interviewing and job hunting is garbage

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Serious Hardware/Software Crap > YOSPOS > interviewing and job hunting is garbage

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qhat: Jul 6, 2015

Crushed an interview yesterday, they got back to me today to say it went well too, so I'll hope the other candidates are dogshit trash

# ? Aug 12, 2017 03:50

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# ? May 28, 2024 01:52

Ellie Crabcakes: Feb 1, 2008; Stop emailing my boyfriend Gay Crungus

fritz posted:

didnt you just start there a couple months ago

If I remember correctly they're working at a startup (strike 1) on microservices (not always a strike, but strike 2) implemented in such a way that Mongo (strike 3) isn't the dumbest thing in it (umpire sets himself on fire).

# ? Aug 12, 2017 04:52

Luigi Thirty: Apr 30, 2006; Emergency confection port.

i had my FINAL INTERVIEW with the director of engineering at $company today

it seemed to go quite well and he said prospects are very good, i'll get a final decision probably on tuesday

aaaaaag the waiting

# ? Aug 12, 2017 05:06

Shaman Linavi: Apr 3, 2012

Luigi Thirty posted:

aaaaaag the waiting

# ? Aug 12, 2017 05:09

Mao Zedong Thot: Oct 16, 2008

Luigi Thirty posted:

i had my FINAL INTERVIEW with the director of engineering at $company today

it seemed to go quite well and he said prospects are very good, i'll get a final decision probably on tuesday

aaaaaag the waiting

gl god bless get figgies

# ? Aug 12, 2017 05:46

Captain Foo: May 11, 2004; we vibin'
we slidin'
we breathin'
we dyin'

VOTE YES ON 69 posted:

gl god bless get figgies

# ? Aug 12, 2017 06:57

my homie dhall: Dec 9, 2010; honey, oh please, it's just a machine

l30 get the figgies

# ? Aug 12, 2017 08:28

Luigi Thirty: Apr 30, 2006; Emergency confection port.

Isn�t this what the future was supposed to be

the paperless office, telecommuting, making a deece five figgies in your basement

# ? Aug 12, 2017 08:31

leper khan: Dec 28, 2010; Honest to god thinks Half Life 2 is a bad game. But at least he likes Monster Hunter.

Luigi Thirty posted:

Isn�t this what the future was supposed to be

the paperless office, telecommuting, making a deece five figgies in your basement

no; it's supposed to be that but with six figgies.

# ? Aug 12, 2017 11:28

gonadic io: Feb 16, 2011; >>=

Also everybody I'm applying to is talking about double my current salary or more, 6 figgies (usd, not 6 gbp figgies) here I come

# ? Aug 12, 2017 12:53

The Management: Jan 2, 2010; sup, bitch?

gonadic io posted:

Also everybody I'm applying to is talking about double my current salary or more, 6 figgies (usd, not 6 gbp figgies) here I come

sounds like you were wasting your time being underpaid.

# ? Aug 12, 2017 16:17

gonadic io: Feb 16, 2011; >>=

The Management posted:

sounds like you were wasting your time being underpaid.

Let me tell you about my stock options

# ? Aug 12, 2017 16:53

Notorious b.s.d.: Jan 25, 2003; by Reene

gonadic io posted:

Also everybody I'm applying to is talking about double my current salary or more, 6 figgies (usd, not 6 gbp figgies) here I come

gently caress yes get it

# ? Aug 12, 2017 17:08

minivanmegafun: Jul 27, 2004

gonadic io posted:

Also everybody I'm applying to is talking about double my current salary or more, 6 figgies (usd, not 6 gbp figgies) here I come

time to stack paper and spoil the alien cats

# ? Aug 12, 2017 17:17

jony neuemonic: Nov 13, 2009

gonadic io posted:

Also everybody I'm applying to is talking about double my current salary or more, 6 figgies (usd, not 6 gbp figgies) here I come

i can't seem to break out of the high fives. maybe next year.

# ? Aug 12, 2017 17:26

gonadic io: Feb 16, 2011; >>=

I mean I'm a little concerned that my 2 years of scala is going to tie me to it forever unless I want a huge pay cut back to a junior role

# ? Aug 12, 2017 18:29

huhu: Feb 24, 2006

Can anyone tell me what this means "You can purchase X shares of common stock from the company at an exercise price per share with a vesting schedule determined by the Board. " I understand the individual words I think but together I have no idea. For what it's worth, it's a private company. It looks like I should be asking what the price per share is? Anything else?

# ? Aug 12, 2017 19:33

hobbesmaster: Jan 28, 2008

huhu posted:

Can anyone tell me what this means "You can purchase X shares of common stock from the company at an exercise price per share with a vesting schedule determined by the Board. " I understand the individual words I think but together I have no idea. For what it's worth, it's a private company. It looks like I should be asking what the price per share is? Anything else?

your shares are worth $0

# ? Aug 12, 2017 19:35

huhu: Feb 24, 2006

hobbesmaster posted:

your shares are worth $0

Worth $0 or cost $0? I was asking the HR lady and she said they company pays out $$ every so often to those with shares. I've never actually been offered shares before so I have 0 idea what I'm doing.

# ? Aug 12, 2017 19:37

JawnV6: Jul 4, 2004; So hot ...

gonadic io posted:

I mean I'm a little concerned that my 2 years of scala is going to tie me to it forever unless I want a huge pay cut back to a junior role

basically i don't believe this at all v :shobon:

v

i spent the first 8 years of my career doing hardware in languages that hardly exist outside that domain, i've never gone back to a 'junior' role. gray forums poster csammis did a similar distance jump from HLL's to embedded.

i can't really speak to the UK market, but there are ways to switch languages/stacks/domains without a complete setback like that. it takes a fair bit of storytelling and/or nepotism, (csammis had github hobby projects, i had a ME brother at the startup where i was first called a firmware engineer) but once you're into the 3~5 year range and a solid midlevel there are general engineering/employee skills outside of one language that should be valued anywhere. your work on bringing arduino to rust environments is proof enough you can work outside of scala, buffing up that story might be enough for certain employers

# ? Aug 12, 2017 19:38

hobbesmaster: Jan 28, 2008

the usual scam with a private company is that employee stock cannot be sold unless the company is sold or goes public. even if that occurs, often the sale is structured in such a way that the employee stock is not actually sold

if they're paying out dividends are they doing it in place of a 401k match?

# ? Aug 12, 2017 19:40

huhu: Feb 24, 2006

hobbesmaster posted:

the usual scam with a private company is that employee stock cannot be sold unless the company is sold or goes public. even if that occurs, often the sale is structured in such a way that the employee stock is not actually sold

if they're paying out dividends are they doing it in place of a 401k match?

Their benefits page lists equity and 401K match. The HR lady said she got a pretty nice dividend 4 months into working there.

# ? Aug 12, 2017 19:46

The Management: Jan 2, 2010; sup, bitch?

huhu posted:

Can anyone tell me what this means "You can purchase X shares of common stock from the company at an exercise price per share with a vesting schedule determined by the Board. " I understand the individual words I think but together I have no idea. For what it's worth, it's a private company. It looks like I should be asking what the price per share is? Anything else?

it means that they give you the option to buy X many shares of stock at a given price, regardless of what the market price is. that X is divided over a period of years, which is the vesting schedule. a fraction of it vests every few months or every year or so.

basically they say you can buy stock at regular intervals, if you choose to. and if the stock value is above your option price, you make the difference between the price you pay and the price you can sell it at.

now, at a private company all of this is all theoretical because the price of the stock is effectively zero until there is a market in which you can sell your shares. I.e. on IPO or purchase of the company they might actually be worth something.

# ? Aug 12, 2017 19:47

DONT THREAD ON ME: Oct 1, 2002; by Nyc_Tattoo; Floss Finder

gonadic io posted:

I mean I'm a little concerned that my 2 years of scala is going to tie me to it forever unless I want a huge pay cut back to a junior role

basically agreeing with what JawnV6 said. Also scala is a smarty pants language and most people are just kind of impressed / curious about it.

# ? Aug 12, 2017 19:48

CLASS 2 PERVERSION: Jan 19, 2010

i' m going from a scala job to a java job, and i'm kind of nervous about it because i've haven't programmed in java professionally

# ? Aug 12, 2017 19:57

Notorious b.s.d.: Jan 25, 2003; by Reene

a very small horse posted:

i' m going from a scala job to a java job, and i'm kind of nervous about it because i've haven't programmed in java professionally

you'll be fine, but boy howdy are you gonna hate java

# ? Aug 12, 2017 19:58

CLASS 2 PERVERSION: Jan 19, 2010

Notorious b.s.d. posted:

you'll be fine, but boy howdy are you gonna hate java

yeah, that's what i'm nervous about

# ? Aug 12, 2017 20:00

gonadic io: Feb 16, 2011; >>=

a very small horse posted:

i' m going from a scala job to a java job, and i'm kind of nervous about it because i've haven't programmed in java professionally

Imagine scala without any of the good things, or the bad things, or any of the things.

Java the language is the most mundane language ever, it has none of the features that you currently depend on.
It's not even like you get better libraries moving from scala to java, although you do get to escape from all the lovely scala ones.
Tell me it's at least java 8.

# ? Aug 12, 2017 20:01

Notorious b.s.d.: Jan 25, 2003; by Reene

huhu posted:

Worth $0 or cost $0? I was asking the HR lady and she said they company pays out $$ every so often to those with shares. I've never actually been offered shares before so I have 0 idea what I'm doing.

whether you are offered shares or options, if it's not public stock, its actual value is likely somewhere in the vicinity of $0. there are a lot of reasons for this. some innocuous, some less so.

par value

in the united states, your privately held company can get in some very deep poo poo with the irs and sec if you give employees stock or options that are deliberately undervalued.

as a result, the "par" value of private shares or strike price on private options will always be higher than any reasonable estimate in order to avoid getting into hot water.

the company's value has to grow very considerably after you receive the options package for them to be worth more than $0, even on paper
ownership structure

private firms, particularly startups, usually hand out multiple classes of stock. the highest tier is investors -- they have protections and entitlements that everyone else lacks. the next tier will be founders. last is employees.

it is very possible for a private company to "exit," make the founders fabulously wealthy, and pay out employees little or nothing, because the proceeds were consumed by the entitlements granted to investors.
lockouts

so your company exits and goes public. guess what: you don't get to sell.

the stock sold in the IPO will either be "primary" (i.e. new stock, whose proceeds go into the company's accounts) or they will be investor/founder shares. your shares, as an employee, will not be on offer.

you'll have a lockout for some period, until the IPO cools off. often the public price when your lockout expires will be so much lower, your options are underwater and worth $0.
dilution

this one is both simple and innocuous. if you're employee #3, you might own 1% of the company at the beginning, but as funding rounds B through G execute, you end up owning 0.01%. each new funding round means new shares being issued, and there's no guarantee your stock/option grants will keep up with the rate of dilution!

as a result, the company exits, you get paid, but it's $5k for five years of work, not $500k like you hoped.

Notorious b.s.d. fucked around with this message at 20:08 on Aug 12, 2017

# ? Aug 12, 2017 20:06

CLASS 2 PERVERSION: Jan 19, 2010

gonadic io posted:

Imagine scala without any of the good things, or the bad things, or any of the things.

Java the language is the most mundane language ever, it has none of the features that you currently depend on.
It's not even like you get better libraries moving from scala to java, although you do get to escape from all the lovely scala ones.
Tell me it's at least java 8.

yep, java 8. I quite like scala, cats and stuff makes me feel clever .

# ? Aug 12, 2017 20:09

Notorious b.s.d.: Jan 25, 2003; by Reene

if you don't want to read my giant block of text, just think of this in terms of incentives

if your options package was worth more than cash, why would the company give away options? it would just be cheaper for them to give you cash instead.

startup options are almost never worth anything at all

# ? Aug 12, 2017 20:09

Asymmetric POSTer: Aug 17, 2005

Notorious b.s.d. posted:

whether you are offered shares or options, if it's not public stock, its actual value is likely somewhere in the vicinity of $0. there are a lot of reasons for this. some innocuous, some less so.

par value

in the united states, your privately held company can get in some very deep poo poo with the irs and sec if you give employees stock or options that are deliberately undervalued.

as a result, the "par" value of private shares or strike price on private options will always be higher than any reasonable estimate in order to avoid getting into hot water.

the company's value has to grow very considerably after you receive the options package for them to be worth more than $0, even on paper

ownership structure

private firms, particularly startups, usually hand out multiple classes of stock. the highest tier is investors -- they have protections and entitlements that everyone else lacks. the next tier will be founders. last is employees.

it is very possible for a private company to "exit," make the founders fabulously wealthy, and pay out employees little or nothing, because the proceeds were consumed by the entitlements granted to investors.

lockouts

so your company exits and goes public. guess what: you don't get to sell.

the stock sold in the IPO will either be "primary" (i.e. new stock, whose proceeds go into the company's accounts) or they will be investor/founder shares. your shares, as an employee, will not be on offer.

you'll have a lockout for some period, until the IPO cools off. often the public price when your lockout expires will be so much lower, your options are underwater and worth $0.

dilution

this one is both simple and innocuous. if you're employee #3, you might own 1% of the company at the beginning, but as funding rounds B through G execute, you end up owning 0.01%. each new funding round means new shares being issued, and there's no guarantee your stock/option grants will keep up with the rate of dilution!

as a result, the company exits, you get paid, but it's $5k for five years of work, not $500k like you hoped.

a good and informative nbsd post

# ? Aug 12, 2017 20:12

The Management: Jan 2, 2010; sup, bitch?

a very small horse posted:

i' m going from a scala job to a java job, and i'm kind of nervous about it because i've haven't programmed in java professionally

no one has ever programmed in java professionally

# ? Aug 12, 2017 21:11

ShadowHawk: Jun 25, 2000; CERTIFIED PRE OWNED TESLA OWNER

huhu posted:

Their benefits page lists equity and 401K match. The HR lady said she got a pretty nice dividend 4 months into working there.

You need more details on these supposed "dividends" -- are they tied to actual ownership amount? Does this mean she has not only vested her options, but bought and carries the actual shares?

If these are genuine real dividends that company pays out to shareholders with corporate assets, then it is a very strong signal that they have no intention of raising more funds. But in that case you shouldn't expect the company to grow, meaning the present value of the options would be nothing.

# ? Aug 12, 2017 23:26

carry on then: Jul 10, 2010; by VideoGames
(and can't post for 10 years!)

The Management posted:

no one has ever programmed in java professionally

oh gently caress off

# ? Aug 13, 2017 00:37

AnoHito: May 8, 2014

The Management posted:

no one has ever programmed professionally

# ? Aug 13, 2017 05:06

heated game moment: Oct 30, 2003; Lipstick Apathy

programming isnt a profession

# ? Aug 13, 2017 05:23

havent heard a peep: May 29, 2003; When Steve Jobs died it wasn't the first job I'd lost that week.

I sell services as a service. Lol it's pretty good

# ? Aug 13, 2017 19:55

FlapYoJacks: Feb 12, 2009

Jesus, I am currently right this instance interviewing a guy, and he keeps complaining about upper management at his old jobs.

Jesus, that guy was awful. How do you politely end an interview call that says "Thanks but no thanks?"

FlapYoJacks fucked around with this message at 17:44 on Aug 14, 2017

# ? Aug 14, 2017 17:39

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# ? May 28, 2024 01:52

ultravoices: May 10, 2004; You are about to embark on a great journey. Are you ready, my friend?

ratbert90 posted:

Jesus, I am currently right this instance interviewing a guy, and he keeps complaining about upper management at his old jobs.

Jesus, that guy was awful. How do you politely end an interview call that says "Thanks but no thanks?"

we have decided not to move forward at this time in your follow up email.

# ? Aug 14, 2017 17:47

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Serious Hardware/Software Crap > YOSPOS > interviewing and job hunting is garbage

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