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bloom posted:The problem really is that she, and possibly the show, is trying to portray herself as a better than the previous ruling class. If she just rolled up with the dragons and went "nice continent, hand it over or else" it would make total sense. Giving fancy speeches about breaking the wheel and then burning people alive is going to raise a few eyebrows. Most eyebrow raising to me is that her huge speech about breaking chains and derailing the wheel got maybe three people kneeling, but "kneel or die" got about half of the crowd. Then proving that with dragons got everyone bending that knee.
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Aug 14, 2017 20:22
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DoctorG0nzo posted:I was sad that they never mentioned that the Tarlys stood with her father. Thought that would've counted for something. He won one of the few loyalist victories to boot IIRC. Burning them was entirely unnecessary. Edmure Tully spent years as a hostage on the show, so the "but they don't have the facilities for long term incarceration!" line of reasoning isn't really valid.
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Aug 14, 2017 20:33
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Or the Stark lady could have said hey thanks for arranging a marriage for me but I think I will marry the crown price, later haters.
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Aug 14, 2017 20:35
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tooterfish posted:Yeah. It wasn't just "the Tarlys" either, it was that Tarly in particular! She doesn’t want prisoners that can continue living and hating her and showing everyone else they can just refuse her and go to jail. She wants everyone to follow her. Or burn.
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Aug 14, 2017 20:41
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tooterfish posted:Robert didn't start the rebellion. Jon Arryn started the rebellion because the king demanded he behead his two wards, men who were like his sons, for the crime of being related to the people he'd just tortured to death. I'd say it was still Robert that started it. If he had just recognized that he had lost Lyanna to Rhaegar and not fought to try to keep her, everything would have been avoided. He says that Rhaegar kidnapped her, but I think he knew all along that she very intentionally ran off with him, and it was his jealous and rage that kicked everything off.
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Aug 14, 2017 20:49
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bloom posted:The problem really is that she, and possibly the show, is trying to portray herself as a better than the previous ruling class. If she just rolled up with the dragons and went "nice continent, hand it over or else" it would make total sense. Giving fancy speeches about breaking the wheel and then burning people alive is going to raise a few eyebrows. The show knows. They have main characters commenting on her actions and filmed the loot train to maximize the terror from the ground troops.
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Aug 14, 2017 20:51
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CornHolio posted:I'd say it was still Robert that started it. If he had just recognized that he had lost Lyanna to Rhaegar and not fought to try to keep her, everything would have been avoided. I think him kidnapping her is actually the mainstream interpretation in-universe.
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Aug 14, 2017 20:52
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Next week on Game of Thrones: - Bran travels to Meereen to meet with Daario Naharis, and then swings by Braavos at lunchtime to pick up Jaqen H'Ghar and bring them back to Winterfell. - Cersei and Dany range north of the wall and meet Benjen. Dany possibly falls in love with Benjen. - While Cersei is away, Tyrion sneaks back into King's Landing to throw the mother of all parties in the Red Keep. Bronn learns to skateboard. - Euron sails to, and destroys, the moon. - Sam steals a library book.
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Aug 14, 2017 21:01
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Night King makes it to the Red Keep then back beyond the wall two scenes later
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Aug 14, 2017 21:03
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fruit on the bottom posted:Night King makes it to the Red Keep then back beyond the wall two scenes later He definitely wouldn't miss Tyrion's party
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Aug 14, 2017 21:05
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fruit on the bottom posted:I think him kidnapping her is actually the mainstream interpretation in-universe. Seems more like they eloped and did it quickly because Elia was barren and Rhaegar wanted to bone. He was the crown prince, he didn't need to get married to bone Lyanna.
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Aug 14, 2017 21:06
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CornHolio posted:I'd say it was still Robert that started it. If he had just recognized that he had lost Lyanna to Rhaegar and not fought to try to keep her, everything would have been avoided. And again the rebellion wasn't started because of the kidnapping, that was just a catalyst. It was started because the king demanded that Jon Arryn murder what were in effect his own foster sons. Arryn replied "gently caress you, come and do your own dirty work".
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Aug 14, 2017 21:10
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It's a big thread so I haven't read through it to see what everyone else's opinion is, but I'm having a REALLY hard time enjoying the scenes with Cersei this season. I love her character but I'm so much more invested in what's happening with the white walkers coming. I'm enjoying seeing all these characters meet up together, I like Dany and all that stuff so I've enjoyed her and Jon Snow interacting, I loved the scene in the Eastwatch jail where all these different characters FINALLY meet and talk. That was a really fun scene. I like the stuff with Sansa in Winterfell, although I wish they kept Bran still being... Bran but with new powers, this new half-dead Bran is annoying. I'm even enjoying the stuff with Sam since it's directly connected to the stuff in the north. Like I dunno it's just you have this big obvious interesting threat that everyone in the north is taking seriously, and even Dany is starting to see that it's something to pay attention to. But I can't get into Cersei's stuff at all because it seems so pointless in the grand scheme of things. She doesn't and won't ever care about the White Walkers. This meeting they want to have with her to make her realize the threat is pointless, it seems obvious to me you you could literally show her, while riding the dragon's back, the actual army of the dead to her face and she wouldn't care about it. And I mean I guess that's the point but it just isn't doing anything for me. The only scenes in Kings Landing last episode I enjoyed were the meeting between Tyrion and Jaime, and the scene with Gendry. Everything else it was like ehhhhhh go back to showing the north. Although to piggyback that, the Cersei stuff is a million times more interesting than loving Littlefinger's stuff. I would like Arya to just go ahead and kill him so I don't have to see whatever dumb poo poo he's doing anymore. Does anyone care about Littlefinger's story at this point?
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Aug 14, 2017 21:13
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fruit on the bottom posted:Maybe Rhaegar should have left a loving note I'm the photoshop of Catelyn Stark saying THIS IS EXACTLY WHY YOU SEND OUT WEDDING NOTICES.
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Aug 14, 2017 21:16
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JOHNSON COCKSLAP posted:Littlefinger will betray littlefinger by ordering littlefinger to kill littlefinger. My Lady Sansa, I write to you with shocking news! Littlefinger tried to have me assassinated to make sure I wouldn't discover his plot to kill Littlefinger! Your humble Spymaster, Littlefinger
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Aug 14, 2017 21:21
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Shout out to the dude playing Randall Tarly for being perfectly cast.
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Aug 14, 2017 21:37
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Macaluso posted:It's a big thread so I haven't read through it to see what everyone else's opinion is, but I'm having a REALLY hard time enjoying the scenes with Cersei this season. I love her character but I'm so much more invested in what's happening with the white walkers coming. I'm enjoying seeing all these characters meet up together, I like Dany and all that stuff so I've enjoyed her and Jon Snow interacting, I loved the scene in the Eastwatch jail where all these different characters FINALLY meet and talk. That was a really fun scene. I like the stuff with Sansa in Winterfell, although I wish they kept Bran still being... Bran but with new powers, this new half-dead Bran is annoying. I'm even enjoying the stuff with Sam since it's directly connected to the stuff in the north. Like I dunno it's just you have this big obvious interesting threat that everyone in the north is taking seriously, and even Dany is starting to see that it's something to pay attention to. But I can't get into Cersei's stuff at all because it seems so pointless in the grand scheme of things. She doesn't and won't ever care about the White Walkers. This meeting they want to have with her to make her realize the threat is pointless, it seems obvious to me you you could literally show her, while riding the dragon's back, the actual army of the dead to her face and she wouldn't care about it. And I mean I guess that's the point but it just isn't doing anything for me. The only scenes in Kings Landing last episode I enjoyed were the meeting between Tyrion and Jaime, and the scene with Gendry. Everything else it was like ehhhhhh go back to showing the north. I agree completely. All the KL Lannister stuff has felt tired and pointless to me since Cersei became queen. It's a lot like how I felt about Robb and Catelyn toward the end of their arc (apart from the Red Wedding). I enjoyed their characters and the actors did a good job but every time they showed up I was like "ugh this is pointless get back to the stuff that matters." That's how I feel now but even moreso because the non-Lannister stuff consists of sweet reunions and dragon battles and poo poo. As a character Littlefinger is terrible in this season, but at least he's only in scenes/storylines with the more interesting Starks who are making GBS threads on him constantly. If they were using up screen time with Littlefinger scenes that were in some other location and featured Littlefinger and nobody else I would hate him way more
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Aug 14, 2017 21:45
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CornHolio posted:You really get the sense that Robert was the bad guy all along. I think the theory goes that the GoT we're seeing is the wrong timeline, Rhaegar is The Prince That Was Promised who would have defeated the White Walkers, but Robert went and hosed it all up.
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Aug 14, 2017 21:45
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I did not see that pregnancy thing coming. Last season they were dropping hints all over the place that cersei was going through the change, but that could have been a red herring. My guess is that she is lying to keep Jamie, and when he finds out he strangles her while bleeding to death from a stab wound.
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Aug 14, 2017 21:51
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It's going to be hilarious when we find out The Mountain is the father and her baby is an unholy manifestation of Cthulhu
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Aug 14, 2017 21:57
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littlefinger knows bran's power, right?
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Aug 14, 2017 22:05
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rage-saq posted:Seems more like they eloped and did it quickly because Elia was barren and Rhaegar wanted to bone. He was the crown prince, he didn't need to get married to bone Lyanna. I agree that this is what happened, but in-universe this isn't widely-known.
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Aug 14, 2017 22:13
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Happy Noodle Boy posted:She doesn’t want prisoners that can continue living and hating her and showing everyone else they can just refuse her and go to jail. She wants everyone to follow her. Which makes her worse than those she's conquering. Like Bloom said the real problem is that she's conquering and laying waste while claiming to save the world. If you're gonna be a tyrant at least be honest about it.
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Aug 14, 2017 22:18
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Macaluso posted:It's a big thread so I haven't read through it to see what everyone else's opinion is, but I'm having a REALLY hard time enjoying the scenes with Cersei this season. I love her character but I'm so much more invested in what's happening with the white walkers coming. I'm enjoying seeing all these characters meet up together, I like Dany and all that stuff so I've enjoyed her and Jon Snow interacting, I loved the scene in the Eastwatch jail where all these different characters FINALLY meet and talk. That was a really fun scene. I like the stuff with Sansa in Winterfell, although I wish they kept Bran still being... Bran but with new powers, this new half-dead Bran is annoying. I'm even enjoying the stuff with Sam since it's directly connected to the stuff in the north. Like I dunno it's just you have this big obvious interesting threat that everyone in the north is taking seriously, and even Dany is starting to see that it's something to pay attention to. But I can't get into Cersei's stuff at all because it seems so pointless in the grand scheme of things. She doesn't and won't ever care about the White Walkers. This meeting they want to have with her to make her realize the threat is pointless, it seems obvious to me you you could literally show her, while riding the dragon's back, the actual army of the dead to her face and she wouldn't care about it. And I mean I guess that's the point but it just isn't doing anything for me. The only scenes in Kings Landing last episode I enjoyed were the meeting between Tyrion and Jaime, and the scene with Gendry. Everything else it was like ehhhhhh go back to showing the north. Yeah, Jaime's doing real cool stuff and playing both sides and trying to figure poo poo out, and Cersei is just "drat you should have let me torture that lady before you killed her! Its not really all that fun to watch anymore. And yeah, Littlefinger really seems like he shouldn't even be here anymore. But his cat-and-mouse game with Arya is at least finally something that's pretty interesting. We'll see where this goes from here. I think he's trying to play Arya and Sansa but its going to end up with Littlefinger getting killed. Either Arya will do it or Sansa will get the Vale Lords to do it. But how it plays out will be interesting.
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Aug 14, 2017 22:22
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Zaphod42 posted:Which makes her worse than those she's conquering. Additionally, the fact that she's conquering makes her worse than those she's conquering.
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Aug 14, 2017 22:22
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rage-saq posted:Seems more like they eloped and did it quickly because Elia was barren and Rhaegar wanted to bone. He was the crown prince, he didn't need to get married to bone Lyanna. Elia and Rhaegar had two kids; they were both killed by The Mountain.
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Aug 14, 2017 22:22
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some guy on the bus posted:Additionally, the fact that she's conquering makes her worse than those she's conquering. Right, this is why I don't buy the "Ned Stark executed people too" thing. Those were people who had already sworn loyalty of their own free will, and then betrayed their duty. Ned never said "kneel or die".
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Aug 14, 2017 22:23
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Omne posted:Elia and Rhaegar had two kids; they were both killed by The Mountain. That was after Rhaegar left Elia for Lyanna. The books say that Elia was bedridden for a year after giving birth to Rhaenys and nearly died giving birth to Aegon. The maesters told Rhaegar and Elia that Elia would bear no more children after Aegon was born. Lyanna was younger and more fertile and of hardy from her Stark heritage (even though she dies in childbirth too).
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Aug 14, 2017 22:30
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Red posted:- Jon has a questing party and didn't take a mage Thoros.
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Aug 14, 2017 22:32
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Zaphod42 posted:Right, this is why I don't buy the "Ned Stark executed people too" thing. the targaryens are the rightful rulers of westeros except for a betrayal of duty tho
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Aug 14, 2017 22:38
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esperterra posted:Thoros. thoros is clearly a cleric
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Aug 14, 2017 22:39
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PantsBandit posted:I thought it was a little dumb that Jaime insisted that no army could beat the Dothraki. They routed the Lannister army but that was because they got surprised by a loving mythical creature burning up their formation and letting the cavalry get behind them. They have plenty of weaknesses (arguably more than the Westerosi, since they rely so heavily on horse-combat), it's not like Jaime to be so defeatist. Jaime's description "To them, it wasn't fighting - it was sport." reflects that they're not a traditional army. Beating them isn't really an option - you'd have to wipe them out to get rid of them, and that would cost every Lannister soldier. Jaime is not a fan of the pyrrhic victory at best option. esperterra posted:Thoros. He's a cleric, not a mage.
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Aug 14, 2017 22:39
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teagone posted:I'm assuming Beric's sword is lightbringer. It has to be right? Nah, it's just a sword lit on fire. It was always Thoros' gimmick in battle, and he was said to have gone through a shitload of swords b/c the flames ruin the blade. None of the Lightbringers in the books or show have been legit, just red priest(ess, in Stannis' case) magic and trickery.
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Aug 14, 2017 22:42
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learnincurve posted:I did not see that pregnancy thing coming. Last season they were dropping hints all over the place that cersei was going through the change, but that could have been a red herring. What hints?
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Aug 14, 2017 22:45
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Red posted:He's a cleric, not a mage. It'll depend on if they give him any of the dope fire magic Melisandre had and used during battle in the books. Granted, they cut that from the show and it's likely Thoros' only real power over flame is his sword buff and rezzing. So yeah I guess he's probably a cleric.
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Aug 14, 2017 22:51
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-Blackadder- posted:drat, I really enjoyed this episode, but christ the pacing is so fast now. Also Tyrion's whole "I'll go to Kings Landing and speak to Jaime".. loading screen .. "we've arrived at Kings Landing! Go complete your quest" unintentionally undermines everything else going on. KL isn't close to that place that Dany is at, so doing an instant transition is jarring. It makes you think the two cities are closer together than they are. And gently caress me the tonal shift is so jarring, it definitely doesn't feel like the earlier seasons, even last one. It's going to end up with a laugh track come next season. I also can't believe they went with the "Bronn pulls Jaime out half a mile from the battlefield, conveniently avoiding the next scene" Durzel fucked around with this message at 22:54 on Aug 14, 2017 |
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Aug 14, 2017 22:52
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Cersei is somehow going to join the WWs just because she wants to destroy her enemies even if she's only queen for like 5 extra minutes or maybe she plans to marry the night king and they rule the dead.
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Aug 14, 2017 22:52
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Red posted:What hints? Qyburn kept visiting her for checkups iirc, I think there were some conversations about her moon's blood and moon tea. If that was intended to build to this the timeline is more confusing than ever imho.
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Aug 14, 2017 22:53
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How long was Jon Snow actually on Dragonstone for? Months? The timeline stuff is really dumb as hell. Him and Dany should be best buds after all that time.
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Aug 14, 2017 23:00
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Zaphod42 posted:Right, this is why I don't buy the "Ned Stark executed people too" thing. Also, refusing to kill and torture Lannisters after a battle was over was how the show told us King Robb was good in comparison to Roose Bolton in Season 2.
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Aug 14, 2017 23:00
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