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I normally hear the call-out but I definitely got mollywhopped by the Bionic Arm without warning coming around a corner because he had blindly shot off and the call-out had sounded before I was there
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Aug 14, 2017 13:25
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Am I right in thinking there's no dropoff in impact damage for Doomfist? I generally enjoy playing as and against him but I've had a couple of cases where I've lightly whapped a wall at the end of a punch and have instantly haemorrhaged my remaining HP. It doesn't even need to be steep dropoff, just enough that you're not instagibbing from slowly drifting into a barrier. Unless there already is dropoff and I'm going mad, in which case ignore me. BizarroAzrael posted:Having rocket punched over a Junkrat beartrap, I can say this is not entirely the case, since you get stuck in it instead of destroying it. You can, however, rocket punch a Junkrat wheel, which I think may have been one of the most satisfying moments I've had as that character.
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Aug 14, 2017 13:51
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berenzen posted:How much more does the exceptionally loud HNGN-VWEEEEEE sound need to be? It's one of the loudest callouts in the game aside from some ults. The hit box could use work maybe, but every other projectile hitbox is funky. Maybe reduce the vertical tolerance a bit, but it's not that hard to deal with, just don't engage doomfist in small rooms unless there's lots of corners to LOS him when he fists up. it may just be a case of getting used to the sound tbqh. I still stand by my assertion that it's got much too large of a hitbox.
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Aug 14, 2017 16:16
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They need to change it to reaper's old "repositioning", the only audio queue nobody ever missed hearing.
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Aug 14, 2017 16:18
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Not only is the hitbox huge, but the wall smash mechanic is hosed hardcore. Had plenty of times where death cam showed me well away from any walls or other random chunk of the map and still got one shot. I think the length of his punch is fine but maybe tune a little of the knock back out would be good.
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Aug 14, 2017 16:20
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No Wave posted:They need to change it to reaper's old "repositioning", the only audio queue nobody ever missed hearing. "Reaper-sitioning".
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Aug 14, 2017 16:50
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needknees posted:Not only is the hitbox huge, but the wall smash mechanic is hosed hardcore. Had plenty of times where death cam showed me well away from any walls or other random chunk of the map and still got one shot. I think the length of his punch is fine but maybe tune a little of the knock back out would be good. I agree about the wall smash mechanic being hosed. I've had those same experiences where I get one shot out in the open by a punch and other times I will punch a dude so hard they bounce off the wall and ceiling and keep on trucking. Happened to me yesterday against a Junkrat and a Torb. Hell the Torb took three fully charged punches before going finally going down on the third wall bounce.
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Aug 14, 2017 17:12
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needknees posted:Not only is the hitbox huge, but the wall smash mechanic is hosed hardcore. Had plenty of times where death cam showed me well away from any walls or other random chunk of the map and still got one shot. I think the length of his punch is fine but maybe tune a little of the knock back out would be good. The fist does upwards of 100 damage itself, you probably died from the fist damage and not the impact damage.
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Aug 14, 2017 17:46
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Is fist damage capped at 100 though? I've had a few occasions as Mei popping out of cryostasis with full health, to be 1-shotted by a charging doomfist in an open area. I always thought that 'fully charged fist' was instant death to whatever character. . . . Speaking of which, I was playing as Zen on Lijiang Garden - we had control of the point and the other team was doing a push. Their doomfist ulted and I could tell he was gunning for me (his circle kept following my movements) so right before he slammed into me for the instant kill I popped tanscendance. We decmated him and a pharah that had poked through one of the windows, but right after their zarya gravved when it ended, and sure enough 4 of us got stuck together, followed by a hanzo ult, which took us all out. Going over the replay I was wondering what I could have done better... obviously saving transcendance for the grav+hanzo combo would have been the better choice - but there is no escaping an ulting doomfist as zen if he decided "this guy is going to die". We had no zarya, I was the only healer, we had a dva, reaper, hanzo, pharah and a doomfist of our own. I chalked it up to better ult economy management in the future, but darn if it isn't hard as zen to escape and ulting doomfist if they decide they want you dead there and now...
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Aug 14, 2017 18:22
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Yes fist damage is capped at 100 if there is no wall impact. That means it's 100 if he charges all four bars. Mei Cryo-Freeze does not heal to full health (it heals 150 max) depending on how much damage you took beforehand. There would be no point to the wall impact damage if his fist could kill you by itself. turtlecrunch fucked around with this message at 18:29 on Aug 14, 2017 |
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Aug 14, 2017 18:27
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Guigui posted:Is fist damage capped at 100 though? I've had a few occasions as Mei popping out of cryostasis with full health, to be 1-shotted by a charging doomfist in an open area. I always thought that 'fully charged fist' was instant death to whatever character. To be fair they blew 3 ults to your 1, you should have had the advantage next fight though
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Aug 14, 2017 20:26
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I'm curious: what's the vertical range like on meteor strike's damage? Can Zen hang out next to a ledge until Doomfist confirms the target and then jump down to a lower level to escape the ult? Obviously this wouldn't be a cure-all since there's not always going to be a convenient ledge but it would be handy to know.
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Aug 14, 2017 20:58
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berenzen posted:The fist does upwards of 100 damage itself, you probably died from the fist damage and not the impact damage. He probably got knocked into a small object or uneven half wall or a very shallow angled wall. It can be really hard to tell where Doomfist impacts you. Latency makes it much worse-- where he tags you on his screen can be extremely different from where he appears to tag you. This is the same phenomenon as the "I thought I made it around that cover" that people have grown used to, but it manifests in a different way and I suspect it's made even more awkward by the fact that corpses are not physics synced between players (that's why people teabag near your body, not on it). Bumper Stickup posted:The other day I stomped an enemy team as Zenyatta up until they all switched to dive characters so they could kill me. Suppose Zen is OP too. Zen has the highest winrate of any non torb/sym character. He's probably more of a beneficiary of the meta than being OP. He does have a "one shot" ability, but it's probably the least reliable of all of said abilities. Zen falls into the Soldier: 76 camp, where he's extremely strong but doesn't "feel" overpowered. Discord might actually be overpowered though. Speaking of winrates, Doomfist has settled into a more Genji or Tracer like curve. He is, however, about .75% ahead of Genji at almost every point on that curve and about 4% ahead of Tracer who is actually one of the worst characters in the game at every tier short of professional competitive play. The only characters that are ahead of Doomfist overall are Reinhardt, Mercy, and Zenyatta.
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Aug 14, 2017 23:57
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I'm convinced that Tracer and especially Sombra give average players a lot of ways to feel productive without actually accomplishing anything. Tons of zipping around and hacking and fancy tricks that often don't actually amount to much. Symmetra's the opposite - you can't actually do any damage until you're murdering someone. And Zenyatta's abilities take no time at all to use and are very high impact. Hard to durdle around as Zenyatta.
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Aug 15, 2017 00:28
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Good tracers are either going to showing up on the left side of the killfeed a lot, or only once every 20-30 seconds when you see their name pop up beside a support as they are spawncamping them.
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Aug 15, 2017 00:35
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Might be a dumb question, but where can I see win rates for characters across various rankings?
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Aug 15, 2017 00:36
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berenzen posted:Good tracers are either going to showing up on the left side of the killfeed a lot, or only once every 20-30 seconds when you see their name pop up beside a support as they are spawncamping them. Sometimes this can be very effective though. I've had teams where tracer consistently camped the headers and the rest of the team had terrible awareness. Smoked us. edit: you totally already said that. My bad - half assed reading comprehension on my part. Lowness 72 fucked around with this message at 01:25 on Aug 15, 2017 |
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Aug 15, 2017 00:49
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Like I said, good tracers are either going to be murdering their entire team, or just keeping the supports locked down in spawn. Bad tracers zip around the map and do nothing.
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Aug 15, 2017 00:57
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Spawncamping is a waste of time unless you're wildly better than the other team. Also that Sombra is building one of the best ults in the game, and whether Tracer is getting tons of kills or not frequently depends less on the Tracer and more on how the enemy team responds to her. Tracer is fulfilling a useful function if she forces enemy supports out of hiding and into a huddle with the rest of their team, at which point they're far more vulnerable to tanks and conventional DPS. Symmetra is garbage attached to an okay ult. Tuxedo Catfish fucked around with this message at 01:15 on Aug 15, 2017 |
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Aug 15, 2017 01:13
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No Wave posted:I'm convinced that Tracer and especially Sombra give average players a lot of ways to feel productive without actually accomplishing anything. Tons of zipping around and hacking and fancy tricks that often don't actually amount to much.
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Aug 15, 2017 01:29
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Oh I forgot this is the forum where people think the 61% winrate character is bad.
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Aug 15, 2017 01:54
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winrate is calculated in a really strange way in ow
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Aug 15, 2017 02:01
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j. alfred moonrock posted:Might be a dumb question, but where can I see win rates for characters across various rankings? https://www.overbuff.com/heroes is where I source most of my data from, using comp numbers only because blizzard stopped tracking quickplay losses. Her 61% winrate isn't bad, but it is definitely inflated by being a defensive specialist that is strongest in full hold defenses and frequently switched off in losses.
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Aug 15, 2017 02:01
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Manatee Cannon posted:winrate is calculated in a really strange way in ow The statistic seems to be you get 1 w/l divided by how long you play each hero. On defense you'll only play 100% symm during a victory unless you're a very rare symm one-trick. There's probably a better way to do it but that makes sense.
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Aug 15, 2017 02:07
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Yeah, Torb has a high winrate for a similar reason. To get meaningful stats all games where you start on Symm/Torb would have to be weighted equally and I don't think there's any way to access that data. I think Symmetra does potentially have a place at most levels of play but Winston hardcounters her and is omnipresent so the meta is very unfavourable for her.
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Aug 15, 2017 02:11
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She does more and more unfavourably the higher you go. She just doesn't pose as much of a threat with her piddly damage and exceptionally close range. Every close range fighter will kill her faster than she kills them, and every long range fighter will either kill her before she gets to them or disengage and reposition before she get's a chance to get close.
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Aug 15, 2017 03:47
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i think i've been watching too much moonmoon spamming doomfist all day cause i don't even notice the vWEEEEEEE charge up noise anymore.
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Aug 15, 2017 04:14
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No Wave posted:Ok I looked into this and I think you're right. For what it's worth Jeff Kaplan uses Symmetra's outlier winrate as a go-to example of why "stats don't show you the whole picture," i.e. he's either a moron or he's hoping everyone he's talking to is.
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Aug 15, 2017 05:59
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I've never noticed or cared about the fov before but I really dislike how if you're in the center of your goal in lucioball you can't see your entire goal or even both sides at the same time. I dislike a lot of other things about that mode, but that's probably my biggest complaint. I'm not even sure it's fixable or if it even needs/deserves fixing considering it's a temporary mode and benefits you as much as it does your opponent, but it makes playing goalie kind of frustrating sometimes if you're just starting out. I'm torn between playing the regular mode until I really know what I'm doing and can really do work on a team or just doing all my comp matches asap win or lose and just never touching the mode again. Wrist Watch fucked around with this message at 08:40 on Aug 15, 2017 |
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Aug 15, 2017 07:15
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Just play comp. A few tips. 1. Aim slightly above the ball when clearing it, you'll knock it into the sky and most players can't intercept 2. Don't clear it towards the enemy goal. Clear it to the corners. This works if you're the goalie or a forward. 3. Watch the enemy goalie "boop". Once he does, it's on cooldown and he can't save poo poo. This is when you should pop your ult and tap the ball in.
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Aug 15, 2017 09:38
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All 3 of those tips are good stuff. Also, don't overlook jump pad/wallriding in get into attacking/defending position very quickly. It's the fastest way to get around the field outside of an Ultimate, and basically the speed of sound when your ult is up.
TheRationalRedditor fucked around with this message at 11:01 on Aug 15, 2017 |
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Aug 15, 2017 10:57
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If you find yourself on offense with the ball against no one but the goalie, just wait. 9/10 times he's going to waste his boop or jump nervously at some point, and then you have an easy goal. For the 1/10 when he charges you, punch the ball into the closest wall then get the rebound and boop it over the goalie's head.
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Aug 15, 2017 14:11
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Well there, I went from 2800something to diamond, and had one guy get really angry about me dunking on him. I think that's enough lucioball.
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Aug 15, 2017 16:37
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Straight White Shark posted:I'm curious: what's the vertical range like on meteor strike's damage? Can Zen hang out next to a ledge until Doomfist confirms the target and then jump down to a lower level to escape the ult? Obviously this wouldn't be a cure-all since there's not always going to be a convenient ledge but it would be handy to know. This is actually a really good question given that Zen its nearly always the target confirmed. He can't get away, is normally tucked into some angle where he can gently caress poo poo up for doomfist and that position is more often than not a really handy position for Doomfist to follow up from in the back line.
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Aug 15, 2017 17:37
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It has to be a decent sized drop, but being next to the payload but not on it let a mercy I was trying to kill survive the ult.
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Aug 15, 2017 18:04
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Kai Tave posted:For what it's worth Jeff Kaplan uses Symmetra's outlier winrate as a go-to example of why "stats don't show you the whole picture," i.e. he's either a moron or he's hoping everyone he's talking to is. Jeff's claim seems like a really reasonable statement on a handful of axes. As noted before, Sym's playrate really lends itself to an outlandish winrate, which is a good example of a (relatively obvious) hidden factor. Similarly, Sym gets significantly worse at high tiers of play. See how Bastion and Junkrat are common and quite strong at bronze/silver tiers, but nearly unplayed and very weak at master/GM.  click for giant I made this chart a little while back. It compares each hero's winrate to the average winrate at a given tier. So note that a hero like Genji is 1.5% below average at bronze tier but .6% above average at gold tier, while Junk and Bastion see huge falloffs at high tiers of play. Sym sees a similar falloff in addition to the hugely inflated numbers. (This data is from last patch, so post roadhog nerf but pre zarya/reinhardt buffs and pre doomfist). You do have to look at complicating factors when assessing statistics. Winrate is a good, but noisy stat. It takes a lot of data to stabilize. When you see a character like Mercy with a 51% winrate and a 13% pickrate, that means a lot about her relative strength, since she should appear in enough mirror matches to drive her winrate towards 50%. Symmetra has a 1.7% pickrate, so she's unlikely to appear in a ton of mirror matches, which will skew her winrate even more in either the positive or negative direction. Sample size is also smaller. I'm not sure how large these samples from Overbuff actually are, but the chart pulled data from late June to late July, iirc. All told, taking Sym's 60% winrate and saying that she's broken and needs a nerf is probably a bad use of stats. On the other hand, Zen's +2% delta over mean at almost every single rate is probably something that Blizzard needs to deal with, but since he's a character that feels good to play and not necessarily oppressive to play against it's not a huge hot-button issue-- they can let it work itself out with slower meta shifts rather than a big old nerf.
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Aug 15, 2017 19:53
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The Blue Caboose posted:Jeff's claim seems like a really reasonable statement on a handful of axes. As noted before, Sym's playrate really lends itself to an outlandish winrate, which is a good example of a (relatively obvious) hidden factor. Similarly, Sym gets significantly worse at high tiers of play. See how Bastion and Junkrat are common and quite strong at bronze/silver tiers, but nearly unplayed and very weak at master/GM. I kind of want to disagree with you because I don't like your conclusions, but agree with the hell out of you because the way you drew them is actually spot on.
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Aug 15, 2017 19:56
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Well again it depends on how winrate is calculated. I think the way masteroverwatch does it is to use the reported winrate via ow (maybe I'm wrong), which will give her disproportionate weighting for a win on point A defense vs a loss with switching. Giving every hero used equal credit without weighting for % of time used in match will disfavor meis and Tracers due to last minute stalls/racing to point before losses. I don't know of a correct way to calculate this tbh.
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Aug 15, 2017 20:13
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dogstile posted:Just play comp. A few tips. TheRationalRedditor posted:All 3 of those tips are good stuff. Also, don't overlook jump pad/wallriding in get into attacking/defending position very quickly. It's the fastest way to get around the field outside of an Ultimate, and basically the speed of sound when your ult is up. kumba posted:If you find yourself on offense with the ball against no one but the goalie, just wait. 9/10 times he's going to waste his boop or jump nervously at some point, and then you have an easy goal. Thanks for the tips.  I'll give it another go tonight.
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Aug 15, 2017 22:05
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The problem is that Jeff Kaplan never actually elaborates on any of the data points he uses to bolster whatever dumb decision the balance team made this week. He simply points to Symmetra's disproportionate winrate whenever people claimed that she's not very good (which she increasingly isn't the more people know how to hit a jumping target) like he's going "scoreboard!" without actually addressing any of the salient data or context that produces that statistic in the first place. Back during the triple tank Ana meta days he made another similar post to explain why everybody complaining about the stagnant meta didn't have the whole picture and one of his points was "you might think that there are two Reinhardts in every game but he's actually only the 12th most picked hero in the game." Okay, 12th most picked in which mode? In which brackets? Counting pro play or no? Strangely enough he didn't elaborate on any of this since he had a number he could use to prove that everyone complaining was wrong and he was right and that was good enough. Of course when it comes to people complaining about, say, dumb changes dumpstering a character suddenly instead of numbers it's all about feelings of "unfun" and other similarly nebulous, unprovable concepts.
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Aug 15, 2017 22:09
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