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Just make up your own sexy lady instead of making a lewd spider demon
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Aug 15, 2017 16:47
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R.A. Salvatore is victorious, I see.
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Aug 15, 2017 16:53
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Also, is Shelob a spirit? I thought Ungoliant could be whatever she wanted but Shelob was literally a spider
Smoking Crow fucked around with this message at 16:58 on Aug 15, 2017 |
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Aug 15, 2017 16:54
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Shelob is a monstrous evil spirit and not a spider.
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Aug 15, 2017 16:59
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euphronius posted:Shelob is a monstrous evil spirit and not a spider. yes, but in spider form, with legs, webs, a thick hide etc.
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Aug 15, 2017 17:04
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I am just disappointed that someone said 'wait, spirits can choose to take whichever form serves them best' and then didn't immediately jump to Sexy Gandalf.
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Aug 15, 2017 17:12
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they should call it what it is, an OC that they're slapping the name of an existing character on. It's hard to describe but it's like they're taking the term "female" and conflating it with "woman." (No shocker given the habits of internet libertarians amirite) Shelob, despite being a sentient spider, has never seemed to be a "woman" the way a character like Mrs. Brisby in NIMH is a "woman," -- I suppose to say, a character that is fundamentally human even if in an animal's form for the purpose of telling a story. Shelob is a female spider/evil spirit thing -- in other words, a spider that could possibly make more spiders  whereas Mrs. Brisby being a woman mouse speaks more towards how she initially seems small and lacking in power -- that she is a mouse in the story contributes more to her characterization as an essentially human character, more than her being female contributes to something fundamental about her being literally a mouse.I don't see Shelob being female as adding to a character that is fundamentally human on a thematic level but rather adding the trait "this creepy thing can do creepy things like make more creepy things." Ungoliant and Shelob seemed scary to me because regardless of what form they took, they were fundamentally not human. They don't care about things human (or thematically human) characters care about. You know, that whole lovecraftian "old ones" thing. I guess maybe it's also striking me as odd because if Shelob were mentioned to be a male spider, if they filled the same role in a game like this they'd probably stay a spider. It's like Shelob's being female is seen as notable because male is considered to be default so if something is female it must be some sort of special trait. Shelob's being female adds to her scariness imo mainly for the payoff of the reveal that she is a spider and not a woman. (since we get the whole "gollum's taking them to a woman, OK that might be less scary than a man. lol j/k he's taking them to a giant intelligent spider that he, notable mentally unstable person, talks about as if she were a woman, that's even worse.") Welp, that was way too many words for this subject. Xibanya fucked around with this message at 17:15 on Aug 15, 2017 |
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Aug 15, 2017 17:13
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Ashcans posted:I am just disappointed that someone said 'wait, spirits can choose to take whichever form serves them best' and then didn't immediately jump to Sexy Gandalf. Of the Disrobing of Gandalf and the Sighing of the Elves
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Aug 15, 2017 17:14
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Shelob is probably locked into spider-form tho as she is only the descendent of a maier and not one herself. Even if she could change form there is no way she could take a form beautiful to elves or men.
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Aug 15, 2017 17:14
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Annual Prophet posted:Of the Disrobing of Gandalf and the Sighing of the Elves Waiting for my Istari dating simulator for some sexy Olorin on Galadriel action.
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Aug 15, 2017 17:27
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"Oh whoa, 18 new posts in the Tolkien thread, I wonder what . . . Oh. Yeah. Should not have been surprised."
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Aug 15, 2017 17:37
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I'm bothered less by Sexy Shelob and more by her change in personality. I liked that in the books she couldn't care less about rings or wars or Sauron. Everyone in Middle-earth is (rightly) scared shitless of the Dark Lord she has as a neighbor but he is of absolutely no concern to her. With Durin's Bane and Smaug dead, she's pretty much the last Great Evil of the First Age in Arda. But apparently, her characterization here is that she is sort of a spurned lover and is salty at Sauron for neglecting her or something.
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Aug 15, 2017 17:40
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NikkolasKing posted:I'm bothered less by Sexy Shelob and more by her change in personality. I liked that in the books she couldn't care less about rings or wars or Sauron. Everyone in Middle-earth is (rightly) scared shitless of the Dark Lord she has as a neighbor but he is of absolutely no concern to her. With Durin's Bane and Smaug dead, she's pretty much the last Great Evil of the First Age in Arda. The idea that Shelob requires a male foil, or is herself merely a foil for a male character, is kind of disappointing. Her gender had nothing to do with her independence, so I'm unsure what it adds to suddenly make it a constraint. Maybe I'm looking too much into it.
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Aug 15, 2017 17:46
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You just know that this game just settled the "who would you rather bang, Shelob or Ungoliant?" debate on some Tolkien fan forum.
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Aug 15, 2017 17:47
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Smoking Crow posted:Also, is Shelob a spirit? I thought Ungoliant could be whatever she wanted but Shelob was literally a spider Yeah, this is actually my issue with it, apart from the game dev adopting a REALLY twisted reading of Shelob, he's confusing Shelob and Ungoliant in ways that seem illegitimate. Even the argument that Ungoliant could change forms seems tortured; it's never confirmed that Ungoliant was a Maiar, she's just a big primeval spider. Her origin is about as vague as Tom Bombadil's. There's no reason to believe Shelob is anything but a big spider though. edit: this is the strongest argument yet as to why Tolkien should never have sold the movie rights Hieronymous Alloy fucked around with this message at 18:01 on Aug 15, 2017 |
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Aug 15, 2017 17:48
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Shelob nor Ungoliant could be described reasonably as Maiar, given that the name means "the beautiful". It's quite unclear whether they are Ainu or what. In the early material Ungweliante is just a sobriquet for Moru, the personification of primeval night, which is pretty cool and has some alarming metaphysical consequences. Together with all the other stuff about her ensnaring the Magic Sun, it rather implies a greater and other stature for her than any Ainu that we know of, of which the only real remnant in the published Sil is her cowing of Morgoth in Lammoth. Shelob is explicitly referred to as "an evil thing in spider-form" which, while I wouldn't say it suggests she could take other forms than spiders, definitely suggests that she's not just a regular ole bug. She also has compound eyes and horns. She's obviously a hosed up monster and not just a big spider.
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Aug 15, 2017 18:02
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quote:...and fleeing from the north she went down into Beleriand, and dwelt beneath Ered Gorgoroth, in that dark valley that was after called Nan Dungortheb, the Valley of Dreadful Death, because of the horror she bred there. For other foul creatures of spider form had dwelt there since the days of the delving of Angband, and she mated with them, and devoured them; and even after Ungoliant herself departed, and went whither she would into the forgotten south of the world, her offspring abode there and wove their hideous webs. So even if Ungoliant could change shape, she mated with other spider-things and had exclusively spider-thing offspring, which to me is pretty compelling evidence that Shelob is, in fact, a big spider-thing and not a sexy lady. I can't believe someone even came up with this oh my god. Also that whole "being a mirror to Galadriel" thing sounds like complete bullshit. They only mirror each other in that they're powerful and female. Like, that's it. Someone earlier in the thread pointed out that it's actually Eowyn who is actually a parallel to Galadriel, anyway, since both of them want the exact same thing (agency/autonomy) but go about it in different ways. Shelob's only desire is literally "eat light".
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Aug 15, 2017 18:07
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oh god the fiction for this game is a cold spear in my heartquote:The player continues the story of the ranger Talion and the spirit of the elf lord Celebrimbor, who shares Talion's body, as they forge a new Ring of Power to amass an army to fight against Sauron. someone please take away these people's license to nerd
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Aug 15, 2017 18:08
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edit: Well poo poo someone literally just answered my question as I posted it. Convenient.
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Aug 15, 2017 18:09
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:oh god the fiction for this game is a cold spear in my heart At least they're getting the philosophy correct: power corrupts, etc. I thinknits accidental, though.
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Aug 15, 2017 18:16
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You cannot convince me that a Bamham style brawler grasps Tolkien's philosophy on any level, even the accidental
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Aug 15, 2017 18:19
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:oh god the fiction for this game is a cold spear in my heart  that is, on paper, a seriously hosed premise.
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Aug 15, 2017 18:36
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:oh god the fiction for this game is a cold spear in my heart no. no. no. no. no. no. no.
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Aug 15, 2017 18:40
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Ashcans posted:I am just disappointed that someone said 'wait, spirits can choose to take whichever form serves them best' and then didn't immediately jump to Sexy Gandalf. I put on my robe and wizard hat
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Aug 15, 2017 18:42
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Honestly we should probably just be glad that they didn't decide to through out the entire premise and just make Lord of the Rings: Beach Volleyball
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Aug 15, 2017 18:45
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HIJK posted:no. no. no. no. no. no. no. http://m.gamestop.com/product/ps4/games/middle-earth-shadow-of-war-mithril-edition-only-at-gamestop/143083
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Aug 15, 2017 18:46
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Ashcans posted:Honestly we should probably just be glad that they didn't decide to through out the entire premise and just make Lord of the Rings: Beach Volleyball Given what a sausagefest LOTR is, this could be a great moment of diversity. Have a bunch of beefcakes jump around and stuff.
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Aug 15, 2017 18:59
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Ashcans posted:Honestly we should probably just be glad that they didn't decide to through out the entire premise and just make Lord of the Rings: Beach Volleyball poo poo i'd be on that daay 1
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Aug 15, 2017 19:23
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Well then I'd better get some venture capital and get this ball rolling!
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Aug 15, 2017 19:43
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The name "Shelob" literally loving means "female spider." Cob and lob were archaic names for spiders (thus: cobwebs) and in Hobbit we get to watch Bilbo literally taunting giant spiders using these exact words. Her name is She-Lob. If she's not literally arachnoid in form, why the gently caress are they calling her a spider? If her femininity-- mind you, specifically on an axis of sexual allure-- is immediately apparent, that makes her spider nature into something metaphorical and potentially dynamic, and demands a hell of a lot more characterization and internal monologue than I'm betting a boob NPC is getting in a video game. Also the idea of the Black Widow, the femme fatale spider, is TRITE AS gently caress. e: I want to add that the reversal of apparent vs metaphorical aspects of Shelob ruins an entire layer of horror that's been mentioned in this thread. Sexy Shelob has boobies, but when you think about it, she poisons people! Quelle horreur! Meanwhile Canon Shelob is a loving giant spider oh jesus god, but when you think about it.... she can have babies. A lot of babies. ONE OF THESE SITUATIONS IS NOT SCARY. elise the great fucked around with this message at 19:53 on Aug 15, 2017 |
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Aug 15, 2017 19:50
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Technically, Sexy Shelob is now "canon", for definitions of "canonical" that include "present in an officially licensed product".
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Aug 15, 2017 19:56
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One of my friends just explained that Sexy Shelob makes perfect sense as a horror character if, say, you are very scared of women.
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Aug 15, 2017 19:59
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Technically, Sexy Shelob is now "canon", for definitions of "canonical" that include "present in an officially licensed product". Cool, we can file her right next to Aruman and the Dental Plan of Sauron.
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Aug 15, 2017 20:04
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elise the great posted:One of my friends just explained that Sexy Shelob makes perfect sense as a horror character if, say, you are very scared of women. It is interesting that there is no alluring femme fatale Ayesha type character i can think of in all Tolkien's work. If you're a girl, you're hot or you're a spider.
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Aug 15, 2017 20:08
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Galadriel is basically the mystical element of Ayesha (immortal wise woman in a hidden land with a magic mirror-fountain to show her faraway things) without the jilted lover/sex fiend/horror of female power element.
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Aug 15, 2017 20:14
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chernobyl kinsman posted:i want to gently caress the spider
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Aug 15, 2017 20:23
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maybe she's like lolth: fair face, sexy spidery shape (if you go for the whole multuiple legs, huge thorax thing)
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Aug 15, 2017 20:28
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:oh god the fiction for this game is a cold spear in my heart imagine reading/watching lord of the rings and coming away with the impression that what these people really needed was more rings
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Aug 15, 2017 20:29
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ZeroCount posted:imagine reading/watching lord of the rings and coming away with the impression that what these people really needed was more rings The only way to stop a bad guy with a ring is a good guy with a ring.
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Aug 15, 2017 20:38
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ZeroCount posted:imagine reading/watching lord of the rings and coming away with the impression that what these people really needed was more rings That Boromir guy had the right idea. And seriously, what is up with Aragorn getting to be king just because some fuckwit forever ago was a king? Denethor's house had ruled for so long at this point they should be the kings.
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Aug 15, 2017 20:42
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