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Tom Perez B/K/M? This poll is closed. |
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JeffersonClay posted:Conservatives in the 1930's were anti-immigration. They made exactly the argument people in this thread have made-- immigrants drive down wages for american workers. Yes, the point is that the argument isn't specifically related to immigration. He specifically says it happens any time the labor pool shrinks and has been used against things like strikes, etc. edit: Basically the point is that "crops will go unpicked*" is not a good argument against a policy. *or its equivalent adapted to some other industry
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Aug 13, 2017 23:44
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Ytlaya posted:Yes, the point is that the argument isn't specifically related to immigration. He specifically says it happens any time the labor pool shrinks and has been used against things like strikes, etc. "crops will go unpicked" is the implicit threat if farm workers going on strike. They know that's a bad thing, and they leverage it to get better wages. "crops will go unpicked" is a reason the union's demands should be met, and is also a reason we shouldn't deport a bunch of farm workers. suggesting that "immigrants are necessary and good for our economy" is somehow a conservative argument from the 30's is ahistorical nonsense
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Aug 13, 2017 23:50
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WampaLord posted:Absolutely yes. Your boss can say "I'm firing you because you're a Democrat/Republican/Independent/whatever" and there's nothing legally wrong with that. On one hand, that's utterly despicable. On the other hand, Nazis. So conflicted...  Considering that "house cleaning" happens every time the White House administration switches parties, I'm surprised I didn't realize this sooner. Mister Facetious fucked around with this message at 00:20 on Aug 14, 2017 |
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Aug 14, 2017 00:16
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JeffersonClay posted:This sounds a lot like talking about the economic impacts of immigration which is the sin Kamala Harris was guilty of. Have y'all lost the thread that quickly? Actually, it's not at all. Can you seriously not differentiate the difference between Kamala Harris's tweet, which focused only on the cold, detached agricultural impact from deportations, whereas the discussion of universally improved labor standards and wages bears a direct relationship in the overall quality of people's lives? I know that you're a dishonest gently caress and will do anything you can to avoid having to discuss the latter, but this is getting embarrassing!
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Aug 14, 2017 00:17
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MooselanderII posted:Actually, it's not at all. Can you seriously not differentiate the difference between Kamala Harris's tweet, which focused only on the cold, detached agricultural impact from deportations, whereas the discussion of universally improved labor standards and wages bears a direct relationship in the overall quality of people's lives? I know that you're a dishonest gently caress and will do anything you can to avoid having to discuss the latter, but this is getting embarrassing! Again, Kamala Harris got the backing of the UFW in her past senate election and she talks consistently about many reasons we should oppose deportations in addition to their impact on our labor force and economy. I know you're a dishonest gently caress and will do anything you can to avoid having to discuss anything but one tweet, but this is getting embarrassing!
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Aug 14, 2017 00:31
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JeffersonClay posted:i was responding to a post suggesting "immigrants help the economy" is warmed over 1930's conservatism, learn to read crew Actually, I was referring to the Agricultural Adjustment Act of the New Deal. This isn't directly related to the idea of immigration, just the idea of vegetables rotting as a result of supply/demand. After a severe shortage in Europe after WWI, America ramped up its production so much that when prices started to fall, a lot of farmers were putting up their farms for mortgages. The Agricultural Adjustment Act paid farmers to cut back production by 30%. Although at this point, prices were so low that vegetables were already rotting, the short-term massive increase produced an unpopular Great Depression image of “hundreds of carloads of vegetables rot on siding” while millions go hungry. Ytlaya posted:The conservative argument he's referring to is using "crops will go to waste" as an economic argument any time people take action that creates a temporary shortage in labor (for example labor strikes). Yes, exactly. I brought this up because Kamala Harris brought up vegetable rot as a result as a cutback of production being evidence that a policy must be wrong. I did nothing to suggest that "immigrants are good for the economy" is a conservative argument. So, JeffersonClay's attempt to deflect onto "guilt by association" with FDR's racism, like something out of Jeffrey Lord's rhetoric, was not only tacky, it was needless. Perhaps it is JeffersonClay who should learn to read. galenanorth fucked around with this message at 00:40 on Aug 14, 2017 |
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Aug 14, 2017 00:37
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JeffersonClay posted:Again, Kamala Harris got the backing of the UFW in her past senate election and she talks consistently about many reasons we should oppose deportations in addition to their impact on our labor force and economy. I know you're a dishonest gently caress and will do anything you can to avoid having to discuss anything but one tweet, but this is getting embarrassing! And yet you personally avoid discussing how labor standards should be universally improved!
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Aug 14, 2017 00:39
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Mister Facetious posted:On one hand, that's utterly despicable. gently caress it, if we're going to live in a country with no worker rights, might as well exploit the poo poo out of that loophole when it works in our favor. Fire all Nazis. Obviously in an ideal world we would have the best workers rights, the most fabulous rights, just the best!
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Aug 14, 2017 00:40
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MooselanderII posted:And yet you personally avoid discussing how labor standards should be universally improved! They should and Kamala Harris agrees. The vendetta you have against the woman is pathetic. galenanorth posted:Actually, I was referring to the Agricultural Adjustment Act of the New Deal. This isn't directly related to the idea of immigration, just the idea of vegetables rotting as a result of supply/demand. After a severe shortage in Europe after WWI, America ramped up its production so much that when prices started to fall, a lot of farmers were putting up their farms for mortgages. The Agricultural Adjustment Act paid farmers to cut back production by 30%. Although at this point, prices were so low that vegetables were already rotting, the short-term massive increase produced an unpopular Great Depression image of “hundreds of carloads of vegetables rot on siding” while millions go hungry. I'm pretty sure it wasn't just conservatives who were upset with produce rotting on the vine as people were starving during the Great Depression. Was Steinbeck channeling Herbert Hoover in the grapes of wrath? Your argument is at least identifiable now that you've explained it but it's still terrible and ahistorical. And again, it's a good thing that democrats no longer espouse the racist anti-immigration policies they did during the depression.
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Aug 14, 2017 00:46
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http://www.cnn.com/2017/08/13/us/charlottesville-white-nationalist-rally-car-crash/index.html More centrist shitlords attacking leftists. Stop the hate, centrists!
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Aug 14, 2017 00:52
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Democrazy posted:Also, the New York Time is not a liberal paper, it is a paper of record which gives its opinion section to many people of many backgrounds lmao
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Aug 14, 2017 02:17
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yronic heroism posted:All your examples: "a Twitter said a mean thing." Because you can't scapegoat your hated centrist Dem politicians. The specific statement is that they were still doing a headcount of people who were at least there in an official IWW related capacity. At a time when her name was still kept secret. Also she still wasn't a centrist.
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Aug 14, 2017 02:38
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Agnosticnixie posted:The specific statement is that they were still doing a headcount of people who were at least there in an official IWW related capacity. At a time when her name was still kept secret. Also she still wasn't a centrist. If it was up to centrists the nazi march would have been a resounding success and plenty of 'moderates' would be scratching their chins and going "Hmm, maybe there's something to this, I guess the Democratic party -should- be more racist!"
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Aug 14, 2017 02:57
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Mister Facetious posted:Considering that "house cleaning" happens every time the White House administration switches parties, I'm surprised I didn't realize this sooner. This isn't entirely true, it used to be the way things were back in the 1800s but nowadays only the heads of departments and certain other positions are political appointees, while most parts of the government are run by career civil servants that are hired and operate by fairly conventional standards. Observe the conflict between Sessions and the regular members of the Justice Department who told him to gently caress off when he went fishing for a method to poo poo on affirmative action. This is where the whole "deep state" nonsense comes from. WampaLord posted:gently caress it, if we're going to live in a country with no worker rights, might as well exploit the poo poo out of that loophole when it works in our favor. I mean like I said, you wouldn't fire them because of their political affiliation, you'd fire them because being a Nazi creates a hostile working environment and hinders your ability to hire talent that won't work with someone who wants them to die, as well as opening you up to harassment lawsuits. That would continue to be perfectly valid if we got rid of the ability to fire because of political affiliation alone.
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Aug 14, 2017 03:28
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Agnosticnixie posted:The specific statement is that they were still doing a headcount of people who were at least there in an official IWW related capacity. At a time when her name was still kept secret. Also she still wasn't a centrist. I never said she was a centrist, however this thread has chosen to define that today. I'm saying condiv appears to be loving lying about the IWW claim. Because condiv gonna condiv. For the record, the IWW general defense committee released a statement that they knew of no seriously injured or dead members, and this was released about 4pm today, well after her name was released. But by all means keep spreading misinformation, it makes this miserable thread so much better.
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Aug 14, 2017 04:25
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it's better than your posts tbqh
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Aug 14, 2017 04:34
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It's odd to see purported IRL leftists fall prey to the Twitter delusion (e.g., Condiv posting a bunch of tweets of random people and screaming about neoliberals in the midst of the Cville tragegy) regardless of your political inclination, don't pretend that donating to CTH or following Twitter arguments are a substitute for real life engagement in politics
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Aug 14, 2017 04:49
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C. Everett Koop posted:God forbid we actually look at the actual causes of these events and not just hand-wring and tweet for points. We're in this mess because of eight years of King Hussein more concerned about his legacy and "ReAcHiNg AcRoSs ThE aIsLe" while fueling a groundswell of white nationalism that he refused to acknowledge which took over the local governments, followed up by the Dems nominating a literal slaveowner to go against Trump, the one person who had no good counters to any of his points or flaws. lol go gently caress your self
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Aug 14, 2017 05:06
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yronic heroism posted:I'm saying condiv appears to be loving lying about the IWW claim. Because condiv gonna condiv. It's not so much lying as it is just being really credulous towards any information that seems to align with a preconceived worldview. This is something people of all political persuasions are guilty of; it's just more visible when someone's worldview doesn't align with the mainstream (i.e. there are a bunch of people who are aren't any smarter but choose the path of least resistance of just blindly supporting a political partly, which usually stands out less).
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Aug 14, 2017 05:09
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yronic heroism posted:I never said she was a centrist, however this thread has chosen to define that today. just going off what information i had available to me at the time yronic. we know she was definitely not a centrist though  yronic heroism posted:All your examples: "a Twitter said a mean thing." Because you can't scapegoat your hated centrist Dem politicians. you asked for proof of centrists being poo poo and i gave you the proof. you responded to someone saying centrists were being shitheads all day by asking for proof, and i gave you what you asked for. i can't help the fact that you're so dumb you saw someone talking about centrists and immediately thought "they're talking about hillary clinton!! i gotta defend her!!!" centrist politicos are smarter than their idiot supporters for the most part (looking at you neera tanden) and know not to do the slimy poo poo their supporters were doing in the immediate aftermath of a tragedy Condiv fucked around with this message at 08:43 on Aug 14, 2017 |
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Aug 14, 2017 08:22
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Condiv posted:just going off what information i had available to me at the time What information? From where? Just repeating whatever random poo poo you hear that is convenient at the time? gently caress off. Stop posting.
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Aug 14, 2017 09:07
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Once more, for reference.Condiv posted:the left sure is united. centrists however had a good time yesterday punching left though. lot of "both sides!" out of them yesterday as a leftist got killed by a murderous fascist So it's "disgusting and vile" to make up poo poo (or parrot someone else who made up poo poo) about someone who died a high profile death so you can claim they were part of your little club? Got it. gently caress you for doing exactly that.
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Aug 14, 2017 09:13
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Ok what the gently caress. Even if she was the most die-hard Bill Clinton apologist she still was murdered by a Nazi driving through a crowd, come the gently caress on guys.
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Aug 14, 2017 09:41
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yronic heroism posted:Once more, for reference. Nah it's disgusting and vile to claim her as a centrist when we know she isn't. Why don't you cry a little more cause I said the same centrists who froth at the mouth about bernie bros tried to claim a bernie bro as their own.
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Aug 14, 2017 09:42
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Lightning Knight posted:Ok what the gently caress. Even if she was the most die-hard Bill Clinton apologist she still was murdered by a Nazi driving through a crowd, come the gently caress on guys. Yronic doesn't post in good faith in this thread, and never has. He's a more boring JC
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Aug 14, 2017 09:45
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JeffersonClay posted:They should and Kamala Harris agrees. The vendetta you have against the woman is pathetic. Haha, get hosed, JC. You have spent so much time concern trolling against raising labor standards at home and abroad on this forum. I would certainly hope Kamala Harris doesn't follow the same tack.
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Aug 14, 2017 11:46
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yronic heroism posted:gently caress you for doing exactly that. the horror, THE HORROR MooselanderII posted:Haha, get hosed, JC. You have spent so much time concern trolling against raising labor standards at home and abroad on this forum. I would certainly hope Kamala Harris doesn't follow the same tack. pro tip, just accept you're going to be racesexist in these people's eyes, they can't help themselves NewForumSoftware fucked around with this message at 13:43 on Aug 14, 2017 |
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Aug 14, 2017 13:41
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Did you guys hear about that Health Insurance Actuary rally in Charlottesville?
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Aug 14, 2017 13:44
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Reik posted:Did you guys hear about that Health Insurance Actuary rally in Charlottesville? to be fair neonazis don't have quite as much blood on their hands if you had an unironic health insurance actuary you'd have cars streaming into people left and right
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Aug 14, 2017 13:46
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NewForumSoftware posted:to be fair neonazis don't have quite as much blood on their hands Only if the people getting hit were covered by our competitors.
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Aug 14, 2017 13:56
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Reik posted:Did you guys hear about that Health Insurance Actuary rally in Charlottesville? did you seriously just come in to the thread for people to dump on you some more? we get it. you love your industry, and your industry loves depriving people of healthcare
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Aug 14, 2017 14:03
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i for one am a fan of the longform counter-godwin at least Reik posts honestly
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Aug 14, 2017 14:05
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Condiv posted:Yronic doesn't post in good faith in this thread, and never has. He's a more boring JC Good faith? You're the that got caught in a lie. What was your source? Someone who got their info from Fox again?
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Aug 14, 2017 14:27
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Ytlaya posted:It's not so much lying as it is just being really credulous towards any information that seems to align with a preconceived worldview. This is something people of all political persuasions are guilty of; it's just more visible when someone's worldview doesn't align with the mainstream (i.e. there are a bunch of people who are aren't any smarter but choose the path of least resistance of just blindly supporting a political partly, which usually stands out less). It's bad faith and dishonest either way you slice it.
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Aug 14, 2017 14:31
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NewForumSoftware posted:the horror, THE HORROR My favorite is when they ignore obvious minorities on twitter posting the exact same opinion to go after white leftists to call them racist.
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Aug 14, 2017 14:49
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Peven Stan posted:My favorite is when they ignore obvious minorities on twitter posting the exact same opinion to go after white leftists to call them racist. They've been ignoring minorities for decades, why start now?
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Aug 14, 2017 14:54
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MooselanderII posted:Haha, get hosed, JC. You have spent so much time concern trolling against raising labor standards at home and abroad on this forum. I would certainly hope Kamala Harris doesn't follow the same tack. The most significant way to raise labor standards for farm workers right now is amnesty and a path to citizenship for undocumented immigrants, which we have both unwaveringly advocated. You tried to slur her record and views here, and have been outed as a fool.
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Aug 14, 2017 15:07
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JeffersonClay posted:The most significant way to raise labor standards for farm workers right now is amnesty and a path to citizenship for undocumented immigrants, which we have both unwaveringly advocated. You tried to slur her record and views here, and have been outed as a fool. So the farms are going to suddenly start paying those workers a legal wage, and not fire them and immediately seek out another source of below-minimum wage labour?
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Aug 14, 2017 15:12
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Inescapable Duck posted:So the farms are going to suddenly start paying those workers a legal wage, and not fire them and immediately seek out another source of below-minimum wage labour? farm workers already get paid less than minimum wage
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Aug 14, 2017 15:14
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NewForumSoftware posted:farm workers already get paid less than minimum wage That was literally what he said
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