any specific information to be disclosed in order to qualify as a candidate for the National Political Committee.

Yet the interim steering committee is now effectively imposing a vague, retroactive requirement that candidates must have disclosed anything about their past employment (or presumably other past associations) that some DSA members might find objectionable, whether or not the candidate anticipated such objections. This new rule is not only enacted retroactively, it is so vague as to be impossible for candidates to comply.

Danny Fetonte was democratically elected to the NPC, fair and square, under the rules that existed at the time the election was held. Any effort to remove him from the NPC on the basis of a retroactively-imposed disclosure requirement is utterly illegitimate.

Every statement Danny made in connection with his candidacy was truthful. To assert that Danny has failed to be "forthright and honest" because he did not specifically mention something he was under no obligation to mention is preposterous.

The retroactive imposition of ex post facto rules, thereby depriving persons of even the opportunity to comply, is a fundamental denial of due process. That's why the U.S. constitution (for all its many flaws) specifically prohibits such actions (United States Constitution, Article I, Section 9, Clause 3 : "No Bill of Attainder or ex post facto law shall be passed."). The prohibition on ex post facto laws was a major advance for human freedom in the late 18th century; we have a right to expect the leadership of a democratic socialist organization to at least meet the standard set by America's founding slaveholders.

The only undemocratic act in this whole affair is the interim steering committee's retroactive imposition of a new and unprecedented disclosure requirement for candidates after the election has already been concluded.

In their statement issued on August 8, 2017, the members of the interim steering committee promised that they would act in a manner that "emphasizes due process" and would "approach difficult questions in a fair, comradely and thoughtful manner." They have betrayed those promises.

For this betrayal, it is the members of the interim steering committee -- not Danny Fetonte -- who should consider resigning.

In solidarity,
Timothy Sears
Seattle DSA

# ? Aug 11, 2017 20:22

surfacelevelspeck: Oct 1, 2008; communism's sleepiest soldier

MrWilderheap posted:

Every confederate statue should be replaced with one of Malcom X imho

# ? Aug 11, 2017 20:23

The Dipshit: Dec 21, 2005; by FactsAreUseless

MrWilderheap posted:

Every confederate statue should be replaced with one of Malcom X imho

# ? Aug 11, 2017 20:23

jarofpiss: May 16, 2009

fuckin a this is gonna rule

# ? Aug 11, 2017 20:23

jarofpiss: May 16, 2009

npc compared to slaveholders dsa is LIT

# ? Aug 11, 2017 20:24

Hulk Krogan: Mar 25, 2005

What kind of communist are you? A maoist? Marxist-Lenisist?

"I'm a Fetontist"

# ? Aug 11, 2017 20:24

Ruzihm: Aug 11, 2010; Group up and push mid, proletariat!

Tricky Dick Nixon posted:

DSA's picking up some Dannymentum now.

uphold bordigism-npcism

# ? Aug 11, 2017 20:25

Sheng-Ji Yang: Mar 5, 2014

with that statement, danny finally replaced nick mullen as the eternal dsa god king

# ? Aug 11, 2017 20:25

rudecyrus: Nov 6, 2009; fuck you trolls

Replace Bernie memes with Danny memes.

# ? Aug 11, 2017 20:25

Tricky Dick Nixon: Jul 26, 2010; by Nyc_Tattoo

jarofpiss posted:

npc compared to slaveholders dsa is LIT

# ? Aug 11, 2017 20:25

BrutalistMcDonalds: Oct 4, 2012; Lipstick Apathy

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JauB3k4-tZQ

# ? Aug 11, 2017 20:26

Sheng-Ji Yang: Mar 5, 2014

also as a texan i love him now for standing up for us against the drat yankees

# ? Aug 11, 2017 20:27

the bitcoin of weed: Nov 1, 2014

jarofpiss posted:

npc compared to slaveholders dsa is LIT

NPC officially declared worse than slaveholders

They oughta charge admission for this poo poo

# ? Aug 11, 2017 20:29

Agean90: Jun 28, 2008

Every time it looks like its about to die down and come to a conclusion someone opens up and it kicks back into gear :allears:

# ? Aug 11, 2017 20:30

jarofpiss: May 16, 2009

it's so good it's so drat good

# ? Aug 11, 2017 20:31

ThndrShk2k: Nov 3, 2009; by Nyc_Tattoo; Bread Liar

Tricky Dick Nixon posted:

DSA's picking up some Dannymentum now.

Owns hardcore

# ? Aug 11, 2017 20:32

Taintrunner: Apr 10, 2017; by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

Hulk Krogan posted:

In fairness it does seem kind of lovely and short-sighted for everybody to put out official statements claiming he intentionally obscured his past before any kind of due process took place.

seconding this. When you have the party voting to stay working with the Democrats (a pro-cop, militarist organization complacent with the deaths and oppression of people of color worldwide a-plenty) and rejecting the push for a party outside their constraints I don't think it's fair to at the same time permit a sort of bizarro witch-hunt style of party running. danny is not a cop and never has been one, and his work has, going off of jarofpiss' posts, been working to achieve the best outcome possible with the tools at his disposal. I think he's been unfairly slighted by people who quite simply do not have the same goals as what the DSA has voted on at their convention. If you're looking to abolish the police you're... not going to achieve that working with or within the Democrats, a bi-coastal fringe party actively hostile to anyone that isn't for calmly licking the boots of wealth hoarding fascist pricks

I think Danny is right to be upset and I don't think it's fair that we're holding our organization to the whims of anonymous, extremely online people who probably don't even realize how twitter as a gamified structure affects their thought process and the greater discourse. we have a whole generation of young people who don't know poo poo about unions, which is not their fault, but do know how to go off to the races and attack someone's character and background without any hesitation nor consequences if they get poo poo wrong. yeah his statement was a bit of a blowup but I also think we have to give people some breathing room when being under the crosshairs like this.

for everything jarofpiss has said, I think danny has absolutely earned his spot and there needs to be a great deal more restraint in saying dumb poo poo like "danny is actually a cop and going to turn over the members list to law enforcement and trump will moab us all" because someone with decades of labor organizing experience in texas isn't sufficiently removed from the act of organizing labor, and absolutely doing his best to go and make things better from a socialist perspective. this feels more and more by sheer guilt of association than an accusation of an actual crime.

put it to a vote, sure, but let's be more skeptical of jumping to the ramparts based on accusations from people held to no standard or face any consequence for getting it wrong. when one side has people like jarofpiss calmly writing everything out, giving context and taking people at face value, and the other side being ace of baes having a goddamned meltdown "he's a cop he's a cop he's a cop," I'd rather stand with the people that can keep their head on straight. This fight is a long fight that we can't let ourselves get so easily distracted from. Unless someone can prove Danny is a cop-sympathizing bootlicker, I think we can do better

Tricky Dick Nixon posted:

DSA's picking up some Dannymentum now.

this owns and I am forced to agree with this statement

# ? Aug 11, 2017 20:34

Sheng-Ji Yang: Mar 5, 2014

OUR LOCAL AUTONOMY SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED BY THE PERFIDIOUS NATIONAL *texas flag with hamemr and sickle instead of star waves over the alamo*

# ? Aug 11, 2017 20:34

Ace of Baes: Jul 7, 1977

thoise people you are getting hyped on are the old rear end harrington worshippers who sold the DSA down the river ot the dem party in the 70s btw

# ? Aug 11, 2017 20:35

Ace of Baes: Jul 7, 1977

rooting for a bunch of old white guys defending an old white guy who organizes cops lmao

# ? Aug 11, 2017 20:36

Bushiz: Sep 21, 2004; The #1 Threat to Ba Sing Se; Grimey Drawer

safely sodomized posted:

OUR LOCAL AUTONOMY SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED BY THE PERFIDIOUS NATIONAL *texas flag with hamemr and sickle instead of star waves over the alamo*

Our official statement on the matter was very nearly a Texas flag with some AK's crossed in front of it and then some text that just said "gently caress ALL Y'ALL"

# ? Aug 11, 2017 20:36

ThndrShk2k: Nov 3, 2009; by Nyc_Tattoo; Bread Liar

Ace of Baes posted:

thoise people you are getting hyped on are the old rear end harrington worshippers who sold the DSA down the river ot the dem party in the 70s btw

So they're wrong based on the merit of the words presented?
(I am assuming the Seattle DSA guy is who you are talking about)

# ? Aug 11, 2017 20:36

the bitcoin of weed: Nov 1, 2014

Ace of Baes posted:

rooting for a bunch of old white guys defending an old white guy who organizes cops lmao

if my choice is between him and the Mad Online Army of the new members page I'm picking danny

i mostly don't care what happens tho since i joined DSA to meet cool local communists

# ? Aug 11, 2017 20:37

jarofpiss: May 16, 2009

Ace of Baes posted:

rooting for a bunch of old white guys defending an old white guy who organizes cops lmao

they are our old white guys

# ? Aug 11, 2017 20:38

R. Guyovich: Dec 25, 1991

Ace of Baes posted:

thoise people you are getting hyped on are the old rear end harrington worshippers who sold the DSA down the river ot the dem party in the 70s btw

welcome to the communist party

# ? Aug 11, 2017 20:38

Ace of Baes: Jul 7, 1977

ThndrShk2k posted:

So they're wrong based on the merit of the words presented?
(I am assuming the Seattle DSA guy is who you are talking about)

the dudes on the list serv defending danny in general

theyre really bad and will kill this org to keep things they way they were when the DSA had 3,000 members and was about as far left as CPUSA

# ? Aug 11, 2017 20:39

Ace of Baes: Jul 7, 1977

R. Guyovich posted:

welcome to the communist party

they are a minority in the DSA and generally speaking most people who know who they are range from hating them to being exhausted by them, of course the DSA goon clique that formed in this thread when I wasnt paying attention are slobbering over their knobs bc why wouldnt this thread become terrible on a long enough timeline

# ? Aug 11, 2017 20:40