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I have no idea what I'm even talking about anymore. Bumping rookie salaries after X years if they are a certain tier would be my choice. A single one-time FAAB period after our online season ends (during the wildcard week or something) so people can drop the big guys, then we all bid like idiots on them too. Then there are sitll some vets, maybe some guys that got dropped came out of retirement or something and we now have Cutler and Marshawn in the rookie draft. Are they worth $20 when they likely have one year left, or do you go for the Dalvin Cook instead for $20? Decisions decisions.
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Aug 11, 2017 19:19
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I don't mind the idea of an offseason drop/add period for vets, but I'd much rather it happen after the NFL free agency period. It would really suck to drop a guy based on his situation, add another guy based on his situation, and then see both guys' situations change due to a trade, drafted rookie, etc. Mind you, some folks (spermy smurf) love that chaos and uncertainty and doubt, but I think the net result is injecting more chance and randomness into the game: and I feel like there's already gobs of chance and randomness inherent to fantasy football. I'd rather give owners more opportunities to make meaningful decisions where they can apply good (or bad) strategy and have those decisions pay off (or backfire) appropriately. That's not necessarily the consensus view, though. Spermy Smurf posted:Basically: have a third party tell us who the aggregated tier 1/2/3 guys are. Bump salaries accordingly based on the third party. I would be leery of this only because a third party couldn't be guaranteed to use the same methodology from one year to the next, or even stick around and not retire or stop at some point; and if we tied things to that one person, any dispute over a particular ranking would have no possible way to fairly and impartially resolve it. For example if your Rankings Guy inexplicably has a Terrible Opinion about someone's player, that owner would have no recourse. There's also the issue of IDP guys, of course. A stats-based salary adjustment has other problems too, though. Chieftest among them is time and effort; including IR slots but not taxi squad slots (because taxi squads currently empty out annually due to our no non-rookies rule), each team has as many as 25 players. 12x25=300 players potentially needing to have their salaries calculated and adjusted manually according to whatever formulas we come up with. You'd need to do this before anyone drops players, too, because everyone is going to want to know how much their players are worth before dropping them, so the only certain-drops from rosters are players who have retired etc. so it really would be close to 300 players per year. For both of these reasons, I personally favor a system with a simple formula to apply. Right now 10% is simple enough that I can put it into a box in the MFL interface and click a button and it just does it. I would be OK with for example grouping players by years owned, or in tiers of salary, and applying a formula to all of the members of each group, provided there's not too many groups. Like say five or so? I also like the interesting things you add to dynasty if you start using player contracts, and that's another thing that MFL natively supports. So we could for example have drafted players on 5 year contracts by default. Or, you could have an option when you acquire a player of either paying them a substantial salary on a one-year contract (mandatory drop at the end of the season) vs. a lower but growing salary on a multi-year contract (which sticks with the player if they're traded). You can even have contracted players cost you cap space even if they're dropped, as in the NFL - say you draft a rookie at 1.5, they have a five-year contract starting at $20 and going up by $5 a year, and if you drop that player, you're on the hook for $5 a year until their contract runs out or someone else picks up that player. These "interesting things" add complexity and make salary caps more confusing and managing a team more difficult, of course. I get the impression the majority of owners aren't really interested in that much management at the moment, and that's OK. I'm just throwing these ideas out there because I know they're options that MFL has some degree of support for. Spermy Smurf posted:The issue I have with seperating the non-rooks out from the rookie draft is that our 5th pick last year was Coby Fleener right? Or 4th? It was something where he'd be $20. Yeah I think I set up a rookie + free agent draft in the first place because I like this dynamic. During the draft you have to trade off between high-value veterans (many of whom are in their last years of play) who can maybe help you win this year, vs. long-term rookie prospects. If we split the draft, you still have to make those decisions, but only due to your salary cap and free roster slots, not due to draft position. If we don't split them, though, we have to do something about the ability of (at least) the #1 drafting team's ability to drop their most expensive player and then draft them first overall for $20. Similarly, any owner dropping a very expensive player due to tight salary cap space is handing over that player to an early drafting team for potentially a third of their salary or something. We could institute a rule that if you draft a veteran player that was dropped by a team just before the draft, that player gets the larger of their draft position salary, or the salary they had before they were dropped. Effectively it would mean expensive players dropped due to high salary remain expensive unless they're so expensive no team wants them at that salary, at which point they would wind up in the first FAAB auction going for whatever their "actual" value is, but costing some team possibly a huge chunk of their years' FAAB dollars. I honestly don't mind that as a solution and intended to propose it if we decide not to split the draft.
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Aug 11, 2017 20:03
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Here's some pictures of poo poo I looked at. It's not exact because I didn't do the rounding bullshit.  10% standard as we have it now.  30% bump after every 3 years for all players.  Kind of a 3 year rookie contract sort of thing, added Henry and Shepard. In this scenario Derrick Henry bumps from 22 to 33 after his rookie contract is up 2 years from now. Zeke bumps from 24 to 36. After 6 years (last year included) Zeke would be paid $40. That's not quite market rate but we're getting there maybe? I can tweak any of these numbers really easy so if someone has an idea let me know. Edit: I think the gist of this is that rookies need to go up in price for the first two or three rounds. Maybe bump them to $30/25/20/18/... Let me do math on this real quick.  Did math, and I think it looks better. Zeke/Derrick Henry at year 4 would be $54. Sterling Sheperd (top WR off the board) would be $45. gently caress I can't count. Sterling Sheperd in this case would be same as Zeke and Henry since he was 1.04. The 1.05 to 1.07 was Coby Fleener, Zach Miller, and Corey Coleman who would be the $45 cost after 3 years. Spermy Smurf fucked around with this message at 20:52 on Aug 11, 2017 |
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Aug 11, 2017 20:41
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Done editing the above poo poo for anyone who hasnt refreshed yet. Edit: That's way too much money for Sterling unless he blows the gently caress up into OBJ2.0, so I'm not sure it's the best way to do it but it's fair for Zeke and Henry I believe. Spermy Smurf fucked around with this message at 21:11 on Aug 11, 2017 |
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Aug 11, 2017 20:52
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A) yes and yes B) I'd say if a player performs in a top x (maybe top 10?) for his position then we could figure out some way to increase the salary to be in line with a top 10 player. That player should be given the lowest price point for those level of players, because the person who drafted him should get something for making a good pick, but I don't think we want a player locked up for their entire career. I think we should implement something this year, but the rule doesn't take effect until the end of this season so people have a year to adjust for the new rule. C) I like the idea of C.4, but I'm not set on anything here. I do like the idea of C.5, having rookies and free agents done separate. So we have several options, please vote: And that reminds me: D: yes
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Aug 11, 2017 21:16
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Leperflesh posted:I don't mind the idea of an offseason drop/add period for vets, but I'd much rather it happen after the NFL free agency period. It would really suck to drop a guy based on his situation, add another guy based on his situation, and then see both guys' situations change due to a trade, drafted rookie, etc. I agree. The preseason FAAB period should absolutely be around the time of the rookie draft, if not after it, just like it is in the real NFL. Doing a bid period for the next season before the current one is over is insane e: Leperflesh posted:I think the net result is injecting more chance and randomness into the game: and I feel like there's already gobs of chance and randomness inherent to fantasy football. I'd rather give owners more opportunities to make meaningful decisions where they can apply good (or bad) strategy and have those decisions pay off (or backfire) appropriately. This is 100% my opinion, well put. Teemu Pokemon fucked around with this message at 22:22 on Aug 11, 2017 |
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Aug 11, 2017 22:19
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Yeah I wasn't really thinking of that to be honest. We just have zero interest in this league till preseason so I was thinking it would be hard to do it so close to the rookie draft
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Aug 11, 2017 22:41
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If we had a full rookie and FA (seems to be preferred) auction draft or the current rookie draft with separate FA draft, it could all be done in the same day to be honest. It would just need to be like a 3-4 hour draft window
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Aug 11, 2017 22:46
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Leperflesh posted:If we don't split them, though, we have to do something about the ability of (at least) the #1 drafting team's ability to drop their most expensive player and then draft them first overall for $20. Similarly, any owner dropping a very expensive player due to tight salary cap space is handing over that player to an early drafting team for potentially a third of their salary or something. The simplest solution would be to not allow teams to draft guys they've dropped. They'd either have to find a trade partner, keep them at their current price, or let them go I do think moving to an auction draft (be it both rookies and FA, or just FA) or a separate FAAB bidding period would effectively solve the latter problem
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Aug 11, 2017 22:52
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Teemu Pokemon posted:The simplest solution would be to not allow teams to draft guys they've dropped. They'd either have to find a trade partner, keep them at their current price, or let them go Correct. However: inevitably, and very soon, some owners will be dropping excellent players with very high salaries. We have to also be comfortable with those players going for first-round draft salaries. For example: Antonio Brown (after 10% increase) will be $68 this year, and then $75 next year. If/when he is dropped, the first round pick will surely be Brown. So if our first round pick has a salary of $30... well, that's a far cry from Brown's actual auction value, which would probably still be in the $50s to $60s. That increases the value of an early round pick, and those teams always finished last in the previous year, so it's an equalizer, and maybe we're all OK with that! If so I'm good, it'll be interesting. On the other hand, maybe veteran picks should cost more than rookie picks, given the veterans are generally much lower risk than rookies. quote:I do think moving to an auction draft (be it both rookies and FA, or just FA) or a separate FAAB bidding period would effectively solve the latter problem Agreed. Auctions determine market price, whereas the snake draft format requires us to spitball what is a fair and reasonable salary. However, as previously mentioned, without a snake draft format, we lose the "equalizer" advantage of early picks given to the bottom teams. Maybe that's OK, or maybe we'd need to think of some other "equalizer," or maybe it's a good enough reason to stick with the snake format for at least the rookies. 
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Aug 11, 2017 23:06
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I understand the trepidation about splitting up rookies and FAs but, the more we hash this out, the more it really seems to me like keeping the rookie snake (which I really like, we just need something like an ELC contract or something set up there imo) and having a FA/UDFA rookie FAAB period or straight up auction draft seems like the cleanest solution if we're that steadfastly against just moving to auction outright (again, I like the rookie snake, so I understand that) e: for greater equalization since the lower ranked teams lose out on guaranteed shots at (possibly cheap) veterans in the draft, maybe we move from a rookie snake, to a straight up 1-12 regular draft order?? I think I would propose that as a best of all worlds potential solution. A 1-12 non-snaking rookie draft with the current salary slots, and a FA auction draft/FAAB period. Teemu Pokemon fucked around with this message at 23:40 on Aug 11, 2017 |
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Aug 11, 2017 23:20
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A) Do you want us to add another defensive FLEX position to the starting roster, as well as adding 1 additional player to all rosters, bringing the total regular roster size to 24? Yes B) Do you think we should adjust our salary increase rules this year? I like atomictyler's suggestion to hammer out the details of any changes now but not implement them until next league year. C.1: Should we just leave things as they are for now? Y/N No C.2: Should we keep the rookie/free agent in snake format, but adjust these starting salary numbers? Y/N They can probably be adjusted but despite being an accountant I've got no head for this kind of math. C.3: If we decide to do C.2, should the salaries generally be higher, or lower, or a mix? Probably a mix C.4: Should we dump the snake format and switch to an auction rookie/free agent draft? No, but I like the idea of an actual NFL style draft instead of a snake draft. C.5: Irrespective of C2-4, should we separate out rookies from free agents, and just do a rookie draft, with free agents dealt with via FAAB? I think that we should separate them since as the league goes on more high priced FA's will be dropped for salary reasons and for someone else to grab them for a song doesn't seem right. I say that as the owner of the team with the top 2 highest paid players, and 3 of the top 10, though. I look forward to being the NO Saints of the league. D: Please vote yes or no on Teemu Pokemon for Commissioner #3 Yes
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Aug 12, 2017 02:24
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^ thx for the formatting A) Do you want us to add another defensive FLEX position to the starting roster, as well as adding 1 additional player to all rosters, bringing the total regular roster size to 24? yeah sure whatever B) Do you think we should adjust our salary increase rules this year? nah C.1: Should we just leave things as they are for now? Y/N Yes except for changing the draft to rookies only C.2: Should we keep the rookie/free agent in snake format, but adjust these starting salary numbers? Y/N keep snake format, change the #s? C.3: If we decide to do C.2, should the salaries generally be higher, or lower, or a mix? Higher. C.4: Should we dump the snake format and switch to an auction rookie/free agent draft? No thanks C.5: Irrespective of C2-4, should we separate out rookies from free agents, and just do a rookie draft, with free agents dealt with via FAAB? definitely. D: Please vote yes or no on Teemu Pokemon for Commissioner #3 yes
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Aug 12, 2017 03:00
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A) Do you want us to add another defensive FLEX position to the starting roster, as well as adding 1 additional player to all rosters, bringing the total regular roster size to 24? N B) Do you think we should adjust our salary increase rules this year? N C.1: Should we just leave things as they are for now? Y/N Y C.2: Should we keep the rookie/free agent in snake format, but adjust these starting salary numbers? Y/N Y C.3: If we decide to do C.2, should the salaries generally be higher, or lower, or a mix? Higher. C.4: Should we dump the snake format and switch to an auction rookie/free agent draft? N C.5: Irrespective of C2-4, should we separate out rookies from free agents, and just do a rookie draft, with free agents dealt with via FAAB? Y D: Please vote yes or no on Teemu Pokemon for Commissioner #3 Y
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Aug 13, 2017 01:11
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Alright well we've got 8 out of 11 owners' votes (not counting my own yet) so that's pretty good. I'll tally things up today. My votes: Do you want us to add another defensive FLEX position to the starting roster, as well as adding 1 additional player to all rosters, bringing the total regular roster size to 24? Yes. For me, more is better, and the arguments made last fall - that we weren't owning enough IDP guys for it to be a serious issue to roster a good one even off of waivers - were convincing at the time. By adding another IDP slot, we do increase the balance of power towards defense and away from offense, though, so I think adding another slot should be accompanied with a points adjustment (downward, slightly) for certain types of defensive scoring. We've previously discussed that, too. Do you think we should adjust our salary increase rules this year? No. I've been convinced by you guys that we should decide on new salary increase rules, but apply them next year rather than this year. C.1: Should we just leave things as they are for now? Y/N No, I want to do a thing. C.2: Should we keep the rookie/free agent in snake format, but adjust these starting salary numbers? Y/N Yes, but only the rookies in snake. C.3: If we decide to do C.2, should the salaries generally be higher, or lower, or a mix? Slightly higher. The salaries for rookies are close to fine if we're not mixing in free agents; that will shorten the rookie draft, meaning most rookies will cost on average a little more. A five dollar bump to the first tier, and then progressing downward as usual, might be a good idea. C.4: Should we dump the snake format and switch to an auction rookie/free agent draft? No, we should keep snake for a rookie draft. C.5: Irrespective of C2-4, should we separate out rookies from free agents, and just do a rookie draft, with free agents dealt with via FAAB? Yes. I think the best way to deal with the issues raised is to keep a snake-format rookie draft, but implement a free agency period just before the rookie draft, in which owners can bid on any free agents available or that have been dropped by teams to make roster space/clear cap space. The money for this auction should not come from the annual FAAB budget - which is OK, because spending it still applies pressure to the cap. D: Please vote yes or no on Teemu Pokemon for Commissioner #3. You may submit your vote to me via PM or email if you prefer to have it be a private vote. I vote yes. Leperflesh fucked around with this message at 17:49 on Aug 15, 2017 |
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Aug 15, 2017 17:46
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A) Do you want us to add another defensive FLEX position to the starting roster, as well as adding 1 additional player to all rosters, bringing the total regular roster size to 24? Yes B) Do you think we should adjust our salary increase rules this year? I like atomictyler's suggestion to hammer out the details of any changes now but not implement them until next league year. C.1: Should we just leave things as they are for now? Y/N Hammer out the details of any changes now but not implement them until next league year. C.2: Should we keep the rookie/free agent in snake format, but adjust these starting salary numbers? Y/N Yes C.3: If we decide to do C.2, should the salaries generally be higher, or lower, or a mix? A more gradual decrease in salaries instead of tiers C.4: Should we dump the snake format and switch to an auction rookie/free agent draft? No C.5: Irrespective of C2-4, should we separate out rookies from free agents, and just do a rookie draft, with free agents dealt with via FAAB? Yes D: Please vote yes or no on Teemu Pokemon for Commissioner #3 Yes
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Aug 15, 2017 22:26
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I meant to do some work on this survey before I left but I ran out of time. I'm going on vacation from tomorrow through tuesday. I can see that Teemu got 7+ votes, so Teemu is our new Commissioner! If someone would like to tally up the other votes and try to figure out what they mean, that'd be swell.
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Aug 18, 2017 03:28
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I will tally them up in a bit. I edited the league links to link to the 2017 version of waivers and injuries. So when you see commish made changes that was it.
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Aug 18, 2017 11:14
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Poll results Oh god that's fuckin huge. Timg'd it instead.
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Aug 18, 2017 12:59
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Hi guys, dang time flies! OK so orders of business: I added Teemu to the spreadsheet as our new commish Teemu, Spermy: as my fellow commissioners, we should make decisions based on the polling. As I mentioned before, these polls are more to find out what the league thinks: rulemaking is mostly our joint responsibility. I'm inclined based on the polling to do the following: 1. Add the defensive flex position and one more roster slot. Bearing in mind we only have a plurality decision there, and two members were against it. 2. Decide on the salary rules for next year, but make no changes to the rookie/free agent salary scale this year. The general consensus is to increase them, but only half the league said to do so, with one opposed and six non-voters. Suggestions for next year's scale? 3. separate out rookies from free agents. It's unclear if we should also postpone that for next year. I'm inclined to do it immediately: we have over a week before our probable drafting day, so we could have a one-week free agency period/FAAB of non-rookies only, and then do the rookie draft; or, we could do the rookie/free agent draft the same as last year, and plan for that FAAB period next year. I'm also not sure whether this one-off FAAB period should come out of the annual FAAB budgets or not. Probably not? 4. None of the above seems to affect the 10% salary increase, so unless one of you speaks up in the next 24 hours, I'm gonna do it 5. Similarly, as soon as we have finalized the above, I want to unlock the league for drops and trades. Everyone has paid up. OK with that stuff as the top priorities, here's some more items of business. 6. We need to schedule the draft. I never heard from Vecna. Chen said he'd probably make most any draft day. Right now the best options are august 31st or september 1st, after 9:30PM Eastern. Between the two, I prefer the Friday the 1st, just to avoid drafting during the final preseason games. 7. I still haven't set up the game schedule for the year. I need to do that ASAP. 8. Someone needs to set up the FAAB schedule in MFL. I keep getting dire notifications from them about how the interface has changed and all leagues need to do it over since last year. And on this note, we discussed last year moving the second FAAB auction to Saturday evening and the general consensus at the time was that that would be fine. 9. We have several more rules changes to discuss. None of them affect things for the next week, but we do need to add interception return yards, blocked field goal return yards, and fumble recovery return yards. Here are some of the other rules changes that were discussed over the last year (sorry, I copy/pasted stuff but didn't attribute it): QB Hits, QB Hurries, Sacked yards, tackle for loss yards Recovering a fumble could be worth something. If the QB fumbles it and the RB jumps on it, that could be 2pts to the RB or something. But then we'd have to make losing a fumble -3 so that if you recover your own fumble you still get -1 overall or something. I dunno. I propose a new rule: teams eliminated from the real playoffs should have their taxi squad players be immune from theft, and teams on BYE cannot steal players. Otherwise these last three weeks, there's too much shenanigan potential by teams just looking to grab value for next season. Pretty good idea, but make the freeze for all teams as it would suck to be forced into a start decision of a taxi squad guy during the playoffs by a team that it has much less or no implications for. Some ideas for weekly incentives, "best scoring RB" or "closest game loser" or whatever. consolation bracket winner getting 1.13 draft pick or something of the sort. 1: An owner can only try to steal one player from another owner's taxi squad in any given week. (That means you can try to steal from three different owners simultaneously, but only one player from each.) 2: Rule 9.9.1 currently says you notify the owner, plus the three commissioners. In practice, it's easier to just notify everyone. So I propose to change the rule to say that you have to both post in this thread, and, sent a message to the league. That should be easier and less confusing. 3. Rule 9.9.3 uses the word "player" when it should be "owner". I'd like to fix that for clarity. 4. There should be a deadline after which taxi squad players can't be stolen. I suggest after the week 13 games (which is when playoffs are entirely settled). 5. Possibly there should be another restriction: I think it'd be fair to say that teams mathematically eliminated from playoff contention should not be allowed to steal taxi squad players. This prevents a "sour grapes" theft from a playoff-contending team just to screw with them, without regard to the actual startability of the taxi squad player. The intent of the taxi squad theft rules is to let a struggling team grab a startable player to help them win matches from another team that isn't using him - not to allow kingmaking or punitive thefts to punish rivals. I'm not suggesting that's actually happened, it's just an obvious exploit we haven't covered. Weekly prizes? Oh, and does our taxi squad stealing specify it cant start until Rosters are editable on Tuesday? If not it should. Because if it doesnt I thought up how to be a dick on Sunday/Monday. Yeah I agree, we definitely should make it so IDP guys can get credit for rushing and receiving yards and touchdowns. Help me remember to do that after the season's over. We should put something in the rules that anyone being claimed via taxi squad is ineligible to be traded away either.
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Aug 24, 2017 03:35
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Most of that stuff (aside of the locking teams in playoffs and whatnot) was in that survey I posted a while back. The survey you did that I tallied up had the rest.  My google docs survey results Your survey results Gonna post again with individual thoughts on your entire thingy.
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Aug 24, 2017 13:37
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Teemu, Spermy: as my fellow commissioners, we should make decisions based on the polling. As I mentioned before, these polls are more to find out what the league thinks: rulemaking is mostly our joint responsibility. I'm inclined based on the polling to do the following: 1. Add the defensive flex position and one more roster slot. Bearing in mind we only have a plurality decision there, and two members were against it. Yes, Add defensive flex, add 1 roster slot 2. Decide on the salary rules for next year, but make no changes to the rookie/free agent salary scale this year. The general consensus is to increase them, but only half the league said to do so, with one opposed and six non-voters. Suggestions for next year's scale? I did 3 suggestion mockups. No one commented on them either way. I would probably do something with the flat tiers we have now. $30 for the first 4? $25 to fill out the round, then drop it to 20 and 18 and 16 relatively quickly. Even lower honestly, I don’t see too many rookies in the 3rd round being worth $15 when guys like Edelman are $17. Corey Coleman (7th overall pick) is $18 with 80pts, Edelman is $17 with 207. 3. separate out rookies from free agents. It's unclear if we should also postpone that for next year. I'm inclined to do it immediately: we have over a week before our probable drafting day, so we could have a one-week free agency period/FAAB of non-rookies only, and then do the rookie draft; or, we could do the rookie/free agent draft the same as last year, and plan for that FAAB period next year. I'm also not sure whether this one-off FAAB period should come out of the annual FAAB budgets or not. Probably not? I think it should absolutely 100% come from the FAAB budget. We have $100 and haven’t spent anywhere near it. I’d vote to dump them all into a single FAAB and have it go next Wednesday or Saturday (just one period where everyone bids on FA all at once, not two different waiver periods), then we can draft just the rookies in our normal draft. This single waiver period (that I think we should have every year moving forward) will force salaries to be higher than $1 or $2. This will help keep salaries up, and keep them more in line with what they should be going forward. 4. None of the above seems to affect the 10% salary increase, so unless one of you speaks up in the next 24 hours, I'm gonna do it Go for it 5. Similarly, as soon as we have finalized the above, I want to unlock the league for drops and trades. Everyone has paid up. OK with that stuff as the top priorities, here's some more items of business. 6. We need to schedule the draft. I never heard from Vecna. Chen said he'd probably make most any draft day. Right now the best options are august 31st or september 1st, after 9:30PM Eastern. Between the two, I prefer the Friday the 1st, just to avoid drafting during the final preseason games. Pick one and send out an email saying it’s happening. Let people put it on their calendars. Friday might be harder with people with social lives, but I’m all good with it. 7. I still haven't set up the game schedule for the year. I need to do that ASAP. 8. Someone needs to set up the FAAB schedule in MFL. I keep getting dire notifications from them about how the interface has changed and all leagues need to do it over since last year. And on this note, we discussed last year moving the second FAAB auction to Saturday evening and the general consensus at the time was that that would be fine. The poll said “no changes to waivers periods” so lets not change anything 9. We have several more rules changes to discuss. None of them affect things for the next week, but we do need to add interception return yards, blocked field goal return yards, and fumble recovery return yards. This got voted down Here are some of the other rules changes that were discussed over the last year (sorry, I copy/pasted stuff but didn't attribute it): QB Hits, QB Hurries, Sacked yards, tackle for loss yards QB Hits and Hurries voted to go, the rest of it didn’t. Recovering a fumble could be worth something. If the QB fumbles it and the RB jumps on it, that could be 2pts to the RB or something. But then we'd have to make losing a fumble -3 so that if you recover your own fumble you still get -1 overall or something. I dunno. This was a tie, and I voted for it so…. I vote yes to the following: -2 to fumbles(same as current), +1 for recovering fumbles I propose a new rule: teams eliminated from the real playoffs should have their taxi squad players be immune from theft, and teams on BYE cannot steal players. Otherwise these last three weeks, there's too much shenanigan potential by teams just looking to grab value for next season. Yeah this was the huge dick move I figured I could do last year. Every other league locks teams to prevent fuckery like this, so I vote we should lock it all down/ Pretty good idea, but make the freeze for all teams as it would suck to be forced into a start decision of a taxi squad guy during the playoffs by a team that it has much less or no implications for. Some ideas for weekly incentives, "best scoring RB" or "closest game loser" or whatever. This got voted down hard so I vote no consolation bracket winner getting 1.13 draft pick or something of the sort. This got voted down hard so I vote no 1: An owner can only try to steal one player from another owner's taxi squad in any given week. (That means you can try to steal from three different owners simultaneously, but only one player from each.) 2: Rule 9.9.1 currently says you notify the owner, plus the three commissioners. In practice, it's easier to just notify everyone. So I propose to change the rule to say that you have to both post in this thread, and, sent a message to the league. That should be easier and less confusing. Voting yes. 3. Rule 9.9.3 uses the word "player" when it should be "owner". I'd like to fix that for clarity. 4. There should be a deadline after which taxi squad players can't be stolen. I suggest after the week 13 games (which is when playoffs are entirely settled). Voting yes. 5. Possibly there should be another restriction: I think it'd be fair to say that teams mathematically eliminated from playoff contention should not be allowed to steal taxi squad players. This prevents a "sour grapes" theft from a playoff-contending team just to screw with them, without regard to the actual startability of the taxi squad player. The intent of the taxi squad theft rules is to let a struggling team grab a startable player to help them win matches from another team that isn't using him - not to allow kingmaking or punitive thefts to punish rivals. I'm not suggesting that's actually happened, it's just an obvious exploit we haven't covered. Voting yes. Weekly prizes? No Oh, and does our taxi squad stealing specify it cant start until Rosters are editable on Tuesday? If not it should. Should be able to post in the thread and email the intent, and it’ll take effect Tuesday so the owner of the player can think about it and let him go or play him. Yeah I agree, we definitely should make it so IDP guys can get credit for rushing and receiving yards and touchdowns. Help me remember to do that after the season's over. Voting yes, this is just a blanket scoring change. Under the “Rules for QB RB WR TE” it’ll just add in “LB, DE, DT, CB, S” so it’s really a non-issue.. We should put something in the rules that anyone being claimed via taxi squad is ineligible to be traded away either. Voting yes, thought that was the case anyway Edit: I am finally done editing this post. Spermy Smurf fucked around with this message at 14:24 on Aug 24, 2017 |
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Aug 24, 2017 14:03
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About the waivers... I changed it to what our rules say. 11am Wed and Sat.  I dont really understand the "Lock all free agents at Sun at 1pm every week." thing. I believe that should be at 11:01am on wednesday and saturday to lock everything down after waivers (no First-Come-First-Serve waiver bids), but I'm not sure.
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Aug 24, 2017 14:23
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Apparently I can make adds/drops right now. Was I supposed to be able to?
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Aug 24, 2017 15:25
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Thanks for taking actions, Spermy. I vaguely remembered that first poll, but also remembered that very few owners bothered to vote in it, so I wasn't feeling that we had to strongly adhere to it. The lock on dropping players is more of a league rule than something MFL allows us to do, maybe? I'll have to look into it. Some specific responses: Spermy Smurf posted:Yes, Add defensive flex, add 1 roster slot Agreed. With 2 commissioners in favor, this rule is enacted. Updated Rule 3.2. Updated roster setup in MFL: you can now start from 1 to 3 of each of the three IDP positions, and you must start 5 total IDP players, and you must start 12 total players. quote:I would probably do something with the flat tiers we have now. $30 for the first 4? $25 to fill out the round, then drop it to 20 and 18 and 16 relatively quickly. Even lower honestly, I don’t see too many rookies in the 3rd round being worth $15 when guys like Edelman are $17. Corey Coleman (7th overall pick) is $18 with 80pts, Edelman is $17 with 207. [/b] Yeah, I'm thinking that since we randomize draft picks among the worst teams for the first four picks, it makes sense that all four of those players should cost the same salary. $30 for the first four and then $25 for the next 8 means everyone drafting a first round rookie has to pay them bank, but owners can potentially trade first round picks if they can't afford that hit, so I'm OK with it. I agree that later round rookies tend to be total fliers though, I bet with the free agents removed it'll be a pretty short draft anyway. The current progression of 20/18/16 in the first round, and then 8/4/2/1 for remaining rounds could change to 30/25 first round, then 12/6/3 for the next three rounds? fifth+ round picks would be $1. quote:I think it should absolutely 100% come from the FAAB budget. We have $100 and haven’t spent anywhere near it. I’d vote to dump them all into a single FAAB and have it go next Wednesday or Saturday (just one period where everyone bids on FA all at once, not two different waiver periods), then we can draft just the rookies in our normal draft. This single waiver period (that I think we should have every year moving forward) will force salaries to be higher than $1 or $2. This will help keep salaries up, and keep them more in line with what they should be going forward. quote:4. None of the above seems to affect the 10% salary increase, so unless one of you speaks up in the next 24 hours, I'm gonna do it Go for it Uhhh. So I did the "automatically increase all player's salaries by 10% but I'm not sure it worked. I see tons of players with $1 salaries still. I bet it rounded down. Goddamnit. Yep. It's displaying rounded numbers, but it actually rounded players by exactly 10% to the penny. I will go through momentarily (after I finish the rest of this post) and round up all salaries to the nearest dollar. Fun. quote:5. Similarly, as soon as we have finalized the above, I want to unlock the league for drops and trades. Everyone has paid up. Yeah so the way the lock works is you set a date after which nobody is allowed to make roster changes for the season. It looks like MFL has decided a new season has started, so you're free to drop players already. Obviously nobody try to add players yet, I don't know what would happen, but feel free to put in trades. quote:Pick one and send out an email saying it’s happening. Let people put it on their calendars. Friday might be harder with people with social lives, but I’m all good with it. Yeah but nobody said they were busy that friday night so gently caress your social lives! LOL but seriously if anyone is busy speak now or forever hold your peace, because I am putting in Friday Sept. 1st at 9:30 PM Eastern as our draft night. quote:The poll said “no changes to waivers periods” so lets not change anything Oh man, someone's gonna be piiissseed. But realtalk I don't care greatly if the waivers run saturday morning or saturday evening, as long as there's ample time to set the roster before sunday games run, and for me, given some sunday games are in London and run godawful early, that means I better have time Saturday after waivers to set newly acquired players to play. I expect east coasters would feel the same about the waivers running too late at night for them. But a shift of a few hours later in the day Saturday would be fine with me, and the league vote on that did not include our two new owners, nor was it participated in heavily, so I'd be OK with a revote on it if you are. quote:9. We have several more rules changes to discuss. None of them affect things for the next week, but we do need to add interception return yards, blocked field goal return yards, and fumble recovery return yards. This got voted down Yeah, by three owners. Weird, really. It's a case where even a player that normally gets points for yards per carry, doesn't get points for these sorts of yards. Basically an oversight, originally. But I'll go with the majority here, if we actually have one. quote:QB Hits, QB Hurries, Sacked yards, tackle for loss yards QB Hits and Hurries voted to go, the rest of it didn’t. Bear in mind IDP players are already producing big piles of points. This is another result from that poorly attended vote where the results might not make a lot of sense. I think I'd prefer to have the league agree to a packaged IDP scoring change, rather than individual play scoring changes that aren't integrated into a strategy for balancing IDP vs. offensive players. I agree on the fumbles thing, I think, but we should test it. quote:I propose a new rule: teams eliminated from the real playoffs should have their taxi squad players be immune from theft, and teams on BYE cannot steal players. Otherwise these last three weeks, there's too much shenanigan potential by teams just looking to grab value for next season. Yeah this was the huge dick move I figured I could do last year. Every other league locks teams to prevent fuckery like this, so I vote we should lock it all down/ With two commissioners in agreement, I'm making these rules changes. (Teemu, no intention of locking you out of the discussion here, I'm just trying to move quickly, but do speak up if you disagree with any of this poo poo, we can roll back something if you convince either or both of myself and Spermy that we were wrong!) Edited Rules 9.9.1 and 9.9.3, added Rules 9.11, 9.12, and 9.13... quote:Pretty good idea, but make the freeze for all teams as it would suck to be forced into a start decision of a taxi squad guy during the playoffs by a team that it has much less or no implications for. quote:Oh, and does our taxi squad stealing specify it cant start until Rosters are editable on Tuesday? If not it should. Should be able to post in the thread and email the intent, and it’ll take effect Tuesday so the owner of the player can think about it and let him go or play him. I believe that's the status quo anyway, so I haven't made any rule change. Basically announcing a steal before roster changes are allowed on tuesday doesn't do anything bad, because the owner has 48 hours to decide anyway. quote:Yeah I agree, we definitely should make it so IDP guys can get credit for rushing and receiving yards and touchdowns. Help me remember to do that after the season's over. Voting yes, this is just a blanket scoring change. Under the “Rules for QB RB WR TE” it’ll just add in “LB, DE, DT, CB, S” so it’s really a non-issue.. With two commissioners in favor, I'm adding rushing and receiving yards and touchdowns to the IDP scoring. Added: rushing yards, receiving yards, number of rushing TDs, number of receiving TDs. Note: this begs the question, since this is a .5 ppr league, should IDP players get .5 points per reception, as well? quote:We should put something in the rules that anyone being claimed via taxi squad is ineligible to be traded away either. Voting yes, thought that was the case anyway Added rule 9.14 just to clarify this point.
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Aug 24, 2017 17:43
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Actually god gently caress I can't just round all salaries up to the nearest dollar. The rule is 10%, "minimum +$1" not 10%, "rounded up". I should have just done all of them manually. e. OK check my math: After rounding up by exactly 10%: Any salary that is $10 or less should always be rounded up to the next whole dollar. Any salary that is >$10 should always be rounded up or down to the nearest whole dollar. examples: Davante Adams, 18.70 -> 19 Jay Ajayi, 4.40 -> 5 Keenan Allen, 26.40 -> 26 Sam Bradford, 9.90 -> 10 Tevin Coleman, 14.30 -> 14 right? e. Yeah I'm sure that's right. Doing it now. Leperflesh fucked around with this message at 17:58 on Aug 24, 2017 |
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Aug 24, 2017 17:46
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OK salaries are done! Oh god my salary cap is sooo busted. Drop your players now. Remember, we'll do a free agent bidding period before the draft, and then the draft is rookies only. Also take last year's rookies off your taxi squads, and fix your IR slots. You'll need to clear all IR violations before the free agent bidding period and the draft. Only Out and IR players are eligible for the IR slots. We have some more rules changes to discuss, based on notes I made on the rules document, plus what's above, but you should be able to do all of the above safely now. One more point: according to our current rules (rule 7.4) while you can place rookies you draft onto your taxi squad to avoid their salaries busting your cap, you can't do this mid-draft, so you still need bench slots for them.
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Aug 24, 2017 18:17
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Leperflesh posted:
Oh motherfucker I forgot about this. Leperflesh posted:But a shift of a few hours later in the day Saturday would be fine with me, and the league vote on that did not include our two new owners, nor was it participated in heavily, so I'd be OK with a revote on it if you are. Good call. 3pm Saturday EST would be fine, it's not a huge change. Leperflesh posted:Yeah, by three owners. Weird, really. It's a case where even a player that normally gets points for yards per carry, doesn't get points for these sorts of yards. Basically an oversight, originally. But I'll go with the majority here, if we actually have one. Not a lot of leagues have the return yards for INTs and Fumble Recoveries. Just points for the act, and nothing else. The diehard ones do, but those are 32 team leagues with diehard FF junkies. Probably should send out an email to everyone telling them to check this thread.
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Aug 24, 2017 18:33
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Is there a good app yet? MFL Platinum wants me to install the amazon app store for the 2017 version and I'd prefer not to.
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Aug 24, 2017 20:03
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I scheduled the All IDP Leagues draft for Septemeber 1st as well, but I think that only impacts me and Teemu and I think I can handle that since the IDP draft will hopefully be in the later rounds by the time this draft starts.
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Aug 24, 2017 20:10
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Stevie Lee posted:Is there a good app yet? Nope, that's the one I use. I installed the Amazon poo poo a while ago. It updates fine, with that too. Edit: The web isn't that bad on phones anymore either. They revamped that so just use Chrome if you want. Spermy Smurf fucked around with this message at 20:36 on Aug 24, 2017 |
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Aug 24, 2017 20:18
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I remember doing that league for a year or two, but I'm glad I'm not doing it any more, it was too much work trying to keep track, and I was awful at it. We could still do the draft thursday instead of friday, but I prefer to draft after the last preseason games (which are all that thursday) since it'll be a big chance for rookies to get season-ending injuries that nobody should get hosed wasting a high draft pick on. The draft currently gives each owner 2 minutes to make a pick. If you want more time than that, we could adjust it. Anyway, me and Spermy met up on IM this morning for a working question and we have worked out there is a significant question for how to do the next week and a half of events. Every option has a downside as far as we can see, so it's not an obvious choice. Here's what we thought of: Option A: 1. everyone drops players from their rosters from now until next tuesday. 2. next wednesday there's a free agent auction in which you can only add non-rookie free agents: you can't do conditional drops when you add players 3. next friday we have the rookie draft, during which you also can't drop players, only add rookies 4. after the draft, there's another free agency period (or two) before the first regular season game, which is thursday sept. 7th. This is normal FAAB, with conditional adds/drops OK and all rookies/free agents are free game. Advantage: nobody can wait until step 2 to drop someone they want to drop for cap space and thereby cause everyone to wonder if they need to keep cap space open to try and grab that guy, and how much, which would affect the willingness to draft rookies, especially expensive first round rookies. Disadvantage: it's pretty restrictive, you could potentially drop an important guy for cap space, see another owner grab him for cheaper, and then not see the rookie you were targeting fall to you in the draft. Option B: 1. everyone drops players from their rosters from now until next tuesday 2. next wednesday there's a free agent auction in which you can both (conditionally) drop and add non-rookie free agents. 3. next friday we have the rookie draft, during which you also can't drop players, only add rookies 4. after the draft, there's another free agency period (or two) before the first regular season game, which is thursday sept. 7th. This is normal FAAB, with conditional adds/drops OK and all rookies/free agents are free game. Advantage: you don't have to commit to a veteran drop until you know if you won a bid in that first free agent auction. Disadvantage: There's an exploitation room here, where you can use the FAAB auction to guarantee you're dropping an expensive player you never would have kept, while making sure no other owner can touch him till post-draft. Then you bid the max you can with your salary cap as it is post-draft, with your expensive rookies on taxi squad to clear a little more roster/cap space. This might be a tad unfair to other owners, although of course every owner can take advantage of this, and you're still risking being outbid on your dropped player post-draft. Option C: 1. everyone drops players from their rosters from now until next tuesday 2. next wednesday there's a free agent auction in which you can both (conditionally) drop and add non-rookie free agents. 3. next friday we have the rookie draft, during which you can also drop players, as well as adding rookies 4. after the draft, there's another free agency period (or two) before the first regular season game, which is thursday sept. 7th. This is normal FAAB, with conditional adds/drops OK and all rookies/free agents are free game. Advantage: maximum flexibility going into the rookie draft. If the rookie you want drops to you, you drop an expensive vet you're vaccilating on, and can still potentially get him back cheaper in the next auction. Disadvantage: even more room for shenanigans with dropped-and-then-re-added veterans, and less incentive to make your veterans available to other owners pre-draft. Option D: 1. everyone drops players from their rosters from now until next tuesday 2. next wednesday there's a free agent auction in which you can only add non-rookie free agents: you can't do conditional drops when you add players 3. next friday we have the rookie draft, during which you can also drop players, as well as adding rookies 4. after the draft, there's another free agency period (or two) before the first regular season game, which is thursday sept. 7th. This is normal FAAB, with conditional adds/drops OK and all rookies/free agents are free game. Advantage: this is just a mix of A and C, so it's an option that gives owners more flexibility for managing their roster and cap space during the draft Disadvantage: similar to option C, this probably reduces the pool of veterans available in the pre-draft auction. Option E: 1. everyone drops players from their rosters from now until next tuesday 2. next wednesday there's a free agent auction in which you can both (conditionally) drop and add non-rookie free agents. 3. next friday we have the rookie draft, during which you also can't drop players, only add rookies 4. after the draft, there's no free agency period before the first weekend of regular season game, which is thursday sept. 7th through monday sept. 11th. Advantage: anyone who waits till the first auction to conditionally drop players cannot have those players before the first week of games are played. This should strongly discourage owners from waiting to drop high-priced players in the hope of re-grabbing them for cheap before their first game. Disadvantage: this could result in valuable players being un-owned during the week 1 games, which is kinda stupid. What's the point of being allowed to drop those players during step 2, in that case? Option F: 1. everyone drops players from their rosters from now until next tuesday 2. next wednesday there's a free agent auction in which you can only add non-rookie free agents: you can't do conditional drops when you add players 3. next friday we have the rookie draft, during which you also can't drop players, only add rookies 4. after the draft, there's no free agency period before the first weekend of regular season game, which is thursday sept. 7th through monday sept. 11th. Advantage: there's absolutely no room for shenanigans. If you don't want to be hit with the cap on a veteran, you have to drop him now, or I guess work out a trade. Once you've kept your veterans past next tuesday, you will have to deal with their cap hit during the first week. Disadvantage: as with option E, it sucks not having a waiver period after the draft but before the week 1 games. What if a player gets killed during practice on saturday sept. 9th? You can't dump him and grab his backup. Option G+ gently caress I dunno, did I hit all the options? I think I might have missed something. Anyway I personally slightly favor option A or F, depending on whether shenanigans are likely or not likely, but I don't strongly favor them and I wanna hear arguments. ALSO AS A TOTALLY SEPARATE ISSUE: There's no ability to draft directly to your IR or taxi squad, but commissioners could make such a move during the live draft if we want to allow that. Right now, you must have open bench slots during the draft for each man you draft. I don't think the interface will allow you to move bench players to IR/Taxi mid-draft, after you draft them but before your next pick, but I'm not 100% sure of that and don't see any way to test it. We do have the salary cap set to be "soft" e.g., MFL permits you to bust it despite our league rules, so by rules right now, you can plan to move a rookie to Taxi and thereby avoid his salary busting your cap even if he'd otherwise bust your cap mid-draft... but if you want to draft four rookies, right now you need four bench slots open before the draft starts. That's something we can change the rule on, supposedly. Similarly, our rules currently permit mid-draft trades, including of draft picks. A commissioner would need to pause the draft and manually implement that, if someone tries to do it. Nobody has tried to do it yet, and with only 2 minutes per pick, there's probably no time to try to arrange it mid-draft. Should we just dump the rule permitting mid-draft trades? If nobody really wants to use it anyway, why bother. The other thing to do (in a future year, it's too late now) is switch to a "slow draft" that gives you much more time to arrange trades etc. mid-draft; we'd need to run such a draft earlier, because a slow + live draft is far too long, so it'd be something that takes days and is conducted offline.
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Aug 24, 2017 20:48
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I vote A. Drop everyone you want so everyone across the board knows who there is to bid on. If Bell gets dropped, or Gronk, then owners will have time (at least 24hrs before the draft) to figure out their own salary cap and see if they can bid on them. Between step 2 and 3 you're able to drop guys, right? Just so I can clear more room for rookies in case I don't win the hypothetical Gronk in this scenario. After the rookie draft I vote it just goes straight into normal waivers. Blind Bids for everyone at that point. It would be business as usual. About Taxi squads: Being able to move a guy to taxi and draft another one mid-draft would be super helpful. It could screw over the guy drafting behind you though. If I took Watson, and Leper wanted him with the next pick... then I moved him to taxi and ended up dropping him later that just screws Leper out of Watson if he doesn't win the blind bid on him. That's a risk I'd be willing to take but I dont know about the rest of you. Spermy Smurf fucked around with this message at 21:04 on Aug 24, 2017 |
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Aug 24, 2017 21:01
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Spermy Smurf posted:I vote A. quote:
quote:About Taxi squads: Being able to move a guy to taxi and draft another one mid-draft would be super helpful. It could screw over the guy drafting behind you though. If I took Watson, and Leper wanted him with the next pick... then I moved him to taxi and ended up dropping him later that just screws Leper out of Watson if he doesn't win the blind bid on him. I think it's implicit that you can't drop someone you just drafted, during the draft, but we should make that clear? After the draft, if you dropped him he'd go onto bids, and if he's on your taxi squad he's vulnerable to being stolen.
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Aug 24, 2017 21:08
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I more meant that I could go over my limit temporarily, move him to Taxi Squad, then drop him immediately following the draft. That would just deprive you of a player that you might have wanted, and now you are forced to bid on him like some kind of animal.
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Aug 24, 2017 21:15
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is anyone here enough of an rear end in a top hat to do that though
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Aug 24, 2017 21:25
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Spermy Smurf posted:I more meant that I could go over my limit temporarily, move him to Taxi Squad, then drop him immediately following the draft. That would just deprive you of a player that you might have wanted, and now you are forced to bid on him like some kind of animal. Yeah that's kind of a fundamental weakness to combining a snake style draft with auction style free agency. We could disallow dropping taxi squad players, but that seems ridiculous to me. Otherwise I don't see how to prevent it entirely. It's kind of dumb to waste a draft pick on a player you don't intend to keep at all, though. I guess that's marginally better than just outright skipping a draft pick, but you get three taxi squad slots that cost you nothing against your cap, so if you have taxi squad space, you might as well draft someone you want instead of someone you don't want. But... yeah, I can see how there's some kind of space here for a shenanigan. Stevie Lee posted:is anyone here enough of an rear end in a top hat to do that though I doubt it. But I prefer to anticipate exploits and disallow them, rather than risk the situation where someone does an exploit that's technically within the rules, and then have to deal with some kind of "against the spirit of the thing" argument about whether or not it violates Rule 0.
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Aug 24, 2017 21:53
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Stevie Lee posted:is anyone here enough of an rear end in a top hat to do that though No, just pointing out any dumb flaws I can even if they aren't really flaws.
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Aug 24, 2017 22:26
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I'd generally favor expanding roster for draft (and ignoring cap) and requiring compliance by 24h from draft end.
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Aug 24, 2017 23:38
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I just got home and I have a ton of stuff to do, but I glanced through all this. I'll have to sit down and put some thoughts together on everything later tonight, but just giving you guys a heads up that I'm here
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Aug 24, 2017 23:43
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