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Ice Phisherman posted:"Ironic" racism is great training wheels for just becoming an actual racist. Sad to say I participated in that until I recognized that I was becoming an actual racist as my mind does not distinguish between "ironic" racism and actual racism. "We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be." - Kurt Vonnegut
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Aug 13, 2017 11:31
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What is up with those silly homemade shields that the altright protestors are carrying around, is that a new thing?
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Aug 13, 2017 11:40
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Martian posted:What is up with those silly homemade shields that the altright protestors are carrying around, is that a new thing? Part cosplay, part cargo-culting police riot shields.
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Aug 13, 2017 11:42
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Inescapable Duck posted:Part cosplay, part cargo-culting police riot shields. They saw Antifa employing them in prior skirmishes like the inauguration or Berkeley, so they ended up following suit.
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Aug 13, 2017 11:54
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Young Freud posted:They saw Antifa employing them in prior skirmishes like the inauguration or Berkeley, so they ended up following suit. Pepe shields usually appear to be made out of cardboard. Its cosplay to look scary.
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Aug 13, 2017 11:55
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Carrying a shield without holding a weapon in the other hand seems a little passive agressive
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Aug 13, 2017 11:56
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Withnail posted:Carrying a shield without holding a weapon in the other hand seems a little passive agressive Well, from when I've seen Antifa use them, they were mostly to keep cops or skirmishers from continuing to arrest or hurt injured or gassed people. It was one of those tactics they developed from years of protesting.
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Aug 13, 2017 12:01
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I would argue curtailing speech can be dangerous. I think a lot failure lies with social and cultural norms allowing nazi types to exist openly rather than as more fringe groups living off the grid.
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Aug 13, 2017 12:03
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Sylink posted:I would argue curtailing speech can be dangerous. I think a lot failure lies with social and cultural norms allowing nazi types to exist openly rather than as more fringe groups living off the grid. Problem is seemingly the entire internet is 'off the grid' now
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Aug 13, 2017 12:05
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Young Freud posted:Well, from when I've seen Antifa use them, they were mostly to keep cops or skirmishers from continuing to arrest or hurt injured or gassed people. It was one of those tactics they developed from years of protesting. Kinda weird that this apparently isn't grounds to immediately classify the protest as non-peaceful for the police.
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Aug 13, 2017 12:05
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Randler posted:Kinda weird that this apparently isn't grounds to immediately classify the protest as non-peaceful for the police. If you put a tiny flag on a club or a logo on the shield they become protest signs and protected by the free speech
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Aug 13, 2017 12:09
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If only there was some mechanism to judge the difference in speech between "I read Mein Kampf once" and, "I want to physically hurt and bully people because my worldview literally cannot include them in my community, up to and including murder". Ah well I guess we just have to allow all speech then.
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Aug 13, 2017 12:15
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Count Roland posted:eugh, yeah I'm one that (often) likes wikileaks, and I'm not huge on BLM, but comparing them to the KKK, christ that is just not on. what pray tell is wrong with blm my man.
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Aug 13, 2017 12:28
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Sylink posted:I would argue curtailing speech can be dangerous. I think a lot failure lies with social and cultural norms allowing nazi types to exist openly rather than as more fringe groups living off the grid. I mean, the problem is that "addressing the cultural and economic causes of fascism" is a good idea and should be done, but there are Nazis here and now and that isn't gonna do a drat thing about them.
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Aug 13, 2017 12:34
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Gyges posted:Wait, are people just now learning that the ACLU works with Nazis to get them permits to march? They've always done that, it's like their signature bona fides for being neutral advocates for the first amendment. In practice, enabling Nazis to perform a march at Skokie, something they did strictly because a lot of holocaust survivors live there, did not ennoble our society and did not help non awful people in any sense I can see. And they'll waste massive resources chasing down cases for like repeat lifer bad actors who pretend to be jewish because the kosher meal is preferable to them. They should be out policing court orders for psych transfers to state psychiatric hospitals, and rendering pro bono appearances on forfeiture cases. But I guess that's just too parochial and unsexy.
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Aug 13, 2017 12:34
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Mendrian posted:If only there was some mechanism to judge the difference in speech between "I read Mein Kampf once" and, "I want to physically hurt and bully people because my worldview literally cannot include them in my community, up to and including murder". Ah well I guess we just have to allow all speech then. Slippery slope to Obama replacing all churches with Mosques. Edit: That's not even hyperbole. It's how people think.
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Aug 13, 2017 12:35
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https://twitter.com/waldojaquith/status/896566113974317058
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Aug 13, 2017 12:38
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Thank Christ at least one person at ACLU realized that "having a reputation for defending Nazis" isn't good for the organization.
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Aug 13, 2017 12:43
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Lightning Knight posted:I mean, the problem is that "addressing the cultural and economic causes of fascism" is a good idea and should be done, but there are Nazis here and now and that isn't gonna do a drat thing about them. They should be dealing with both and they should be doing it now.
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Aug 13, 2017 12:47
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Lightning Knight posted:Thank Christ at least one person at ACLU realized that "having a reputation for defending Nazis" isn't good for the organization. Agreed. edit: I'm not gonna lay out my full argument but when you'll go to bat for nazis but not black people reading books, it's not the first amendment you're protecting anymore. Koalas March fucked around with this message at 12:57 on Aug 13, 2017 |
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Aug 13, 2017 12:53
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Inescapable Duck posted:They should be dealing with both and they should be doing it now. Problem is, without the southern strategy they are literally incapable of addressing anything their base wants.
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Aug 13, 2017 12:56
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Lightning Knight posted:Thank Christ at least one person at ACLU realized that "having a reputation for defending Nazis" isn't good for the organization. Also agreed.
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Aug 13, 2017 12:57
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Randbrick posted:I've never understood that impulse of theirs. Voltaire had that quote about dying for the freedom of blah blah blah, but that was just some poo poo he said when he was drunk. Okay, it's because the laws that protect a nazi's right to peacefully protest are also protecting yours. So now you understand where they're coming from.
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Aug 13, 2017 12:59
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TyroneGoldstein posted:Problem is, without the southern strategy they are literally incapable of addressing anything their base wants. Yeah this is a real Come To Jesus moment for the moderate (how many of those are event left?) GOP members. Not just the elected officials either, but their staff as well.
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Aug 13, 2017 12:59
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Lightning Knight posted:Thank Christ at least one person at ACLU realized that "having a reputation for defending Nazis" isn't good for the organization. I mean, they've defended hardcore communists, nazis, and i'm pretty sure they've got one isis flag display under their belt. As an organization they seem unconcerned with which way their clients swing.
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Aug 13, 2017 13:02
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awesmoe posted:Okay, it's because the laws that protect a nazi's right to peacefully protest are also protecting yours. So now you understand where they're coming from. much freer societies than ours don't defend nazis marching through the neighborhoods of holocaust survivors.
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Aug 13, 2017 13:02
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1-800-DOCTORB posted:It's the Rocketeer. Check the video description. 
AceOfFlames fucked around with this message at 13:07 on Aug 13, 2017 |
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Aug 13, 2017 13:05
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awesmoe posted:Okay, it's because the laws that protect a nazi's right to peacefully protest are also protecting yours. So now you understand where they're coming from. Problem is it's not working, the cops beat on progressive and minority protesters at the first opportunity, and let the nazis do whatever until the counter-protesters start fighting back or the nazis get emboldened enough to start actually murdering people.
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Aug 13, 2017 13:06
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awesmoe posted:Okay, it's because the laws that protect a nazi's right to peacefully protest are also protecting yours. So now you understand where they're coming from. If you think you can be the first person to explain to me, concretely, functionally, exactly how and why either nsa v skokie or the aclus pattern of targeted nazi advocacy has in fact translated to positive outcomes for anyone not nazi, then please do. And if you really want some bonus points, the you'll take on the extra challenge of defending that litigation strategy in opportunity cost terms. I've been waiting and I can wait longer.
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Aug 13, 2017 13:10
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Koalas March posted:Yeah this is a real Come To Jesus moment for the moderate (how many of those are event left?) GOP members. Not just the elected officials either, but their staff as well. I got into it with someone yesterday about this, specifically some dingus going on about how this wasn't "The Party of Reagan," which gets trotted out by some milquetoast know-nothings from the burbs from time to time. It's like Lee Atwater never existed to these people. In a weird sort of way the Republican party did the opposite of what the democratic party did. The centrist 3rd Way coalition, whether on purpose or inadvertently, worked overtime to decouple economic justice from social justice while the GOP tightly wound the two together. So now the GOP is literally incapable of pushing their economic agenda without the outright implication that it will hurt some out-group. TyroneGoldstein fucked around with this message at 13:20 on Aug 13, 2017 |
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Aug 13, 2017 13:16
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awesmoe posted:Okay, it's because the laws that protect a nazi's right to peacefully protest are also protecting yours. So now you understand where they're coming from. A protest with the primary goal of "exterminating people we don't like" exists solely to incite violence even if it's just a bake sale and not angry men carrying torches.
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Aug 13, 2017 13:21
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Sadly there are people out there who genuinely believed their Grand Ol' Party was never racist, but the chickens are coming home to roost now.
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Aug 13, 2017 13:22
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awesmoe posted:Okay, it's because the laws that protect a nazi's right to peacefully protest are also protecting yours. So now you understand where they're coming from. They're nazis though. We don't really have plausible deniability about their end-game this time around, so maybe we shouldn't give them the benefit of the doubt.
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Aug 13, 2017 13:23
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awesmoe posted:Okay, it's because the laws that protect a nazi's right to peacefully protest are also protecting yours. So now you understand where they're coming from. I'm black, poor and I read books. I probably have a few ironic "kill whiteys" in my post history too. They ain't protecting me.
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Aug 13, 2017 13:23
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Krowley posted:They're nazis though. We don't really have plausible deniability about their end-game this time around, so maybe we shouldn't give them the benefit of the doubt. Yeah, it might not meet the legal definition of "imminent threat of violence" or whatever, but it meets the factual definition of "threat of eventual genocide".
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Aug 13, 2017 13:25
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Koalas March posted:I probably have a few ironic "kill whiteys" in my post history too. They were ironic? I'm white but I totally support that policy platform
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Aug 13, 2017 13:27
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I understand the impulse in like a 1950s Era understanding of American racial politics. If you can get good case law on protest rights from a nazi fact pattern, you would think that this would work for everybody else, because you've got solid viewpoint discrimination precedent for the worst viewpoint. In practice, though, nazi's are not the worst viewpoint legally. They are in fact privileged above and beyond most black and lefty viewpoints. Also ignores the fact that nazi's can get their own drat lawyers.
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Aug 13, 2017 13:29
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WeAreTheRomans posted:They were ironic? I'm white but I totally support that policy platform 
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Aug 13, 2017 13:29
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I don't like this new Caddyshack reboot. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mOD0XCm57d8 Goffer posted:robocops take on nazis You really suck. You mentioned Robocop, I thought I was gonna see some dick shooting.
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Aug 13, 2017 13:32
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awesmoe posted:Okay, it's because the laws that protect a nazi's right to peacefully protest are also protecting yours. So now you understand where they're coming from. The past history of this country shows that any 'slippery slope' argument about stuff like this is stupid because THEY ALREADY DID. Nothing has terrified the powers that be in this country more than leftist organizations.
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Aug 13, 2017 13:33
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