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"Violence is bad" is not mutually exclusive with "punch violent and threatening people". Fight fire with fire.
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Aug 14, 2017 16:09
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Pembroke Fuse posted:People aren't rational automatons, which is the point I was trying to get across. Doing things that will hurt you in the long run is a mainstay of the human species. Realizing that this isn't all "free-will moral responsibility bootstraps" poo poo is part of it. People are basket cases of bad programming, built in biases and social constructs. Pulling them out of that culture and social setting is paramount to getting them to change their minds. Ah, sorry, I misunderstood you. Absolutely, removing them from their horrible echo Chambers and exposing them to reality is tops, agreed. This kind of poo poo never stands up to the light of day.
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Aug 14, 2017 16:10
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Xae posted:It isn't anxiety though. It is economic entitlement. They feel like they are owed a coushy upper middle class job and lifestyle by virtue of being white and male. Entitlement is anxiety. It's anxiety over not getting the bad bill of goods that the Capitalist system sold them. Capitalism and patriarchy convinced them they were ubermensch breadwinner samurai sex gods. Then it hosed them over and left them holding the bag for climate change, student debt, a crumbling society and a world in which everything they've been taught doesn't matter. They were sold horseshit and they're handling it in the worst way possible, but it's not just a "hurr durr free-will themselves to make better decisions" situation.
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Aug 14, 2017 16:10
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Pembroke Fuse posted:Entitlement is anxiety. It's anxiety over not getting the bad bill of goods that the Capitalist system sold them. Capitalism and patriarchy convinced them they were ubermensch breadwinner samurai sex gods. Then it hosed them over and left them holding the bag for climate change, student debt, a crumbling society and a world in which everything they've been taught doesn't matter. They were sold horseshit and they're handling it in the worst way possible, but it's not just a "hurr durr free-will themselves to make better decisions" situation. Entitlement can also lead to bad financial decisions such as buying a $60,000 pickup every three years and a $40,000 ski boat and a $300,000 house when you have an unstable source of income which is actually being whittled away by the greater economy. When you have that many overpriced toys it's really easy to lose sleep at night wondering how you're going to make all of their payments. But it's your property because you bought it so by God you deserve to have it! that's entitlement.
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Aug 14, 2017 16:14
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Hello, I'd like to inform you that there are physical consequences for being an actual real Nazi that is inciting violence, coercion, bullying and murdering. For example, the Nazis we saw in Charlottesville this weekend. See: history
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Aug 14, 2017 16:15
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WampaLord posted:I'm loving sick of this argument. "All violence is bad" has become the refrain of the idiot. Violence is justified in some cases. Punch all Nazis. Sometimes, a violent option will be the least bad option - e.g., when there's a concentration camp to be liberated. But "punching nazis" - even, right now, the handful of actual nazis - is nothing of the sorts. It's bad on every level. E.g., I'm sure it's strongly counter-productive: straight-forwardly playing into their narrative.
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Aug 14, 2017 16:15
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evilweasel posted:its worth remembering that just because someone is a garbage person doesn't mean their family is: Hey you got a link to the news story on this.
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Aug 14, 2017 16:16
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Forgall posted:Glad you live in a magical world where nothing goes wrong during protests and nobody does anything stupid. Most of the people talking about the bad tactics of antifa have no concept of what it means to be in a large group. God help them if they ever are to be blamed for the sins of everyone on a single street. Then again most stupid political opinions relate to an inability to think in large societal structures.
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Aug 14, 2017 16:16
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Cingulate posted:All violence is bad. Suffering is bad. Even the suffering of bad people is suffering.  God, you're like a parody of a bleeding heart. We waged war to be free of the British, we waged war to end slavery, we waged war to stop the Nazis. "All violence is bad" though  gently caress you.
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Aug 14, 2017 16:18
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Cingulate posted:All violence is bad. Suffering is bad. Even the suffering of bad people is suffering. Please just shut yourself into a bathroom and masturbate like a regular person instead of jacking yourself off here.
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Aug 14, 2017 16:18
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Hollismason posted:Hey you got a link to the news story on this. Whoops: http://www.inforum.com/opinion/letters/4311880-letter-family-denounces-teffts-racist-rhetoric-and-actions http://www.inforum.com/news/4311766-local-man-called-out-social-media-after-attending-nationalist-rally-virginia
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Aug 14, 2017 16:18
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Cingulate posted:All violence is bad. Suffering is bad. Even the suffering of bad people is suffering. The rights of the people are to feel safe in their homes. By any means necessary. All who threaten those rights must be stopped with extreme prejudice. Including Nazis. It's that simple.
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Aug 14, 2017 16:18
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Peacoffee posted:Most of the people talking about the bad tactics of antifa have no concept of what it means to be in a large group. God help them if they ever are to be blamed for the sins of everyone on a single street. Then again most stupid political opinions relate to an inability to think in large societal structures. Krispy Kareem posted:No, I was referring to their efforts before the Virginia march.
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Aug 14, 2017 16:19
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Pembroke Fuse posted:Entitlement is anxiety. It's anxiety over not getting the bad bill of goods that the Capitalist system sold them. Capitalism and patriarchy convinced them they were ubermensch breadwinner samurai sex gods. Then it hosed them over and left them holding the bag for climate change, student debt, a crumbling society and a world in which everything they've been taught doesn't matter. They were sold horseshit and they're handling it in the worst way possible, but it's not just a "hurr durr free-will themselves to make better decisions" situation. Hurr Durr everything is 100% free will is just as dumb as the hurr Durr nothing is their fault bullshit you're peddling. 100% of white male Millenials are not alt-right poo poo heads because people aren't automatons. Trying to blame "the system" is just making excuses for them to the point where it is bordering on being an apologist for then. They didn't slip, fall and end up at a Nazi rally by accident.
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Aug 14, 2017 16:19
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Cingulate posted:All violence is bad. Suffering is bad. Even the suffering of bad people is suffering. Looks like is turning this Nazi around https://twitter.com/bakedalaska/status/896913077060255744
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Aug 14, 2017 16:19
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Cingulate posted:All violence is bad. Suffering is bad. Even the suffering of bad people is suffering. Nazi's don't get to pull a persecution narrative, we've spent almost a century learning this.
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Aug 14, 2017 16:19
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But seriously gently caress Nazis. You're going to come into my community and tell my wife and my daughter we should be exterminated because of the color of my skin? I will loving shoot you on the spot and I will feel zero remorse.
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Aug 14, 2017 16:20
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evilweasel posted:Whoops: Stopped reading at "...shared my home and hearth with those of all races" Nah son, just stop. Black people were not a significant part of your racist son's upbringing.
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Aug 14, 2017 16:20
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Google Butt posted:Looks like is turning this Nazi around He may have some trouble looking anywhere.
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Aug 14, 2017 16:21
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"Won't somebody think of the coffee shops?" Said nobody between 1939-1945.
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Aug 14, 2017 16:21
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Dejawesp posted:I thought it was to emphasize the connection between heritage and nation. That your nationality is a matter of your genes and not your residence.  no, in europe "blood and soil" is also a nazi slogan, what the gently caress
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Aug 14, 2017 16:21
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Cingulate posted:The G20 videos often show small groups of masked men lighting stuff on fire. What are you even getting at here. Do you have proof that this was explicitly an antifa "thing" instead of some bullshit assholes typically do at protests and riots?
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Aug 14, 2017 16:21
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The idea that Nazis and the Klan won't back down from a fight is complete horseshit that originated with them and them only. In practice, they're suburban white kids and fat rednecks who, when met with the same force, will run away with their tail between their legs. The messaging of Nazis and the Klan is dependent on whataboutism, and everyone who gives into that messaging is helping the spread of fascism. "Violence should never be an option" pearl-clutching is a result of leftists with a terrible education on the motivations of non-violent movements. Successful non-violent movements throughout history are not born out of some buddhist philosophy, but out of the fact that they're effective for getting international condemnation of their enemies. There have, in fact, been successful violent responses to far-right bullshit. Xombie fucked around with this message at 16:25 on Aug 14, 2017 |
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Aug 14, 2017 16:22
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If you defend people calling to put my wife and child in ovens because of the color of their skin you are no worse then they are. Seriously. gently caress you enabler.
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Aug 14, 2017 16:23
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Cingulate posted:All violence is bad. Suffering is bad. Even the suffering of bad people is suffering. Nazis will claim to be persecuted literally no matter what you do. You suck their dick and give them money they'll scream "white genocide" because you didn't gargle before you swallowed and only had a fiver. It's not a rational position, and it's sure as poo poo not one taken in good faith.
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Aug 14, 2017 16:23
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coyo7e posted:Entitlement can also lead to bad financial decisions such as buying a $60,000 pickup every three years and a $40,000 ski boat and a $300,000 house when you have an unstable source of income which is actually being whittled away by the greater economy. When you have that many overpriced toys it's really easy to lose sleep at night wondering how you're going to make all of their payments. But it's your property because you bought it so by God you deserve to have it! that's entitlement. This is very true. People are literally chasing consumerism like an addiction and it's burying them. There is some personal responsibility here, but anyone who thinks that society didn't sell them this loving dream from every corner, TV set, advertisement and pronouncement is fooling themselves. They're on the hook and don't have the political education to see an alternative.
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Aug 14, 2017 16:23
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Listen, I subscribe to the belief that tolerance is intolerance of intolerance. As soon as what you have to say amounts to wishing death and destruction on entire minority groups, you've instigated violence and will be met with the same.
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Aug 14, 2017 16:24
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Cingulate posted:The G20 videos often show small groups of masked men lighting stuff on fire. Brother, G-20 protesters include A LOT more than Antifa.
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Aug 14, 2017 16:24
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Google Butt posted:Looks like is turning this Nazi around Man I clicked that and read some of his tweets and retweets and replies and man I wish he had choked to death on the bear mace.
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Aug 14, 2017 16:24
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WampaLord posted:
The American revolution wasn't the most justified thing ever, but yeah
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Aug 14, 2017 16:25
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C2C - 2.0 posted:Brother, G-20 protesters include A LOT more than Antifa. Seriously. Cingulate, you've fallen for the RWM narrative of "that awful leftist antifa ruined everything!".
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Aug 14, 2017 16:25
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Xombie posted:The idea that Nazis and the Klan won't back down from a fight is complete horseshit that originated with them and them only. In practice, they're suburban white kids and fat rednecks who, when met with force, will run away with their tail between their legs. Yes. There has to be some sort of cost to participating in Nazi rallies and promoting Nazism. It can be the chance of someone killing you or hurting you psychically or the chance of being exposed as a Nazi and accepting the financial and social consequences that comes with that. I'm good with all of the above. Nazis need to be made scared.
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Aug 14, 2017 16:25
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Blue Footed Booby posted:Nazis will claim to be persecuted literally no matter what you do Which depends on whose blood is on the pavement. Pollyanna posted:What are you even getting at here. Do you have proof that this was explicitly an antifa "thing" instead of some bullshit assholes typically do at protests and riots? Google Butt posted:Looks like is turning this Nazi around ThisIsWhyTrumpWon posted:The rights of the people are to feel safe in their homes. By any means necessary. Eox posted:Nazi's don't get to pull a persecution narrative, we've spent almost a century learning this.
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Aug 14, 2017 16:26
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Xae posted:That is such bullshit. There were economic downturns and recessions before 2008. This is nonsense. It's not 1950s nostalgia to recognize that you and everyone you know are in more debt with shittier job prospects than recent generations. Full time work is vanishing and wages have been stagnant for 30 years while the only means to a better life gets more and more expensive. Yup that's all in their heads. This is the sort of bullshit news outlets and older generations peddle because recognizing the system is in a steady downward spiral requires some recognition of culpability. Better to just blame the millennials than attempt to fix the problem.
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Aug 14, 2017 16:26
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Mustached Demon posted:Thankfully it's just Nazis getting punched. What started the immediate conversation is a journalist getting punched by someone at a protest last night, though I think the consensus is he's a loving idiot who should be punching Nazis instead.
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Aug 14, 2017 16:26
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Please do not post corpses. These are the consequences of not standing up to Nazis. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Aug 14, 2017 16:27
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Pollyanna posted:Seriously. Cingulate, you've fallen for the RWM narrative of "that awful leftist antifa ruined everything!".
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Aug 14, 2017 16:27
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TIL every single protest that isn't by Nazis is by Antifa, thanks to this thread.
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Aug 14, 2017 16:27
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Chilichimp posted:Stopped reading at "...shared my home and hearth with those of all races" that's dumb, (a) he is not claiming "Black people were not a significant part of your racist son's upbringing", (b) maybe you should put a bit more effort before diagnosing the reasons this guy became such an unmitigated shithead as being the father's fault (c) since when is exposure to black people an inoculation against racism
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Aug 14, 2017 16:27
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Xae posted:Hurr Durr everything is 100% free will is just as dumb as the hurr Durr nothing is their fault bullshit you're peddling. 100% of white male Millenials are not alt-right poo poo heads because people aren't automatons. I didn't make an argument for 100% determinism. I recognize that agency exists. However, most of the debate is "stop reaching out to people because that implies victim blaming" and that's not particularly holistic. Please don't misrepresent my argument. I advocated for reaching out to "at risk" white male youth, not card-carrying Nazis. Those guys are done and only deserve punching.
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Aug 14, 2017 16:27
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