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There's been a spate of gang shootings in Copenhagen recently, so the government is going to let the military do police work now, instead of dropping the useless border patrol that takes up 10% of the police budget.
SplitSoul fucked around with this message at 03:59 on Aug 13, 2017 |
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Aug 12, 2017 01:05
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SplitSoul posted:There's been a spat of gang shootings in Copenhagen recently, so the government is going to let the military do police work now, instead of dropping the useless border patrol that takes up 10% of the police budget.
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Aug 12, 2017 08:01
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That'd make way too much sense, sorry
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Aug 12, 2017 08:55
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A Buttery Pastry posted:This is like two levels of dumb. Why not pull the police back to Copenhagen and have the military guard the borders, if you want the borders guarded and more policing? My memory might be playing a trick on me here but as I remember it the Schengen exception that allows for the temporary border controls requires that they are manned by personal falling under the police.
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Aug 12, 2017 11:40
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MiddleOne posted:My memory might be playing a trick on me here but as I remember it the Schengen exception that allows for the temporary border controls requires that they are manned by personal falling under the police.
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Aug 12, 2017 12:01
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MiddleOne posted:My memory might be playing a trick on me here but as I remember it the Schengen exception that allows for the temporary border controls requires that they are manned by personal falling under the police. Wouldn't Austria be hella non-compliant, then?
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Aug 12, 2017 20:30
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Groda posted:Wouldn't Austria be hella non-compliant, then? It was a drat long time since I last read that treaty.
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Aug 12, 2017 21:23
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A Buttery Pastry posted:This is like two levels of dumb. Why not pull the police back to Copenhagen and have the military guard the borders, if you want the borders guarded and more policing? You're talking about the same people who wanted to ban burqas and established a burqa commission only to find out that nobody actually wore it. But really, military should only be deployed during invasions. On the other hand, maybe having soldiers confiscate jewelry from refugees will drive the point home for some people. Probably not.
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Aug 13, 2017 04:10
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So, you Danes are still doing that thing, huh? This is what happens when it's legal to buy booze in gas stations.
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Aug 13, 2017 10:17
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Why not simply sink Denmark into the sea? Seems like that would be better for everyone
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Aug 13, 2017 11:34
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Zzulu posted:Why not simply sink Denmark into the sea? Seems like that would be better for everyone no denmark is a our bulwark against atlantic and continental foes
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Aug 13, 2017 15:08
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Zzulu posted:Why not simply sink Denmark into the sea? Seems like that would be better for everyone Listen, give it some time. Whole world is working on it, we're drilling new oil wells as fast as we can. Wild Horses posted:no denmark is a our bulwark against atlantic and continental foes Why have a bulwark when we can have a moat instead?
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Aug 13, 2017 15:20
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Allowing an enemy fleet to just waltz into östersjön just will not do. You need to be a sort of picket fence 
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Aug 13, 2017 20:07
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Nice piece of fish posted:Listen, give it some time. Whole world is working on it, we're drilling new oil wells as fast as we can.
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Aug 13, 2017 20:12
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Wild Horses posted:Allowing an enemy fleet to just waltz into östersjön just will not do. You need to be a sort of picket fence 
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Aug 13, 2017 21:13
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Zzulu posted:Why not simply sink Denmark into the sea? Seems like that would be better for everyone You have a strong argument and I must concede. If chalky water shat us into existence, it can surely reclaim us. *lights a candle for Stig Helmer*
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Aug 14, 2017 02:56
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Actually, a flooded Denmark is a terrible idea. Then they'll all come up here to live on our mountain. And there isn't room.
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Aug 14, 2017 07:32
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Nice piece of fish posted:Actually, a flooded Denmark is a terrible idea. Then they'll all come up here to live on our mountain. And there isn't room.
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Aug 14, 2017 07:44
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Nice piece of fish posted:Actually, a flooded Denmark is a terrible idea. Then they'll all come up here to live on our mountain. And there isn't room. I'd think the danes would honor their cultural heritage and go pillage the continent.
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Aug 14, 2017 08:55
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MiddleOne posted:I'd think the danes would honor their cultural heritage and go pillage the continent. Vikings 2.0 let's all go loot Gotland again. Actually they would probably just stay and spend all their loot on the massive amounts of bars and restaurants that island has now. Or become Game Devs.
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Aug 14, 2017 11:38
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So, the right is pushing the "antifa is at fault" angle pretty hard, and most of the media seems pretty content to at the very least play into the "they're both bad" narrative. The former's interest is obvious; the nazis are cowards and antifa is effectively keeping them from gathering enough momentum to set upon their favorite type of targets i.e defenseless ones. I am curious about the agenda of the media though. If everything was on the level I'd expect condemnation of antifa from a pacifist perspective, or even an anti-vigilantism one, but it seems more muddled than that. Are we seeing this narrative forming because capital are afraid that an effective citizen-based response to the rise of the hard-right will galvanize the left, or am I being paranoid?
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Aug 14, 2017 16:40
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Narrative forming? Hasn't antifa violence always been portrayed as being as-bad if not worse than far right violence?
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Aug 14, 2017 16:48
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If you portray antifa as bad you avoid antagonizing the borderline fascist media base, who gets to go on thinking it's just a few bad apples on the nazi side. Aka, it's ok to blame all ills on
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Aug 14, 2017 16:55
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A Buttery Pastry posted:Narrative forming? Hasn't antifa violence always been portrayed as being as-bad if not worse than far right violence? Any form of political violence in a democracy ( like the whole of Western Europe) is per default bad. Saying one side is more bad is missing the point. In a democracy you have numerous nonviolent ways of having influence on politics. In general, those who does political violence are people who either doesn't understand or have the patience of the democratic process.
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Aug 14, 2017 16:56
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Biomute posted:Are we seeing this narrative forming because capital are afraid that an effective citizen-based response to the rise of the hard-right will galvanize the left, or am I being paranoid? A = "Antifa are leftists" B = "Antifa are bad" A + B = "The Left is bad"
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Aug 14, 2017 17:00
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Cardiac posted:In a democracy ( like the whole of Western Europe) is per default bad. Also, punching nazis is never bad. Hope this helps.
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Aug 14, 2017 17:02
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Cardiac posted:Any form of political violence in a democracy ( like the whole of Western Europe) is per default bad. MLK jr. posted:First, I must confess that over the last few years I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro's great stumbling block in the stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen's Council-er or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate who is more devoted to "order" than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says "I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I can't agree with your methods of direct action;" who paternalistically feels he can set the timetable for another man's freedom; who lives by the myth of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait until a "more convenient season.
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Aug 14, 2017 17:21
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Cardiac posted:Any form of political violence in a democracy ( like the whole of Western Europe) is per default bad. Most democratic countries have a police and a military though, and we use them for political means all the time. I don't think you can really frame antifa as being non-democratic. They're pro-punching violent nazis in the face, but that's more vigilantism surely?
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Aug 14, 2017 17:48
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If you're going to have any meaningful discussion on this the both of you need to stop conflating the American Antifa chapters with our Scandinavian Antifa chapters. Decide on which on you're actually discussing because while they might share a name and some ideals they are in fact not the same.
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Aug 14, 2017 18:06
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What is the difference apart from their location and the situation? Things are worse in the US now, but they've been pretty bad here at times too. I kinda figured they were interchangeable as far as discussions regarding their opposition and legitimacy were concerned, but I'd love to learn more.
thotsky fucked around with this message at 18:41 on Aug 14, 2017 |
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Aug 14, 2017 18:33
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You don't consider differences in location and situation important for a political organization? Like where do I even begin 
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Aug 14, 2017 18:40
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Antifa, as far as I understand, is a loose-knit umbrella term for a bunch of different organizations and individuals, with widely differing views aside from the fact that they oppose facism. Last I heard, that was true for both Norway and Internationally. If the entire point of the label is to have a general term and banner discussing them in general should be totally fine. What distinction between Scandinavian antifa and American antifa that we have missed is it you find important enough to get upset about? All we've said so far is that they dislike nazis and are willing to use violence to oppose them if needed, and I did not realize that was up for debate.
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Aug 14, 2017 18:47
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Because they are not the same. Their members do not act under any common sort of organizational framework (except in the loosest sense ). They do not oppose the same groups and organizations. They do not operate under the same historical and societal baggage. They do not have the same contemporary political situation. That they are based on the same principles and operate under the same brand does not imply that they are interchangeable. In the current US political climate there are too many legitimate reasons to count for an organization like Antifa to exist both in the justice system, in government and on the streets. I would not say the same for Sweden or Norway. We are not there yet.
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Aug 14, 2017 19:11
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MiddleOne posted:Because they are not the same. Their members do not act under any common sort of organizational framework (except in the loosest sense ). They do not oppose the same groups and organizations. They do not operate under the same historical and societal baggage. They do not have the same contemporary political situation. That they are based on the same principles and operate under the same brand does not imply that they are interchangeable. e: You added the second paragraph after I had loaded the page but before I quoted it. I see your point, though I disagree. Waiting for things to get to the point they are in the US does not seem prudent. A Buttery Pastry fucked around with this message at 19:18 on Aug 14, 2017 |
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Aug 14, 2017 19:15
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Because Cardiac made this argument.quote:Any form of political violence in a democracy ( like the whole of Western Europe) is per default bad. If he'd made that argument in any of the USpol threads I'd be right there with you. However, within the context of Scandinavian politics that is a valid argument. The political situation in the US has deteriorated in the last 2 years to a situation where it might as well be considered alien to ours. EDIT: quote:e: You added the second paragraph after I had loaded the page but before I quoted it. I see your point, though I disagree. Waiting for things to get to the point they are in the US does not seem prudent. Agreed, but I don't see political violence as helpful in stopping us from getting there. MiddleOne fucked around with this message at 19:23 on Aug 14, 2017 |
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Aug 14, 2017 19:20
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MiddleOne posted:We are not there yet. Benjamin? Or if your memory is bad, how about Utøya? These people should not be given an inch. Conditions in the US have given them the numbers and the equipment to act more boldly than the scumfucks we've got here, but you better believe they're looking to imitate. Their own words is that they have to rely on impromptu illegal marches here precisely because they are afraid of antifa. That is a far preferable situation to allowing them to gather and organize unopposed.
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Aug 14, 2017 20:03
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Even then, the police are far more likely to arrest counter-demonstrators than the actual Nazis as seen here a couple of weeks ago.
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Aug 14, 2017 20:10
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Yeah the brown shirt wannabes tried to show up here and we just followed them around. Making fun of them in foreign languages. Also, shitloads of residents called the 5-0 complaining that they made them feel unsafe, and asking what they were doing about it. The 5-0 loves that as you can imagine.
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Aug 14, 2017 20:22
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evil_bunnY posted:Yeah the brown shirt wannabes tried to show up here and we just followed them around. Making fun of them in foreign languages. Yeah, no. Anti-fascists in Norway used violence against nazis: http://www.dagbladet.no/kultur/vi-ofret-mye-i-kampen-mot-nynazistene/61482196 Mainly because just making fun of people that are trying to bomb you isn't a survivable strategy.
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Aug 14, 2017 21:13
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Ours hadn't gotten around to bombing, they were outsiders pretending to be concerned citizens, and were going to start patrolling "problematic" areas that just happened to coincide with where most non-native swedes lived. It lasted all of about a week. TBQH I was legit concerned for their safety because it's one thing to assault a brown person and slip away in the dead of night, and quite another to do it where they live, in the open. Had they put a hand on someone I really don't know if the locals would have left much to pick up.
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Aug 14, 2017 21:45
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